What’s happening with Section 45Z—and what does it mean for farmers, ethanol producers, and the broader regenerative agriculture movement? In this update episode, Continuum Ag founder and seventh-generation Iowa farmer Mitchell Hora returns to break down what’s new (and what’s still in limbo) for the 45Z Clean Fuel Production Credit, how policy delays and the government shutdown are impacting adoption, and what’s next for the biofuels market. We dive deep into how Continuum Ag’s TopSoil platform is helping farmers verify low-carbon practices, the economic realities of farmland, and why Mitchell believes soil health is more critical than ever for resilience and profitability. We talk about: The latest developments and delays around 45Z and the USDA’s CI calculator How the “book-and-claim” model could unlock mass farmer participation Why 45Z could be the most powerful driver of regenerative adoption yet The collision between high input costs, rising land prices, and farm debt What Mitchell’s 2024 harvest revealed about the ROI of soil healthWhy keeping family farms viable will require new finance models and investor partnerships 🎧 Listen for a grounded, candid look at ag policy, economics, and innovation—from someone living it every day.

Corn and soy net $100–$200 per acre -- or less, given the extraordinarily difficult commodity markets at the moment. Chestnuts? Potentially $3,000–$5,000. But those returns don’t come free, the upfront cost of installing and maintaining tree crops is significant. Jeremy Kaufman, the co-founder & COO of Propagate, digs into the economics and project finance structures they've built to make commercial agroforestry viable and ensure farmers aren’t left holding all the risk. In this episode, we dig into: The detailed economics of commercial agroforestry with chestnuts, black locust, and other “growth crops” in U.S. agroforestry The financing models bringing landowners, farmers, and investors together The market outlook for the commercial crops they recommend How Propagate structures deals across landowners, farmers, and investors Jeremy's hard-earned lessons that carbon credits alone rarely pencil, but add value as a stacked revenue stream. Jeremy also shares lessons from nearly a decade of building Propagate: crop orientation vs. practices orientation, which kinds of investors actually fit this space, and why humility is essential when working with farmers. 

How do you turn conservation into a cash crop? From his experience in the 1980s farm crisis to $55M in outcome-based payments, Adam Kiel explains how creating market signals for conservation underpins the Soil & Water Outcomes Fund (SWOF). Adam, the Managing Director of SWOF, shares how they've built outcome-based contracts that shift risk off farmers while delivering measurable results for corporations at scale. Instead of cost-share programs, SWOF sends clear market signals that conservation has value by paying producers directly for soil, water, and climate outcomes. We talk about: How Adam’s roots in the 1980s farm crisis have shaped his mission How SWOF grew from 10k to 1M+ acres in just four years $55M already paid to farmers through outcome-based contracts The mechanics of capital flows, verification, and upfront payments Why soil sampling costs and closed-source models keep Adam up at night Where corporate demand is strongest Why producers choose to participate

What does catalytic capital actually look like in practice? In this episode, we sit down with Sara Balawajder, Director of Investments at Builders Vision, to go behind the scenes of one of the most active and respected impact investors in food and ag. Sara leads Builders Bridge, a flexible, early-stage portfolio that sits between philanthropy and market-rate capital, with a mandate to unlock system-level change. We cover: Builders Vision’s North Star goals and how they guide every investment Why 3–5x returns, rather than venture-scale, are their targets for food and ag How Builders Vision blends impact and financial returns through creative structures like redeemable equity What it takes to underwrite risk in long-cycle businesses without power-law expectations The emerging role of debt, downside protection, and offtake infrastructure in Regen Ag Plus: Sara shares a reverse pitch—the biggest gaps she sees, where she wants to invest but hasn’t yet.

This is one of the most exciting, detailed, and hopeful conversations we’ve had about the pace and structure of capital flowing to producers investing in soil health. It turns out that one of agriculture’s most opaque arenas—corporate supply chain investments in ecosystem assets—is becoming a major source of funding for soil health improvements. And it’s accelerating. As co-founder and CEO of Millpont, Dom Sutton-Vermeulen has a front-row seat to this emerging market. Millpont is building the infrastructure to ensure the integrity of ecosystem assets like carbon, water, and biodiversity. His team works across project developers and corporate buyers to ensure environmental claims are credible, not double-counted—and that producers are compensated. From this unique vantage point, Dom shares what he’s seeing: Why the market for ag ecosystem credits is accelerating with corporate buyers even as sustainability teams are shrinking The critical role of a clearing house in market governance How data is the new cash crop and how farmers and ranchers can think strategically about it Where the dollars are flowing in offset, inset, and carbon intensity (CI) markets mapped to specific production systems Why major corporations are doubling down on ecosystem asset programs—not for PR, but to manage long-term supply chain risk The extraordinary growth rate in these markets including rate of growth, acreage numbers, and whether it’s just due to the law of small numbers How Carbon Intensity is emerging as a new standard and what that means for producers in row crops vs. pasture systems Premium payment amounts for producers, from early pilot premiums to mature CI programs Opportunities Dom sees, both to build additional infrastructure companies in the space as well as project development gaps If you’re trying to make sense of this complex and fast-evolving space, Dom offers one of the clearest, most grounded perspectives we’ve heard.

What if everything we’ve been told about maximizing yield is leading us in the wrong direction? And if you’ve ever asked, “Where’s the premium?” or “Does changing on-farm practices mean a certainty of more risk in exchange for uncertain gain?” — this episode of The Business of Soil Health offers a counter-narrative from one of the most experienced regenerative agronomic advisors in the world. Your hosts, Patrick and Sami, sit down with Dr. Allen Williams — rancher, scientist, and founding partner at Understanding Ag — for a wide-ranging conversation that reframes how we think about profitability, risk, and the true function of soil. Allen shares why he left a tenured academic career, what most agronomists get wrong, and how regenerative agriculture offers a path off the input treadmill. We explore: How common practices like tile drains and center pivots are treating symptoms rather than root causes Why yield is a poor north star metric — and how most agronomists are solving for the wrong outcome The “Rule of Compounding” and how every decision creates cascading effects on biology and economics The three barriers holding producers back: lack of education, peer pressure, and debt The path from regenerative to organic — and why they’re complementary, not competitive Why corporate investment is being driven more by supply chain resilience than by climate action

We have a conversation with former FSA Administrator Zach Ducheneaux on courage, capital, and how he’s trying to rewrite the rules of ag finance. A multi-generational producer himself, Zach recently launched The Fifth C—a new lending venture challenging the short-termism baked into agricultural finance and offering a path toward long-term, relational capital. Drawing from his experience both on the land and inside federal policy, Zach unpacks the extractive norms of ag credit and introduces a new framework grounded in what he calls the missing ingredient in today’s systems: courage. We dig into the limitations of operating loans, the agency-sapping effects of short-term finance, and how producers can reclaim power in financial relationships. We also close with rapid-fire reflections on government efficiency, interest rates, and the ripple effects of tariffs on rural America. Whether you’re a producer, policymaker, investor—or simply care about the future of agriculture—this is a conversation you don’t want to miss.

We’re back with a new season—and a new co-host. In this episode kicking off Season 2, Patrick Smith is joined by new co-host Sami Tellatin, co-founder of FarmRaise and a longtime advocate for financing solutions that support producers during their soil health transition. Sami shares her background, and then Patrick and Sami reflect on: Why the financial side of soil health matters now more than ever How macro shifts—like interest rates, tariffs, and public financing—are reshaping the ag landscape Why conversations about capital, risk, and producer power need more airtime They also preview what’s ahead for Season 2: a focus on macro shifts through the lens of the 12 Financial Levers of Soil Health, and a sneak peek at Episode 1 featuring Zach Ducheneaux, former FSA Administrator and founder of The Fifth C. Whether you’re a producer, funder, or policy thinker—welcome. Let’s talk about the financial implications and opportunities related to soil health.

In this episode I talk with independent agronomist Jerel Kratt who works in the southern Central Valley of California. He unpacks why many have become skeptical of regenerative agriculture in California: 🌪️ Visible failures in early implementations of regen practices 📉 Market realities, from the almond market collapse to the lack of a premium for regenerative crops ⚖️ Political and regulatory pressures, especially California’s Sustainable Groundwater Management Act (SGMA) These challenges have made “regenerative” a loaded term among producers and processors, and have ramped up economic pressures for producers that disincentivizes transition. But Jerel also shares his optimism. He discusses his hybrid approach—offering a path forward that is able to drastically reduce chemical inputs and create measurable economic benefits. It’s rooted in a clear-eyed view of soil health and plant nutrition, using all the agronomic tools he has available. Jerel offers a grounded, practical, and thought-provoking conversation from the perspective of an independent agronomist advising producers in the dry southern San Joaquin Valley. Chapters 00:14 Introduction to Regenerative Agriculture Consulting 02:40 Challenges in Consulting and Adoption of Practices 05:01 Context-Specific Approaches to Regenerative Practices 06:35 The Role of Biologicals and Biostimulants 11:41 Independent Agronomy: A Growing Trend 12:16 Economic Outcomes of Regenerative Practices 12:35 Finding Independent Agronomists 14:49 Economics and Market Dynamics in California 18:25 Water, SOM, SOC 21:09 SGMA and Regulatory Tensions 27:23 The Perception of Regenerative Agriculture in California 31:17 Selling Regenerative Solutions in a Tough Market 34:20 Personal Journey Towards Regenerative Agriculture 40:34 A Call for Collaboration in Agriculture

In this conversation, Emma Fuller, co-founder of Fractal.ag, discusses their novel farmland investment model, which makes minority equity investments in farmland while incentivizing soil health practices.    Fractal is the first widely available farmland equity product, unlocking capital for farmers while they maintain ownership and control. Emma talks in detail about: Fractal’s ownership model and underwriting approach Their core hypothesis that soil health drives better productivity and cash flows, which in turn drives higher land values How producers use the capital Fractal makes available (spoiler alert: most use it to expand their operation by buying additional land) How Fractal’s model encourages soil health practices, and how producers can stack discounts by stacking those practices The strong demand they’re seeing from producers The challenges of raising capital as first-time fund managers How much capital they’ve raised and deployed, and the total they’re targeting for their fund Her view on the vital role that commodity production plays in scaling regenerative agriculture Chapters 00:14 Introduction to Fractal.ag and their Unique Model 03:00 Addressing the Need for Equity Financing in Farming 07:04 Incentivizing Soil Health and Climate-Smart Practices 10:40 Making Money through Annual Payments and Property Sales 22:22 Investment Model 25:00 Long-Term Partnership 27:21 Exit Options 32:00 Fundraising and Deployment 36:45 Scaling Impact Through Commodity Production 41:58 Financial Flexibility for Farmers Keywords Fractal, farmland investment, minority equity, soil health, regenerative agriculture, farmer financing, agricultural practices, impact investing, sustainable farming, capital deployment

In this episode, Patrick Smith interviews Matt Nicoletti, Director of Business Development at Penny Newman Grain—a California grain trader founded in 1878 that has grown into a global leader in bulk commodity logistics.  We dive into how Penny Newman is both advancing soil health through innovative inputs, and working to transform their legacy business. Their unconventional approach challenges some of the received wisdom in regenerative agriculture: 🚜 𝗜𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗴𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗦𝗼𝗶𝗹 𝗛𝗲𝗮𝗹𝘁𝗵 𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗼 𝗔𝗴𝗿𝗶𝗯𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗲𝘀𝘀: Penny Newman is leveraging their scale to produce and distribute innovative biological inputs, integrating them directly into large farming operations without asking for fundamental operational changes. 🐛 𝗣𝗿𝗶𝗼𝗿𝗶𝘁𝗶𝘇𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗢𝘂𝘁𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘀 𝗢𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝗣𝗿𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗲𝘀: Instead of focusing on cover crops or no-till methods, Matt's team optimizes soil biology through biological inputs. The result is rapid and dramatic improvements in crop yield and vigor, which really grabs producers' attention. 💰 𝗘𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗼𝗺𝗶𝗰 𝗪𝗶𝗻𝘀 𝗕𝗲𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗠𝗶𝗻𝗱𝘀𝗲𝘁 𝗦𝗵𝗶𝗳𝘁𝘀: Matt's approach focuses on delivering immediate economic results rather than waiting for farmers to adopt new practices or change their mindset. Showcasing the power of soil biology opens the door for producers to explore further. ⚡️𝗔𝘀 𝗼𝗽𝗽𝗼𝘀𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗮 "𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗱𝗹𝗲" 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗱𝗹𝗲: Penny Newman trades and transports commodities into California from all over the world. We discuss some of the challenges they're facing as they navigate their customers' Scope 3 emission reduction programs. Notable Quotes  (17:16) It's much more difficult to save your way to profitability than it is to grow your way to profitability…one of the mistakes that I made early was trying to get growers to drastically reduce their nitrogen inputs. So let's use the tomato market, for example. If you were to reduce, let's say that tomato grower was using 200 units of nitrogen in the form of UAN 32. That means that they're using roughly 70 gallons of UAN-32 and a gallon of UAN-32 in the current market costs roughly, you know, $2. Okay, so you're spending $140 per acre. So if you reduce your nitrogen inputs by half, you're going to save $70 roughly. Okay, and that's material on a per acre basis, like any grower who you go to and say, hey, I want to take $70 out of your input budget. They're going to like that in concept, right? However, when you look at, you know, where the profitability comes from, going back to yield increases, right? The tomato market is today, $112.50 per ton. Average tomato yield last year was roughly 50 tons per acre. So a, which would mean that a that a five ton yield increase would be a 10 % increase in yield, which is absolutely attainable, right? And at five tons times $112, you're north of $500 in profitability increase, right? So I would rather make $500 than save $70. (09:57) If I can't show up and show results within – call it the first year of working together – Then I don't get invited back. You know, my customers are not people that say, I want to go regenerative. Let's work with Penny Newman. These are people who are just wanting to maximize profitability on-farm and looking for innovative ways to do that. (08:40) It's kind of like a methadone clinic, right? You're weaning growers slowly and steadily off of those things, but doing it in a way that you don't see this big yield decline. Because I think one thing that you obviously think a lot about, is how growers manage that perceived risk, right? And when we talk about soil health and regenerative, we're generally talking about management practices that are oftentimes difficult to implement that growers don't have experience with. And in the regenerative ag circles, you hear people talk about this sort of yield dip that is inevitable when you go quote unquote regenerative. And as much as I love that word and I love the movement, I don't necessarily align ourselves with it as much anymore because if that's what regenerative ultimately means, then I can't necessarily clai

Mitchell is a 7th-generation Iowa farmer and the Founder/CEO of Continuum Ag, a soil health data intelligence company. He’s one of the leading evangelists for scoring crops according to their Carbon Intensity as a measure of climate impact that’s strongly aligned with how producers operate. Mitchell shares his journey into regenerative agriculture, starting from his seventh-generation family farm in Iowa and discussing how early mistakes with cover cropping fueled his drive to ensure that farmers have the data and technical support necessary for success. He emphasizes that soil health practices can deliver significant long-term benefits, including reduced input costs, increased resilience, and lower environmental impact, but stresses the importance of farmer-to-farmer technical assistance over government-led programs. Mitchell also highlights Continuum Ag’s role in helping farmers understand their carbon intensity scores, which are becoming critical as markets and policies like the Inflation Reduction Act incentivize low-carbon farming practices. He explains how these scores can drive new economic opportunities for farmers, particularly in the biofuels sector. Mitchell is optimistic about the potential for agriculture to shift from being part of the problem to being a key part of the climate solution, as more farmers adopt regenerative practices that are backed by data and verified for legitimacy.   Notable Quotes    (00:05:33) The corn just looked like crap too. I've got some pictures of it and stuff, just nasty. But a lot of farmers run into those issues where we're planting corn, that's a grass, into a cover crop, namely cereal rye, which is used more than 90 % of the time across the Midwest. But cereal rye, also a grass, said they are in competition to each other. And we got what's known as the carbon penalty, where we had too much carbon biomass out there, tried planting corn into it, and just screwed things up...It was our fault. We didn't know what the heck we were doing. Our soil health was not ready for it, meaning our biological activity was not great. We had been no tilling, but we were conventionally farming, right? With plenty of pesticides and plenty of synthetic fertilizer. And just no till alone doesn't get you where you need to go.  (00:08:51) We've changed our system to revolve around this cover crop. And the cover crop is part of the program that now we're able to have huge success with it. We’ve decreased our need for fertilizer and pesticides significantly. We've reduced fertilizer by about 50 percent. We've reduced our pesticides by about 75 percent. We've reduced our need for federal crop insurance for any farm subsidies for any replant. We haven't had a replant in years. We haven't had any crop insurance claims in years. We're just so much more resilient. You don't have to lose money in year one. Now, it might take some off-farm money to offset the cost and to maintain and to break even in those first couple of years, but you can absolutely be money ahead very, very soon into this journey as long as you don't screw it up like we did, and that's why the technical support is just so critical I really worry about how fast this is going. And I know that regulation is the wrong way to do it, because the technical support is not readily available at scale. The logistics, the logistical support not ready at scale, namely cover crop seed, the ability to apply all these cover crops, the labor to get it all done. Those infrastructure components don't exist today. They've progressed a long way, but like, It takes time to let that stuff really get going and let supply and demand just fuel it. (00:11:39) The real technical assistance needs to happen farmer to farmer. That's how farmers learn best anyway. And that's becoming more readily available. I think social media has helped with that. There's a gazillion different field days and events and social media connecting people to really tell their story an

Matt Rohlik is the Managing Director of Sales and Strategic Partnerships at ARVA Intelligence.    ARVA plays a key role in the “insetting market” – the market for ecosystem assets *inside* companies’ supply chains. This is a crucial tool for ag-dependent companies to decarbonize their supply chains, which make up a significant amount of their total emissions – in most cases, more than 50%.   Matt has a deeply informed insider’s perspective on how the insetting and carbon offsetting market are shaping up in ag, demand dynamics from ecosystem buyers, and the challenges and rewards of facilitating and supporting producers who are creating and selling this new asset class. Matt shares his background in farming, finance, and precision agriculture, and dives into ARVA Intelligence's role in ecosystem asset markets.   Matt discusses the complexities of insetting programs, offsets, carbon intensity (CI) scores, and their practical implications for growers, consumer packaged goods (CPGs), and supply chains.   Matt explains the growing interest in sustainable practices like cover crops, nutrient management, and soil health improvement, as well as the financial incentives that are now being offered to farmers to adopt these practices. We talk in detail about what payment ranges producers can expect to see from these programs. And we explore the challenges around regional implementation, trusted partnerships, and the future of ecosystem asset quantification, including carbon credits and CI scores.   The episode highlights the importance of communication between growers and buyers, the need for regionally appropriate practices, and how ARVA is helping bridge the gap between sustainable agriculture and market demand. Notable Quotes    [04:44] - in the last three months, we've seen science-based target initiatives, or what's called SBTI go from around 6,500 to 8,000… about 18 to 20% are ag-specific…. (~05:00) …there's a lot of money that's coming into here that is gonna influence supply chains [06:36] When you bring farming people to the table with our urban cousins, we find out that we're not actually that very far away in our thinking and what we do for the environment. The problem is we just don't talk….So the transparency of food is just an evolution that's coming. And knowing how my food was raised, is it in some type of a protocol or standard that meets what we feel is generally acceptable? And I think it's actually a really good thing from the perspective they get to see a little limelight of what we do on a day-to-day basis. And when they find out that our tractors are more advanced than their Teslas, I think we're going to have a lot more in common than they think. [11:54] $15 to $35 an acre is a potential for farmers in these programs and which in today's world with a depressed economy 12 months ago corn was $2 higher you know so you think about 200 bushels of corn at $2 and that's a lot of money that has gone away where this is definitely helping I'm going to say keep farmers afloat per se but it's definitely helping on the revenue perspective side or the net revenue side [13:39] And we did a test for five years where cover crops and we implemented no-till, and it did not work very well. And we had all the experts there, and we followed it to the T, and frankly, we lost about $400 an acre…that is not sustainable…(14:39) Now if our farm in Arkansas, we use cover crops, the organic matter is increased by almost a half a point over three years, which is phenomenal. [15:29] …the program I might have here doesn't fit the program in Boone, Iowa or Effingham, Illinois or Fort Wayne, Indiana or Columbus, Ohio. We have to be very realistic and I think the end buyers and CPG's are starting to see that this is not just a cookie cutter approach. It definitely has to be agronomically led. [~16:00] And as we go down the path things like biologicals, humics and fulvics, which most people don't even know what they are, in the CPG worl

We kick off the podcast with a fantastic overview of the interlocking pieces of the puzzle of financing soil health transition. We delve into how farmers, lenders, insurers, and companies across the ag value chain are adjusting to regenerative practices, and the systemic challenges they face in transitioning to climate-smart practices. Our Guest Maggie Monast is the Senior Director of Climate-Smart Agriculture at the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF). With over thirteen years at EDF, Maggie has been at the forefront of soil health economics, offering a unique view across the value chain. She’s worked closely with producers, lenders, large corporations, insurers, and policymakers. The common thread throughout her work has been finding sustainable solutions on farms that are also economically viable. Summary Maggie shares insights on the financial complexities of regenerative practices, highlighting the detailed nature of farm budgets and practices like no-till, nitrogen efficiency, and cover crops – and their compound effects. She discusses the role of data, policy, and economic incentives in supporting farmers and emphasizes the need for collaboration between forward-thinking farmers, lenders, and companies to foster widespread adoption. Patrick and Maggie also explore how lenders and insurers can better align financial products with regenerative practices, and how supply chains are gradually integrating sustainability into procurement processes. Notable Quotes  [01:47] …that honestly surprised me, because this group of farmers, they're business savvy, and they're very committed conservationists. They've been doing this stuff for a long time. So if they still had questions about how some of these practices were affecting their bottom line, that told me that there was a much bigger issue there. [~23:21] I always say regenerative agriculture can be profitable that doesn't mean it *is* going to be. It depends on a lot of things and that's why we have to get the financial incentives and support right to make sure that farmers can make that transition successfully and maintain it over the long term. [~26:01] If you want to know somebody who cares more about farm profitability than maximizing yields, that's a lender. If you want to know somebody who cares about the long-term value of land assets, also a lender. If you want to meet somebody who cares about the risk of their overall lending portfolio, also a lender. But I think they had not quite connected the dots between, for example, portfolio risk and climate risk, or land value and soil health, or profitability and nitrogen efficiency. [~40:47] And, you know, crop insurance is backward looking in its model. What I would love to see is some more kind of forward thinking about what are these climate risks that are accelerating and how can crop insurance work symbiotically either through the crop insurance program itself or with other programs to help farmers take adaptation actions to actually reduce that underlying risk. [~51:16]  it's a thing now, you know, over half of the top 100 food and beverage companies have net zero targets. And so while I can't say that, you know, everything has been figured out and they've all totally nailed it, you know, in the last 10 years, the movement and the investment is undeniable. [1:02:23] we are in a moment for regenerative ag or climate smart ag in terms of the investment, both public and private, that is going into this space in the US. You know, we've got massive federal investments, more private investment than we've seen before, and we have to figure out how to turn that moment into actual change. So I would say now is the time for everybody that we've talked about during this podcast to get out there and try something. It might not work, that's okay. But it's really important that we figure out what is going to meet farmer needs in financing the transition and how those pieces Links for Resources Mentioned in the Episode  EDF

The official trailer for The Business of Soil Health podcast.