I do an "ask me anything" style interview to ask Ben questions about his career and journey at Navattic.

We reflect on hosting this podcast, changing from an IC to a manager, and how our approach to sales and marketing has changed over the past few years.

And share our favorite drinks from the season.

I drink rosé 🍷

Ben drinks Miller Lite 🍺

Our advisor and product marketing expert, Yi Lin, interviews Ben to explore the relationship between product marketing and sales.

She asks about sales reps' day-to-day, what makes top performers stand out, and how product marketers can support sales beyond decks. We also talk about why product marketers struggle more with sales (apparently more than product teams), collateral for sales reps, and how product marketers can build relationships with high-performing reps.

Yi Lin and I drink water

Ben drinks Coors Banquet 🍺

Ben does an "ask me anything" style interview to ask me questions he's always wanted to know about marketing. We talk about what makes each marketing role hard, debate whether sales or marketing should own outbound, and share our thoughts on personal LinkedIn branding for founders and sales reps.

Ben and I were being uncreative and both just drank water

Ben and I discuss our recent sales kickoff (SKO) in Dallas and Natalie's transition to a product marketing role at Navattic. We cover why you should bring marketing leadership to SKOs. My presentation about my role leading product marketing role at the SKO and why the company decided to make this transition at this stage of growth. Plus Ben's experience planning and executing his first full SKO, why SKOs are so important for sales teams, and how to manage energy levels at company events.

I drink a botanical tea-based liquor 🍵

Ben drinks red wine 🍷

Ben Pearson and I chat about how we built a sales process focused on buyer experience at Navattic. I interview Ben on how he developed his sales philosophy when he joined the company and the balance between creating a winning culture and doing what is best for prospects.

We also go into why we don't use traditional sales methodologies, how we hire for autonomy and high standards, and why Ben is obsessed with discovery.

Ben drinks red wine 🍷

I drink rosé 🍷

Ben Pearson and I kick off 2025 by chatting about our predictions and observations for B2B buying, marketing, and sales this year.

We discuss topics like LinkedIn's evolution, the future of PLG motions (expanding beyond just free trials), how marketing may change with the rise of specialized freelancers, customers getting involved earlier in the buyer journey, and if competitors will ever join together to help educate the market.

Ben drinks an On The Rocks premixed cocktail (Old Fashioned) 🥃

I drink tea 🫖

Ben and I reflect on our first customer event in New York City (if you didn't listen to our last episode we talked about planning the event in that one). We discuss what made it different from typical B2B conferences like an intimate venue, not too packed agenda, and customer-only attendees.

We share the event's impact, like positive feedback from attendees and how that helped inform our 2025 events strategy.

I drink honey Jack whiskey on the rocks 🥃

Ben drinks Coors Banquet beer 🍺

Ben and I discuss planning and hosting our upcoming first-ever customer event for Navattic in New York City. We chat about how we got early customer feedback to help set the event agenda and how we made it different than most user conferences.

I talk about practicing throwing smaller events leading up to it and lessons learned during previous events.

And Ben asks how marketers show ROI for customer events like this.

I drink tea 🍵

Ben drinks red wine 🍷

Ben Pearson and I discuss our experience hiring at startups and our stories of how we got hired at Navattic.

We cover why you want to love the product/problem at a startup, approaching startups proactively, and how to show passion and adaptability in the hiring process.

We also get into the differences between hiring for sales and marketing roles. And try to offer advice for both job seekers and hiring managers.

I drink orange wine 🍊🍷

Ben drinks Guinness 🍺

One month after our freemium launch, Ben Pearson and I deep dive into the highs and lows of the launch.

We discuss everything from celebrating the small wins, challenges when managing a team transitioning to PLG, selling experimentation, and adapting to a new unknown GTM motion.

Plus how we both felt emotionally pre and post-launch week and how we handled the excitement and stress.

I drink tea 🫖 & Ben drinks water 💧

In our season three premiere we announce that we launched a Product-Led Growth (PLG) motion at Navattic.

We discuss our initial reservations, what we've learned, and the freakouts we both had while introducing a freemium plan. We also talk about how to align the sales team and leadership to adapt to selling to PQLs (product-qualified leads).

Plus why we adopted PLG (even though we had a successful sales motion), potential long-term growth from PLG, and anxiety during the adjustment period.

I drink Catch & Release wine 🍷 & Ben drinks Coors Light 🍻

In this bonus episode of the Revenue on the Rocks - we collaborated with the We're Not Marketers team to discuss the disconnect between sales and product marketers.

Specifically, we cover:

1) Why salespeople think they understand the customer better

2) How win-loss research can fill in gaps from loss reasons

3) Marketing and sales not understanding each other's metrics or daily pressures

4) How founders or VCs can make it difficult to align on one ICP

5) Why marketers should shadow sales calls to gain firsthand experience

6) Ways to build a rapport with sales as a marketer

Eric drinks a mezcal on the rocks 🥃

Zach drinks a Coors Light 🍺

Gab drinks a homemade gin tonic with maple syrup 🍸

Ben drinks a Coors Banquet 🍺

I drink canned wine 🍷

In the last episode of Season 2 - we discuss the relationship between go-to-market and product with our co-founder and Head of Product at Navattic, Randy Frank.

Specifically, we cover:

1) How to identify when a product role is needed

2) Ways to align on a product roadmap and not get distracted

3) Why you need to filter customer feedback to prioritize valuable features

4) Balancing innovative features and competitive offerings

5) Ways to communicate product updates to go-to-market teams

6) How to manage expectations for product launch timelines and scope

Randy drinks a local DC lager 🍻

I drink a negroni 🥃

Ben drinks a Coors Banquet 🍻

In Episode 14 of Season 2 - after throwing our first-ever CMO dinner we share the behind-the-scenes of what goes into planning a B2B dinner. And we bring on our co-sponsor and events expert Regina Magaril from Mutiny to rehash learnings from the events.

Specifically, we cover:

1) Event planning timeline and how we pull in other partners

2) How to assign clear owners to event tasks

3) What are our biggest fears around events

4) Should you invite sales team members to your events

5) How to fix on-day event problems like not enough attendees

6) Ways to get inspiration from events outside B2B

Regina drinks Catch and Release Chardonnay 🥂

I drink Catch and Release Pinot Noir 🍷

Ben drinks an IPA 🍻

In Episode 13 of Season 2 - Ben and I talk about the stress of hitting quota at the end of the quarter for sales teams (fresh off of end of quarter at Navattic).

Specifically, we cover:

1) Why sales is laser-focused on hitting quota

2) Ben's experience with quota at other companies

3) How marketing can not bother sales near the end of the quarter

4) Ways to involve the entire sales team in setting quotas

5) How hitting quota impacts the entire company

6) Dissecting wins to help sales reps play to strengths and talents

Ben drinks a whiskey 🥃

I drink a canned cocktail 🍸

In Episode 12 of Season 2 - Ben and I go over our "failure lists" from being first-time startup leaders. We reflect on failures and lessons learned as startup executives and talk about the general benefits of keeping track of your failures.

Specifically, we cover:

1) Struggling to balance IC work and managing others

2) Realizing a lack of documentation when onboarding new hires

3) Ways to improve communication between GTM and product on feature requests

4) Why normal marketers are different from event marketers

5) Trusting your founders and their direction for company growth

6) How Ben and I make decisions now based on learning from these failures

Ben drinks a coffee with whiskey ☕️

I drink a Chianti 🍷

In Episode 11 of Season 2 - Ben and I reflect on our first official sales kickoff and the B2BMX conference. Plus we discuss the benefit of focusing in-person company events on just getting to know each other.

Specifically, we cover:

1) Why Ben decided to structure the SKO the way he did

2) Connecting with employees to understand what motivates them

3) How trust at the leadership level plays into running these types of events

4) Fear and decision fatigue from marketers apparent at B2BMX

5) Navigating awkward conference convos

Ben drinks water 💧

I drink a Pinot noir 🍷

In Episode 10 of Season 2 - a month into 2024 Ben and I give our take on how the software buying market compares to 2023. 

Specifically, we cover:

1) Why everyone was so excited about 2024 vs 2023

2) Continued budget concerns for 2024

3) How more stakeholders/ departments are involved in the buying process

4) A shift away from PLG to more wholistic self-serve buying

5) Why the market has been so competitive and ways to stand out

6) A divide in marketing strategies for 2024

Ben drinks a Coors Banquet 🍻

I drink a Chianti 🍷

In Episode 9 of Season 2 - Ben and I discuss our process for creating our new State of the Interactive Demo Report 2024.

Specifically, we cover:

1) How we sourced questions from our sales team for the report

2) Why we use first-party product data vs survey data

3) Ways we promoted the report and got early feedback

4) How we designed the report to make it more sharable

5) What we changed about this report vs last year's report

6) Fun games to help the sales team learn the data

Ben drinks a Coors Banquet 🍻

I drink a Cucumber Mint Cocktail 🥒

If you want to see the report: https://www.navattic.com/report/state-of-the-interactive-product-demo-2024