THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off! Featuring: Drew McLellan, AMI In episode 135, I sit down with Drew McLellan, CEO of Agency Management Institute and host of the Build a Better Agency podcast. Drew’s been in the business for over 30 years and has coached thousands of agencies on how to grow profitably, attract better clients, and actually enjoy the perks of ownership. In this conversation, we unpack what the real job of an agency owner is — and how easy it is to get lost in the weeds doing everyone else’s. Drew shares how founders can move from day-to-day chaos to the higher-level work of vision, leadership, and building a pipeline that doesn’t depend on them. We also talk about the mental shift from “founder hustle” to “CEO clarity,” and what it really means to build an agency that serves your life, not the other way around. Key Bytes• The three things only the owner can and should do• Why your agency’s profit tells the truth about your leadership• Building a self-sustaining pipeline that runs without you• How to structure your week around the owner’s actual job• The difference between running an agency and owning a business• What makes an agency truly “sellable”• Common traps that keep founders stuck in the weeds• How to get your time back without losing control Chapters00:00 Welcome and Drew’s background04:12 The evolution from founder to true agency owner09:45 What the “owner’s actual job” really is14:58 Why agency profit is a mirror of leadership20:17 Building systems and pipelines that aren’t you26:04 The importance of clarity and delegation31:42 Common mistakes that limit scalability38:27 How to build an agency that can thrive without you44:10 Preparing for eventual sale or succession49:22 Drew’s advice for new and seasoned agency owners Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 30+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group, in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R and still actively runs the agency. He spends the lion’s share of his time running Agency Management Institute (AMI), which he also co-owns/runs with his wife Danyel. AMI serves thousands of small to mid-sized agencies (advertising, digital, marketing, media, and PR) every year, so they can increase their AGI, attract better clients and employees, mitigate the risks of being self-employed in such a volatile business, and best of all — let the agency owner actually enjoy the perks of agency ownership. AMI is the only agency network that is run by an active agency owner. It offers: Public workshops for agency owners, leaders and account service staff Owner peer networks (like a Vistage group or 4A’s forums) Private coaching/consulting for agency owners Annual primary research with CMOs and client decision makers about their work with agencies The highly praised podcast Build A Better Agency The only conference built for small to mid-sized agencies – the Build A Better Agency Summit Drew often appears in publications like Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, Washington Post, Forbes, AdAge, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read.” He’s also written several books, the most recent being Sell with Authority (January 2020). The latest book has garnered rave reviews and has been the guidebook for agency growth and business development in today’s world. Drew also speaks at leading agency and marketing conferences like Inbound, Content Marketing World, and MAICON and is often cited in agency-centric content for his expertise in the industry. When he’s not hanging out with clients or agency owners and their staff, Drew spends time with his wife, their blended family, and following his beloved Dodgers. Learn more about Drew and AMI on their website.

Featuring: Jen Moss, JAR In episode 134, I sit down with Jen Moss, Chief Creative Officer and co-founder of JAR, where she helps brands and agencies craft podcasts that move people—not just metrics. Jen calls herself a podcasting doula, guiding clients through the messy middle of creative storytelling. In this conversation, we dive into how to create audio that actually connects, what makes a podcast worth listening to, and why “Job, Audience, Result” is the framework every agency should adopt before hitting record. Jen and I explore why most branded podcasts fizzle, how to define success beyond downloads, and the difference between authenticity and algorithm-chasing. If you’ve ever thought about starting a podcast for your agency—or making your current one work harder—this episode’s for you. Key Bytes • The JAR method: Job, Audience, Result—a simple framework for podcast strategy.• Why authenticity and storytelling beat reach every time.• How agencies can use podcasts as pillar content that drives real relationships.• Common landmines when launching an agency podcast.• Why generosity and curiosity build audience trust.• The most meaningful metrics: engagement, consumption rate, and return listeners.• When to use internal vs. external hosts—and why it depends.• The role of creative courage in a crowded podcast space.• Why “connection” should always be your North Star. Chapters 00:00 Intro – Meet Jen Moss, podcasting doula and CCO of JAR02:00 From theater to radio: Jen’s storytelling roots06:00 The JAR framework explained: Job, Audience, Result09:30 The real “why” behind launching a podcast12:30 How agencies can use podcasts as strategic marketing tools16:30 Internal vs. external hosts: what actually works19:45 Common landmines and why most podcasts fizzle22:00 Authenticity, generosity, and giving value away24:30 Is podcasting too saturated? Finding signal in the noise27:45 Connection over clicks—how to stand out31:00 The metrics that matter: consumption, return, and reach trends33:50 Rapid Fire with Jen Moss: storytelling, creative courage, and dream guests In her role as Chief Creative Officer of JAR, Co-Founder Jen Moss loves bringing stories to life. With her clients, Jen acts as a “podcasting Doula,” helping them harness their strengths in service of great storytelling. Deeply steeped in the creative process, Jen is unafraid of its ambiguities, and enjoys guiding others through its twists and turns. Drawing on her strong background in theatre, arts journalism, audio documentary, and new media storytelling, Jen helps clients tell the authentic stories that matter to them, and to their audience. She spent many years working as a producer and award-winning content creator for CBC Radio, and as an interactive story producer for The National Film Board of Canada’s Digital Studio, which taught her to think of stories as living things, full of potential for impact. It also taught her to take an “audience first” approach. Jen is never afraid of surfacing big ideas, but understands that sometimes, it’s the little things – the specific lens that “only you” can bring – that will gain the most traction with an audience. Jen loves to look for “fresh tracks” in the form of stories that haven’t been told before. She encourages her clients and her team at JAR to try out new ideas, learn from what the audience data reveals, and let that inform future creative strategy. Finally, Jen keeps her own professional learning curve alive as she lectures part-time at the University of British Columbia’s School of Creative Writing, interacting with the next generation of writers, podcasters, new media producers, and audiences. Contact Jen on their website or on LinkedIn.   THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off!

Featuring: Kirstin Russ, Practical Edge AI In episode 133, I dive into the real-world path of AI adoption for agencies with guest Kirstin Russ, founder of Principal Edge AI and Mountains to Sea Media. We unpack the four “zones” of adoption (from denial to productized services), why most AI projects fail without structure and change management, and how to turn internal automations into billable client solutions. We also hit on junior-talent pipelines in an AI world, the risk of “robot-trained-by-robots” content, pricing when you’re still learning, and the discovery discipline required to make automations actually stick. Key Bytes• The winning agencies move from “dabbling in automations” to selling AI-powered solutions that solve specific client problems.• 95% of AI projects fail because of missing structure, messy data, and zero change management — fix those first.• AI should elevate people to higher-value work; train juniors to work with AI, not to be replaced by it.• Don’t chase every shiny tool; build repeatable agent patterns and a stable stack you trust.• Discovery is everything: a “15-step” flow usually hides 30 more steps — price and scope accordingly.• Monetization starts with ops pain: map ugly manual workflows, then automate the “swivel-chair” steps.• Thought leadership beats generic AI copy: capture founder audio, codify brand voice + ICPs, then assist with AI.• Profit vs. quality is a real tension — set guardrails so efficiency never erodes outcomes. Chapters00:00 Intro & Kirstin’s two businesses00:57 Why an outsource-first agency model03:07 Year of deep AI study and first tools “in the wild”04:43 The four zones of agency AI adoption06:14 From “getting ahead” to “survive”: disruption hits marketing09:01 Why AI projects fail: structure, data, and change management11:00 Practical internal automations (transcripts → CRM, follow-ups, etc.)12:58 Junior talent in an AI era & the content quality dilemma15:18 Building an AI content assist system (voice, ICP, research)18:48 Tool sprawl vs. foundations; avoiding shiny-object traps20:40 Can clients DIY? Positioning & selling AI services21:08 Case studies: Square inventory workflow & quote tool24:38 Pricing while you’re learning; managing expectations27:18 Aha moments: you can’t do it all; systemize & delegate29:14 Theme songs, imposter syndrome, and wrap up Kirstin Russ is a seasoned business strategist with 30 years of cross-industry experience who brings a unique dual approach to business growth. As the founder of Practical Edge AI, she helps businesses leverage artificial intelligence to automate growth, reduce manual workload, and improve profitability—often delivering measurable results within the first week. Simultaneously, as the driving force behind Mountains to Sea Media, a Western North Carolina-based digital marketing agency, Kirstin helps businesses amplify their online presence through strategic internet marketing, data analytics, and performance-focused web design. Kirstin's superpower lies in her holistic approach to business analysis, understanding how systems interconnect and where AI can enhance traditional & digital marketing strategies. By combining cutting-edge AI solutions with proven digital marketing expertise, she creates integrated growth pathways that optimize both operations and customer acquisition. With an approachable style and commitment to practical results, Kirstin transforms business challenges into opportunities. Her guiding question remains: "If you could wave a magic wand and change anything about your business, what would it be?" Contact Kirstin on the Practical Edge AI website or LinkedIn, Mountains to Sea Media website or LinkedIn.   THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off!

Featuring: Leah Leaves, Alderaan Operations Solutions In episode 132, I talk with Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, Leah and her team embed expert operations managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision. We dig into what causes owners to become the bottleneck, the difference between goals, systems, and team accountability, and how every agency—no matter the size—can start building a foundation that prevents burnout and supports growth. Leah also shares how to identify when it’s time to bring in an operator, how to delegate effectively, and why even the best creative agencies need structure to thrive. We wrap by exploring how AI fits into internal operations and why every agency needs an AI Ops roadmap, even if it’s just six months ahead. Key Bytes • Burnout often begins with unclear goals and missing systems; clarity is the antidote.• Leah outlines four agency owner archetypes—the Trusting Optimist, Firefighting Founder, Reluctant Gatekeeper, and Visionary Leader—and how operators help each evolve.• Delegation isn’t dumping tasks; it’s empowering your team with context and ownership.• Documenting the “why” behind your systems drives consistency and accountability.• Operators create the scaffolding for scale—allowing founders to focus on vision, not firefighting.• Every agency, regardless of size, benefits from an AI Ops roadmap to guide internal efficiency.• Start with what you already have—processes, checklists, or recurring workflows—and build from there.• Systems don’t kill creativity; they protect it by removing chaos and decision fatigue. Chapters 00:00 Intro and welcome with guest Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions02:00 The Star Wars origin of “Alderaan” and Leah’s path from journalism to operations05:30 From creative to systems thinker: finding flow in operations08:00 How unclear goals and missing systems cause bottlenecks10:00 Guardrails vs. micromanagement: empowering the team without overengineering13:00 The burnout cycle and why delegation is a creative act15:00 The four types of agency owners and their operational challenges20:00 Shifting from bottleneck to visionary: the operator’s role in scaling23:30 Why every agency needs an AI ops roadmap26:30 Putting “robots” in the org chart and making automation work29:00 Low-hanging AI wins: onboarding, recruiting, and workflow automation32:00 Rapid-fire Q&A: distilling systems, theme songs, and unexpected client wins34:45 Closing thoughts and where to find Leah Leah Leaves is the Founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital marketing agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, she and her team embed expert Operations Managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision. Contact Leah on LinkedIn, on the Alderaan website, or take their Agency Owner Quiz.

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITIONSTART YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGH25 to save 50% off! Featuring: Maiya Holliday, Mangrove In episode 131, I sit down with Maiya Holliday, founder and CEO of Mangrove Web Development, a Certified B Corp agency that’s been building websites for change-makers since 2009. Maiya shares her evolution from self-taught coder to agency leader, how she built Mangrove into a values-driven, fully remote team long before it was trendy, and why B Corp certification serves as an operating system rather than a marketing badge. We dive into the realities of serving nonprofits and purpose-led organizations, how to balance mission and margin, and how AI is reshaping collaboration between designers and developers. Maiya’s insights are both grounding and inspiring for anyone building a business around impact and intention. Key Bytes • B Corp certification can provide structure for how an agency operates—not just a label to display.• Nonprofit clients aren’t “low budget” if you help them tie digital to their mission, revenue, and reach.• AI is changing agency workflows fast, but curiosity, ethics, and experimentation keep it human.• Merging two purpose-driven teams isn’t about scale—it’s about shared values and vision.• Mangrove’s evolution shows that you can stay small, focused, and deeply impactful. Chapters 00:00 Intro: From coder to CEO01:00 The origin story of Mangrove Web03:30 Becoming a Certified B Corp06:00 Lessons from the certification process09:00 Staying accountable to B Corp principles11:00 How competition has evolved in the B Corp space14:30 Why Mangrove focuses on nonprofits & foundations17:30 Pricing and positioning in the nonprofit world20:00 The role of AI in Mangrove’s workflow23:00 How design and dev are converging27:30 Internal AI tooling vs. client-facing tools30:00 Building trust as a strategic digital advisor32:20 Rapid fire: remote work, creative parenting, and common myths34:50 Closing thoughts Resources Mentioned https://www.ai4np.org/ Maiya Holliday, CEO and Founder of Mangrove Web Development, is a creative leader and collaborator who crafts digital solutions to augment the impact of changemakers. She is a self-taught coder with over a decade of hands-on experience. Maiya aligns folks toward actionable goals that help articulate and communicate their organization’s purpose and impact on the web, with people, planet, purpose, and equity at the core. She has led over 200 website projects for changemakers and purpose-driven organizations. Maiya led Mangrove to become a Certified B Corp in 2016 and has since championed the cause of socially and environmentally conscious businesses, deepening their impact. She values working alongside a diverse team of talented people who are passionate about what they do. A Bay Area native, Maiya now lives in the mountains of Truckee, CA, with her husband Shaun and little humans Terner and Miles. You might also find her in Oakland or Australia, where she tends to show up on a regular basis. Contact Maiya on LinkedIn, the company's LinkedIn page, or their website.

Featuring: Peter Lang, Digital Agency Business In episode 130, I sit down with Peter Lang—co-founder of Digital Agency Business and AVA, and longtime agency acquirer—to unpack how agency owners can use M&A as a growth superpower. Peter shares the seven-day deal that doubled his agency’s revenue, the due-diligence signals that actually matter (talent, client stickiness, and contracts), why most M&A fails on culture not math, and how AI is reshaping hiring and service models. We also get into founder identity after the sale, what “professional maturity” looks like, and why many owners are really capital allocators in the making. Key Bytes • M&A can compress years of organic growth into months—if you underwrite people, clients, and terms before the numbers.• Culture fit and integration planning beat fancy spreadsheets; most failed deals are value misalignment, not valuation.• AI is wiping out entry-level tasks first; the winners redeploy A-players and teach clients how to use AI, not hide from it.• Founder-led sales can’t be the only engine; build repeatable sales capacity that survives distractions.• You already “work for” whoever pays you—selling changes the customer, not your agency DNA.• Treat time like capital: budget it, forecast it, and review it like an effective executive. Chapters 00:00 Cold open, quick re-intro01:08 The seven-day deal that doubled revenue03:32 Doing three deals in 90 days during COVID06:36 Common seller misconceptions and Peter’s deal lens09:19 Endurance mindset, calendars, and operating like an athlete13:46 What buyers actually look for beyond the numbers17:43 AI’s impact on talent, delivery, and survival to 202722:10 Life after the sale and “professional maturity”24:51 Rapid fire: celebrating wins, the race that changed him, dream acquisition27:45 Where to learn more (digitalagencybusiness.com) Resources Mentioned • Effective Executive by Peter Drucker (time tracking and retrospective)• GrowthHackers community (context on Peter’s portfolio)• digitalagencybusiness.com (Peter’s M&A training and upcoming book) Peter Lang is an entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist with over 15 years of experience building, buying, and selling companies across online publishing, media, advertising, e-commerce, and consulting. He’s the co-founder and Chief M&A Officer at AVA, a fast-growing digital agency holding company acquiring businesses in the $1–10 million range. Peter also runs Digital Agency Business (DAB), an e-learning company that trains entrepreneurs to launch and scale their own agencies. A former CEO of Uhuru Network and advisor to multiple companies, Peter’s passion lies in using mergers and acquisitions to accelerate growth. An endurance athlete and family man, he lives by the belief that anything is achievable with hard work. Contact Peter on LinkedIn or his website.

Featuring: Natasha Golinsky, On Purpose Projects In episode 129, I talk with Natasha Golinski, founder of On Purpose Projects, a custom web and e-commerce dev agency. Natasha is a three-time Canada Women of Influence nominee, a mom of three, and a breast cancer survivor—and she’s built her business around the belief that mindset is everything. We dig into how she went from “accidental agency owner” to leading a zero-meeting, all-contractor team for over a decade, and why journaling, EFT (tapping), and surrounding yourself with the right people are critical to surviving the entrepreneurial rollercoaster. Natasha also shares how a cancer diagnosis forced her to hire ops support—and ultimately led to one of her agency’s biggest months ever. This episode is a masterclass in grit, leadership, and the mental game of entrepreneurship. Key Bytes • Mindset is the job. Natasha starts most days with journaling and EFT to reset anxiety and focus.• Zero meetings, high loyalty. A culture of respect, gratitude, and no drama keeps her contractor team thriving.• Protect your people. Leadership means absorbing the stress and passing the praise.• Say no early. Guardrails in discovery protect the team from toxic clients.• Crisis as catalyst. Cancer forced Natasha to let go of ops—and it unlocked growth.• Community matters. No one is self-made—surround yourself with peers who lift you up.• Focus sharpens delivery. On Purpose Projects does dev only—like a food truck that just serves crepes. Chapters 00:00 Welcome & Natasha’s background02:12 Accidental agency beginnings04:45 Mindset, marketing, and money: her founder lane07:30 Morning pages & EFT as daily reset tools11:05 Cancer diagnosis, hiring ops, and a breakthrough month15:20 Building loyalty in a zero-meeting contractor culture20:22 Client red flags & protecting your team23:50 Why no one is self-made: the role of community26:30 Rapid-fire fun: karaoke, first impressions, food truck metaphor28:55 Closing thoughts Natasha Golinsky is the founder of an award-winning web development and ecommerce agency, a three-time nominee for the Canada Women of Influence® Award, and a tireless champion of female agency owners. Natasha’s also a mom of three and a breast cancer survivor who brings grit, heart, and a deep sense of purpose to everything she does. I’m thrilled to dig into her journey, her mission, and the lessons she’s learned along the way. Natasha, welcome to the show. Award-winning web development & ecommerce agency founder | Champion & connector of female agency owners | 3x nominee Canada Women of Influence® Award | Breast Cancer Butt-Kicker | Mom x 3 Contact Natasha on their website or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Logan Lyles, DemandShift In episode 128, I sit down with Logan Lyles, founder of DemandShift and longtime B2B sales and marketing pro. Logan’s career has spanned brand side, agency side, and now his own consultancy—giving him a unique perspective on what it really takes to grow pipeline. We unpack his journey from scaling Sweet Fish Media to Inc. 5000 status, building the Agency Life series at Teamwork, and leading growth at Business Builders. Most importantly, Logan shares how he turned disappointing webinar results into a repeatable framework that consistently converts registrations into booked sales calls. If you’ve ever run a webinar that felt like a win… until the dreaded “conversion cliff,” this episode gives you the practical, step-by-step fixes to turn those views into revenue. Key Bytes • Logan explains how most agencies fall into the “conversion cliff” trap—lots of registrants, little pipeline—and the two-part fix that changed everything.• He shares the importance of packaging your expertise into a clear framework that creates a natural next step.• We break down his two-step registration process that boosted webinar conversions by 5–10x.• We compare free vs. paid events, what impacts show-up rates, and which strategy works best for agencies.|• We talk about how webinars double as content engines for thought leadership and trust building.• Logan shares why solopreneurs and 20-person agencies alike can adapt this strategy with the right tech stack.• He opens up about lessons learned in sales—why not every “yes” is worth chasing. Chapters 00:02 Intro to Logan Lyles and Demand Shift01:14 Logan’s meandering career path from journalism to sales to agency life03:09 Lessons from scaling Sweet Fish Media and leading growth at Business Builders06:44 Why referrals aren’t enough for agencies anymore07:28 The “conversion cliff” of webinars and how Logan fixed it09:48 The two-step registration process that boosted conversions 5–10x12:59 Free vs. paid webinars: show rates, signups, and strategy15:57 Webinars as thought-leadership engines and content machines19:11 Blending demand gen with brand building for faster sales cycles23:02 Rethinking webinars: live podcasts, polls, and engagement tactics27:08 Sales lessons: why not every yes is worth chasing27:50 Wrap-up and where to find Logan (demandshift.co) Logan Lyles has spent 17 years in B2B sales & marketing, drawing on his journalism background & working both agency- and brand-side in various roles. He has helped multiple agencies scale, including helping lead Sweet Fish Media onto the Inc 5,000 List 2 years in a row & increasing Business Builders monthly email list growth by 580% in 2024. Logan is the founder of DemandShift, a webinar-as-a-service agency, the co-host of the weekly podcast: The Marketing Max Show & a LinkedIn Top Voice. Contact Logan on his website or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Kelly Schuknecht, Two Mile High Marketing In episode 127, I talk with Kelly Schuknecht, founder of Two Mile High Marketing and host of the Beyond the Best Seller podcast. Kelly shares her journey from being laid off to launching her agency, how she quickly built a team, and why she’s focused on helping agency owners and CEOs grow through thought leadership platforms. We dig into what I call The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan—a repeatable system of podcasts, stages, and LinkedIn that helps agencies build authority, stay top-of-mind, and consistently attract clients. Key Bytes • The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan comes down to visibility, credibility, and consistency.• Trusting yourself to leap without a safety net accelerates growth.• Niching disqualifies the wrong buyers while pulling in the right ones.• Visibility means showing up where your audience already is.• Credibility is built in a snap judgment—package your proof.• Consistency matters more than volume—set a realistic cadence.• Every podcast interview can fuel a month’s worth of content.• Delegating early unlocks owner time for actual growth work.• In-person events still beat virtual for relationship building. Chapters 00:00 Introducing Kelly and the story behind “Two Mile High”03:30 From acquisition layoff to launching an agency06:45 Why she pivoted away from “fractional CMO”09:55 The challenge and power of niching down13:50 Hiring early and delegating with trust16:20 The Visibility–Credibility–Consistency framework19:55 A realistic cadence for LinkedIn, podcasts, and speaking24:10 In-person vs. virtual events and AI’s limitations26:45 Rapid Fire: superpowers, lessons learned, and marketing myths Kelly Schuknecht is the founder of Two Mile High Marketing, where she partners with agency owners and business leaders to build powerful thought leadership platforms. With over 15 years of marketing experience and a track record of elevating brands from behind the scenes, Kelly now helps experts step into the spotlight through strategic content, visibility tactics, and authentic personal branding. She’s the host of Beyond the Bestseller, a podcast featuring women who use their stories to lead. Connect with Kelly on their company website, personal website, or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Meeky Hwang, Ndevr In episode 126, I sit down with Meeky Hwang, CEO and partner at Endeavor, a WordPress development agency powering digital platforms for major media and enterprise brands like Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony. With over two decades of experience in development and DevOps, Meeky has built Endeavor into a trusted name in the WordPress ecosystem while also paving the way as a female leader in tech. We talk about her accidental journey into agency ownership, what it’s like leading in an industry where women are still underrepresented, and how Endeavor built its three-pillar framework for resilient platforms. Meeky shares candid insights on navigating partnerships, the challenges of “over-engineering” with headless CMS, and the importance of masterminds and community for entrepreneurs. Key Bytes • Meeky shares how an “accidental” freelance project led to a decade-long partnership and agency.• She discusses the importance of having clear role delineation with her co-founder to avoid missteps.• Endeavor’s three-pillar framework (audience experience, editorial experience, developer experience) keeps their platforms resilient.• She explains why many publishers are moving away from over-engineered headless CMS solutions back to WordPress.• As a female leader in tech, she reflects on mentorship, representation, and inspiring others by simply “being the first.”• She stresses the value of mastermind groups for growth and support, something she wishes she’d pursued earlier.• Endeavor is exploring AI to streamline workflows and even testing new content tools for clients.• Her advice for organizations: implement proper version control and CI/CD to avoid preventable tech mistakes. Chapters 00:00 Welcome and introduction to Meeky Hwang03:00 Becoming an “accidental” agency founder07:00 Women in tech and leadership representation11:00 Why Endeavor niched into WordPress and media12:30 The three-pillar framework for resilient platforms15:00 Headless CMS pitfalls and returning to WordPress18:00 Navigating co-founder roles and partnerships23:00 AI, internal tools, and what’s next for Endeavor25:00 The power of masterminds for entrepreneurs27:00 Rapid fire: karaoke, hobbies, and tech stack fixes Meeky Hwang is the CEO & Partner at Ndevr, a WordPress development agency trusted by leading digital media and enterprise companies. With 20+ years of experience in web development, open-source technology, and DevOps, she specializes in optimizing complex digital ecosystems, streamlining editorial workflows, and aligning technology with business goals. Meeky has helped major brands like PMC, Hearst, Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony build scalable, high-performing digital platforms. A champion for women in tech, she is passionate about fostering opportunities for the next generation of leaders. Contact Meeky on their website.

Featuring: Dolores G Hirschmann, Masters in Clarity In episode 125, I sit down with Dolores Hirschmann, investor, strategist, and founder of Masters in Clarity. Dolores has built, scaled, and sold businesses—including one to Pete Vargas and Grant Cardone after growing it to eight figures. A former TEDx organizer, she now helps service professionals and thought leaders clarify their message, craft high-converting signature talks, and get booked on stages that drive real business results. We explore her journey from early internet marketing in Argentina to launching an outbound speaker agency, and she shares her framework for creating talks that convert, practical tips for pitching event organizers, and why thought leadership is still one of the most powerful growth levers for agencies. Key Bytes • Thought leadership isn’t about celebrity—it’s about clarity and consistency• A great talk is less about what you say and more about what your audience walks away with• Don’t pitch event organizers with long bios—open the door with a simple yes/no question• The best call-to-action from stage isn’t a free consultation, it’s a free resource tied to your talk• A signature talk framework can be applied to any presentation—keynote, workshop, or boardroom update• Speaking is one of the most scalable ways to build trust, demonstrate expertise, and generate new business Chapters 00:00 Welcome and introduction to Dolores Hirschmann01:18 Early internet marketing and human-to-human relationships04:58 Moving to the U.S. and pioneering online learning platforms06:26 From serial entrepreneur to coach and strategist08:19 Organizing TEDx and developing the signature talk framework11:26 Building and scaling a speaker agency to $20M+14:29 Why agencies need to lean into speaking and thought leadership15:44 Practical steps to land more speaking opportunities20:07 The seven steps of a high-converting talk23:24 How to craft calls-to-action that drive leads from stage25:23 Using QR codes and free resources to capture audience interest26:25 Masters in Clarity workshops and software for speakers27:02 Rapid fire: tap dancing, gut instincts, and buying businesses Dolores Hirschmann is an investor, strategist, speaker, and founder of Masters in Clarity, a strategy and business coaching firm. She helps service professionals grow their businesses and establish thought leadership. A former TEDx organizer, she specializes in positioning experts, authors, consultants, and coaches for success. Dolores recently sold a company to Pete Vargas and Grant Cardone, supporting its growth to multiple 8 figures in four years. She built a software platform to help speakers get placed on stages and advises businesses on preparing for profitable exits. Masters in Clarity provides fractional Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) services to help companies design and execute marketing initiatives and set up automated marketing systems. As an investor, Dolores acquires and scales small businesses, ensuring their legacy and long-term success. Connect with Dolores on their website.

Featuring: Joe Rojas, Start Grow Manage In episode 124, I sit down with Joe Rojas, founder of Start Grow Manage and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. Joe has built and sold multiple MSPs, each time leveraging the power of deep niching to accelerate growth. We talk about the pivotal inflection points in a business’s lifecycle, why niching works across any industry, and how systems and values create businesses that can run—and grow—without the owner. Joe shares his framework for moving from “job” to “business,” the core values that drive his work, and how agencies can increase profitability by solving real business problems for clients. We also discuss the parallels between MSPs and agencies when it comes to client retention, lifetime value, and building a life you actually want to live. Key Bytes • Niching accelerates growth because it clarifies your offer and your audience• The difference between a lifestyle job and a lifestyle business is scale and delegation• Core values must be discovered, not invented—and hiring should be based on them• Profitability can start with your existing clients, not just new ones• Long-term success comes from solving clients’ business problems, not just delivering services Chapters 00:00 Welcome and guest intro01:06 Joe’s journey from the Army to building and selling MSPs03:18 Understanding the “Start, Grow, Manage” stages05:03 Why Joe wrote How Entrepreneurs Thrive06:33 The $1M inflection point and profitability mindset08:16 Helping clients reclaim their time and freedom12:20 Building core values that drive the business16:46 Hiring for abundance mindset and cultural fit21:07 How Joe’s book applies to agencies today24:07 Why technology changes but strategy doesn’t26:08 Expanding accounts by solving deeper problems28:37 Mapping the client journey for better results30:21 Rapid fire questions and closing thoughts Joe is the Founder at Start Grow Manage, based in New York, and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. He empowers Managed Service Providers and entrepreneurs to overcome the challenges of business formation to create profitable, growing businesses. As a serial entrepreneur himself, he has faced the challenge of making new and growing businesses work. His career started in the military, where he became an expert in information technology, eventually forming his own managed services company. Through that experience, he discovered the formula for businesses and learned that entrepreneurs are good at what they do but struggle to build a business. Connect with Joe on their website.

Featuring: Jenny Plant, Account Management Skills In episode 123, I sit down with Jenny Plant, founder of Account Management Skills, to talk about why strong account management is the secret weapon for agency growth. Drawing on over 25 years of experience on both the agency and client side, Jenny shares how she helps account managers develop the skills, confidence, and mindset to grow accounts without feeling “salesy.” We discuss the challenges of hybrid AM/PM roles, how to spot rising account management stars, and why curiosity and relationship skills often outweigh industry knowledge. Jenny also dives into her “Four P’s” of AI for account managers—Productivity, Personalization, Prescribe, and Predict—showing how technology can boost proactivity and client value. We wrap with insights on setting growth targets, charging for account management, and building a culture that celebrates account wins as much as new business. Key Bytes • Account growth starts with training AMs to be proactive, not just reactive service providers• Hybrid AM/PM roles often fail to drive growth because delivery takes priority over development• Curiosity and relationship skills can be more valuable than industry expertise• AI can help AMs be more productive, personalize interactions, prescribe solutions, and predict client needs• Co-creating growth targets with AMs boosts buy-in and accuracy• Celebrating account growth fosters a culture where client retention and expansion matter as much as net new business Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Jenny Plant & Account Management Skills02:20 Why sales training is vital for account managers04:16 The challenge of hybrid AM/PM roles in driving growth08:58 Traits of successful account managers11:32 Hiring AMs from outside the agency world13:14 Jenny’s Four P’s of AI for account managers18:19 Proactivity and presenting ideas to clients20:38 Co-creating account growth targets22:55 Charging for account management services24:36 How many accounts can one AM manage effectively?28:15 Creating a culture that celebrates account growth Jenny Plant is the founder of Account Management Skills a training company helping agency account managers retain client relationships and grow accounts. Jenny has over 25 years in agency account management and has also worked client-side in marketing for an international airline and pharmaceutical company. Her account management training programmes blend proven client growth methodologies with the integration of AI tools, helping agencies stay relevant, efficient, and proactive. She also hosts the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast, where she shares insights and interviews to elevate the agency-client relationship management standards across the industry. Connect with Jenny on their website.

Featuring: Arielle Cohen, Business 411 In episode 122, I sit down with Ariel Cohn, founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 401, to talk about how she scaled a multi–seven figure agency by going all-in on the roofing niche. Ariel shares why niching transformed their operations, how they built scalable systems and sister companies to serve the industry, and why embracing AI and virtual teams has been key to their growth. We also dive into the mindset shifts required to build an agency that supports your lifestyle — instead of running you into the ground. Key Bytes • Niching down creates clarity, repeatable systems, and faster scaling opportunities• A sister company approach can build trust and open new revenue streams• Retainer-based models help stabilize cash flow and increase profitability• Virtual teams and offshore talent can boost efficiency without sacrificing quality• Embracing AI is no longer optional — it’s essential for agency survival and growth Chapters 00:01 Intro and Ariel’s background in roofing marketing01:12 From generalist to roofing specialist: why niching was key04:44 Myths about niching and lessons from going all-in07:32 Defining the ideal client profile and setting minimums09:00 Early challenges and focusing on revenue first12:34 Building two complementary companies for growth16:22 Leveraging virtual teams, overseas talent, and AI for scale19:07 Retainer models vs. one-off projects for stable growth20:29 Staying hungry and setting bigger goals23:18 Embracing AI and adapting to industry change25:10 Rapid fire: worst advice, daily habits, and explaining her job to a 5-year-old Arielle Cohen is the Co-Founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 411. With over a decade of experience in marketing, she has mastered the art of growing a Multi 7 Figure Agency through building a scalable and efficient operation. As the company grows, her focus has shifted to optimizing her time and building a dream company that supports her vision and lifestyle—without letting the business take over. Connect with Arielle at marketing411.com, business411.com, or @arielleCEO on social.  

Featuring: Shawn Johnston, Forge and Smith In episode 121, I sit down with Shawn Johnston, founder of Forge and Smith and creator of Refoundry—a low-code WordPress platform that’s transforming how agencies build and deliver websites. We talk about how Shawn cut delivery time by 70%, turned profit margins around using the Profit First method, and transitioned his agency toward a scalable, productized model. He shares insights on navigating developer pushback, balancing client empowerment with agency control, and preparing for evolving tech shifts like AI in web development. Whether you’re struggling with project bottlenecks, shrinking budgets, or scaling challenges, Shawn’s story offers a clear path forward for building smarter, more profitable systems. Key Bytes • Refoundry cut Forge and Smith’s development time by 70%, transforming profitability.• Adopting Profit First changed their approach to pricing and overhead limits.• Client empowerment through low-code builds loyalty and drives referrals.• Transitioning leadership allowed Shawn’s team to grow into bigger roles.• Technological shifts (like Webflow and AI) demand constant agency adaptation.• Productizing an internal tool opened new revenue streams beyond services.• Balancing developer pride with client needs is critical for successful adoption.• Early lessons in print taught Shawn to anticipate and embrace industry change. Chapters 00:01 Introduction to Shawn Johnston and Forge and Smith02:11 Moving from freelance to full agency and early challenges04:39 Implementing Profit First and shifting to scalable systems06:38 Why Refoundry: Bringing low-code to WordPress08:22 Cutting development time and improving project profitability11:23 Developer pushback and prioritizing client empowerment14:44 Evolving Refoundry into a product for other agencies17:03 Transitioning leadership and building team collaboration24:17 Preparing for tech shifts like AI and staying nimble in delivery28:30 Rapid fire questions and final reflections Shawn Johnston is the founder of Forge and Smith, a digital agency that’s launched over 500 websites in the past 13 years. After hitting the usual delivery bottlenecks and burnout cycles, he built Refoundry—a low-code platform for WordPress that helped his team cut build times by 70% and scale without sacrificing quality. Now he’s on a mission to help other agencies streamline delivery, boost margins, and build systems that actually work. Contact Shawn on Forge and Smith or Refoundry.

Featuring: Greg Bellinger, White Rabbit In episode 120, I sit down with Greg Bellinger, co-founder and CEO of White Rabbit, a web and mobile development agency with nearly 100 in-house employees spread across Colombia, India, and the U.S. Greg shares his journey from frontend developer to visionary CEO and breaks down how White Rabbit scaled by staying focused on one niche—supporting other agencies. We explore why White Rabbit only hires full-time employees, how niching into agency delivery gave them a competitive edge, and the strategic thinking behind launching their own internal project financial software. Greg also talks about his passion for creation, not just in code but in culture, leadership, and future products. This one’s full of takeaways for agency owners looking to scale with purpose. Key Bytes • Greg shares why they only hire full-time employees and the cultural benefits that come with it• He explains how niching into working with agencies helped them scale more efficiently• Greg reflects on stepping away from product management and letting his leadership team shine• He talks about the challenges of managing across three countries and how they keep their culture unified• Greg reveals details about their custom-built project management and financial tool• He offers insight into people management, tough conversations, and protecting your energy• He shares his personal philosophy of “create,” from coding to building culture• Greg discusses what entrepreneurship means to him and how it’s been part of his DNA from the start Chapters 00:00 Welcome and guest intro01:00 The origin of White Rabbit and its full-time hiring philosophy02:30 Transitioning out of coding and project management06:00 Working exclusively with agencies vs. going direct07:15 Niching and its impact on growth and clarity10:00 Scaling globally: why Colombia, India, and the U.S.12:00 Uniting culture across three countries14:00 Vision for the future: stepping back, launching products16:30 Building internal software for project and financial management19:00 Lessons in people management and entrepreneurship25:00 Rapid fire: guilty pleasures, two-word advice, and dream hire Greg Bellinger is the Co-Founder and CEO of White Rabbit Group, a web and mobile development agency with a fully in-house team of nearly 100 employees across three countries. His passion for technology began in childhood, leading him to hand-code his first websites in 2008. In 2016, he co-founded White Rabbit Group, building it into a trusted development partner for world-class agencies and creatives. Under his leadership, the company has earned a reputation for delivering high-quality digital solutions while fostering a close culture of technical experts. Contact Greg on the White Rabbit website or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Jessica Malnik In episode 119, I sit down with Jessica Malnik, a B2B messaging strategist who’s helped over 75 founders and lean marketing teams craft content that actually gets read—and drives results. We talk about the risks of over-commoditized content in the age of AI and why a flood of “cheap” output isn’t a strategy. Jessica walks me through her signature framework, the Marketing MOAT, which focuses on Messaging, Distribution, and Content Efficiency. She also shares practical, low-lift ways agencies can build content machines, maximize existing assets, and stay consistent without burning out. We even talk about content imposter syndrome, the curse of knowledge, and why you don’t have to be totally unique—you just need to show up as yourself. If you’ve ever struggled with creating content that converts (and keeps converting), this episode is packed with clarity, systems, and smart takes that’ll help you raise your signal-to-noise ratio. Key Bytes • Messaging without a unique perspective leads to content that gets ignored• AI-only content creation can dilute your brand and commoditize your services• Her “Marketing MOAT” framework focuses on messaging, distribution, and content efficiency• Distribution must be built into strategy from the beginning, not as an afterthought• Agencies should reuse and repurpose evergreen content instead of always creating new• Consistency (3x/week on LinkedIn) matters more than frequency spikes• Authenticity in content doesn’t mean oversharing—it means resonance• Set goals based on team size, budget, and business stage, then reverse engineer your strategy Chapters 00:01 Welcome and intro to Jessica Malnik01:46 Common agency messaging mistakes03:26 Why AI-only content is risky for agencies05:14 Jessica’s Marketing MOAT framework explained07:21 How to develop “spiky” messaging and content positioning10:34 Distribution strategy: where your audience actually is14:04 Own your content—don’t rely only on social algorithms15:09 Content efficiency and repurposing systems19:00 Best practices for publishing frequency21:16 Balancing personal and professional content22:28 Reverse engineering content strategy based on goals23:41 Rapid Fire Q&A with Jessica Jessica Malnik has helped over 75 B2B founders and lean marketing teams fix their positioning and craft messaging people actually read and respond to. She’s spoken at half a dozen in-person conferences in the U.S., Australia, and Thailand, as well as dozens of virtual webinars, workshops, and podcast guest appearances. She’s also been featured in WSJ, The Next Web, MicroConf, Wynter, SXSW, and MSN UK, among many others. Contact Jessica on their website or join their newsletter.

Featuring: Jamie Brindle In episode 118, I’m joined by Jamie Brindle—a freelancer, strategist, and creator who’s built a half-million-strong audience around helping creative solopreneurs build sustainable, scalable freelance businesses. In this conversation, Jamie breaks down what it means to be an “Entrelancer”—a hybrid of entrepreneur and freelancer—and why the traditional view of freelancing is overdue for a reboot. We talk about why having an audience builds instant trust, how freelancers can evolve into business owners without employees, and the myths around websites and portfolios that keep too many creatives stuck in planning mode instead of taking action. Jamie also shares a powerful framework for moving strangers into long-term client relationships—and why every freelancer should be thinking like a strategist, not just a task-taker. Whether you’re freelancing, running an agency, or somewhere in between, this one’s packed with fresh thinking. Key Bytes • Jamie shares the origin of the term “Entrelancer”—and how it reflects a more modern, business-minded freelancer.• He explains how their TikTok content (originally not for clients) unexpectedly opened doors to Fortune 100 opportunities.• We dig into the importance of digital products, productized services, and building systems to support time freedom.• Jamie outlines the four stages of the customer journey: Stranger → Lead → Client → Client for Life.• He gives a masterclass in how to manufacture delight, over-deliver, and secure repeat work.• We challenge the sacred cows of freelancer websites and portfolios—and why Jamie believes they’re massive time-wasters.• Sales anxiety? Jamie offers a grounded, simple mindset shift that removes pressure and focuses on being helpful.• He explains how positioning yourself as a solution—not a task-taker—is the unlock to charging more and building authority. Chapters 00:00 Welcome and Intro to Jamie Brindle01:00 The accidental power of TikTok and building trust04:30 Redefining success as a freelancer07:00 “Entrelancer” vs. freelancer: What’s the difference?11:40 Scaling without employees: Productized and digital offers13:00 Pivoting from video work to social media consulting15:25 Lessons from shifting services and getting back in the field19:30 Jamie’s four stages of the customer journey24:00 Reframing sales: It’s just solving a problem28:00 Positioning yourself as a strategic partner34:00 Why portfolios and websites are the biggest time wasters37:00 Final thoughts and closing Jamie Brindle is a freelancer who gives advice to over half a million other creatives on social media about building a scalable and sustainable freelance business. Contact Jamie on their website or @thejamiebrindle on all socials.

Featuring: Wanda Allen, Follow Up Sales In episode 117, I sit down with Wanda Allen, international speaker, coach, and author of Follow Up Sales Strategies. With 25 years in the corporate world and a background in business banking, Wanda developed a systemized approach to sales follow-up that now helps business owners and sales professionals increase their close rates. We dive into the psychology behind why so many people avoid follow-up, the fears that hold them back (hint: it’s not really about time), and how a simple shift in mindset and process can transform your sales pipeline. Wanda shares data-backed insights, actionable tips for improving follow-up cadence, and even debunks myths about being “pushy.” Whether you’re in active outreach or avoiding the phone like the plague, this episode will motivate you to reframe your follow-up game—and pick up the phone with purpose. We also talk about her book-writing journey, the importance of believing in the value you bring, and a bucket-list dream that has her heading south of the border. Key Bytes • 98% of sales don’t happen on the first contact—follow-up is essential.• Fear of being “pushy” and fear of rejection are the top two mindset blocks around follow-up.• 80% of sales happen between the 5th and 12th contact—most people quit after 2.• Follow-up is a form of service, not pressure—it shows interest and professionalism.• The phone is the most efficient tool in sales, yet it’s the most underused.• You can’t build trust without consistent, committed follow-up.• Stop assuming silence means disinterest—prospects are often just busy.• Confidence in your pricing comes from believing in your value. Chapters 00:01 – Introducing Wanda Allen and the importance of follow-up01:04 – From corporate banking to follow-up systems expert03:35 – Writing two books and why her first was retired06:07 – The real reason people don’t follow up: mindset and fear07:59 – How to prioritize follow-up and overcome procrastination11:00 – Why consistent follow-up beats your competition14:12 – Action over anxiety: staying out of your head during follow-up16:18 – The forgotten power of the phone in today’s sales world   Wanda Allen is an international speaker, coach, and corporate trainer. She's also the author of Follow Up Savvy and Follow Up Sales Strategies. Wanda had a 25 year corporate career where she held the position of Senior Vice President for 15 years. She has a strong skill set for developing systems and applied this skill to the follow up process. She's an expert in helping entrepreneurs, business owners, and sales professionals increase pipelines, improve sales performance, and strengthen relationships by developing strong follow up skills. Contact Wanda on their website, LinkedIn, or Facebook.

Featuring: Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, Palmer Advisors In episode 116, I sit down with Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A firm focused on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market. Clara and Ben break down what agency owners need to understand about selling their business, navigating deal structures, and preparing for acquisition—even if an exit isn’t on the immediate horizon. We talk about why Palmer was founded, the major shifts in deal terms over the last few years, and why so many agency founders are choosing to stay on post-acquisition. They also share candid insights into common red flags that signal an agency isn’t ready to sell—and what to do about it. We dive into how niching (especially by industry) impacts valuation, what kinds of agencies are in high demand, and how AI and proprietary tools may influence future multiples. Whether you’re dreaming of an exit, fielding buyer interest, or just want to understand how your agency is valued, this episode pulls back the curtain on the M&A process and what today’s buyers really want. Key Bytes • Palmer Advisors focuses on M&A for service-based businesses.• The agency market is evolving with new deal structures.• Cultural fit is crucial in agency acquisitions.• Founders should not exit at their peak performance.• Timing is key when going to market for an exit.• Having a strong leadership team is essential for agency sales.• Niche agencies are more attractive to buyers.• Understanding EBITDA is vital for agency owners.• Deal structures can be creative and flexible.• The future of M&A looks promising with technology advancements. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites01:47 The Formation of Palmer Advisors03:35 Reflections on the First Year05:32 Understanding Agency M&A Dynamics09:23 Identifying Readiness for Exit13:28 The Importance of Owner Involvement16:02 The Value of Niching in M&A19:09 Demystifying M&A Terminology23:19 Future Trends in M&A25:11 The Role of IP and Technology in Valuation28:34 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall are the founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A advisory firm built specifically for founders of service-based businesses. With a focus on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market (typically $1–10M in EBITDA), Clara and Ben bring a modern, founder-first approach to buying, selling, and valuing businesses. They’ve quickly built a reputation for their strategic deal-making, brutally honest readiness assessments, and commitment to crafting win-win outcomes that align both financial and cultural goals. Clara leads as CEO, bringing a background in corporate retail and fitness, while Ben heads up M&A with a traditional finance foundation. Together, they’re reshaping what agency exits can—and should—look like. Contact Ben and Clara on LinkedIn or on the Palmer Advisors website.