How do Google Ads and SEO actually work together to grow your private practice? What needs to be in place before you start spending money on ads? How can you turn more clicks into real clients, without wasting your marketing budget?
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn speaks about how to make Google Ads work for your practice with John Sanders. 



Podcast Sponsor: Headway







I want to thank Headway for sponsoring this episode. If you run a group practice, you know that accepting insurance can be overwhelming. Between credentialing, billing, and payroll, the admin side can easily take over your week.
Headway was built to help you handle this — and they’re the only platform designed specifically for in-network group practices. Whether you’re growing your team or running an established practice, Headway makes the business side easier with faster credentialing, higher per-session rates, and biweekly payments your team can count on. They work with therapy, psychiatric, and hybrid groups — and there are no subscription fees. Just the support you need to run your practice with ease.
Run your best group practice with Headway — trusted by thousands of group practice leaders to simplify insurance admin and reach more people through in-network care.
Curious how Headway can work for you? 
Meet John Sanders



John Sanders is the founder of RevKey, a digital marketing agency that helps private practice owners attract more clients through smart, data-driven Google Ads strategies. With years of experience in SEO, paid advertising, and practice growth, John specializes in turning clicks into real client connections. His practical, no-fluff approach helps therapists make the most of their marketing budgets by building strong systems that convert leads into lasting client relationships.
Visit RevKey and connect on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.




In This Podcast






*
Google Ads and SEO

*
What to get right before using Google Ads

*
Google Ads best practices

*
Final takeaways for listeners 


Google Ads and SEO
Your practice marketing efforts often benefit most from a diverse strategy, one that includes digital marketing, keyword-optimized websites, and networking with the people and businesses in your community. 
Real-life social networking and digital marketing are not meant to replace each other, but they provide additional support to your overall marketing efforts. Making use of both means that you are covering all your bases appropriately.
When it comes to Google Ads and SEO, there is some overlap. Google Ads helps boost your business in search pages, and SEO helps Google and prospective clients to find you more easily with keyword searches. 

A lot of the things that you’re doing for SEO will also help your paid ads, and vice versa. (John Sanders)

What to get right before using Google Ads
Before you start with Google Ads, these are the essentials that you should have in place: 
1 – A good, SEO-ready website 

Are you afraid that niching down will drive clients away? What if, instead, it brings the right clients straight to your door? And how can clarity about your purpose be the key to sustainable growth?
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn speaks about why niching is important and positions your practice for success with Dr. Christen Mullane. 



Podcast Sponsor: Headway







I want to thank Headway for sponsoring this episode. If you run a group practice, you know that accepting insurance can be overwhelming. Between credentialing, billing, and payroll, the admin side can easily take over your week.
Headway was built to help you handle this — and they’re the only platform designed specifically for in-network group practices. Whether you’re growing your team or running an established practice, Headway makes the business side easier with faster credentialing, higher per-session rates, and biweekly payments your team can count on. They work with therapy, psychiatric, and hybrid groups — and there are no subscription fees. Just the support you need to run your practice with ease.
Run your best group practice with Headway — trusted by thousands of group practice leaders to simplify insurance admin and reach more people through in-network care.
Curious how Headway can work for you? 
Meet Dr. Christen Mullane



Dr. Christen Mullane, Ph.D., is a clinical psychologist, certified meditation teacher, and the founder of Ginkgo Leaf Health Services. She specializes in trauma-informed therapy for individuals navigating the emotional toll of medical events—offering compassionate support to patients, caregivers, and healthcare professionals alike. With a practice grounded in empathy and evidence-based techniques, Dr. Mullane helps people reclaim safety, trust, and joy after medical stress and trauma.
She earned her Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the University of Tennessee and has been practicing since 2012, bringing deep expertise in health psychology and medical trauma treatment. Her work through Ginkgo Leaf blends mindfulness, cognitive-behavioral therapies (for insomnia and chronic pain), and trauma-focused interventions like Cognitive Processing Therapy and Prolonged Exposure. Her unique programs—such as the RISE group—offer healing through resilience-building, mindful coping, and intentional support.
Visit Ginko Leaf Health Services and connect on Facebook and LinkedIn.




In This Podcast






* A practice focused on medical trauma 
* Expanding the practice into a group 
* Don’t be afraid to niche 
* Expanding the practice 
* Christen’s key takeaway 

A practice focused on medical trauma 
Dr. Christen Mullane’s practice Ginkgo Leaf Health offers general therapy but specializes and niches in caring for patients and clients who have experienced medical trauma. 

A lot of where we have decided to specifically niche is for people who have been through adverse medical events directly, or who are caring for [other] people through them. (Dr. Christen Mullane) 

The niche of working with clients who have experienced medical trauma and adverse events is at the heart of their practice. 

Will you continue seeing clients while you grow your practice and become more of the boss? If you do, how can you avoid burnout? If you don’t, how can you optimize your time in the best way possible?
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn offers you the final critical question: “Will you continue seeing clients?”



Podcast Sponsor: Headway







I want to thank Headway for sponsoring this episode. If you run a group practice, you know that accepting insurance can be overwhelming. Between credentialing, billing, and payroll, the admin side can easily take over your week. Headway was built to help you handle this — and they’re the only platform designed specifically for in-network group practices.
Whether you’re growing your team or running an established practice, Headway makes the business side easier with faster credentialing, higher per-session rates, and biweekly payments your team can count on.
They work with therapy, psychiatric, and hybrid groups — and there are no subscription fees. Just the support you need to run your practice with ease.
Run your best group practice with Headway — trusted by thousands of group practice leaders to simplify insurance admin and reach more people through in-network care.
Curious how Headway can work for you? 


In This Podcast






* Series recap 
* Yes, with a full caseload 
* Yes, but with a smaller caseload
* No, I will be the CEO only 
* Questions to ask yourself 

Series recap 
This is the final episode in the Critical Questions Series that Brandon Shurn discussed.

Part one was about who you would recruit into your practice 
Part two was about what you would need to consider, being insurance-based or private pay 
In part three, we discussed whether you should hire 1099 independent contractors or W-2 employees 
In part four, the recruitment avenues that are available to you for hiring your staff were explored 

In this podcast and the last section, we tie everything together in asking: Will you continue to see clients as you grow your practice? 
Yes, with a full caseload

So, if you say, “Yes, I’m going to continue with a full caseload”, that means that you are going to have less time to work on the business. You will be working more hours. You set yourself up to experience burnout. (Brandon Shurn)

If you continue seeing a full caseload of clients while running the entire private practice, whether with or without managing other clinicians, you will still run the risk of experiencing or getting into a state of burnout. 
Yes, but with a smaller caseload
Perhaps you will continue seeing clients while you run the practice, but you will only see clients over one or two days. 
This means that you give yourself a break between sessions with clients and running the business, but you would still be asking a large amount of work and effort from yourself to give the best you can to both clients and the practice. 

However you structure it, what it does is it allows you to make more of a transition into the CEO mindset. Meaning, you have more time to work on the business versus working in the business. (Brandon Shurn) 

You do have some benefits to this approach: you model self-care to your clinicians by not pushing yourself to the limit on all fronts. You show them that you can continue being active as a therapist by not having a full caseload while running the business. 
No, I will be the CEO only

Once you decide to hire 1099 contractors or W2 employees, how do you go about finding them? Where is it better to recruit staff from: LinkedIn or Indeed? At what point in your practice’s growth should you consider hiring? 
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn offers you critical questions to help you hire and recruit your best-fit staff.



Podcast Sponsor: Headway







I want to thank Headway for sponsoring this episode. If you run a group practice, you know that accepting insurance can be overwhelming. Between credentialing, billing, and payroll, the admin side can easily take over your week. Headway was built to help you handle this — and they’re the only platform designed specifically for in-network group practices.
Whether you’re growing your team or running an established practice, Headway makes the business side easier with faster credentialing, higher per-session rates, and biweekly payments your team can count on.
They work with therapy, psychiatric, and hybrid groups — and there are no subscription fees. Just the support you need to run your practice with ease.
Run your best group practice with Headway — trusted by thousands of group practice leaders to simplify insurance admin and reach more people through in-network care.
Curious how Headway can work for you? 


In This Podcast






*
Reaching out to people 

*
Be creative and ethical where applicable 

*
When to hire staff


Reaching out to people 
There are many avenues to finding the people that you would hire either as independent contractors or W2 employees. Some of them may include: 
1 – Platforms like Indeed, Ziprecruiter, iHire, Glassdoor. These are great websites to use to find staff, however there can be a cost involved in getting your advertisement out there. 
2 – LinkedIn is a free platform that you can use to reach out and connect with potential staff. 
3 – Existing network of clinicians and therapists that you personally know, whom you can ask to refer potential staff to you. 
4 – Colleges and universities, but only if you want to bring on interns of provisionally licensed clinicians. 

This is not the end-all and be-all of list or recruitment avenues that you can take. You can add so many more! But these are some of the prominent ones, for me, that I believe, will typically come to mind when you think about hiring. (Brandon Shurn)

Be creative and ethical where applicable
Reaching out to people in all sorts of ways is a great method for spreading your reach far and wide. 
You can be creative (and ethical of course) in how you get people to know about the opportunity for work in your practice. 

Utilize approaches that are kind of not conventional, a little grass-roots, and more guerilla in its marketing tactic. I’m reducing the cost of my expenditures to recruit and attract … clinicians. (Brandon Shurn)

Depending on the business model that you work with, and the budget that you have at your disposal, you can use a little bit of all of these networking systems to find which one works best for connecting you with your ideal, new staff. 
When to hire staff
Now that you know who you want to hire (1099 or W2) and you know where to find them, when should you start bringing them onboard into your private practice? 
The golden rule that Practice of the Practice follows is to keep an eye out for that 60% mark. Once you,

What’s the key difference between hiring 1099 contractors and W-2 employees? How does your level of control over staff change with each model? Why is it important to align pay structures with your long-term vision for the practice?
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn offers you critical questions to answer on expanding your practice: Will you hire W-2s or 1099s?



Podcast Sponsor: Headway







I want to thank Headway for sponsoring this episode. If you run a group practice, you know that accepting insurance can be overwhelming. Between credentialing, billing, and payroll, the admin side can easily take over your week. Headway was built to help you handle this — and they’re the only platform designed specifically for in-network group practices.
Whether you’re growing your team or running an established practice, Headway makes the business side easier with faster credentialing, higher per-session rates, and biweekly payments your team can count on.
They work with therapy, psychiatric, and hybrid groups — and there are no subscription fees. Just the support you need to run your practice with ease.
Run your best group practice with Headway — trusted by thousands of group practice leaders to simplify insurance admin and reach more people through in-network care.
Curious how Headway can work for you? 


In This Podcast






* Hiring 1099 or independent contractors 
* W-2 as employees 
* Pay structures and benefits 

Hiring 1099 or independent contractors
First and foremost, reach out to an employee attorney within your area so that you can make sure you understand the full scope of both sides of the coin before settling on whether you want to hire W-2 or 1099 staff into your private practice. 
The crucial point to remember is that a 1099 or independent contractor is not an employee of your practice. This model works best for you if you want a more hands-off approach with your staff. 
Not only are they not an employee of your practice, they’re in control over how they show up. What that means is that you, as the practitioner owner, you cannot govern them in any way … You can’t tell them how to dress, you can’t tell them what modalities to use. There’s a very limited amount in terms of control that you have when you bring on 1099s. (Brandon Shurn) 
W-2 as employees 
However, W-2s are employees in that they become a part of your practice.
If your goal is to create a cohesive culture and working environment within your practice, where everyone is interrelated and connected, then this model may be best for you. 
You have more control over how they show up. You can talk about the culture of your practice, and ensure that the people that you bring on board are aligned with that in more ways than one. (Brandon Shurn) 
Pay structures and benefits
With a lot of practice owners that have 1099 contractors on their staff, the typical pay split is 60/40, where the contractor keeps 60 and the owner keeps 40.  Independent contractors also have to pay out of pocket for supervision, even if it’s coming from the practice owner. 
However, with W-2 staff, the pay split changes, but the amount of benefits can increase, because you can organize insurance, dental, paid leave, and other types. 
So, again, you will need to make this decision based on the overall dream you have for your business and the model you want to run it on. Remember, look at what is legal and workable in your state as well! 
One question that will help you make the determina...

How do you decide who to bring into your practice when you’re ready to expand? What are the pros and cons of working with provisionally licensed clinicians? Why is clarity so important before making your first recruitment decision?
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn offers you critical questions to answer on expanding your practice.



Podcast Sponsor: POP Consulting







 
Feeling stuck in your practice? You don’t have to figure it all out alone.
Whether you’re overwhelmed by admin, unsure how to scale, or just need a clearer path forward—our one-on-one consulting is designed to meet you where you are. At Practice of the Practice, we help therapists and group practice owners grow faster, make smarter business decisions, and reclaim their time.
From systems and marketing to hiring and scaling, our consultants have helped hundreds of clinicians turn their practice into a business they actually enjoy running.
Ready to take the next step? Apply today for personalized one-on-one consulting


In This Podcast






* Who do I want to recruit?
* The benefit of working with a provisionally licensed clinician 
* Take some action 

Who do I want to recruit? 



Who do I want to recruit? 

I say “recruit” as opposed to “hire” because there are many ways [to] expand without necessarily hiring or bringing someone on board as an employee. (Brandon Shurn)

You can grow your solo practice into a group practice, or you can build your solo practice out into a larger business. 
The 1099 and W2 approaches are most common. Whichever system you choose will matter because it offers different ways to integrate these new staff members into the business. 
You can also consider hiring interns who are provisionally licensed or fully licensed clinicians, depending on your preferences and what you want to offer your community. 

There is no right or wrong, it’s all about what you are wanting to do in your practice, and how you want to expand your practice. (Brandon Shurn) 

The benefit of working with a provisionally licensed clinician 
Depending on which option you choose, if you want to recruit people to grow your practice, you can work with different benefits and some downsides. 
For example, if you recruit interns, the contract only extends to the point that their program at the university is complete. 
Therefore, their time with you is relatively short. 
However, the benefit of working with interns is that once they get used to working with you during their internship, they may come back to your practice for a full-time job after they graduate. 

In Maryland, they’ve got to do at least two more years of postgraduate [work], I know that if I can get a person as an intern, really train them up, immerse them, and mentor them, and then they stay on board with my practice, I’ll have three years to really shape the way this clinician will show up. (Brandon Shurn) 

Take some action 
Take some action by exploring the options that you have available to you when it comes to recruiting people into your practice:

Reflect on your license and how it differs from others 
What do you know about other licenses?
How comfortable are you helping other licensed people navigate working in your practice?
Consider the potential downsides as well as the benefits 


You want to explore this, and [remember] there is no right or wrong answer, it’s just about being clear, and if you do not consider who you want to recr...

Why is it important to look beyond symptoms with depth-oriented therapy? What qualities really matter when hiring the right staff for your practice? How does saying “yes” to the right people transform your business?
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn speaks about the importance of saying “YES” to the right people, whether they are clinicians or clients, with Liz Frost.



Podcast Sponsor: POP Consulting







 
Feeling stuck in your practice? You don’t have to figure it all out alone.
Whether you’re overwhelmed by admin, unsure how to scale, or just need a clearer path forward—our one-on-one consulting is designed to meet you where you are. At Practice of the Practice, we help therapists and group practice owners grow faster, make smarter business decisions, and reclaim their time.
From systems and marketing to hiring and scaling, our consultants have helped hundreds of clinicians turn their practice into a business they actually enjoy running.
Ready to take the next step? Apply today for personalized one-on-one consulting
Meet Liz Frost



Liz Frost, MSW, LICSW is the founder and clinical director of Intentional Spaces Psychotherapy, a trauma-informed telehealth practice serving Washington State. With over a decade of clinical experience, Liz specializes in complex trauma, religious trauma, LGBTQ identity, and emotional attunement. Her approach is grounded in psychodynamic and existential therapy, incorporating modalities like EMDR, narrative therapy, mindfulness, CBT, and DBT.
Visit Intentional Spaces and connect on Instagram and LinkedIn. Listen to her podcast here.




In This Podcast






*
Depth-oriented therapy 

*
Hiring the right staff

*
Say “yes” to the right people 

*
Final takeaways for listeners


Depth-oriented therapy 



Liz worked for a long time as a social worker, which made her always look at the whole person when trying to help them. This trait carried over into her private practice work. 

The idea of depth-oriented therapy came from the idea that we’re not just focusing on the symptoms, we’re not just focusing on your ADHD … we’re focusing on what’s underlying that. Often, that’s stomach issues, family issues, core beliefs, any type of complex trauma or illness that we might come across … So [we] knit together this whole experience and tapestry of a person. (Liz Frost)

Even though the symptoms can provide a therapist with insights into how a client’s issues or traumas manifest, Liz argues that it’s essential to delve deeper if we truly want to help people change their lives for the better. 
Hiring the right staff
Liz knew that she needed to distinguish between her role as the business owner and what other people needed to do to simply keep the business running. 
Hiring a great executive assistant was one of the things that allowed Liz to really focus on strengthening her practice from within before hiring additional staff. 
When hiring staff, Liz got 200 applicants!

Why is documenting your process the key to replicating yourself and growing your practice? How can strong systems help you scale a business in months rather than years? What does it look like to build a system that truly supports your clinicians?
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn speaks about how great systems help you scale in months instead of years with Tom Swales.



Podcast Sponsor: POP Consulting







 
Feeling stuck in your practice? You don’t have to figure it all out alone.
Whether you’re overwhelmed by admin, unsure how to scale, or just need a clearer path forward—our one-on-one consulting is designed to meet you where you are. At Practice of the Practice, we help therapists and group practice owners grow faster, make smarter business decisions, and reclaim their time.
From systems and marketing to hiring and scaling, our consultants have helped hundreds of clinicians turn their practice into a business they actually enjoy running.
Ready to take the next step? Apply today for personalized one-on-one consulting
Meet Tom Swales



Tom Swales is a physiotherapist, strength coach, and founder of the Advanced Movement Therapist (AMT) Certification. Based in Barrie, Ontario, he runs Concept of Movement, where he helps clients—from athletes to everyday movers—optimize performance and recover from injury. With a background in functional neurology and movement science, Tom is known for his innovative, evidence-based approach and is a frequent guest on health and performance podcasts.
Visit Concept of Movement and connect on Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn.




In This Podcast






*
The need and benefits of systems 

*
The system that supports a clinician

*
Systematizing your work to replicate yourself 

*
Final takeaway for listeners 


The need and benefits of systems 




That allowed us to scale because now we had management training their staff, and we had to just make sure management is on the same page and on our boat to make sure that they’re implementing the systems that we had created. That’s the only way to scale. If we can’t create systems, then we’re spending time training every single person on everything that we do. (Tom Swales) 

Tom had noticed that their business was pouring way too much time and effort into training up their potential staff. He knew that they needed an overhaul. 
So, he launched AMT to bring in new students who were ready to go, created workable systems from the ground up that supported management in taking care of their employees, and set the business humming at a higher, smoother frequency. 

Now I can take a new-grad physio and, in 6 months, I can get them as good as a 3-year physio, just because of how it organizes what they already know, and how to use it more effectively. (Tom Swales) 

Using systems effectively creates simplicity because it looks at the person as a whole system first,

What does it mean to be fully intentional when building and expanding a private practice? How can growing into a group practice create opportunities not just for clients, but also for future clinicians? How does the name of your business shape the client experience?
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn speaks about being fully intentional in business to develop a group practice with Roni White. 



Podcast Sponsor: POP Consulting







 
Feeling stuck in your practice? You don’t have to figure it all out alone.
Whether you’re overwhelmed by admin, unsure how to scale, or just need a clearer path forward—our one-on-one consulting is designed to meet you where you are. At Practice of the Practice, we help therapists and group practice owners grow faster, make smarter business decisions, and reclaim their time.
From systems and marketing to hiring and scaling, our consultants have helped hundreds of clinicians turn their practice into a business they actually enjoy running.
Ready to take the next step? Apply today for personalized one-on-one consulting
Meet Roni White



Roni K. White, NCC, LCPC, ACS, is the founder and lead therapist of Apricity Wellness Counseling. With over 20 years of experience, she specializes in trauma, grief, female adolescence, and faith-integrated wellness. Roni is also the creator of the Women in the Workplace: Leadership, Barriers, & Struggles series, a TEDx co-director, and a national presenter. Her work spans mental health, education, career counseling, and pastoral care, with a strong emphasis on advocacy and social justice. She currently serves in multiple leadership roles within national counseling associations and leads the Christian Wellness Care & Counseling Ministry at her church.
Visit Roni’s website and connect on LinkedIn.



In This Podcast






*
Being intentional in building out the business 

*
Growing the group practice 

*
“It’s not a building”

*
Apricity Wellness Counselling 

*
Final takeaway for listeners





Being intentional in building out the business



With everything that Roni is doing, she’s also starting to expand her reach by intentionally opening up a group practice. 

For me, it’s thinking about the number of people who are looking for services, and that I am one person. So this is one part of it, saying, “Well, if I become a group practice, my practice can service more [people].” (Roni White) 

One of the reasons why Roni is expanding her private practice from solo to group is to help more people. She’s seen that there is a need for it, and she knows that by doubling up on her capacity to serve by expanding the business, more people will get help. 
Furthermore, Roni wants to convert a part of the practice to help students work, get licensed, and help them pay off their student loans. 
All of her business decisions stem from her intentions to help others.

I want to support others who want to launch their practices. I wholeheartedly believe in that, they don’t have to stay [with me], this can be a launching ramp for what [they’re] inspired to do and led to do. (Roni White) 

Growing the group practice
Over the next 18 to 24 months, Roni aims to have her group practice fully operational. 

How can solo practitioners find the support and collaboration of a group without giving up their independence? What small, intentional steps can turn an idea into a thriving community? Why is building a business around your core values crucial for long-term success? 
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn speaks about Shoreline Connect with Dr. Dorothy Skierkowski-Foster. 



Podcast Sponsor: POP Consulting







 
Feeling stuck in your practice? You don’t have to figure it all out alone.
Whether you’re overwhelmed by admin, unsure how to scale, or just need a clearer path forward—our one-on-one consulting is designed to meet you where you are. At Practice of the Practice, we help therapists and group practice owners grow faster, make smarter business decisions, and reclaim their time.
From systems and marketing to hiring and scaling, our consultants have helped hundreds of clinicians turn their practice into a business they actually enjoy running.
Ready to take the next step? Apply today for personalized one-on-one consulting
Meet Dr. Dorothy Skierkowski-Foster



Dr. Dorothy Skierkowski-Foster is a licensed clinical psychologist based in Warwick, Rhode Island, with a PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of Rhode Island. She specializes in helping adults and older adults manage anxiety, depression, sports performance challenges, ADHD, chronic illness, mood disorders, and substance use. Drawing on approaches like CBT, ACT, DBT, and mindfulness, she takes a compassionate, person-centered approach that emphasizes self-acceptance, emotional regulation, and practical coping strategies. She offers both in-person and teletherapy sessions, creating a supportive environment where clients feel seen, heard, and empowered in their growth.
Visit Shoreline CBT and connect on LinkedIn. See also The Centre for CBT and Mindfulness.




In This Podcast






*
Shoreline Connect

*
Expanding the group with new and existing connections

*
Building a business based on values 

*
Final takeaways for listeners





Shoreline Connect




The idea emerged from a conversation with a colleague who was part of a solo practice and had started and was talking about how they missed being part of a group where they could share cases, consult with colleagues, and get the support that they wanted and really needed. After that conversation, I started to do a little research and look around at what was available … Shoreline Connection emerged as a way to bridge that gap. (Dr. Dorothy Skierkowski-Foster) 

From seeing the need that her colleague expressed, Dr. Skierkowski-Foster created Shoreline Connect to serve solo practitioners who missed and wanted the connection that they had available to them in a group practice setting. 
It allows solo practitioners to experience the benefits of being in a larger group while maintaining the autonomy of their own practice. 

What Shoreline Connection really is, is a close-knit community of vetted professionals in your area … A place where clinicians can come together to direct message each other, where they can have conversations,

What is the powerful connection between humility and growth? How do you view the quality of “humility”? Can you reframe the traditional definition of humility with something that empowers you to live with more compassion, strength, and openness? 
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn discusses the third component to growth for solo and group practice owners: humility.



Podcast Sponsor: POP Consulting







 
Feeling stuck in your practice? You don’t have to figure it all out alone.
Whether you’re overwhelmed by admin, unsure how to scale, or just need a clearer path forward—our one-on-one consulting is designed to meet you where you are. At Practice of the Practice, we help therapists and group practice owners grow faster, make smarter business decisions, and reclaim their time.
From systems and marketing to hiring and scaling, our consultants have helped hundreds of clinicians turn their practice into a business they actually enjoy running.
Ready to take the next step? Apply today for personalized one-on-one consulting


In This Podcast






*
Traditional humility

*
The connection between humility and growth 

*
Reflective questions to help you cultivate humility





Traditional humility 




In a traditional sense, humility is defined as the quality or condition of being humble … It’s traditionally seen as having a modest opinion on one’s own importance. (Brandon Shurn) 

Given this definition, it’s easy to see how some high achievers may not resonate with this traditional sense of what being humble or having humility means. 
Sometimes people reject the word “humility” because it is sometimes depicted as a weakness.
What is your association with “humility”? Do you see it more as a negative or positive quality? 

I tend to think of humility as a state or quality of being, and there’s this blend that happens, between strength, compassion, and openness … We bring all of those concepts and qualities together [and] it remains in flux; the mixture changes, given the situation, not the person. (Brandon Shurn) 

Brandon’s personal and more non-traditional definition of humility includes these three key components: strength, compassion, and openness, which flow like water depending on the situation. 
The connection between humility and growth 

When you talk about embracing humility and it’s this blend of strength, compassion, and openness, you recognize that there are times when you might need to be more strength-based, [for example]. (Brandon Shurn)

When you consider these three parts of humility as Brandon defines them, and view them as water, you can see how you can adjust your approach as you need to, depending on the situation at hand.
For example, sometimes as the practice owner, you will need to step into your strength to make good business decisions to push the business forward. Then, you may step into compassion and work with your staff to bring them up to speed with the change. 
These are ways to utilize these great aspects found within humility. 
Reflective questions to help you cultivate humility 
1 – Given what I have learned about the non-traditional view of humility, what starter blend of compassion, openness, and strength might I want to cultivate? 
2 – How might this new blend impact my business? 
3 – To what degree am I okay with this potential disruption that could happen when I start to move differently? 

Have you ever felt that you have been holding yourself back from achieving your goals? How strong is your discipline? What do you need to do to get out of your own way and pursue your highest ambitions? 
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn discusses mindset within the three components of growth for solo and group practitioners.



Podcast Sponsor: POP Consulting







 
 
 
 
Feeling stuck in your practice? You don’t have to figure it all out alone.
Whether you’re overwhelmed by admin, unsure how to scale, or just need a clearer path forward—our one-on-one consulting is designed to meet you where you are. At Practice of the Practice, we help therapists and group practice owners grow faster, make smarter business decisions, and reclaim their time.
From systems and marketing to hiring and scaling, our consultants have helped hundreds of clinicians turn their practice into a business they actually enjoy running.
Ready to take the next step?Apply today for personalized one-on-one consulting


In This Podcast






* Traditional discipline
* Alternative ways to approach discipline
* Practical strategies and reflective questions 




Traditional discipline 



The more traditional definition of discipline is training to act in accordance with the rules. 
[Discipline] is an exercise, activity, or regimen that develops a skill or improves a skill … It is behavior in accord with rules of conduct and/ or a set or system of rules and regulations. (Brandon Shurn) 
What typically comes to mind when you think about a person who works within this definition of discipline?  People who work in the military, first responders, monks, and Olympic athletes, for example, are all people who act by set rules and have developed a specific skillset to the best of their abilities. 
Alternative ways to approach discipline
For me, discipline means to determine if success can inspire prolonged lingering inside nasty environments. (Brandon Shurn)  
This is what Brandon personally experienced in his life, to determine whether the success that was possible and waiting out there for him could be sustained throughout the struggle he had to go through to achieve it. 

In this case and instance, “nasty” really just means difficult. It’s unwanted, unpleasant, and that environment can be internal or external. (Brandon Shurn)  

Practical strategies and reflective questions
Remember that with a growth mindset and discipline-oriented approach, you view problems as opportunities and failures as learning curves.  Here are some reflective questions you can ask yourself to determine your next steps: 
1 – What area or areas who I want to be successful in? 
2 – What does success look like for my practice? 
3 – What is the big picture goal for my practice?
4 – How ready is my environment for where I want to take my practice? 
5 – Do I want success enough that I can linger and move through these difficult environments? 
6 – If I want to shift from a “trying” mode to a “training” mode, can I allow my success to inspire and sustain my prolonged effort through difficulty? 
7 – How can I get out of my own way on the path to my success? 

If you want success, then you have to determine whether success can inspire [you to endure] prolonged lingering inside nasty environments. (Brandon Shurn)  If you need some extra encouragement or accountability, reach out to the POP team!   

Is your practice at a point where it’s ready to be expanded? Have you got your foundation strong and ready to take on more clients and staff? What do you need to have done within your practice for it to withstand and flourish under a higher workload? 
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn discusses mindset within the three components to growth for solo and group practitioners.



Podcast Sponsor: Therapy Notes







As a therapist, I can tell you from experience that having the right EHR is an absolute lifeline. I recommend using TherapyNotes. They make billing, scheduling, notetaking, telehealth, and E-prescribing incredibly easy. Best of all, they offer live telephone support that’s available 7 days a week.



You don’t have to take my word for it – Do your own research and see for yourself – TherapyNotes is the #1 highest-rated EHR system available today, with 4.9 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot.com and on Google.



All you have to do is click the link below, or type promo code JOE on their website TherapyNotes., and receive a special 2-month trial, absolutely free.



If you’re coming from another EHR, TherapyNotes will import your demographic data quickly and easily at no cost, so you can get started right away.



Trust me, don’t waste any more of your time, and try TherapyNotes.


In This Podcast






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Mindset: traditional versus non-traditional 

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“Is my mindset fixed?”

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How to cultivate a non-traditional/ fixed mindset





Mindset: traditional versus non-traditional




[Our mindset] deals with the way we approach the business, the way that we approach the work. (Brandon Shurn)

There has been a lot said on the topic of mindset, and the definition can get blurry when that happens. Traditionally, mindset has been defined as a fixed mood, fixed attitude, or fixed disposition, or to act with a fixed intention. 
Non-traditionally, Brandon adds to the definition of mindset the quality of grit and an internal shift. An internal shift, in this context, means having the ability to pivot by adopting a growth mindset, or as Brandon calls it, a “training” mindset. 

This internal shift makes it possible for you to grow for two reasons; when I talk about the mindset, the shift that needs to happen, I’m talking about going from a “trying” mindset to a “training” mindset … There’s a couple of things that happen when you make this shift … [where] failures or failings are embraced as part of the training mindset. (Brandon Shurn) 

With a growth or training mindset, you modify failures and mistakes into learning opportunities, empowering yourself to grow and continue on, instead of shutting down and feeling ill-equipped. 
“Is my mindset fixed?”

I want you to ask yourself, as a person and as a business owner, “Is my attitude, my disposition or mood more fixed?” (Brandon Shurn)

Having a fixed mindset isn’t inherently bad, but it is crucial to uncover and come to terms with if you do have one, because a fixed mindset can sometimes cause you more harm than good by making you view life totally in black-and-white, leaving little room for nuance.
Here are some more specific questions that you ...

When should you start considering the intentional growth or expansion of your practice? Do you have your sights set on running a group practice one day? What are the five signs you should look out for to know that you have a good shot of expanding your practice successfully? 
In this podcast episode, Brandon Shurn discusses the five main reasons for when to expand from a solo to a group practice in a mini-consultancy. 



Podcast Sponsor: Therapy Notes







As a therapist, I can tell you from experience that having the right EHR is an absolute lifeline. I recommend using TherapyNotes. They make billing, scheduling, notetaking, telehealth, and E-prescribing incredibly easy. Best of all, they offer live telephone support that’s available 7 days a week.



You don’t have to take my word for it – Do your own research and see for yourself – TherapyNotes is the #1 highest-rated EHR system available today, with 4.9 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot.com and on Google.



All you have to do is click the link below, or type promo code JOE on their website TherapyNotes., and receive a special 2-month trial, absolutely free.



If you’re coming from another EHR, TherapyNotes will import your demographic data quickly and easily at no cost, so you can get started right away.



Trust me, don’t waste any more of your time, and try TherapyNotes.


In This Podcast






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There is a waitlist 

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You want a more flexible schedule 

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Are you turning people away?

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Extend your reach 

*
Reaching a sweet spot in business 

*
What to consider now 





There is a waitlist 



One of the first reasons to consider switching your solo practice to a group practice format is that you have, or are about to have, a waitlist. 

There are so many schools of thought … around whether or not having a waitlist is a good or bad thing. I’m not here to debate the merits for or against whichever decision you land on, but if you have a waitlist or you have people reaching out to you, and you are as full as you want to be in your solo practice, that is a good problem to have! (Brandon Shurn)

As Brandon explains, a waitlist is not inherently good or bad, but it is a good sign that you have a lot of interest from your target audience, and that you have a promising opportunity for growth in front of you. 
You want a more flexible schedule 
Brandon’s second reason to consider growing your practice is a reason that many therapists have for considering the shift: a desire to have more free time. 
Running a group practice will mean a shift in your tasks and schedule, but as your practice receives more streams of income, it allows you to pull back a bit on having to see so many clients. 

We want to be able to take off when we want to, you know, do what we want to with our time, and not be on any other person’s time clock. (Brandon Shurn)

Are you turning people away?
Sometimes your niche is adjacent to other niches, and curious and interested clients will come to you to see if you can help them. However, because they may not fall within your ideal client range,

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Are you currently navigating the challenges of telehealth? What is a good guide and some advice for therapists embracing a nomadic working lifestyle? What are the best strategies for navigating virtual sessions as a traveling therapist? In this podcast episode, Andrew Burdette speaks about creating the lifestyle you want with Kym Tolson.  Podcast Sponsor: Therapy […]

How does effective supervision transform new counselors into confident clinicians? What is the role of mentorship in group practice success? How can you juggle the emotional load of supervision and support new clinicians best? In this podcast episode, Andrew Burdette speaks about clinical supervision and mentorship with Candice Creasman Mowrey.  Podcast Sponsor: Therapy Notes As […]

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