What happens when everything is going well, but you still feel off? In this episode, Ian and Wes open with an unfiltered conversation about burnout, energy swings, and the strange self-sabotage that kicks in when business finally gets calm. That spirals into a full teardown of GDPR, where they walk through the real-world consequences of the EU's regulatory overreach and why it did irreversible damage to Europe’s tech scene.
They break down exactly how GDPR slowed down product launches, blocked marketing experiments, and forced startups to spend thousands on compliance infrastructure. It's not a theoretical rant. It’s firsthand experience from founders who’ve lived through it.
Later, they shift gears to talk about X Ads, Grok, and what it will take for AI to finally make media buying efficient. Ian shares insights from a meeting with X’s official audience data partner and why Grok-powered ad targeting could be the next cheat code for performance marketing—if they ever get it right.
One part philosophy, one part EU critique, one part startup therapy session.
Topics Covered
- The psychological tension of being calm during growth
- Why founders self-sabotage when things go too smoothly
- Naval Ravikant, mimetic desire, and shallow decision-making
- How GDPR destroyed startup agility in the EU
- Specific compliance tasks that crushed marketing teams
- Why “easing” GDPR won’t fix anything
- X Ads and why Grok hasn’t delivered yet
- What a Grok-powered media engine could unlock
- Why most ad workflows are still too slow and bloated
- Founders need faster iteration cycles in 2025
Chapters
(0:00) Wes for Government, Opening Banter
(2:21) Burnout During Calm, When Things Go Too Well
(7:06) Do You Still Like What You're Doing
(13:01) Naval, Mimetic Drift, and Life Choices
(19:03) Why Wes Launched a Holdco
(22:57) Praise for Bureaucracy (Not Really)
(24:02) GDPR Breakdown, What Really Happened in 2018
(38:03) Compliance Hell, What Marketing Teams Actually Faced
(43:02) X Ads, Grok, and the AI Targeting Dream
(48:04) Founders vs Agencies, Speed vs Bureaucracy
(54:02) Engagement Bait and the Broken X Algorithm
(58:01) Still Value on X, but Time for a Fix
The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
Wes: @wesbotman (https://x.com/wesbotman)
Ian: @lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)
