Climbing the Mystic Ladder: St. John of the Cross’ 10 Steps

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Dark Night Podcast

Nemr Institute

12 episodes

21 hours ago

Join tap dance artist Andrew Nemr and pastor Mike Freeman as they explore Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. This common human experience strips away what we use to orient ourselves in the world, often leaving us feeling lost and confused-but also inviting us to endure. These conversations were part of Andrew's preparation for a 12-hour improvised tap dance performance. The podcast is part of the Dark Night Project presented by Nemr Institute and KalosWorks.org, made possible by generous partners and supporters.

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Climbing the Mystic Ladder: St. John of the Cross’ 10 Steps | Ep. 11

Dark Night Podcast

1 hour 17 minutes 54 seconds

2 weeks ago

Climbing the Mystic Ladder: St. John of the Cross’ 10 Steps | Ep. 11

In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue through The Dark Night of the Soul (Book Two, Chapters 19–20). They reflect on St. John’s 10-step “mystic ladder” of divine love—from turn to burn—blending scripture, lived experience, and Andrew’s upcoming 12-hour overnight performance, Dark Night. Together they explore perseverance, the quiet work of desire, and how growth unfolds through trust, consistency, and showing up.

Book II chapters 19-20

00:48 Discussing the Mystic Ladder of Divine Love

01:22 Exploring the First Steps: Languish and Swoon

04:35 Seeking and the Journey Up the Ladder

18:53 The Role of Teachers and Guides

24:49 The Struggle and Joy of Progression

36:00 The Importance of Process Over Performance

38:57 The Power of Repetition

40:29 The Mystic Ladder: A Metaphor for Human Endeavor

42:35 Steps of the Mystic Ladder

49:16 The Final Steps: Hold and Burn

51:18 The Journey of Transformation

01:09:52 The Good Place and the Mystic Ladder

01:15:30 Final Thoughts

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com