In this episode, Jordan and I talk about his transition from freelancer to strategist, how he found his niche working with Amish farmers, and more.
• Transitioning from freelancer to strategist (and the steps he took in between)
• How he repositioned himself to sell more strategic offerings
• Exploring alternative niches before stumbling into a new niche—Amish farmers!
• How a "Golden Goose" relationship led to three clients (and counting)
• The benefits of aligning your personal identity with the niche you serve
• Using a performance-based compensation model with a fixed base and % of revenue
• How Jordan manages scope and delivers his engagements
• The benefits of a retainer-based model vs. only project work
• How Jordan plans to find more clients when his target market isn't online
• Mindset shifts around mass vs. small audience marketing (resonance)
Key Links and Resources
Jordan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanmogck/
Jordan’s website: https://nicenewsletter.com/
Jordan on X: https://x.com/Jamogck
00:00 Intro
09:09 Finding Your Niche
6:52 Marketing Amish Farms
24:09 Retainer Clients
27:47 Marketing Strategies
35:32 Mindset Shifts
47:29 Follow Jordan
I recently interviewed Reza Saeedi—a marketing strategist and former Director of Marketing at On Deck—about his transition from employee to marketing advisor to employee again with advising as a side venture.
In this episode, we chatted about things like:
Plus many fun tangents along the way!
Whether you currently have a job and are thinking about advising full or part-time, or you’re already independent but looking to get into advisory work, this episode will have a ton of insights to offer you.
Key links and mentioned resources:
So, you want to publish content to attract clients.
Do you start a blog? Hammer out posts on LinkedIn every day? Start a YouTube channel? A podcast?
Good question. I get asked it a lot.
In fact, someone in Mindshare asked me about it again today, so I thought I'd break out my mental model for how I think about publishing and distributing content.
Here is a visual breakdown to look at while you listen to the latest How to Sell Advice podcast episode:
I recently had the privilege of interviewing Brad Hussey—a former web designer turned creator, educator, and community builder.
In this episode, we talk about things like:
Resources & Links Mentioned
Listen here or subscribe via your podcast player.
—kevin
P.S. Like this episode? Share it with another marketer and help them build a more leveraged and profitable marketing practice, too!
The other week, I chatted with former software consultant turned CRM SaaS owner, Reuben Swartz about how to do sales in a way that doesn't feel like selling and instead sets up your relationships for success.
In this episode, we chat about things like:
And a lot more!
If selling isn't your jam—or even if it is—you'll get a ton of value out of this episode.
The mindsets and mental models he shares make it easy to navigate sales conversations without getting mired in tactical "steps" which can often confuse you and put a barrier between you and your prospects.
Resources mentioned:
Thanks for listening, and if you enjoy the show, please share it with a friend!
—kw
Do you have a proprietary framework or methodology you can build an entire business around?
I recently recorded a podcast with Billy Broas, a copywriter, advisor, and educator who has built a business around his proprietary messaging framework, The Five Lightbulbs.
In this episode, Billy and I unpack the Five Lightbulbs and then go deep into how his business works, how he gets clients, and a lot more.
We discuss things like:
Find Billy Online:
Books Mentioned:
I recently decided to rebrand the Mindshare franchise (can I call it that?).
Listen in for all the details!
—kw
Do you focus much on optimizing your website for search engines?
Personally, I don’t really do much beyond the basic best practices. My strategy has been more focused on email, social media, and Golden Goose tactics to build awareness for what I do.
But a part of me feels like I’m missing out—especially as I begin to sell knowledge products to a large potential audience.
That’s why I wanted to talk to Tsavo Neal about how he approaches his marketing and business model. Tsavo gets almost all of his clients and customers through search engine optimization.
It just so happens, he teaches other consultants how to do the same. Which made this episode packed with value.
In this episode of Mindshare Radio, Tsavo and I unpack:
If you've ever thought you might want to get your website ranking better for search engines, get your pencil ready because this episode will show you how.
Mentioned links and resources:
—k
P.S. Want a deeper-dive training on how to do exactly this process? Tsavo shared an over-the-shoulder view for Mindshare members last month on how he does it. Sign up to get access to that plus a library of other training, group coaching, a private Slack community and more. Learn more about Mindshare →
A few weeks ago, I invited Mindshare member and long-time marketing consultant, Mark Evans, to talk shop with me about the business of marketing consulting and fractional CMO work.
This was a really fun episode. We went deep into the nerdy nuances of fractional/interim CMO and advisory work.
Some topics we explored include:
Books mentioned:
Connect with Mark:
The other day, I replied to a Twitter friend's (@RodBurkert) open question:
My question: What is the 'right next best thing' you should do to create the biggest leverage and productivity boost for your practice?I replied with the following:
Taking the expertise in your head and putting it into writing/audio/video, then organizing it into a system or framework so others can learn from you without having to repeat yourself forever.But then I wanted to expand on this idea further since it's core to everything I teach.
That's what this episode is about: how to take your expertise out of your head so you can deploy it without having to repeat yourself forever.
Listen in and let me know what you think.
—k
It's easy to believe that as advisors, we get paid to have all the answers.
We feel like to add value, we need to be able to tell people what to do.
What if instead, our value came from things like:
As technicians, we like knowing the best tool or tactic to use for any situation. As creatives, we like envisioning new ideas and potential futures.
But as advisors, what if we didn't feel like we needed to have all answers, and instead helped our clients explore options until the answers became a little more obvious?
Your value isn't having all the answers. Your value comes from helping your clients make good decisions.
There are a lot of ways to get a result. The key is helping your clients choose the right way for them.
Listen to this episode or subscribe via your podcast player.
—kw
P.S. REGISTER FOR THE UPCOMING WORKSHOP
Next week (January 25 at 11:00 am EST) I'm hosting a live 90-minute workshop (with the recording made available) on how to package, price, and sell custom consulting services. We'll go deep on creating custom proposals that convert, so don't miss this one.
I recently interviewed Kevan Lee, the former VP of Marketing at Buffer and currently Senior VP of Marketing at Oyster.
Kevan is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to leading tech startups to significant growth. To give you an example, he helped Buffer go from $5m to $20m in annual revenue and 100,000 new customers acquisitions per month.
In his first year at Oyster, he helped the company 20x its revenue and build a marketing team comprising over 50 people. He's also involved as an educator and advisor with Reforge, On Deck, as well as a past contributor to ProductLed, and more.
In this interview, Kevan and I explore the realm of advisory work.
We cover topics like:
This conversation was a fun exploration of the world of advisory work. And like all of us, Kevan is still figuring out what works best for him.
You can follow Kevan on Twitter at @kevanlee and subscribe to his Substack at kevanlee.substack.com.
Give this a listen and subscribe to get more interviews like this in the future.
—k
You may be a rock star when it comes to marketing your clients' business.
But when it comes to your own, it might be an entirely different story. And you know what? That doesn't make you a bad marketer.
It's incredibly hard to market yourself—especially if you don't have a system to follow.
In this episode, I break down the three core pillars to attracting more clients:
This might seem simple, and it is. But it's not easy. It takes time, energy, and commitment to build it out and for it to start working for you.
But with any luck, this framework (and the details I talk about in the episode) will make attracting clients a lot easier. When you have clarity, you can really lean into your efforts and start seeing traction faster than simply winging it.
Listen to this episode for all the nuances and details.
—k
What if the way to get your emails read and subscribers to stay subscribed was to lower the bar a little?
Not in terms of quality, necessarily. But in terms of format or type.
Instead of trying to write a grand theory of mathematics every time you publish, what if we treated email more like social media?
What if we aimed for a simple, concise, interesting, and/or fun piece of content?
Something light and consumable. Not overthought. Not pre-judged. Just something you found interesting or valuable.
Would you be able to be consistent with your publishing habits? Would your readers prefer it? Would it keep you interested?
I think yes. But there's nuance, as with all things.
So give this a listen. See if it resonates with your headspace.
See if it helps you overcome that mental block stopping you from sharing your ideas with your subscribers.
And while you're at it, subscribe to Mindshare Radio via your podcast player to get more ideas like this (and interviews coming soon).
—k
The most successful businesses have a high degree of customer-centricity. Think Amazon or Google—they're absolutely relentless about the customer experience.
And in the consulting world, the most successful advisors are the ones who have a high customer-centricity and low self-orientation.
Not sure what this all means? In this episode, I break down how to put your client at the epicentre of your business, how to reduce your self-orientation, and the trade-offs needed to do all of this well.
The odds of you succeeding with new ventures or ideas out of the gate is low. It’s not fun but it’s true.
Even if your idea is good, it might be adjacent to the one the market wants. A small set of tweaks and iterations to the format, offer, or audience might just be what it needs to take off.
And that’s empowering! It means you’re not alone. Nobody figures everything out right away.
It’s easy to get frustrated when things aren’t clicking for you—especially when you’re trying something new that you feel really passionate about.
It can feel like two steps forward and one step back. We look around for answers but get frustrated when nobody offers the magic pill.
There is no magic pill, only iteration and innovation.
We have to hold our vision strong while simultaneously being loose about our best ideas. It’s a fine line between a steadfast vision and being oblivious to what the market wants.
If you are willing to iterate and innovate continually, it’s only a matter of time before your vision and what your audience wants are in complete alignment.
Listen in for more on this topic if you’re in this mode or subscribe via your podcast player.
Do you ever stop to wonder what it is we are really selling as consultants?
Are we selling a website, strategy, or brand identity? Yes... and no. Those are features of our work. And people don't really buy features.
Maybe we are selling new customer growth? Better retention? Ease of use? Those are all great benefits of our work. But let's dig a little deeper.
What is the emotion behind those benefits? What feeling are we really creating with our work?
People buy based on how they feel about the purchase. It aligns with logic, yes. But it's driven by emotion. So it makes sense to explore that emotion people are really seeking inside of what we sell.
I believe most consultants are selling confidence. Give this a listen to see what I mean.
Get this right and it will be a lot easier to create and sell the true benefits of your work.
—k
It's incredibly easy to get sucked into being an employee-like figure when you do fractional leadership work.
When I first got started as a fractional CMO, I basically had two part-time jobs. The money was good but I worked HARD. I knew I needed to create better parameters.
In this episode of Mindshare Radio, I'll break down the five main ways to avoid turning into a set of employee-like hands when you sell fractional CXO services.
We'll talk about things like:
And a ton of nuance in between.
Listen in and let me know what you think—did I miss anything important?
Hit reply and let me know.
—k
P.S. Need help transitioning into advisory/fractional CXO work? Check out my Paid to Think program or join Mindtrust, the no-brainer group coaching and training program for as little as $63/mo. when you pay annually.
This post originally appeared at https://kevin.me/ways
You can think about niching in a lot of ways.
In many cases, the tighter you go, the easier it can be to sell what you offer. People are swimming in options, they want specific when they can get it.
So there are two angles to consider when deciding on how specific you should go with your business.
1. You can get specific about who you serve
The more specific your target market, the broader your focus can be in terms of what you help people with—while still being credible.
If I help multi-location coworking spaces do better marketing, that's a specific target market and a fairly broad way of helping them. It can be reasoned that you can have rare knowledge about marketing in a way that is uniquely applied to multi-location coworking spaces.
If I said I help anyone do better marketing at scale, you can begin to see where the skepticism may come in.
2. You can get specific about the problem you solve
When you're highly specific about the problem you solve, it makes sense that you could solve it credibly for a wide range of industries.
For example, I could say I help people sell their expertise through membership programs. And that could be a reasonably credible positioning given the specificity of the problem being solved.
I don't need to say "I help faith-based dog groomers sell membership programs." The market would be too small. And the same skills or lessons could be applied to far greater contexts.
And this is what strategy is all about.
There's no perfect way to position your consulting business. Specificity helps—but how you apply specificity is where the hard choices are made.
So what trade-offs are you making? How are you being specific about either what you do or who you do it for?
As they say, hard choices, easy life. Easy choices, hard life.
I don't position myself as a fractional CMO.
I might have a fractional CMO service. Or in a sales conversation, I may say that I'm like having a part-time CMO on your team. But I don't call myself a fractional CMO as my top-level positioning.
I'm a consultant. I'm an advisor. I help companies with their marketing strategy.
But I'm not a part-time employee. I don't want to be seen as one. Nor do I want their actual marketing team to be threatened by what may seem like a new boss breathing down their neck.
In this episode, I go into:
The topic is nuanced, but I think it's important if you are selling strategic advisory services.
