We have a conversation with former FSA Administrator Zach Ducheneaux on courage, capital, and how he’s trying to rewrite the rules of ag finance. A multi-generational producer himself, Zach recently launched The Fifth C—a new lending venture challenging the short-termism baked into agricultural finance and offering a path toward long-term, relational capital. Drawing from his experience both on the land and inside federal policy, Zach unpacks the extractive norms of ag credit and introduces a new framework grounded in what he calls the missing ingredient in today’s systems: courage. We dig into the limitations of operating loans, the agency-sapping effects of short-term finance, and how producers can reclaim power in financial relationships. We also close with rapid-fire reflections on government efficiency, interest rates, and the ripple effects of tariffs on rural America. Whether you’re a producer, policymaker, investor—or simply care about the future of agriculture—this is a conversation you don’t want to miss.