After a deal-closing trip to Dallas and Austin, Ian and Wes dive into cultural differences between the US and Europe, the boldness of American founders, and why Austin might be the ultimate tech base for their next wave of growth.
They also reveal Noco’s new Webflow Enterprise Partner status, unpack the playbook to build a $10M ARR AI agent business, and debate whether media should become the business itself.
Chapters:
(0:00) - Intro & why we vanished
(2:00) - Texas trip recap: Dallas, Austin, Shake Shack & ClearBlade
(5:00) - US vs Europe mindset: opportunity vs risk
(10:30) - Coffee, roadside diners, and cultural details
(13:50) - Austin impressions & Waymo weirdness
(19:00) - Comedy clubs, nightlife, and 6th Street observations
(24:00) - Why Austin might be our new business base
(29:00) - Noco’s local targeting strategy explained
(34:00) - Eli5’s bottlenecks and growth constraints
(38:30) - The content pivot & lead magnet strategy
(42:00) - Greg Isenberg’s playbook breakdown
(48:00) - Putting media before services: the hard shift
(53:00) - Why personal brand still matters (but has limits)
(58:00) - The Every.to model and what we’re building
(1:04:00) - Noco updates: Webflow Enterprise Partner status
(1:08:00) - CRO dashboard and automation at Noco
(1:14:00) - GROK, AI companions & MechaHitler mode
(1:22:00) - Final thoughts: summer planning & European maximalism
The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRM...
Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)
Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
From Amsterdam to Austin. From Bitterbal to Brisket. From Seed-stage to Unicorn.In this episode, Ian and Wes dive into what it really takes to scale a modern SaaS agency. They explore why “boring” businesses are winning, how Noco is evolving with CRO subscriptions and funnel services, and why in-person still matters—even in a remote-first world. Plus, an inside look at Eli5’s new AI tools and their upcoming Texas trip.Timestamps
(0:00) Why “boring” businesses might be smarter than SaaS
(5:27) What’s actually boring: screen work vs. building stuff
(9:35) How Noco’s subscriptions are built for compounding value
(14:42) Adding CRO & funnel services: what’s working, what’s next
(22:36) Eli5’s internal lab: AI tools for private equity & beyond
(30:12) Building a public index of top product studios
(33:07) Why we're going to Austin (and why it matters)
(38:45) In-person still beats remote—if you want long-term trust
(40:25) Wrapping up: pendulums, parenthood, and the next episodeThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
What happens when everything is going well, but you still feel off? In this episode, Ian and Wes open with an unfiltered conversation about burnout, energy swings, and the strange self-sabotage that kicks in when business finally gets calm. That spirals into a full teardown of GDPR, where they walk through the real-world consequences of the EU's regulatory overreach and why it did irreversible damage to Europe’s tech scene.
They break down exactly how GDPR slowed down product launches, blocked marketing experiments, and forced startups to spend thousands on compliance infrastructure. It's not a theoretical rant. It’s firsthand experience from founders who’ve lived through it.
Later, they shift gears to talk about X Ads, Grok, and what it will take for AI to finally make media buying efficient. Ian shares insights from a meeting with X’s official audience data partner and why Grok-powered ad targeting could be the next cheat code for performance marketing—if they ever get it right.
One part philosophy, one part EU critique, one part startup therapy session.
Topics Covered
- The psychological tension of being calm during growth
- Why founders self-sabotage when things go too smoothly
- Naval Ravikant, mimetic desire, and shallow decision-making
- How GDPR destroyed startup agility in the EU
- Specific compliance tasks that crushed marketing teams
- Why “easing” GDPR won’t fix anything
- X Ads and why Grok hasn’t delivered yet
- What a Grok-powered media engine could unlock
- Why most ad workflows are still too slow and bloated
- Founders need faster iteration cycles in 2025
Chapters
(0:00) Wes for Government, Opening Banter
(2:21) Burnout During Calm, When Things Go Too Well
(7:06) Do You Still Like What You're Doing
(13:01) Naval, Mimetic Drift, and Life Choices
(19:03) Why Wes Launched a Holdco
(22:57) Praise for Bureaucracy (Not Really)
(24:02) GDPR Breakdown, What Really Happened in 2018
(38:03) Compliance Hell, What Marketing Teams Actually Faced
(43:02) X Ads, Grok, and the AI Targeting Dream
(48:04) Founders vs Agencies, Speed vs Bureaucracy
(54:02) Engagement Bait and the Broken X Algorithm
(58:01) Still Value on X, but Time for a Fix
The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)
Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
Ian and Wes take you on a wild ride through Episode 19, unpacking pyramid power plant theories with nods to Graham Hancock, debating Bob Lazar’s alien whistleblowing saga, and wrestling with Europe’s Tesla vandalism wave. The stakes get real as Wes wraps Eli5’s intense hiring sprint, seven new hires streamlined with lessons for the future, while Ian revels in Noco’s overflowing pipeline, plotting faster marketing experiments with X’s Grok-powered ads. From Edge Impulse’s Qualcomm coup to the rise of Chinese car tech, hello BYD suspension, they explore growth, innovation, and legacy. Then it’s personal. Wes pitches “reality transurfing” to ditch futile rants, Ian confesses his fear of failure, and a Toyota Land Cruiser dream ties it to family roots.Chapters(0:00) - Intro and Pyramid Theories(4:40) - Alternative Tech and Lost Knowledge(7:00) - Aliens and Bob Lazar’s Story(10:40) - Geo Scotty and Classic Beauty(12:49) - Eli5 Hiring Update(16:20) - Recruitment Lessons and Tools(21:40) - Onboarding New Hires at Eli5(26:48) - Noco’s Pipeline and Growth(32:40) - Noco’s Challenges and Experimentation(38:20) - X Ads and Marketing Speed(41:40) - Eli5’s Client Diversity and Focus(46:25) - Edge Impulse and Qualcomm Deal(51:00) - Serving Clients at Scale(55:00) - Decel Mindsets and Personal Traits(1:04:20) - Tesla Vandalism and Chinese Cars(1:18:20) - Toyota Land Cruiser DreamsThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode, we dive into everything from scaling a business without killing the fun to automating workflows and filtering out 806 applicants. Ian breaks down Noco’s rapidly growing sales pipeline and how their flexible subscription model is finally clicking with customers. Wes shares his philosophy on keeping Eli5 lean, solving client problems that spawn new business ideas, and the painful process of hiring top-tier talent.We also discuss the AI-powered creative workflow tool Flora, how to properly validate a business idea, and why Stripe subscriptions don’t work for high-ticket B2B SaaS. Oh, and we kick things off with JD Vance memes and a nostalgic Mad Men rewatch.Timestamps:(0:00) Intro & JD Vance Memes(1:06) Rewatching Mad Men & Coca-Cola Ad(2:41) Noco Pipeline Filling Up(4:10) Noco’s New Subscription Model Clicks(7:05) Scaling Up vs. Keeping it Fun(10:07) Eli5 as an Idea Engine(14:00) Relaunching Paradigm for Product Design as a Service(19:50) How to Validate a Business Idea(25:00) Wes’s Recruitment Grind(28:09) Noco Hiring a Banger Designer(30:07) Automation at Noco(32:30) The Challenges of Automating Billing(35:00) AI-Powered Creative Workflows (Flora)(38:12) Wrapping UpThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, we go deep on:
The software developer job collapse – AI is eating junior developer roles. Is the middle-class engineer disappearing?
AI-powered coding in Webflow and beyond – How Webflow Apps, GSAP, and AI-driven coding tools are changing the game.
Make vs. Zapier and the automation gap – Why most businesses aren't even ready for AI workflows.
Escaping Amsterdam – Why Ian is ditching city life, exploring Starlink internet, and avoiding overpriced restaurants.
Europe’s economic mess and JD Vance’s speech – Is EU leadership completely disconnected from reality?
CRO, efficiency, and scaling Noco – The latest on Noco’s CRO push, customer insights, and why simple beats complex.
Chapters
(49:30) Wrapping up – recruiter culture and closing thoughts
The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes break down:Hiring in 2025 – Why the job market has changed, how AI is reshaping hiring, and why some candidates still show up unprepared.Elon Musk vs. Sam Altman – The OpenAI lawsuit, the drama behind its transition from nonprofit to for-profit, and the bigger picture in the AI war.Why UX wins the AI race – ChatGPT, Grok, Claude… which one is actually winning? Ian explains why UX plays a bigger role than most people think.USAID’s unhinged capital allocation – From funding LGBTQ festivals abroad to bizarre health initiatives, how government spending spirals into absurdity.The reality of government corruption – Pelosi’s insane net worth, politicians trading stocks, and how taxpayer money keeps disappearing.Can Europe have a “Doge” moment? – Will someone in the EU expose government inefficiencies the way Elon is doing in the U.S.?The pendulum swing in media control – Will mainstream media regain control of the narrative, or are we entering a new era of decentralized information?This episode is a mix of AI, politics, business, and a healthy dose of skepticism.Timestamps:(0:00) Intro & Valentine's Day discussion(3:20) Hiring challenges & workplace mentality(7:40) Job market shifts & the AI factor(12:20) Why work at Eli5? Company culture & roles(13:08) Best beat ever? Ian’s tweet & personal news(18:21) Elon Musk vs. Sam Altman feud(24:00) The AI race: competition & UX matters(27:00) X.AI employee quits over Grok 3 leak(31:45) The USAID spending scandal(36:40) Clown world & government corruption(40:00) Can Europe have its own “Doge” moment?(41:45) Media control & information monopoly(44:50) The pendulum swing: where are we headed?(47:20) Wrap-up & sign-offThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes tackle the hiring struggle in design, new AI-powered updates in Webflow, and a regulation allowing insect protein in food. A mix of practical insights, rants, and some well-earned laughs:The Designer Hiring Crisis – Why is it so hard to find designers with good taste? Ian and Wes discuss the massive gap between applications and actual talent.AI in Design and Development – Webflow’s new Figma-to-Webflow update and how it changes handovers for design teams.The Power of Personal Branding in Hiring– Why building an audience is the best long-term hiring strategy.Bug Protein in Your Food? – A new EU regulation allows mealworms in everyday food. Ian and Wes aren’t having it.Building for the Future – The Noco team continues to push CRO-driven web development, and Wes reflects on Eli5’s hiring spree.
A high-energy episode mixing frustration, strategy, and a touch of conspiracy.Timestamps:(0:00) Intro & Banter (2:00) Hiring Designers & The Struggle (9:00) What Makes a Great Designer? (Can Taste Be Trained?) (15:00) The Power of Personal Branding in Recruiting (24:20) The EU’s Food Regulation (Mealworms in Food) (29:00) Noco’s CRO Strategy & Productized Growth (33:00) Webflow’s AI-Powered Figma Integration (37:00) Hackathons, AI Tools & The Future of No-Code (40:00) Closing Thoughts & Outro The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes cover a mix of personal milestones, business insights, and AI-driven industry shifts:
Fatherhood and Life Changes – Ian shares the news of becoming a dad, and Wes reflects on his own journey as a parent, including the unexpected realities of raising a child.
DeepSeek AI and OpenAI’s Competition – A discussion on DeepSeek’s rise, its cost advantages, and whether it truly threatens AI incumbents like OpenAI
The Future of Compliance & AI Automation – Wes breaks down how AI is set to transform compliance-heavy industries, reducing inefficiencies and eliminating outdated workflows.
The YC 2025 Startup List – Ian and Wes review Y Combinator’s latest funding priorities, including AI-driven automation and vertical SaaS, debating whether these trends are actually groundbreaking.
AI Agents in Recruiting – The duo discusses Bordy, an AI-driven recruiter, and the inevitable automation of human-first industries.
Wes’ Obsessive Optimization Phase – Another episode, another diet and lifestyle overhaul. Wes explains his latest extreme self-improvement regimen, Ian roasts him for it, and they both agree that placebo might be 90% of the battle.
With humor, sharp analysis, and deep reflections, this episode covers some of the most relevant shifts in tech, business, and life—while reminding us all that Wes will never stop finding the ultimate way to live.
Timestamps:
(0:00) Intro and banter
(2:14) Ian announces he's becoming a dad
(8:37) Parenting reflections and dad jokes
(14:52) Wes’ latest life and diet optimization obsession
(22:25) DeepSeek AI and the competition with OpenAI
(32:18) AI's impact on compliance and regulatory automation
(42:47) The rise of AI recruiters and automated hiring
(50:33) Breaking down YC’s 2025 startup trends
(55:46) Closing reflections
The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2 Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes navigate a mix of timely and timeless topics: - The Trump Inauguration: Reflections on policy shifts, executive orders, and their broader implications for society. - The rise of vertical AI: How hyper-specialized tools are reshaping B2B SaaS, streamlining industries with AI-driven innovation. - Crypto’s clown show: From Bitcoin’s original ethos to today’s meme coin culture, they explore the tech’s decline into financial nihilism and its potential future. - Accelerationism vs. Decelerationism: A spirited, humorous debate on what drives progress and what holds us back. - Personal insights: Agency life, writing processes, and balancing creativity with execution. Blending sharp analysis, humor, and actionable takeaways, this episode offers a candid look at the forces shaping tech, business, and culture. Timestamps: (0:00) Intro and banter (5:00) Trump inauguration and executive orders (12:00) Vertical AI’s impact on SaaS (28:00) Crypto’s clown show: Ethos vs. chaos (42:00) Accelerationism vs. Decelerationism: A fun debate (1:02:00) Agency life, branding, and workflows (1:17:00) Closing thoughts The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2 Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In episode 12 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes dive deep into the nuances of modern agencies, AI-driven workflows, and what it takes to create scalable, authentic content strategies. Reflecting on the constant balancing act between short-term wins and long-term growth, they explore how the pendulum of freedom, innovation, and authenticity is shaping the business landscape. Key topics include: - The rise of AI agents in agencies and the shift to scalable service models. - The pros and cons of delegating tasks vs. maintaining direct control. - How personal and company-wide content strategies drive growth. - A candid discussion on outreach, from poorly targeted emails to Lindy AI tools. - Reflections on the legacy of the Dutch East India Company as a lens for modern innovation.
Tune in to hear unfiltered thoughts, practical insights, and the occasional synthwave soundtrack recommendation. Chapters: (0:00) Intro and flu recovery struggles (2:30) Staying hands-on in design and delegation (6:30) Reflecting on Mark Zuckerberg's pivot and the pendulum of free speech (10:50) Building funnels and refining Noco's content strategy (15:40) Using AI tools to streamline podcast and content production (21:00) Lindy AI: Exploring workflows and outreach automation (27:00) Recently funded startups and tailored outreach (33:30) Are agencies evolving into AI-driven enterprises? (40:00) AI in SMEs: Opportunities for automation (48:30) Cultural discussions and balancing innovation with authenticity (1:02:00) Wrapping up: Synthwave, Dutch history, and personal reflections The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2 Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In episode 11 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes ring in 2025 with an upgraded studio setup and reflections on where technology, creativity, and business are headed. From the shifting role of AI to the evolving importance of taste, intuition, and resilience, this episode is packed with insights for anyone navigating the intersection of tech and human ingenuity. Key topics include: (0:00) Intro and new podcast setup (3:00) Reflections on the WORK IN PROGRESS journey so far (10:00) AI’s influence on personal brands and authenticity (19:30) Webflow vs. Framer: balancing agnosticism and branding (31:00) Greg Eisenberg’s 2025 AI predictions (39:30) How aesthetics and architecture impact our consciousness (51:00) Solo entrepreneurs using AI agents to scale (55:00) System design and product sense in the AI era (56:30) Closing thoughts and Dutch Accelerationism (dutch/acc) playlist The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2 Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this milestone 10th episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman reflect on a transformative 2024 and lay the groundwork for an ambitious 2025. From navigating personal losses to reshaping business strategies, this conversation explores the lessons, challenges, and opportunities that defined the past year and what lies ahead. Highlights include: - The importance of resilience in business and life. - Reflections on the European tech ecosystem versus the U.S. landscape. - The shift towards human authenticity in the age of AI. - Why diversifying operations in the U.S. is a strategic move for 2025. This episode offers an honest look at the ups and downs of entrepreneurship while addressing the broader social and economic landscape. (0:00) Intro & Reflecting on 2024 (5:00) Life Changes and Personal Growth (12:00) Lessons from Losing Major Clients (18:00) Building Resilience Through Hardships (25:00) Leveraging Predictability in Business (32:00) Why U.S. Companies Value Noco’s Work (40:00) Tech Optimism in the U.S. vs. Degrowth in Europe (50:00) Addressing Regulatory Challenges in Europe (1:00:00) Looking Ahead to 2025 The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2 Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes navigate the highs and lows of running productized agencies and building systems that never skip a beat. From dissecting LinkedIn's "gray mass of mediocrity" to unveiling Noco's refined 2025 service offerings, the conversation touches on authenticity, content strategy, and the delicate balance between grind culture and scaling sustainably. This episode also covers: - The fatigue of fragmented work and the power of weekly routines. - Exploring parallels between B2B SaaS startups and productized agencies. - How Noco is doubling down on value with three core service pillars: Build, Optimize, Amplify. - LinkedIn rants and the future of digital authenticity in a post-AI world. A must-listen for founders, agency leaders, and anyone obsessed with systemized growth and creative performance. Chapters: (0:00) Intro: Year-End Sprints & Business Updates
(2:30) Reflections on 2023: Challenges & Lessons Learned
(6:00) Content Systems: Building Consistency & Avoiding Writer’s Block
(9:30) The Power of Never Skipping a Beat
(12:00) Burnout & The Importance of Systems for Focus
(14:40) The Role of Creativity & Scheduling Time to Think
(17:00) ELI5’s Focus on Productivity Tools & AI Solutions
(20:30) Problem-Solving as the Key to New Opportunities
(23:50) Personal Branding: Finding Your Voice in a Crowded Space
(26:40) The Rise of Authentic Content in the AI Era
(30:10) Physical Events & The Future of Authentic Media
(35:00) Noco’s Value Delivery Framework & Service Offerings for 2025
(41:30) Building, Optimizing, Amplifying: Noco’s New Approach
(46:00) Scaling Productized Services for Creativity & Efficiency
(52:00) LinkedIn’s Flaws & The Need for Recruitment Disruption
(1:08:00) Closing Thoughts: LinkedIn Cringe & Holiday Wishes The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2 Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes dive into a rollercoaster of topics ranging from the challenges of running a direct-to-consumer (DTC) brand to the systemic issues within Europe's tech landscape. Wes opens up about the ups and downs of his DTC furniture brand, Selé, revealing valuable lessons on delegation, operations, and branding. The conversation then shifts to a candid critique of Europe's innovation stagnation, comparing it to the accelerating tech dynamism in the U.S.
This episode also touches on:
A must-listen for entrepreneurs, technophiles, and anyone curious about the intersection of business, technology, and culture.
(0:00) Intro & Wes’s Morning Routine
(2:30) The Story Behind Selé: A DTC Furniture Brand
(8:00) Lessons Learned: Delegating Too Early
(12:30) Operational Challenges in DTC
(18:00) Finding the Right Production Partner
(22:00) Marketing Strategies for DTC Brands
(27:00) Tech & Branding: OpenAI vs. Claude
(35:00) Why Europe’s Tech Sector Is Falling Behind
(43:00) The Future of Europe’s Innovation Landscape
(50:00) Balancing Remote Work and Productivity
(1:02:00) Reflecting on Leadership in Productized Agencies
(1:04:00) Closing Thoughts: Lessons for Entrepreneurs
The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRM... Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In Episode #7 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes dive into the emerging world of AI agents, their potential to revolutionize industries, and how they’re tinkering with tools like Lindy AI. They discuss practical applications, challenges, and exciting prospects for the future of automation and efficiency in business.
Chapters:
(0:00) Intro and Setting the Stage
(2:15) What Are AI Agents?
(6:40) Vertical AI vs. Lindy AI
(11:20) AI’s Impact on Workflow Automation
(16:35) Exploring B2B SaaS Opportunities with AI
(20:50) Recruitment and Marketing Automation
(26:15) The Role of AI in Compliance and Content Creation
(31:30) Real-World Use Cases and YC Companies Leading the Way
(37:00) Future Trends and Risks with AI Agents
(42:45) Closing Thoughts and What’s Next for AI
The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)
Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian Piepenbrock and Jelle Bot explore the transformative future of no-code tools, the challenges of minimalist design in B2B SaaS, and how agencies can stay ahead in a fast-evolving creative landscape. They discuss Webflow vs. Framer, the role of AI in shaping websites, and why emotional, maximalist design may be the key to standing out in a saturated market. If you're passionate about design, creativity, and staying ahead in SaaS, this episode is for you. Timestamps: (0:00) - Introduction: Welcoming Jelle and reflecting on WORK IN PROGRESS so far (2:10) - The no-code revolution: Why it matters for B2B SaaS (10:00) - Challenges in minimalist design: Is it time for a new aesthetic? (17:30) - Emotional design and the rise of maximalism (24:00) - AI in creative workflows: Game-changer or overhyped? (30:15) - Webflow vs. Framer: Tools, features, and the battle for market share (40:00) - Webflow’s new features: Worth the hype? (47:00) - How agencies should prepare for future design trends (52:30) - Design engineers: Bridging the gap between creativity and code (58:00) - Attracting and retaining top design talent The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2 Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In Episode 5 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes dive into:
The duo also shares insights into sleep trackers, including Wes’s personal journey with Whoop, and why sleep data can both help and harm. They explore how to optimize sleep for better health and productivity.
Chapters:
(0:00) - Positive affirmations and momentum in entrepreneurship
(7:00) - Sleep trackers: Anxiety booster or productivity tool?
(18:00) - European tech landscape: Challenges and opportunities
(22:00) - Hampton Founders community and its European potential
(27:00) - Marc Andreessen on Joe Rogan: Overton Window shifts
(33:00) - The reality of censorship and debanking in tech
(41:00) - Late civilization vibes: Lessons from history
(48:00) - Lean governments and private-sector efficiency
(55:00) - Competition and authenticity: Lessons from Peter Thiel and Naval Ravikant
The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2 Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, we explore the grind of building businesses with some practical insights and unfiltered takes. From why front-loading energy and pain is essential for success, to the controversial (if not disastrous) Jaguar rebrand, we cover the highs, lows, and lessons learned. We also dive into the game-changing potential of AI-powered video localization and how it could reshape content distribution. Plus, we share thoughts on the startup grind, ads vs. organic growth, and more. Intro & Branding Blunders
00:00 Ian’s boxing mishap and the Jaguar rebranding controversy 05:30 Classic cars vs. Jaguar’s modern misstep: The backlash and cultural tone-deafness 10:00 Porsche’s successful nostalgic campaign vs. Jaguar’s failure AI Localization & Video Content
14:00 YouTube’s AI localization: What it means for creators and brands 20:00 Global opportunities for multilingual content: Use cases in B2B SaaS 24:00 Opening new talent pools with seamless video and language tools The Concept of Front-Loading Energy
29:00 Front-loaded energy: Building momentum in daily life and business 35:00 Avoiding long-term inefficiencies by proactive preparation 40:00 Sprinting vs. consistent effort: How Ian and Wes handle momentum at NOCO Ads vs. Organic Growth
49:00 Balancing ads and organic growth in scaling businesses 55:00 Why organic proves value and ads amplify success Closing Reflections
01:02:00 Podcasting as a learning tool and refining ideas through conversations The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
In this episode of the WORK IN PROGRESS podcast, we dive into the grit and grind of building businesses, with topics ranging from startup lessons and iterative growth to the inefficiencies of corporate bureaucracy. We also tackle the stark contrasts between the US and EU entrepreneurial climates, highlight Pieter Levels’ critiques of European policies, and debate Elon Musk’s push for governmental efficiency. Plus, some lighthearted takes on Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson and nostalgic TV shows to keep things fresh.
Timestamps:
Intro & Catch-Up
00:00 - Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson: Ian’s take on the fight, Netflix streaming issues, and Tyson nostalgia.
05:00 - Nostalgic TV Shows: Discussing Lost, Breaking Bad, and other iconic series.
Key Topics
10:30 - Y Combinator Pocket Guide: Startup lessons like “Launch Now” and “Do Things That Don’t Scale” with reflections on the “Decel Mindset.”
19:00 - Iteration vs. Inefficiency: Piloting new services and learning through non-scalable processes.
24:00 - Broken Startups: Embracing chaos as a natural part of growth.
Corporate Challenges
27:30 - Avoid Long Corporate Deals: How bureaucracy kills energy compared to working with leaner, smaller clients.
32:00 - Skip Unnecessary Conferences: Inefficiencies of traditional networking versus better alternatives.
34:00 - One Problem at a Time: Lessons in focus and managing multiple challenges effectively.
Europe vs. US Entrepreneurship
38:00 - EU’s Bureaucratic Struggles: Comparing innovation climates in Europe vs. the US, focusing on regulation and taxes.
49:00 - DOGE (Department of Government Efficiency): Elon Musk’s push to address government waste, with parallels to EU inefficiencies.
55:00 - Pieter Levels’ Critiques: Examining EU policies on taxes, labor laws, and potential solutions like streamlined EU business frameworks.
If you’re a founder, creator, or just someone obsessed with learning, this is for you. Hit subscribe for raw, unfiltered conversations about the real journey of entrepreneurship.
