In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue through The Dark Night of the Soul (Book Two, Chapters 19–20). They reflect on St. John’s 10-step “mystic ladder” of divine love—from turn to burn—blending scripture, lived experience, and Andrew’s upcoming 12-hour overnight performance, Dark Night. Together they explore perseverance, the quiet work of desire, and how growth unfolds through trust, consistency, and showing up.
Book II chapters 19-20
00:48 Discussing the Mystic Ladder of Divine Love
01:22 Exploring the First Steps: Languish and Swoon
04:35 Seeking and the Journey Up the Ladder
18:53 The Role of Teachers and Guides
24:49 The Struggle and Joy of Progression
36:00 The Importance of Process Over Performance
38:57 The Power of Repetition
40:29 The Mystic Ladder: A Metaphor for Human Endeavor
42:35 Steps of the Mystic Ladder
49:16 The Final Steps: Hold and Burn
51:18 The Journey of Transformation
01:09:52 The Good Place and the Mystic Ladder
01:15:30 Final Thoughts
Related Links
Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com
Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com
In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue through The Dark Night of the Soul (Book Two, Chapters 16–18). They reflect on John’s “secret, secure ladder” and what it means to be led where sight can’t go, when memory fades, senses are stilled, and understanding grows quiet. Through scripture and lived experience, they explore unknowing as a path of love, learning to trust God’s hidden guidance more than effort, explanation, or control.
Book II chapters 16-18
00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast
02:14 The Essence of Spiritual Progress
07:17 Exploring the Poem: Dark Night of the Soul
16:56 The Concept of Beginner's Mind
22:31 The Universal Path of Emptiness and Fulfillment
33:48 The Descent and Dark Night of the Soul
41:14 Theological Constructs and Free Floating Journeys
58:36 The Role of Love and Community in the Dark Night
01:03:34 Final Thoughts
Related Links
Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com
Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com
In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue their journey through The Dark Night of the Soul, exploring Book Two, Chapters 12-15. They reflect on the image of the Divine who moves slowly, at the pace of love not efficiency, and what it means to walk with such a God through stillness, silence, and surrender. Drawing from scripture, lived experience, and the rhythm of everyday life, they unpack the difference between spiritual striving and divine timing.
Book II chapters 12-15
00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast
03:58 Personal Experiences and Vocational Ministry Challenges
21:46 Reflections on the Dark Night Live Performance
38:50 Facing Retirement and Vocational Calling
42:24 The Role of Presence in Vocational Ministry
48:43 The Three Mile an Hour God
58:40 Paul's Struggle to Articulate Spiritual Realities
01:06:57 The Pain and Glory of Ministry
01:12:08 Final Thoughts
Related Links
Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com
Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com
In this episode, Andrew and Mike press deeper into the dark night. Drawing on “hyperlinks” in the Bible between the book of Lamentations, the letter to the Corinthians, and the wilderness of Jesus’ temptation, they explore what it means to be a log thrown into the fire consumed so that love might be refined. Their conversation wrestles with surrender, endurance, and the paradox of active passivity: being carried more than striving, walking without sight, and trusting that in the process God is at work.
Book II chapters 8-11
00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast
02:02 Scriptural Engagement and Reflections
12:03 Metaphors and Spiritual Insights
23:10 The Role of Passivity in Spiritual Growth
27:37 Engaging with Spiritual Formation
34:47 The Parables and Indirectness of God
39:02 Jesus' Journey and Temptation
46:26 Personal Reflections and Burnout
55:02 The State of the World and Final Thoughts
Related Links
Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com
Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com
In this episode, Andrew and Mike dive into Book Two, Chapters 4–7 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. They explore themes of purgation, detachment, and the “poverty of spirit” that marks the threshold of transformation. Alongside scripture and lived stories, they wrestle with the experience of emptiness, aridity, and the dark fog that seems to blind the faculties of memory and desire. The conversation touches the stories of Jonah, Job, Jeremiah, and even jazz improvisation, drawing out a conception of God who does not always lift us out of the fire but instead meets us within it.
Book II chapters 4-7
00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast
01:12 Resonating Points in Chapter Four
02:43 The Beatitudes and Purgation
04:53 Transformative Memory and Eternal Apprehensions
32:36 The Art of Recovery in Dance and Life
37:58 Exploring the Three Kinds of Good
43:14 Fog and Divine Presence
01:02:27 The Great Undoing
01:08:48 Final Reflections and Future Directions
Related Links
Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com
Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com
In this episode, Andrew and Mike dive into St. John of the Cross’s teaching on the “dark night”— how dryness and emptiness can be the way of deepening love and union with the divine. Through personal stories and pastoral insight, they unpack the difference between active efforts and passive purifications, how to endure when praying feels numb, and practical ways to stay the course —examen, simple obedience, and quiet service—even in the darkness. Book II chapters 1-3 00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast02:43 Personal Reflections and Challenges03:13 The Concept of Fortitude11:01 The Spiritual Journey of Hafiz20:35 Reconciling Hardship and Divine Love32:30 Exploring the Appeal of Mysticism38:09 The Journey from Communication to Communion43:43 Endurance and the Dark Night of the Soul48:05 The Role of Pain and Suffering in Spiritual Growth55:07 The Importance of Endurance and Recognition01:04:44 Concluding Thoughts and ReflectionsRelated LinksDark Night Project: www.darknightlive.comNemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com
In this episode, Andrew and Mike explore Jonah’s descent as a living metaphor for the Dark Night of the Soul. Drawing from scripture, Hebrew insights, and personal stories, they unpack themes of purgation, endurance, stripping away, and the tension between punishment and transformation. The conversation wrestles with what it means to be swallowed by darkness, where God is in those moments, and how surrender and the choice to endure open the way forward.
Reading: Book I chapters 12-14
00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast
03:05 Exploring St. John of the Cross
07:44 Jonah and the Dark Night
09:51 The Descent of Jonah
12:19 Jonah's Prayer and Reflection
27:03 The Pregnant Fish and Spiritual Formation
32:16 The Significance of the Jonah Story
38:26 The Role of Spiritual Practices
47:31 The Dichotomy of Achievement and Spiritual Formation
01:01:42 Conclusion and Reflections
Related Links
Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com
Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com
In this episode, Andrew Nemr and Pastor Mike Freeman dive into Chapter 11 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. They discuss the transformative process of enduring spiritual darkness and emptiness as a pathway to deepening love and union with God. Andrew shares his experiences with preparing for his 12-hour overnight performance, while Mike highlights the passive nature of spiritual growth and the significance of enduring through life's challenges.Reading: Book I Chapters 10–1100:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast00:34 Exploring the Theme of Love in St. John's Work03:17 Discussing Chapter 11 of The Dark Night of the Soul09:52 The Beatitudes and Their Spiritual Significance15:03 The Process of Spiritual Growth and Humility21:23 Active vs. Passive Spiritual Practices33:33 The Crushing Process34:20 The Passive Phase35:21 Jesus' Silent Observation36:08 The Love of the Father36:45 Feeling Forsaken39:26 The Dark Night of the Soul43:25 The Metaphor of the Tree50:34 Paul's Contentment55:33 The Secret of Being Content01:02:04 Final Thoughts and ReflectionsRelated LinksDark Night Project: www.darknightlive.comNemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com
In this episode, Andrew Nemr and Mike Freeman continue their journey with Chapters 8–9 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross, delving into St. John of the Cross's concept of the Dark Night of the Soul and discussing Andrew's spiritual preparation for the presentation of Dark Night Live. They share personal reflections on sense deprivation, spiritual emptiness, and the importance of falling into aridity as it relates to the dark night of the soul.
Reading: Book I Chapters 8–9
00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast
00:33 Andrew's Retreat Experience
01:29 Understanding the Dark Night of the Soul
07:05 The Story of the Traveler and the Dragon
12:56 The Concept of 'I' in Spirituality
29:21 The Paradox of the Gospel
39:46 Avoiding Deep Intimacy
41:52 The Night of Sense
43:50 The Love of God
46:16 Relational Aspects of Faith
49:40 The Dark Night of the Soul
54:28 Spiritual Practices and Prayer
01:03:31 Community and Support
01:08:14 Reflecting on St. John of the Cross
Related Links
Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com
Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com
In this episode, Andrew Nemr and Mike Freeman continue their journey with Chapters 4–7 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross, exploring the hidden spiritual obstacles that are effectively stripped away in the Night – like spiritual pride and gluttony.
Reading: Book I Chapters 4–7
00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast
01:53 Greek Influences and Biblical References
04:09 Sins of the Flesh vs. Sins of the Spirit
05:21 Historical Anecdotes and Spiritual Lessons
20:13 The Challenge of Reading the Bible
26:12 Brother Lawrence and Practicing the Presence
32:27 The Dark Night of the Soul: A Universal Experience
48:13 The Hidden Nature of Spiritual Growth
52:44 Full Solar vs. Lunar Spirituality
In this episode of The Dark Night Podcast, tap dance artist Andrew Nemr and Pastor Mike Freeman delve into St. John of the Cross's 'Dark Night of the Soul.' They discuss the spiritual disorientation that occurs when the usual sources of comfort and orientation are stripped away, and how this experience, often misinterpreted as a negative one, can be a profound part of spiritual growth.
Reading: Introduction, Prologue, and Book I Chapters 1-3
00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast
01:42 Experiencing Disorientation and Isolation
07:44 Reflections on St. John of the Cross's Poem
11:46 Navigating Through Spiritual Darkness
23:07 The Journey from Spiritual Milk to Maturity
36:28 Exploring Psalm 22: A Deep Dive
38:05 Community and Isolation in Faith
39:35 The Passion of Christ: Reflections and Memories
41:31 Navigating Personal Darkness
49:25 The Role of Darkness in Spiritual Growth
01:09:26 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections
