We're going to interact with people who are not ideal clients. But salespeople have trouble when they're afraid to disqualify a prospect. To say, okay, I'm no longer going to follow up with this person.

I've always viewed it a little like the game musical chairs that you played as a kid? You have a certain number of people going around, and a certain number of chairs. When the music stops, everybody scrambles to get a chair. If you don't have a chair, you're out, right?

I view prospecting that way in some respects. Where you have to, at some point, start to prune the list. You have to start to get rid of the people who are not likely to become clients. If you're afraid to do that, you will continue to leave the same number of people and chairs.

Jay: Yes.

David: And if none of them are buying, it's not going to work well.



David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing letting ideal clients know you're alive. Welcome back, Jay.

Jay: Hey, so good to be here, David. And I think this is, again, such an interesting topic. I find that I'm so caught up in the daily. I'm taking calls and the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And some of those ideal clients kind of go by the wayside sometimes.

David: Yeah. A lot of times we don't even know who they are until we first try to identify them. So, in a sense, the topic itself goes kind of deep. You can't know they're an ideal client until you know they're alive. Then you have to let them know that you're alive. Then you have to determine if they're an ideal client.

Jay: Yeah.

David: So there are actually a few steps in this.

Jay: Yeah, and I think that's such an important thing to know. You need to have a system, like you always have, of identifying those ideal clients. It's hard for me to really figure out if they're ideal up front. But I'll tell you one thing I can tell is when they're not ideal.

I was on the phone call with somebody yesterday. He's going to become a client. But I regret the relationship I know I'm going to have with him, because he's already so demanding. And I'm like, this guy's not ideal, but he's a customer. And so, how can I not sell him the product?

David: Yeah, that's a great question.

And it's harder for some than others, I think. You get to a certain point in your business or a certain point in your career or whatever and you weigh it. Well, I guess we all do that. We have to weigh it. How much of a pain is this person going to be? And what's my tolerance for pain essentially, right?

Jay: Yeah. Yeah.

David: But you're exactly right. You don't really know that necessarily upfront. So a lot of times when we're working with our clients, what we'll do is start with the people they think are likely to be their ideal clients. And whether that means in a certain geographic area or in a particular industry or in a certain sized company, if they're selling B2B, You can make some initial judgments based on who has been a good client for you in the past, and then say, okay, how can I get more people like that?

And then when you're introducing yourself to those people who meet those similar criteria, as you're having those conversations, you can then start to make those determinations about whether or not they are an ideal client, or if they just sort of fall in that general ecosphere of people who could potentially be ideal clients, but maybe aren't.

Jay: Yeah, exactly. And not just finding new ideal clients, turning your existing ideal clients into more business. Because if they were ideal the first time, if you can keep that to be a generating ongoing revenue source and relationship... Man, I'd rather do that every day than deal with the other type ...

When we talk about the idea of effective sales follow-up, what does that mean? It’s effective in terms of making sure that we’re on the same page with the person, making sure that our conversations are moving forward, making sure that their questions are being answered, and ultimately getting to a decision.

Are we going forward with this? Are we not? And if so, when is that going to happen?



David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing effective sales follow-up. How much is too much? Welcome back, Jay.

Jay: Thank you, David. Such an important question. And again, something that I struggle with. You know, I have a customer management system, and it shows me I talked to them three days ago.

And it comes up on my tasks and it says it's time to talk to them. And I find every time I go through this emotional thing. Are they going to think I'm bugging them too soon? And a lot of times I'll say, let's give them three more days or let's give them two more days because I guess I'm not ready to talk to them or I'm afraid I'll be a bother.

David: Yes, and you're not alone. Because it's pretty much impossible to know exactly how often to call any one given prospect, let alone all of them. It's not like there's one rule where you say you must call every other day or you must call every three days or every week or whatever your thing is. I mean, there are rules that have been put in place for salespeople to do that, and maybe it's not a terrible thing, but a system like that pretty much guarantees that you're going to be wrong as often as you're right.

And so, if you understand that going in, one of the things that I think it's important to recognize is that people are going to sort of telegraph how annoying you're being, or how often they want to be in touch, want to have you in touch. And if you ask them more directly, they'll be a lot more inclined to give you an honest answer.

If we make up our minds that we're going to contact this person every so many days, and that person doesn't want to hear from us that often, then obviously we're setting ourselves up for failure.

So a lot of times, if we can find out from the prospect roughly how often they would like for us to be in touch with them, and it's easier to do with established clients, where you know them, they know you. With prospects, it's not as easy.

But in the early stages with a prospect, we need to be in touch more frequently in order to get to decisions about qualification levels. Are they actually qualified to buy from us? Do they have the need, the desire, the money, the budget, the willingness to spend, the interest?

Do they have any of those things? And if we can't determine that in the first conversation, we need to have a second conversation. But of course, their level of interest in that first conversation will also help us to determine, well, how much time should I give this person?

And when I think about how much is too much, one of the things that I've seen a lot, and I saw it myself, in my own behaviors in the earlier stages of my sales career, and then in a lot of other people along the way, is that since we can't know how much is too much, many of us in sales tend to err on the side of too little contact rather than too much.

And we talked about being a pest in a previous podcast. I don't want to be a pest. Therefore, I'm not going to pick up the phone and call. And the problem with that is that if we're not in touch with them, when they're ready to move forward, then someone else is going to get that business.

So we have to find this balance of, yes, I don't want to be a pest, but also I'm not going to abandon this person so that somebody else can get in there and get that business while I've be...

If you want to create desire in sales, it has to be about them. Their wants, their needs. The things that they're looking to accomplish from the relationship, because that's where all their desire comes from.



David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will discuss creating desire with your communication in sales. Welcome back, Jay.

Jay: Hey, David. It's great to be here, as always. read this title and I've been thinking about it, but I'd love to hear your perspective up front. What do you mean creating desire with your communication?

David: Well, I think if we're In the business of conveying value and providing products and ultimately selling something to someone else, the only way that happens is if there is enough desire created in the other person to make them want to move forward. Without the desire to move forward, it's never going to happen.

It's kind of a funny word, particularly in sales. We tend not to use words like desire a whole lot. We tend to think in terms of qualification and segmentation, and we keep it all very clinical. But without the component of wanting it, if the prospect or client does not want what we're selling, then absolutely nothing is going to happen.

And the only way that desire is either created or channeled is generally with our communication. Now, if we're offering something that they already want, then the desire is already built in. But if not, if they don't see all the benefits, if they don't see what it can do for them, then they might not be feeling it enough yet to pull the trigger.

And at that point, it becomes our job to say, all right what do I need to do in terms of my communication with this person to help either create some of that desire or ideally uncover the desire that's already buried inside there?

Jay: Mmm. That's great. I think about my own sales process. One of the things we do in our company is we offer a free consultation, and that's my job. I give the consultation.

And there's nothing I hate more than when somebody says free consultation, and what they really meant was free sales call, right? And so the minute you get them on the phone, they're pitching you their product, and I don't.

I listen, I ask questions, I tell them about their circumstances, I tell them what steps they can take to make their life better. And I always start the call saying, "just so you know, this is not a sales call. My goal is to give you the information that you need."

It never fails. I've never had a call in my life, and I've done probably a thousand of these. At the end of the call, they say, "well, how much do you charge for these services? And I'd like to move forward with you."

I never, never tried to sell them on anything. And to me, if you can do it, you can't do it with every situation. But to me, that's just ideal. They're asking me how much I charge. I've created that desire in them without one word that sounds like a sales pitch.

David: Right. Because if you go immediately into sales mode, if you start out with that, if you lead with a sales pitch, it's not going to create desire in anyone. Because a lot of the desire that we're going to be able to uncover in our prospects is going to come from the answers we get to the questions that we ask them.

And so, you know, the whole diagnostic approach to sales, just like the diagnostic approach in medicine. First, you have to examine the patient to find out where it hurts. Examine, and then diagnose, and then and only then can you prescribe, right?

So you have to examine the patient, find out where it hurts, find out what their needs are, find out if they need what we have to offer. If they don't have a need for what we have to offer, then yeah,

Last week's discussion about The Zero Accountability Salesperson seemed to resonate with a lot of people. And the biggest questions I got were related to how to fix this. How can I help myself and/or my salespeople to be more conscious of the actions we need to take, and to take those actions on a consistent basis?



Hi and welcome back. In our last episode, we touched on a lot of important points related to what I would call The Zero Accountability Salesperson Culture:

Most businesses don’t deliberately create a zero accountability culture. It just happens when systems and processes are missing.
When salespeople say things like, "It’s going great, I'm having a lot of good conversations. I’ve got a lot of people in the pipeline," that tells you nothing. Without metrics, it’s just wasted words.
Accountability is not punishment. It’s about providing clarity on what’s working, what’s not, and how to fix it.

If you haven't thoroughly reviewed that episode, I encourage you to go back and check it out now.
But today, I'd like to give you a quick, bullet-pointed list on the things you can do right now to start creating a culture of accountability for yourself and your sales team.
To get started:


✅ Start with one key metric. Don’t overwhelm your team. Begin by tracking a single activity, like the number of new targets acquired or prospects qualified in or out each week. In our Total Market Domination program, we have an Activity/Results Audit that our clients use to track the ten most important activities that lead to sales. But even starting out small will begin to create a sense of accountability for yourself and your people.
✅ Define what counts. Be clear about what “initiating contact” means in your organization. Making a phone call and not getting an answer doesn’t count if no contact is initiated. Real contact, conversations, and interactions count. The rest is meaningless.
✅ Add one metric at a time. As you start getting consistent application on the first key metric, introduce the next one that flows from there. What are steps you and your salespeople need to take to move a new prospect from total stranger to paying client? Those are the activities that need to be taken and tracked in your business.
✅ Create a cadence of accountability. Establish a weekly rhythm where salespeople report on the metrics you require. Make it consistent, like a drumbeat. Miss just one or two and the whole thing will be forgotten in no time.
✅ Build accountability into your systems. Use your CRM or even a simple shared Google Doc to capture and share activity. The easier it is to track, the less resistance you’ll face.
✅ Focus on metrics that matter. Don’t waste time with busywork stats that don’t impact sales outcomes. There are a lot of those, so be sure to measure only the activities that truly drive sales results.
✅ Link activity to outcomes. Help salespeople understand how improving even one single metric (like initiating new contacts) drives the next step (like getting those prospects qualified in our out as quickly as possible.) When you do this correctly, accountability feels more like a reward than a punishment.
✅ Frame accountability as support. Make sure your team understands this isn’t about a lack of trust. It's about you helping them to systematically identify and eliminate the bottlenecks that keep them from selling up to their potential.
✅ Stay consistent. Don’t let reporting slide over time. The moment accountability becomes optional, the culture of zero accountability will come roaring back to life.
✅ Adapt for individuals. High performers might require less oversight, but everyone benefits from clarity. Make sure everyone in your organization knows that you're there to help them thrive.

The zero accountability salesperson is at a big disadvantage. Selling is all about being able to produce. And the only way you're able to produce is if whoever is doing the selling has some level of accountability, whether it's to themselves or to a sales manager, or to your spouse, whoever it is, right?

If you get home from work, and you didn't sell anything as a salesperson, you might get in more trouble at home than you got in at work.

So accountability is always big.



David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist and I discuss the zero accountability sales person.

Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to see you. Zero accountability salesperson. What does that look like in a sales team?

David: Salesperson? Salespeople? It's not pretty, man. It is not pretty. And it's nothing that anyone deliberately sets out to do. In most sales organizations, the problem is that the company itself does not have the systems and processes in place to allow their salespeople to become more accountable to anything.

I mean, a lot of times salespeople are held accountable for sales. Are you hitting your numbers? Are you generating the sales that you need to generate? But if they're not tracking other things, then they really have no idea what it is that's going to get them to the numbers that they really need to reach.

Kevin: So how does that lack of accountability affect the overall sales performance of the team?

David: Well, it's not good because it's just erratic. It's all over the place. You'll have some salespeople who are very good and very consistent because that's the way they're wired, and you'll have other salespeople who are all over the place.

And the reason I thought this was a good topic to have, is that I was having a conversation with someone earlier today, someone who's considering joining our Total Market Domination program, and she was talking about the fact that she's got a number of salespeople in her organization, and she doesn't feel like they're all sort of on the same page.

They're not doing the same things. And when I started talking to her and asking her about what sort of accountability was in place, she was sad to admit that there wasn't a whole lot of it.

And what happens when you're in this situation, as a business owner or as a sales manager, if you find that you're having conversations with your salespeople and you're saying to them, so what's going on?

How's everything going? And they say, oh yeah, it's going great. Having a lot of great conversations. Got a bunch of people on the fence or people I'm working, got a lot of leads I'm working and everything like that.

That tells you nothing, right? It tells you nothing.

It's feel good talk, but it's wasted words. Because until you are able to provide any sort of metrics, any sort of numbers, any sort of accountability that turns those comments into something real, you just don't have anything that you can even help them with.

Kevin: I think a lot of times salespeople have their methods. They love their methods. That's their tried and true, understandably so. Is it hard to get sales teams on the same page when it comes to accountability when people want to kind of do it their own way?

David: Well, it certainly can be, and if you've got a sales person who is a high performer, that person may just want to do it their own way, and they might not be open to a whole lot of conversation or a whole lot of interpretation

Kevin: And you might not worry about it.

David: Exactly. And that's very true. And I'm not saying that you should have different standards for different people in the organization. I'm just talking about what actually happens in the wor...

There's always going to be a bottleneck in sales. There's always going to be something that is not working as smoothly or as ideally as it could or should. And our job is to constantly identify, what is it now? What is it today? Now that I got this other thing fixed, what's the new thing that's slowing us down?



David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist and I discuss your biggest bottleneck to sales. Welcome back Kevin.

Kevin: Great to see you, David. And this is definitely one that I think anybody can relate to no matter what business you're in, but you're talking about your biggest bottleneck to sales.

Let's not bury the lead. What is it?

David: In every business there is generally, more than one bottleneck, but there's one big one that is going to keep you from hitting the next bottleneck, or the one after that, or the one after that.

And if you don't tackle that first one correctly and get rid of it, then you never get to down the line.

It's like an assembly line. If you think about a factory that's manufacturing something and there's an assembly line, if there's a problem at the first station in the assembly line, everything stops, right?

Because you can't move to step two until you've done step one. And so for most of us, when it comes to sales, there is a bottleneck.

And it might not be at the very beginning. It might be towards the middle, or it might even be near the end.

But until you identify what your biggest bottleneck is, you cannot apply the appropriate resources necessary --the time, the energy, and the focus --to blast that thing out of there, so that you can then move forward with everything you need to do.

Kevin: All right, so you couldn't just give me the one thing. That's fine. Can you give me some of the more common bottlenecks that you see when it comes to sales?

David: Well, sure. When you're in a selling situation, what are the biggest bottlenecks you run into? Well, I'm having trouble reaching the person that I need to reach, right?

They're not responding to me. Or some people, toward the end of the sales process, they get right up until the point of closing and then they choke.

So that's an example of a bottleneck where if you don't get that one nailed, you can go all the way through a sales process, then get to that point and then not be able to close the sale and everything is kind of wasted.

So looking at the steps along the way, what are you going to look at?

You're going to look at the people that you're interacting with, the conversations that you're having with them, the timeframe that it takes you to get them from point to point. Because for a lot of people, that is a big one.

Not being able to set a pace, set a tempo that allows you to be able to get to that sale sooner rather than later, that could be a big bottleneck for people.

A lot of times we have an idea of how we would like the sales process to go. But if the client has a different idea, we're going to have to follow what they're going to be willing to go along with.

So in those situations, if we say, alright, I'm going to try to do everything I can here to advance the process to get them to the next step.

Maybe it's just a matter of, in the promotional products industry, will they send me the art?

They may have agreed to the sale, they may have agreed to the quantities, they may have agreed to the colors and the Pantone color matches and the tight registration.

They've agreed to all that. And you can't get them to send the art. That's really frustrating. And it can be a bottleneck that holds up everything.

And these bottlenecks that I'm referring to are the th...

It's one of those nuances that when you're transforming the leverage points in your business, the prequalification follow up is different than the post qualification follow up, but they are both very important leverage points.



David: Hi. Welcome back in today's episode, cohost. Kevin Rosenquist and I discuss transforming the leverage points in your business. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Hey, David. Great to see you. I'm excited to find out what you mean by this. So can you just start by sort of talking about what you mean when you refer to leverage points in a business?

David: Yeah. I think particularly for salespeople and business owners, there are certain specific leverage points that make a huge difference when you're interacting with clients, and a lot of it starts with who you're going after. You know, just the targeting aspect of it.

And a lot of people will take anyone who can fog a mirror, you know, they'll take anybody who stumbles in the door. And if you want to be a little more proactive about things, and if you want to really leverage that aspect of it, just the targeting part of it, that's one of those small hinges that swings big doors.

And so. When we look at leverage points, that's a really good solid first one. Because you could spend time going after a certain group of people in a particular niche or a particular market location and get to a lot of the wrong people and waste an enormous amount of time just by doing that.

So one of the things that we do with our clients is we look at, okay, what are the biggest leverage points that we can go after? Tackle those upfront so that our clients are able to get more done in less time and earn more money while they're doing it.

Kevin: Okay. So I'm guessing there's multiple leverage points that you might refer to.

How could a business owner identify where they need help? What leverage points are being underutilized or need to be transformed?

David: A lot of it, you can figure it out based on what problems you're having. If you are interacting with a lot of poor quality prospects or clients, that's a pretty good indication that it has to do with your targeting.

If you're getting to the right people --in other words, if you're getting to people who have the ability to spend a lot of money with you --and they're not converting, then you have to look at it and say, okay, well what am I doing wrong?

What am I saying to these people that is getting them not to buy? And a lot of times, salespeople go into sales situations and they're just winging it. They're just saying the things that they normally say, or they're saying things that they think are likely to work.

And if it works for you consistently, then that's great. You've probably got something that works. But if you find that you're interacting with a lot of the right people, but you're not closing those sales or you're not able to move the sales process forward fast enough.

Like if it takes a lot longer to close your clients than it should, that's an indication that it's probably not related to the prospects at that point. It's probably related to what you're saying to them or the ways that you're saying it to them.

Kevin: Can you share an example of a leverage point that when improved can have a dramatic effect on sales?

David: Yeah. Well, it's really the things that we're talking about and things that we've talked about in previous podcasts. If you think in terms of the MVPs that we've discussed in the past, the MVPs of marketing and sales, what's the message that I'm communicating?

If you've got an okay marketing message and you're communicating it to a high value prospect, you could really be wasting an opportunity.

Here's a quick message for printers and promo product distributors who would like to grow their businesses and dominate their markets starting in as little as 22 minutes a day.


If you own a such a business, even if it's a small one, that may sound impossible to you, but give me just 45 seconds and I'll explain why it's not.

First, it never occurs to most business owners in our industry that they could dominate their market. For that reason, they never even try.

Instead, they set small goals and often struggle to achieve even those.

Second, even if it DOES occur to them, they don't know how to do it. They don't know the exact steps. They don't know what to do. But with the right steps, they can start small, and grow and dominate from there.

Third, 22 minutes a day. What's up with that? Well, that's the difference between doing nothing each day and doing something.

Most business owners spend roughly zero minutes a day focused on market domination. So even a small amount of focus, like the sun through a magnifying glass, can make a huge difference.

If you'd like to learn more, go to TopSecrets.com/22. That's TopSecrets.com/22.
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David: Hi, and welcome back to today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist and I discuss the lead quality matrix. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to be here. Excited to chat about this, because I don't know what you're talking about.



Kevin: So what is this lead quality matrix and why is it important?

David: Well, a lot of times in my work with clients, we're talking about leads. "I need more leads" and "I got to get more leads," everybody's always talking about leads, which is very important. But as we're getting these leads in the door, sometimes it's a good idea to say, "okay, well who do I actually want to bring in?"

Now, in our work with clients, we are very big on qualification. We want to make sure that the leads that we bring in are being qualified as quickly as possible. Because if they're not qualified, we don't really want to spend a whole lot of time interacting with them.

So when we're bringing new leads through the door, obviously we're going to try to disqualify the not so great ones in the early stages.

But also when we're putting stuff out into the market, whether it's a social media post or an email or we're meeting somebody for the first time at a networking function, whatever it is, we want to try to get an idea of the quality of the lead as early in the process as possible.

When I talk about the lead quality matrix, if you just sort of imagine a graph. And going across the bottom is Willingness to Communicate. Are they willing to communicate? And so the farther you go to the right, the more willing they are to communicate with you and then going up and down is money to spend. Do they have money to spend?

If they have a lot of money to spend, that goes up. If they don't, it's at the bottom. So if you think of that as being the matrix. You start off in the lower left hand corner, you've got people who have no money to spend who are not communicative. That's kind of easy, right?

Kevin: Yeah. Those aren't ideal.

David: Right. We know what we're doing with those people. We're going to jettison them as soon as humanly possible. In the upper right, we have those who are highly communicative and who have money to spend. So what do we call those people? Like ideal clients, I would say, right, high quality leads. This is the sweet spot. This is where I want to be. This is what I'm looking for, right?

Kevin: Right.

David: So that's kind of obvious. What's less obvious, and in some ways more interesting is the other corners, right? If you look at some of the other corners and you say, okay here are a bunch of people who are extremely communicative. They'll communicate all day, they'll talk to you till they're blue in the face, but they have no money to spend. Huge time wasters.

Many people will go to networking functions and talk to people like this for hours on end, weeks at a time, because they never take the time to just do the simple math on it and say, okay, highly communicative, unable to spend. So that's an interesting group of people.

Then we have the other extreme, which is people who have a lot of money to spend, but they're just not talking to you. So if they have a lot of money to spend, if it's a big client, big company, very self-important, but they won't return your phone calls, and they won't talk to you... You decide how long you want to deal with that sort of thing.

Kevin: Yeah.

David: And those are just the four most extreme points. But it really is obvious when you look at it like that.

Kevin: And we've all chased the white whale or whatever that has all the money and you're wanting it so bad to get them as a client. Because you know it'll be lucrative. But I don't know. Those people tend to be very difficult to deal with too if yo...

When it comes to getting referrals proactively, that's another thing people do as well. They think they have to wait until they have already sold something and the client is happy. And that's not the case. I mean, when you're talking about asking about referrals, you can do that at any stage, and at every stage, I mean, ask always, right? Why not?



David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist and I discuss the topic of getting referrals proactively. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Great to be here, David. How you been?

David: Been doing great. and you?

Kevin: I can't complain. I'm doing well. Yeah, this is a good one. This is a good topic because anybody in any business can get a lot from more referrals. So, why do so many businesses sit around, waiting for referrals, instead of actively generating them.

David: I have no idea.

Kevin: Oh, thanks for joining us..

David: No, I do have an idea. Because I think we've probably all done it at one point or other over the years. The reason that I really think it's important to talk about referrals is so often, I mean, I've done presentations at trade shows all over the country and actually around the world.

I mean like Australia and in Europe. I mean, I've done this with a lot of people, a lot of times over a lot of years, and very often when I talk to people and I ask them the biggest way that they grow their business, they tell me referrals.

And when I hear that, I think, "okay, that's great, but how much business are you leaving on the table?"

Right? Because a lot of times they are doing exactly what you just described. They're just sitting around waiting for those referrals to come in. Now, they don't say that.

They won't tell you that. Right? What they'll say is, yeah, referrals. They got a lot of business from referrals. And I'm like, that's great.

And when you get business as a result of referrals, just because you're doing a good job and somebody hears about you, that is wonderful. But that is also extremely reactive. So that's why we're talking about, in this podcast, the idea of doing it proactively.

Because when you add that component to your referral-getting, you can very likely double or triple the results that you're getting as a result of just waiting around to see who shows up at your door.

Kevin: Is it a mindset shift that needs to happen to get better at asking for referrals or feel more comfortable asking for referrals?

David: It could very well be a mindset shift. It could be that it hasn't even occurred to people, right? It's like, okay, referrals are like a bonus. I get referrals. I'm happy when I get them, and I don't think about them.

But when you're looking to grow proactively, you need to think in terms of all the different methods that you're using to make that happen.

So if I'm doing any sort of outreach, whether it's social media, whether it's on the phone, whether it's emails, whatever it is that you're doing. You say, okay, well how can I do more of this?

And when it comes to referrals, a lot of times people say, oh, well, that's when stuff comes in. But it's like the old saying, I think it was Zig Ziglar who said, don't wait for your ship to come in if you haven't sent one out. I always love that quote.

Kevin: Really good.

David: And so, yeah. So if you're looking to get referrals, what are you doing to make that happen? It's just like anything else.

Social media. If you post something on social media and somebody responds to you, you've initiated a conversation. You don't have to wait for someone else to initiate a referral. You can do it more proactively.

So yeah,

Here's why tariffs aren't the problem. Because there's always someone who's buying. Sometimes it's harder to find them. Sometimes it's easier to find them. So if, as a result of tariffs or anything else, it's going to be harder to find people, we understand that. But it doesn't mean that business is over and it doesn't mean that we can just sit and stew, because that just doesn't work.



David: Hi. Welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist, and I'll be discussing the fact that tariffs are not the problem. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to to see you, David. How you been?

David: Been doing great. Great to see you as well.

Kevin: Yeah. We're talking about a topic that is in the news a little bit these days. You introduced the topic as tariffs aren't the problem. What do you mean by that?

David: Yeah. I mean, if you're watching the media, you would think they are, but...

Kevin: Yeah, I would say so.

David: What I mean by that, and I'm not saying they're not a problem. What I'm saying is they're not THE problem. Okay, difference in the title. Tariffs aren't the problem. Okay?

The reason this came up is I was having a conversation with someone in the promotional products industry who was talking about some of the issues that she was dealing with, and she mentioned the tariffs, and how the tariffs really had her very concerned.

And I said, well, it's understandable because it creates a level of uncertainty that people are generally not happy with. I said,

Kevin: Sure.

David: How many orders have you actually lost as a result of the tariffs? And she said, well, none. I'm like, okay. Well that's a good start, right?

If you haven't lost any orders so far as a result of it, that's a great way to start. And we just talked about the fact that everyone is dealing with this, everyone in the United States, anyone is dealing with this. And so, we're on an even playing field with any competitors, right? Because any competitors that we have are likely dealing with this as well.

When we focus on things that are not the problem, like the thing that's actually keeping us from getting clients or getting reorders, or getting referrals, when we focus on those things, we're going to be a lot more productive in terms of being able to accomplish more things in less time, without focusing on the things that are not the immediate problem for us.

Kevin: I mean, are business owners using tariffs or other external factors as as an excuse, if maybe they're having poor sales or things like that?

David: Probably not consciously, I don't think they're consciously using it as an excuse. But it's easy to see it happen. And it's not just tariffs. Anytime anyone is concerned about the growth of their business, not being able to get enough new orders through the door, not able to get enough new customers through the door.

Whenever they're not doing that, they're looking for reasons. And when you think of it logically, you'll look at the reasons that are actually happening. Well, what are the reasons this is happening? But when there are any sort of scapegoats in the market, people are likely to look at them, or point to them, or express concerns about them.

Very often the concerns are about the things that could happen, that might happen, that could potentially happen, as opposed to what is actually slowing them down right now?

Kevin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think, it's dangerous to blame outside forces, like tariffs, instead of addressing in ternal issues. Because if you do that, you're going to potentially either ignore or downplay maybe some internal issues that you might have within your company. Is that a fair assessment?

David: Yeah,

It’s no fun when clients shop your ideas. If you ever came up with a brilliant idea for a promotion, only to have a prospect think it over, say they’d get back to you, but then ghost you and buy it from someone cheaper, you know the pain of being the unpaid consultant in the room.

Being the brains behind a competitor’s sale is not ideal.

You’re the one who did the work, thought it through, created the ideas, sourced the products, and made the recommendations only to have someone else place the order and cash the check.

What’s up with that?
Why are some ideas purchased immediately, while others are stolen, ghosted, shopped around, or just ignored completely?
That’s what we’ll explore in today’s episode.



If your best ideas keep ending up on someone else’s commission report, you may think you have a pricing problem. But it’s more likely you have a positioning problem.

And it starts with the way you build out the experience of doing business with you.
You're Not Just Selling Products—You're Selling a Process and an Experience
You already know that prospects and clients can buy promotional products from ANY of a never-ending lineup of distributors, both online and off.

That’s not what sets you apart.

What sets you apart is the experience you create for them, from your First Contact through every other aspect of dealing with you and your organization. This includes:

The clarity you bring to the project
The confidence they feel in your guidance and
The relief of not having to think through all the moving parts themselves

Those are just a few of the differentiators, and none of them happen by accident.

Instead, they’re the result of:

The Messaging you use to position yourself as a valued resource, instead of just another product peddler.
The marketing Vehicles you use to reach, impact and motivate recipients to get the desired response from them, and of course…
The People you are proactively choosing to engage with. Not just anyone, but those who are less likely to shop and more likely to buy.

If you don’t have those three pieces firmly dialed in: Your Messaging, your Vehicles, and your People, then the right experiences are far less likely to happen.
Why the Experience You Create Beats Product Alone Every Time
Let me ask you this. What does it feel like to work with you?

Years ago, salespeople had a much easier time getting away with selling features and benefits. “Here are the features of what the product is, and here are the benefits of what the product does for you.”

But in the information age, that doesn’t begin to cover it.

A spec sheet can do it adequately. They don’t need you for that.

So what are your best clients actually buying from you?

More often than not, it goes way beyond features and benefits. It also goes way beyond branded merchandise. It’s:

The confidence they get from the recommendations you make
The trust they have in your ability to deliver what you promise
The experience they have when interacting with you

Ultimately, it’s the emotion they feel as you bring all that together for them, taking the stress off their plate and knowing you’ll make them look like a star to their target audience.

It’s very difficult to shop that, because so few businesses deliver it consistently.

But that’s what they’re buying from you. Clarity. Confidence, and Certainty.

If your messaging doesn’t communicate that, then your value is invisible.

Without that, you end up with people asking for ideas, shopping them around, and awarding the business to the lowest bidder.

Want to stop undercharging and get paid what you're worth? In our last episode, we talked about the dangerous disconnect between effort and results. How being busy isn’t the same as being profitable, and why aligning your actions with your outcomes is the only sustainable way to grow.

But what happens when you do align your actions…
You do deliver real value…
And you’re still not making what you feel you're worth?

That’s what we’re getting into today. It's a big blind spot related to pricing and undercharging.

So if you already know your work is worth more than what you’re charging for it, this episode could be the game-changer you didn’t even know you needed.


The Hidden Problem: Undercharging Isn’t Just About Numbers
Most business owners don’t consciously undercharge for their services.
No one wakes up in the morning thinking, “How can I leave money on the table today?”

But undercharging is not usually about neglect. It’s also not about generosity.

More often than not, undercharging is related to fear.

Fear of losing to lowball competitors.
Fear of being seen as too expensive or greedy.
Fear of not getting the order.

It's also about perception: Their own perception, and the market’s perception.

Many people base their pricing on what they think their clients can afford… or what competitors are charging… or worse, what a particularly cheap prospect once told them they were worth.

But consider this:
Pricing isn’t just math. It’s strategy.
If your price doesn’t reflect your expertise, your results, and the transformation you create for your clients, it’s not just undervaluing your work.

It’s sending your market a message that says: “The work I do isn’t really worth all that much.”
Your Pricing = Your Market Position
In business, price signals value.

So when you charge like a commodity, you get treated like a commodity. And when you price like a strategic partner, you tend to get treated like one.

It’s not just about numbers, it’s about how your prospects and clients see you.

Are you the kind of person they value and are grateful to work with?

Or are you just someone they’re trying to squeeze for discounts?

That gap often comes down to three things that many business owners tend to overlook:

How they define their work.
Who they present it to.
What they allow themselves to charge for it.

It’s not about buzzwords or branding jargon. It’s about clarity.

Are you describing your work in a way that makes prospects lean in or glaze over?
Are you putting it in front of people who already get the value—or those who need convincing?
And are you pricing it in a way that honors the transformation you deliver… or just typical industry pricing?

In a free market system, everyone gets to set their own pricing. We all get to decide.

By saying this, I’m not suggesting you should overcharge for the products and services you offer. I’m just encouraging you to consider what your time, effort, and life energy are worth to you when calculating your prices.
Clients Are Willing to Pay More When They Understand Why
You already know that in every market, there are price-shoppers who always make their buying decisions based solely on price.

They’ll get ten quotes. That means ten people will do all the work of pricing out the job, only to lose that order to the one person who is willing to work for the least amount of money.

Are those the people you want to be basing your pricing on?

Another important consideration is that in every market,

Busy doesn't equal profitable. We got a lot of great feedback from our last episode, in which we talked about how many business owners still cling to outdated methods that used to work, but don’t work anymore.



We addressed the hard truth that more of the wrong activity won’t fix a broken approach.

We looked at the reasons typical performers feel stuck, waiting things out, hoping for a turnaround that may never come…

And we pointed out how smart, focused professionals adapt and move forward now, in a way that differentiates them from less-profitable, average businesses.

Today, I’d like to pick up that conversation by talking about one of the biggest sources of frustration that I hear from business owners and salespeople across the board:

Why am I working so hard and still not making enough money?

If you're grinding all day, doing "everything you're supposed to do," but still not seeing results, you’re not lazy, and you’re not crazy.

But it’s likely you got caught in a trap that drains your time, energy, and income.

I’m talking about…
The Effort Trap: Busy ≠ Profitable
At one time or another, we’ve probably all bought into the idea that if we just work harder, the results will come.

More hours, calls, emails, and outreach.

In some cases, it works. But not always.

More effort does not automatically equal more income. Sometimes it just means more exhaustion.

You can do all the things you think you need to do: chase leads, follow up, create quotes, juggle accounts and still feel stuck.

Because it’s not always about how much you’re doing.

It can also be about how well you do those things, and how well you communicate your value.

Effort alone doesn’t create income.

So it’s not just actions that create value in the eyes of your clients, and revenue for your business. Only aligned actions can do that.

When that alignment is missing? You can work 24/7 doing everything you think you need to do, and still come up short in the money department.
The Illusion of Progress: Mistaking Motion for Momentum
And that leads into the second trap—the illusion of progress.

This is where the to-do list becomes a badge of honor, and the packed calendar provides a false sense of security.

It feels productive, but at the end of the month, you still might not have enough in the bank.

Because movement alone is not progress.

It’s like the rocking chair, or the hamster wheel. It may keep you moving, but it doesn’t get you anywhere.

Same thing with being busy. It doesn’t guarantee forward momentum.

And that can be extremely demoralizing.

You’re checking all the boxes, showing up, doing the work… and you may still feel stuck in the same place.

That’s where burnout sets in, doubts creep in, and even really good people can start to wonder whether all of it is worthwhile.

Because even when you do great work, you still might not get paid based on your worth.
Value vs. Revenue: When Great Work Goes Unrecognized
Let’s say you’re someone who’s not just spinning your wheels.

You’re producing results, making your clients happy, and solving real problems for them.

If your income still isn’t where you feel it needs to be, it’s one of the most frustrating disconnects in business:

Doing valuable work… but not being paid in proportion to that value.

There’s a reason this happens.

It’s because the market doesn’t reward effort. And it doesn’t always reward value.

In fact, it’s more likely to reward perceived value and perceived results.

Time for a shift in your business? There was a period of time when getting print and promotional product clients was a lot easier.

People loved and appreciated your work. They answered and returned your phone calls. They placed orders proactively. Sometimes they even referred enough new clients that your customer base practically grew all by itself. Sounds like a fantasy! But does that still happen?

It can. But nowadays? Not so much...



Today, too many people in our industry are fighting against reality. They're pounding away on activities that used to work, but don't work anymore. Instead of changing their actions, they blame the prospects, or the marketing method, or the economy, or the tariffs.

You'll see them complaining in industry groups, saying things like "People aren't answering their phones." "Social media's a waste of time." "No one's returning phone calls." "Networking events are worthless." "This economy stinks!"

And while people may be experiencing those things, the people who are making money in our industry right now are not doing any of that. They know that all the whining, blame-shifting and scape-goating is not going to fix problems that are partially caused, at least,  by taking wrong or ineffective actions that no longer work.

So instead, they're adapting their approach, refocusing their efforts, eliminating ineffective tactics, and engaging in the tested, proven, strategic methods that work right now.

You know, the gap between where you are right now and where you want to be is not going to magically fill itself. And you can't count on the actions that used to fill those gaps to continue to do so in the future. Because they won't. They can't. It is literally impossible.

Of course, very few motivated people will sit around willingly and do nothing, as the things that used to work for them continue to lose their effectiveness. But very often, they just double down and try to do more of it with brute force effort. Putting in more time, more energy, making more calls, and overcoming more objections, while continuing to fall behind.

It's exhausting to watch, and it's even more exhausting if you have to do it!

So why doesn't that work?

Because taking ineffective actions more aggressively does not create the results you want.

Yes, in business, particularly when you're facing challenges, speed of implementation is critical. But that only works when you're taking the right actions in the right order.

Doing the wrong things faster won't get you to your goal. It's like speeding off in a racecar that's going in the wrong direction.

So while TYPICAL businesses try to fix the problem by running faster, working longer, pushing harder, and sacrificing more -- to try to make the hamster wheel turn faster, and faster, and faster, while still getting them nowhere -- smart, focused business owners are changing their approach to suit the times.

You probably already know that if your business is struggling, and you don't change your approach, your results cannot possibly change. It's like Einstein's definition of insanity, doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result. And since so much has changed in such a short period of time, you can't even expect the things that DID work well -- even a few months ago -- to work well now.

So what do you do?

Well, it's likely that if you knew what changes to make -- if you knew exactly what to do, and exactly how to fix it -- you would have done it by now, right? Because, who wouldn't?

What I'm talking about today is not for the majority of typical business owners who are just going to sit it out, wait it out, or worse yet, whine it out on social media.

Arguing with reality in business is a huge waste of time. If you've got clients who are in that head space where they're sort of scared, they're not quite sure what to do next. If you call them and you're in that same head space, then you're not helpful to them. But if you call them with some thoughts or ideas on how you can help them to accomplish the things they want to accomplish, now you have value, and they're going to be happy to talk to you.

They're going to want to talk to you because they understand that you may have the solution to some of the problems they're facing.



David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist, and I ask the question, are you stuck arguing with reality? Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to see you, David. Normally, I feel like I'm stuck arguing with virtual reality these days. With Chat GPT or the like. What are we talking about when you say "argue with reality?"


David: We touched on this in a previous podcast, and it's a quote that I heard from Byron Katie. She wrote a book called Loving What Is, and she had this quote in there where she said, "Whenever I argue with reality, I lose, but only 100% of the time."

And I loved that quote because it just seemed so completely true.

Anytime we argue with whatever is actually happening, whatever's going on in the world, whenever we argue with that reality, we lose.

And if you go to social media, any social media platform, you will find millions of people, every day, arguing with reality.

They'll be talking about things they have no control over, that they wish weren't the case. And you can waste so much life doing this, that I thought it would be good for us to have a conversation about it.

Kevin: Well, we talked a little bit about controlling what you can control and accepting what you can't control, so it kind of fits into the same category. And it feels like we tend to resist what's happening, instead of adapting to it. Is that fair to say?

David: Yeah. I think a lot of people do that, and not that we're even doing it intentionally. A lot of times we don't even consider this idea of what is reality versus what am I looking at on a day-to-day basis?

We tend to go into experiences, whether it's conversations with people, whether it's posting something on social media or replying to someone on social media, doing any of these things, and we just feel like we're having a conversation and we don't necessarily take into consideration what are the things that are just real and true, that I might be arguing against, right?

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: So when people go online, particularly now, and they're on there and they're talking about tariffs and all the terrible things that are going to be happening to their business, I look at that and I'm like, okay, well, the tariffs, that's true. The uncertainty in the market, that's true.

Everyone is dealing with that. But if I talk about that without looking for solutions, without looking for the ways to get around those problems, then why am I even doing it? Isn't that not just wasting time, but wasting our lives and other people's lives?

Kevin: Mm-hmm. What other ways, you know, we mentioned tariffs, there's plenty of big stuff out there that's happening that affects the business world.

But as far as, you know, just getting into the sales process, the business process, what other ways do you find that people argue with reality?

David: Ghosting. Sales in general? Cold calling. I mean, every aspect of sales requires us to deal with different aspects of reality every single time. Right?

"These people won't call me back." Okay. That may be a reality with those people.

We'll say things like, "oh man, there's just so much going on. I'm so busy. I'm just busy, busy, busy every day." When you're saying that sort of thing, it's a strong indication that you've got a bunch of unfinished business. You've got open loops, and maybe you're not capturing it.



David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist and I will be discussing the topic of no more unfinished business. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to see you, David. How you been?

David: Been doing great. And you?

Kevin: Good, good. So unfinished business. What do you mean when you say that?

David: Well, I learned this somewhere, a number of years ago, and when I first heard, I was like, "oh man, this is me."

They were talking about the fact that in business there are starters and there are finishers. And very often they're not the same person. Right? There are some people who are very good at starting projects and other people who are very good at finishing them. A lot of entrepreneurs, and some salespeople as well, are very good at starting projects.

We're all excited and we're very happy to dive in, and then we tend to lose interest as we go.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: And what that creates is a lot of unfinished things all around. And when you've got these unfinished things, they weigh on you. Right?

And so when I talk about the idea of no more unfinished business, what I'm saying is that we should look at the things that are out there, that are stuck in the back of our minds. It's like, "I know I need to do that. I know I need to finish it. I haven't done it yet, but I don't feel like it," or whatever it is that's keeping us from getting it done.

Kevin: Is it possible that you need to look at it and say were these things really that important in the first place?

David: That's a great way to approach it. Right? Because there are things you just say, you know what? I started that, but no, that's not worthwhile.

Kevin: There's a reason I didn't finish it. Yeah.

David: Exactly. And it's good to eliminate that sort of thing. Whenever you're able to do that. If there's something that you're working on, you decide, look, this is not generating the results I'm looking for.

Yes. Just make sure that you don't cancel it because you don't feel like doing it, right? You got to cancel it for the right reasons. If you're going to eliminate it, make sure that you evaluated it first.

One of the things that I've talked about a lot in terms of just the things that we do in our projects is looking at things, I refer to it as the RADD method, RADD.

It stands for Remove, Automate, Delegate, or Do. Okay, so we start with the R. Remove.

And there's a reason these are actually in this order, which I'd nearly forgotten. But the reason is that if you do it in this order, you're going to end up a lot better off. If you start by removing the things that don't have to be done, then wow, that's a big relief.

You're able to, essentially,

Kevin: Your list just got smaller. Yeah, yeah.

David: Yeah. You just eliminate it before it even becomes a problem, so that's the first step. You basically remove it.

Second step is if you can automate it, right? If it's something that can be automated, then you don't have to do it. You don't have to have anyone else do it, and it will happen automatically going forward.

So simple things like email autoresponders can allow you to create responses to something once and then have them happen again and again and again. So anything that can be automated, ideally should be automated.

Third step is delegating. Can I delegate this to someone else?

I've been having conversations over the past couple of weeks about this very topic of creating certainty in uncertain times. So much of it boils down to the specific steps I can put in place in my business. Reach out to the right people, say the right things, in the right order, consistently. That will not only improve your confidence in yourself. It will improve their confidence in you and their certainty that you can do the job for them.



David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist, and I'll be discussing creating certainty in uncertain times. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Great to see you again, David. Wow, uncertain times. There's an understatement of the year, huh?

David: Yeah. There's been so much discussion on the forums and inside the social media groups and everything like that. A lot of people are uncertain about a lot of things, and that does not generally bode well for businesses.

Kevin: No, no, it definitely doesn't. So what does it really mean to create certainty? When everything around you feels unstable.

David: Yeah. We had talked in a previous podcast about our circles of influence. Like the things we can control and the things we can't. It really does circle back in a lot of ways to this.

When we talk about creating certainty, we can only ever do that within the realms that we control. We can create certainty in specific aspects of our business.

So when we're talking about things like tariffs, which obviously is a big topic these days, a lot of our clients are in the promotional products industry, and a lot of that product tends to come from overseas. Much of it is coming from China.

So in those situations, we're not able to create certainty with that, right? That's not within our sphere of influence. So what we can do and what our clients can do is to look at the specific things we can create certainty around.

Can we identify suppliers who are can provide products for us that are not impacted by that?

Can we look at more domestic suppliers? What are the specific things we can do to create a level of certainty for our customers? Something our competitors might not be able to provide?

Kevin: And I think there's a level of authenticity too that has to go with it, right? Because certainty you can sort of project certainty. but you don't wanna pretend to have all the answers when you don't. So how do you balance that?

David: Yeah, you can't really fake certain, well, I guess you can fake certainty.

Kevin: You can try. Yeah,

David: You can pretend you're certain, but I'm not really talking about that.

I think there's certainly an air of confidence that you want to be able to convey to your clients, and sometimes when you're conveying confidence, you may still not be certain about things.

But in this conversation, I'd like to look at, okay, what are the things that we can do? What can we be certain of? You know, are we certain that we can help our clients? And if so, how are we certain that we can help our clients?

What are the things that we know that we can do that will help them? And if it's about sourcing things that are more in line with exactly what they're looking for, trying to get around the obstacles for our clients.

If we're certain we can do those types of things. Just identifying the very specific steps that we can take, what can we be certain about, and then focus on those things.

Kevin: You mentioned that, a lot of our listeners are in the promotional product space. There's still a lot of uncertainty that's coming our way. A lot of flipping and flopping going on with tariffs and whatnot. What do you recommend businesses do to sort of like help prep?

Anytime there is any sort of issue in your business that’s not quite going the way it should, don't sabotage your sales success. Instead, just ask yourself, is this because the process that I have in place is not working? Or is it because the person who is supposed to be following the process just didn’t do it?



David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist and will be discussing How Businesses Sabotage their Sales. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to see you, David. How you been?

David: Been doing great. It's good to see you too.

Kevin: Yeah, for sure. I'm excited to talk about this. So, sabotaging sales, what do you mean by that, when you say businesses are sabotaging their sales?

David: You know, I had some experiences recently and I'm like, did they intend to do this? Is this what they were trying to do? Did they set out to do this when they were doing it. One of the experiences I had recently was I was going to buy a pair of earbuds, right?

And there's a particular brand of earbuds that I like. It's not the ones that would normally leap to mind. It's another one. But a good brand, they work really well. And I got a text from them saying that they were having a sale. And I was like, okay, cool. Maybe I'll buy an extra pair of earbuds even though I don't need them.

And so in the link that they sent me, they said, click through and you get 35% off. I'm like, cool. So I click through the link and it takes me to a picture of what I think are the earbuds that they're selling, and it says 20% off, with a certain promo code.

And I'm like, okay, well I'm looking for the 35% off, but there was a different promo code in the text, so I'm like, okay, I'll just plug the correct promo code and it'll work. Right?

So finally figured out how to do that. No, it said this is not applicable to this particular product. So I'm like, okay. But they had some sort of chat person or chat being or chat AI, I don't know what it was.

Kevin: Chat AI agent. Yeah.

David: Yeah. Something not quite what I thought it might be, but. I thought, okay, well I'll ask the question. And none of the answers that I got were relevant to what I was asking. And I was like, I'm here. I've got my wallet open.

Kevin: I'm ready to buy!

David: I want to buy exactly the thing that you sent me a text to, and you're making it hard. Why are you making it so hard?

Kevin: Yeah.

David: And it replied quickly to a lot of questions and then, it was just like ghosting. It's like, okay, I didn't hear anything back. So I'm like, I'm like, are you AI? And I didn't get an answer. I thought if it was AI, it would at least tell me it was AI.

So, I didn't get to order that day. The next day I tried again. I actually reached out to their customer support, had another non-experience there. But eventually I was able to figure out that apparently there were two sets of this earbud in a similar color, and the link took you to the wrong one and applied the wrong link. And so that's why it was saying it was wrong.

And I didn't care about the color. I was like, I wouldn't have normally bought this color, but it was 35% off, so I was like...

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, whatever.

David: Right.

Kevin: Earbuds.

David: Anyway, long story short is what should have taken three to five minutes and been an exceptional experience took a whole lot longer and diminished my passion for this particular product.

So I thought, you know, there are a lot of businesses that do this sort of thing, and the words that leap to my mind is that they're sabotaging their own sales, which is kind of the purpose of this conversation.

It's not always easy to get information from clients. If you're in a situation where you have good relationships with your clients, but you're struggling to get the information you need from them, there are very specific things that you can do that will help you to accomplish that a lot faster and a lot more organically. It'll just feel better when you're doing it right, and they'll be a lot more likely to help you with it.



David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist, and I will be discussing getting information out of clients. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Hey, welcome back to you too. I'm really excited to talk about this because let's be honest, like we're all very conscious of the fact that everyone wants our information, so it's a bit of a struggle sometimes.

David: Yeah, it really is. And when we're looking at trying to extract information from clients, sometimes it's like trying to pull teeth. Or trying to get the information that we need to either advance the sale or to be able to get an order completed and that sort of thing. And it can definitely be challenging.

Kevin: Yeah, no doubt. How much of it do you think is how people ask for the information? Instead of saying like, give me this. Is it better to kind of think about it in more of a storytelling narrative kind of way to pull things out?

David: That's a great question. I think a lot of it depends on your personality and the way that you communicate with people.

Many salespeople, many of the best salespeople, I think are natural storytellers. You ask them what time it is and it starts with a story. Right? So...

Kevin: Well, it all started back when I was eight.

David: Let's talk about time, shall we?

Kevin: Yeah.

David: Yeah, so I think it can take that form. I think there are also situations, a lot of times, where we know what we need to get from them, and sometimes if we're just going for it all the time, that can come across as a little too pushy in some ways.

So I think there's a natural give and take that needs to happen, so that people can feel engaged with us.

If they feel engaged in the conversation, if they feel that we're listening to them, paying attention to what they need, and that's woven in with getting the next piece of information that I need without coming across like an interrogator.

Like I'm going to shine a light on you. It's like the third degree in the cop movies. Right? If it feels like that, they're gone.

But when you're able to just engage them and let them know that you care about getting them a result, then they're a lot more likely to be free with the information.

Kevin: Obviously at the front end of a sales cycle, it's more basic information and it keeps going, getting more detailed as things go on. Should people change their approach as they go on from first contacting someone to maybe having a warm or even hot lead?

David: Definitely, and I think you raised exactly the right point there, which is that it does generally start out more general and then it gets more and more specific as you're getting down to it.

Sometimes salespeople will lead with things like, what's your budget? Right? Which is kind of intrusive, right?

Kevin: Yeah. That's the one, right?

David: You don't need to ask me about my budget if I'm not buying anything from you, right?

Kevin: Yeah, yeah. What's your budget? What's your timeline? Right? Isn't that what everybody always says first?

David: Yeah. And that's not the kind of thing that generally needs to come first.

Initially, what needs to happen is they need to feel some sort of connection. They need to have a clear idea of what you do,