Host Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski in the studio to discuss technology, change, and the inevitability of pain. Kevin shares cogent examples (like choosing not to participate in a bad economy through a 500% tip) to illuminate counterintuitive mindset moves to keep builders moving forward. From the struggles that shape resilience to the real story of search data for builders, this episode is a reminder that you don’t have to internalize the valley, or the narrative.Story Time* Jackie – Pain points and growth spurts look the same in retrospect* Kevin – If seemingly constant change has you reaching for more control, choose focus over fakesIn the News* Post to Google Business Profiles: An Untapped Realm in the Building Industry (https://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/posting-to-google-business-profiles-an-untapped-realm-in-the-building-industry/)* October 2025 Monthly Housing Market Trends (https://www.realtor.com/research/october-2025-data/#balance)* Scams at Scale (https://seths.blog/2025/10/scams-at-scale/)* State of Search Q3 2025 (https://doyouconvert.slack.com/files/U015D0VJ7FX/F09Q184J1K9/datos_search_q32025.pdf)

Nick Aufenkamp, founder of DIY Home Buyer Academy, joins Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) to explore how transparency, data, and evolving buyer agency are rewriting the rules of real estate. Kevin and Nick share surprising takes on the current and future state of the Zillow + ChatGPT partnership. From start to finish, this episode is brimming with insights on what happens when buyers start leading the process themselves.AI & the Mirror Effect* Tech is giving us a mirror; turn it into a map* New tools are revealing what buyers actually trust and why* Nick’s own emotional arc with Zillow’s ChatGPT experiment: from frustration to fascinationAgency After the NAR Settlement* The settlement flipped on the lights, yet shadows from the past still linger* Why buyers now want (and expect) more control in every transaction* How builders can back empowered buyers without burning agent bridgesFollow Nick on LinkedIn and Youtube:https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickaufenkamp/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickaufenkamp/)https://www.youtube.com/@DIYHomebuyer (https://www.youtube.com/@DIYHomebuyer)

Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) joins Beth Russell (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/beth-russell/) and Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) to explore what today’s challenges can teach marketers about grit, growth, and grace. From marketing merit badges to limiting factors, they discuss the perspective and strategy builders need to finish the year strong.Special Announcements* Market Proof Marketing Academy 2026 (https://marketing.doyouconvert.com/academy/) is open for registration! A high-energy, hands-on virtual event designed to fast-track marketing mastery for homebuilder marketers. Space is limited - save your spot before it’s gone.Story Time* Beth – Redefining wins beyond sales and measuring momentum that moves the business forward* Jackie – Three quotes to keep every recovering perfectionist grounded and thriving* Julie – Leadership means being the calm in Q4In the News* https://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/the-limiting-factor-to-sales-results/ (https://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/the-limiting-factor-to-sales-results/)* Zillow Pulls Matterport Tours from Listings (Blames CoStar) (https://www.realestatenews.com/2025/10/20/zillow-pulls-matterport-tours-from-listings-blames-costar)* 10 Surprising Takeaways from the Minds of Today’s Homebuyer  (https://www.builderonline.com/builder-100/marketing-sales/10-surprising-takeaways-from-the-minds-of-todays-homebuyers)* Google Officially Shuts Down Privacy Sandbox  (https://searchengineland.com/google-officially-shuts-down-privacy-sandbox-463561)

On this bonus episode, Qadra Evans, Director of Industry & Partner Engagement at Zillow, joins host Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) for a look inside how one of the most-used housing platforms is adjusting to new demands in buyer behavior, builder engagement, and affordability. This conversation breaks down what’s evolving and how builders can interpret the signals.Tools That Reflect the Moment* From dream browsing to financial fit: affordability filters get real* Listings trends are shifting from static to cinematic (and the scroll times prove it)Signals from the Buyer Side* The new new construction buyer: Gen Z (and their parents)* Which considerations are rising fast in buyer decision-making?

Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) joins Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) and Beth Russell (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) for conversations on ChatGPT considerations, Sora’s impact, shutdown shockwaves, and Halloween costumes. Whether you love or hate the rapid pace of change lately, this episode dives into the major shifts shaping the market and more.Special announcementsInterest in the January Market Proof Marketing Academy (https://marketing.doyouconvert.com/academy/) is at an all-time high, with a record number of people on the list. Tickets go live this week, so make sure to grab your spot before it’s full! You can find out at the link above.Key Topics* OpenAI’s newest feature - Is the “app within the app” ahead of its time or an empty gimmick?* A sea of content - Questioning the repercussions of AI’s explosive growth in video content creation* Furloaned - How to prepare for the extended consequences of the current government shutdownListen in and send us your thoughts and questions. 

Fresh from the Summit, Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) sits down with Rachel Spaugh (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/rachel-spaugh/) for Office Hours to debrief on what stood out most. From how AI is reshaping content to how marketers can hand off great ideas to sales without losing trust, this one’s all about clarity, compression, and exerting creative control without chaos.When More Isn’t Better* Faster isn’t smarter when the message is empty* Real examples from Kevin and Rachel reveal why less content often hits harderHolding Tension and Building Trust* Every email is a promise worth keeping* The smartest marketers surface friction early, turning lessons into loyalty

Host Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) joins Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) and Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) to unpack the newest AI experiments, marketing shifts, and growth mindsets shaping 2026 and beyond. From Meta’s surreal new playground to the delicate relationship between builder breakthroughs and removing “limiting factors,” this episode looks at how curiosity and clarity drive progress, even when tech or timelines get in the way. Special AnnouncementsThe next Market Proof Marketing Academy (https://marketing.doyouconvert.com/academy/) is just around the corner, but the waitlist is already almost full! If you want in on this unique opportunity to learn from DYC’s best and brightest - regardless of whether your builder works with Do You Convert - this is your chance. Seize the moment before the last few spots are gone.Key Topics Discussed* Does the future belong to fewer, bigger players?* Love the growth leaps, but remember to value every step* Fever dream frontiers - is Meta wooing creators or consumers?* Weighing the privacy costs of the “customized everything” digital dreamIn the News* Compass to acquire Anywhere, creating world's largest brokerage* Meta "Vibes" is released - will anyone care?* Advertising in 2030

In this solo episode, Kevin Oakley takes you inside the room at a recent ULI panel. Builders, sales leaders, and consultants gathered to debate the toughest questions facing the industry, and Kevin is pulling back the curtain to share exactly what he was asked and how he answered.Here are the five big questions he tackled:* Beyond discounts: what really drives buyer traffic?* Online sales: speed or personalization?* Resale vs. new: who wins when rates drop?* The holy grail: is it possible to achieve volume and margin?* 2026: what’s ahead for builders?Listen in for unfiltered answers that challenge assumptions, spotlight bold strategies, and point to the realities shaping the immediate future of homebuilding.

Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) and Rachel Spaugh (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/rachel-spaugh/) are back in the studio for another round of Office Hours. In this episode, their discussion on AI, uncertainty, and messaging uncovers how to approach everything from fear to facts. Together they break down what to do when you need credibility and what's more powerful than certainty in your messaging right now.Tune in to learn* How your leaders think you’re using AI vs how you should be using it* Why objections aren’t the problem you think they are* Hear Kevin build an end of year campaign theme on the spot

In this episode, host Kevin Oakley is joined by guest Kim Sandoval, Director of Corporate Marketing for Classic Homes. Together they discuss Kim's nonlinear career path in homebuilder marketing, revealing salient reminders not to box in yourself, your career, or your company's growth with narrow thinking. As Kevin and Kim share the gift of retrospect clarity, both of their histories serve as needed reminders that every great success story has periods of expansion and contraction - on multiple levels. Reminder: You + Kim + Chicago = Even More Influential Leadership LessonsListeners attending the 2025 Online Sales and Marketing Summit (https://www.onlinesalessummit.com/) in Chicago in just two short weeks will have the chance to hear from Kim and other leaders live in Beth Russell's panel session, Everything the Light Touches is Yours: Real World Influence from Marketing Leaders. You won't want to miss this chance to hear Kim and her powerhouse peers dive deeper into real wins and lessons learned.Key Topics* Growth is Not Linear - How Kim pivoted from agency-side builder experience, to consulting for builders, before finally going all-in on one culture that captured her heart* Stay the Course - The crucial advice she has for everyone doubting this market right now, pulled straight from her time striking out on her own to serve builders during the 2008 recession* Find Your Fit - Ideas and encouragement on where to find your perfect fit, even if it lands you in an unexpected seat or an entirely different part of the business

In this episode, Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to discuss diagnosing hidden community issues, aligning the whole team around intent, and how to nail messaging and positioning in a shifting market. From long-form articles around behavior data to hot takes on who actually uses Bing, this one is sure to have you thinking about familiar topics in new ways. Story Time* Jackie - The problems that are hidden, but obvious once you see them* Julie - Sometimes the most inspiring thing you can do is ten minutes of nothing* Beth - Ground your playbook in intent, then coordinate the plays from thereIn the News* New Homes are Now Nearly 20k Cheaper Than Existing Homes* The Behavioral Data You Need to Improve Your User's Search Journey* Angry and disappointed, if not surprised: The ad industry reacts to the Google search remedies ruling 

In this episode, Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) joins Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) and Beth Russell (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/beth-russell/) in the studio to reflect on the fine lines between lying and storytelling in marketing, the attribution lies you must know (so you can avoid them), and how creatives in our industry are inspiring the DYC marketing team.Listen closely - this short episode packs in some big questions and even bigger topics in today's ai-driven digital marketing landscape.Story Time* Beth - finding secondhand joy in watching others do creative work* Jackie - building your own breadcrumbs if you're doing something BIG* Kevin - the inherent conflict between truth and storytelling at the heart of being a marketerIn the News* GEO x local SEO: What it means for the future of discovery (https://searchengineland.com/geo-local-seo-future-discovery-460983)

In this episode, Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) and Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) reflect on all things end-of-year mindset, creative messaging, and the joys of not getting eaten by bears. As Jackie and Julie summited the heights of Mt. Rainier with camping gear in tow, marketing inspiration found them where they least expected it. Today, they’re bringing all the fresh insights back to the MPM studio to share with listeners so you can get ahead of your own end-of-year mountains to move.Special AnnouncementsThe Online Sales and Marketing Summit (https://www.onlinesalessummit.com/) is close to full for 2025. If you haven’t gotten your ticket yet, save your seat (and hotel room!) before they’re sold out.Zoom Out* If weekly dips are spooking you, step back.* Step back, but fall forward: the holidays are coming.Take a Hike* Get away from the desk - inspiration is waiting in new places* Love your limits - limitations can produce the best creative workIn the News* Home Purchases Are Getting Canceled at a Record Rates (https://www.redfin.com/news/home-purchase-cancellations-july-2025/)* Move-Now Buyers Are Still Driving Sales. Are You Ready? (https://www.thebuildersdaily.com/move-now-buyers-are-still-driving-sales-are-you-ready/)

In this milestone 400th episode of Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Beth Russell share some provocative takes on what happens when marketing and sales stop collaborating and start competing for credit. When marketing and sales become a marriage on the rocks, someone has to take the first step toward resolution. Learn what every great therapist knows not to do when this happens. From illuminating marriage metaphors to lessons from masterminding pop stars (pssst - we hear there may be a TS12 listening party in Julie's room at Summit?), the crew delves deep into all the ways rethinking your cross-departmental steps can streamline your success.Special AnnouncementsThe Online Sales & Marketing Summit (www.onlinesalessummit.com) registration is closing soon - if it doesn't sell out first! Late-comers, consider this the official last call to secure your ticket. Story Time* Beth - Digging deep on internal attribution to give marketing, online sales, and onsite sales each the credit they're due* Julie - Taking common ideas, but executing on them uncommonly well, is what really moves the needle* Kevin - Building a waterfall of urgency through marketing and sales collaboration In The News* Instagram Adds TikTok Style Repost Feature for Reels (https://mashable.com/article/instagram-reels-repost-feature-like-tiktok)* Market Survey: It's a Whole New Housing Market (https://brightmls.com/article/market-survey-its-a-whole-new-housing-market)* Homebuyer Outlook from Zonda (https://zondahome.com/products/data-intelligence/homebuyer-outlook/?utm_source=builderonline&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=homebuyer_outlook_leads&utm_content=news_article)

In this episode, Rachel returns for another round of Office Hours with Kevin. Together, they unpack one of the most misunderstood, overindexed, and emotionally charged concepts in homebuilder marketing: attribution.Rachel, still relatively new to the industry, brings the curiosity of someone learning in real time, asking the foundational questions many marketers may feel too embarrassed to raise around attribution. Kevin breaks it all down with signature clarity, diving deep into the messy intersection of intent, data privacy, ad platform incentives, and why marketers should stop trying to prove value with “magic wand” numbers.This episode builds on DYC's Attribution is BS article series (https://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/attribution-is-bs/) by Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, and Julie Jarnagin, using real-world analogies to challenge marketers to think smarter and more holistically about the stories they seek and share around data.Attribution Is Breaking* Watered-down signals are the new normal thanks to privacy rules and technology companies fighting against each other* Which came first - the coupon or the craving? Why attribution isn't black and white even when it's "accurate"* How misunderstanding attribution could cost you WAY more than you thinkIntelligence You Can't Simulate* Who - not what - can create real clarity around attribution* AI and attribution: over-simulated and overstated, but most keep falling for it* There is no dashboard for common senseListen now. Email your questions for future episodes of Office Hours to show@doyouconvert.com. (mailto:show@doyouconvert.com.)

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to talk through burnout, delegation, and the invisible work that keeps marketers stuck. This episode isn’t about perfection; it’s about momentum. And it’s a lifeline for anyone trying to hold it all together with too little time and too few resources.Summit Special AnnouncementSummit 2025 (www.onlinesalessummit.com) is almost here, with over 100 builders already sending attendees, many bringing their entire online sales or marketing teams. Registration closes soon, and the best hotel rooms are going fast.Story Time* Beth – Why one marketer’s 10‑hour flyer problem is more common than you think—and how a new rubric helps teams reset without shame.* Jackie – Everyone’s in sales now. A builder’s moment of clarity becomes a team‑wide shift in accountability.* Julie – The Buc‑ee’s effect. What a Texas gas station taught Julie about brand, consistency, and operational brilliance.In the News* Small Team, Big Impact: A Solo Marketer's Guide to Maximizing Outcomes (https://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/small-team-big-impact-a-solo-marketers-guide-to-maximizing-outcomes/)* AI‑Generated Content Doesn’t Hurt Google Rankings (https://ahrefs.com/blog/ai-generated-content-does-not-hurt-your-google-rankings/)* Instagram Content Will Now Be Searchable on Google (https://wersm.com/instagram-content-will-now-be-searchable-on-google/)

Brian Boero, co-founder and CEO of 1000Watt, joins Kevin Oakley for a punchy, high-frequency conversation on how home builders can (and should) learn from the broader real estate world. With decades of insight from both agents and consumers, Brian brings a unique lens to current challenges, and opportunities, for builders navigating 2025’s volatile market.This episode previews Brian’s upcoming talk at the Online Sales & Marketing Summit, pulling from his research, fieldwork, and no-BS branding instincts to spark fresh perspective on how to break from the herd, build trust with brokers, and tap into what today’s buyers actually want.Break the Pattern Before It Breaks You* Builders that mimic competitors become the slowest zebra* A standout product means nothing if no one can tell it’s differentBuyers Want Freedom, Agents Want Help* Gen Z wants a home they can paint and own, not just a good deal* Agents are tired, anxious, and open to new kinds of partnershipsListen now to get Brian’s take on off-MLS strategy, how to craft ads that actually move people, and why “get off my lawn” might be the most powerful copy you write this year.

Kevin Oakley and Jackie Lipinski break down what sets successful builders apart in a shaky market (and why AI won’t save you if your strategy’s unclear). From underutilized CRM systems to the danger of deceptive ad automation, this one’s packed with hard truths and practical insight.Special AnnouncementsSummit is selling out at a rate of 3-4 tickets purchased per day. Don't miss out - save your spot today (https://www.onlinesalessummit.com/)!Market Proof Marketing Academy for Spring 2025 is a wrap! But the waitlist (https://www.marketproofacademy.com/) for next time is officially live; save your spot and be the first to hear when fall dates are announced.Story Time* Jackie – Spending $4K/mo on CRM with no OSC? Let’s talk* Kevin – Some advice is expensive (not in a good way)In the News* Human vs. Machine: Who Should Be Steering Your Paid Ad Campaigns? (https://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/human-vs-machine-paid-ads/)* How Outlier Home Builders Build an Edge, Even in a Slow Market (https://www.thebuildersdaily.com/how-outlier-homebuilders-build-an-edge-even-in-a-slow-market/)* Google Promotes AI Mode on Homepage Doodle (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/01/google-doodle-ai-mode.html)Even in a flat-lead environment, builders are hitting goals; not with silver bullets but with smart, grounded execution. Clarity outperforms complexity, every time.

In this debut installment of Office Hours with Kevin, Rachel Spaugh (DYC’s Marketing & Events Manager) sits down with Kevin Oakley for a grounded-yet-ambitious conversation about what it really takes to grow as a marketer. Drawing from decades of experience, Kevin breaks down the invisible steps between just starting out and true, practiced expertise.This episode unpacks the journey through technical skill-building, data fluency, strategic thinking, and leadership, all with a lens toward avoiding the shortcuts that sabotage long-term success. If you're serious about your craft, this one will feel like a reset button.In This EpisodeThe four stages of development, from “you don’t know what you don’t know” to conscious competence, including:* Why fast-tracking your career might land you face-to-face with Lucifer himself* Tactical ways to stand out and get ahead (hint: daily habits matter)* Signs you've mastered your craft without realizing it* When to shut up, when to risk it, and when to stop acting your age and get curious againThe doors are open. The questions cut deep. The answers? Not for the half-hearted. If you’re in the thick of a marketing career at any stage, this episode will leave you smarter, clearer, and maybe even a little more fired up to level up.Listen now. Bring your questions next time: Office Hours exists to bring you a front-row seat into deeper conversations between a fresh pair of marketing eyes in the homebuilder industry and a seasoned pro serving up career-changing perspectives and playbooks.

No guests. No segments. Just Kevin, a porch mic, and four surf-side stories from Hilton Head to help you reset your marketing instincts.He covers:* What happens when you fight the tide (and lose)* Why your best data might be lying to you* How to spot a shark before the lifeguard does* The missed wave sitting in your CRMThis isn’t a how-to. It’s a how-it-feels. And sometimes that’s the episode you need.Tune in. The ocean doesn’t wait.