Private equity is closing in on the legal industry, and few people have a better vantage point than David Morley, former managing and senior partner at Allen & Overy.
After steering A&O through the 2008 financial crisis, Morley moved into the investment world, chairing a private equity firm and heading up Europe for one of the world’s biggest pension funds.
Earlier this year, he teamed up with fellow A&O alum Wim Dejonghe to launch a consultancy advising law firms and investors on the surge of capital eyeing the profession.
In this episode, David explains why investor sentiment toward law firms has flipped “gradually, then suddenly.” He says private equity’s move into legal mirrors what happened in accountancy a decade ago - starting small before rapidly scaling once investors see proven success. “There’s a level of investor interest we’ve never seen before in the legal sector,” he says.
We talk about what this means for firms of all sizes - from smaller players under pressure to consolidate, to elite firms exploring capital as a growth tool. Morley breaks down how deals are structured, where money would actually go, and why capital brings more than funding.
He also reflects on the limits of the partnership model in funding innovation - and why looming tax and structural changes could accelerate a shift towards more corporate-style models. His message for firm leaders: whether or not you plan to take investment, you need to understand the forces driving it.
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:30 Introduction to David
03:06 Navigating the Financial Crisis
07:14 Lessons from Crisis Management
10:07 The Rise of External Investment in Legal
12:50 Changing Perceptions of Legal Investments
17:00 Market Dynamics and Future Trends in Legal Investments
23:23 The Competitive Landscape of Law Firms
24:19 Investment Opportunities in Legal Sector
25:25 The Role of Private Equity in Law Firms
29:43 Innovative Business Models in Legal Services
33:54 Understanding Private Equity Investments
37:34 Strategic Use of Capital in Law Firms
39:44 Private Equity vs. Traditional Financing
42:35 Future Trends in Legal
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
In this episode, Siobhán Lewington, partner at leading legal headhunter Macrae, joins us to unpack what’s driving the lateral partner market in London.
A former Allen & Overy and Arthur Cox lawyer, Siobhán has more than two decades advising firms on partner hires and team moves giving her a unique view into how City law has changed.
She explains how the market has evolved from the “gentlemen’s agreement” era - when Magic Circle firms avoided poaching from one another - to today’s fiercely competitive landscape dominated by US players. We explore why private capital remains the engine of London’s growth, and what makes a truly competitive platform: from tax and competition support to leverage finance and associate bench strength.
Siobhán also breaks down the New York-London axis, the growing wave of transatlantic mergers, and how firms are positioning themselves in the race to join the global elite. She shares why money alone doesn’t move partners, the real purpose behind multi-year guarantees, and how firms can better integrate lateral hires for long-term success.
Finally, Siobhán offers advice for partners weighing a move - from identifying push and pull factors to finding a genuine sponsor at any prospective firm. Packed with insight on talent strategy and firm identity, this episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the current state of the London market.
Find out more about Macrae at their website: https://www.macrae.com/
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:00 Introduction to Siobhan and Macrae
02:05 Transition from Law to Recruitment
03:23 Evolution of the London Recruitment Market
07:03 Current State of the London Private Equity Market
11:00 Concentration Risks in Private Equity
13:52 The Changing Landscape of Law Firms
16:26 Growth Areas Beyond Private Capital
19:48 Litigation Market Dynamics
21:53 The New York-London Axis
22:15 Mergers and the New York-London Axis
28:34 The Mechanics of Partner Moves
40:09 Advice for Partners Considering a Move
43:28 Strategies for Firms to Attract Talent
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Harvey has become the poster child of the legal AI boom - used by over half of the top 100 US law firms and backed by more than $700 million in funding. But what does the startup actually do for lawyers day to day, and how is it turning hype into genuine impact inside Big Law firms?
In this episode, John Haddock, Harvey’s chief business officer and a former Stripe exec, takes us inside the company’s rapid scale-up. He explains how a 50-person team of ex-Big Law lawyers works directly with firms to embed AI into real workflows, turning the platform into what he calls “a port of first call” for legal teams.
Haddock also lifts the lid on Harvey’s Advanced Legal Researchers - a team of former Big Law lawyers who benchmark and fine-tune every new model release through what the company calls its Big Law Bench. He shares why data, not hype, is the biggest constraint in AI performance, and how Harvey’s partnership with LexisNexis is helping to close that gap.
We also talk about Harvey’s recent investment from European private equity firm EQT, what the company’s expansion into Europe means for the legal market, and why Haddock saw a viral Reddit thread questioning Harvey’s adoption as a positive sign. “It’s proof we’ve crossed into the mainstream,” he says.
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:00 Background on John
03:30 Understanding Harvey's Product and Customer Engagement
06:12 The Role of Chief Business Officer at Harvey
09:02 How Harvey Empowers Lawyers
12:11 Partnership with LexisNexis
17:54 Fine-Tuning AI Models for Legal
21:38 The Buy vs. Build Debate in Legal Tech
24:20 EQT Investment and European Market Expansion
26:37 Competition in the Legal AI Landscape
28:28 Scaling Operations and Talent Acquisition
31:39 Onboarding and Change Management in Legal AI
32:41 Contextualising Legal AI for Enhanced Productivity
36:12 The Future of Integrated Legal Workspaces
38:36 The Reddit Thread and Building Trust in AI
42:24 Challenges of Scaling and Hiring in a Growing Company
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Few people have had a closer view of the modern City law market than Charlie Geffen. As former senior partner at Ashurst, he helped build one of London’s top private equity practices before moving to Gibson Dunn in 2014, where he became global co-chair of private equity.
Today, he splits his time between chairing the taskforce getting the UK ready for T+1 settlement of financial trades, a senior position at the University of Surrey and occasionally weighing in on the big debates shaping the profession - earlier this year, he sparked discussion with a letter to the Financial Times, defending the decision by some firms to strike deals with the Trump administration.
In this conversation, Charlie looks back at four decades of transformation in Big Law - from globalisation and specialisation to the rise of US firms that now dominate the global elite. He explains why American firms’ structure, scale and domestic market have given them a lasting advantage, and why, in his words, “the global Magic Circle is entirely American.”
We also discuss the major transatlantic mergers reshaping the landscape, including A&O Shearman and Herbert Smith Freehills-Kramer Levin, and what the likes of Ashurst can realistically do to compete. Charlie reflects on his own experience leading Ashurst through its growth years, its failed US merger talks, and how the firm ultimately found its footing through reinvention.
Finally, he shares his take on the next phase of disruption: how AI and private equity could drive a wave of consolidation, why law firms will need far fewer people in future, and why, despite it all, he still sees enduring value in the partnership model - and in knowing exactly what your firm is, and what it isn’t trying to be.
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:30 Evolution of the Legal Market
06:45 Comparative Analysis of US and UK Law Firms
09:44 The Rise of US Firms
12:27 Current Landscape of UK Law Firms
17:26 Strategic Insights for UK Firms
19:45 The Rise of Private Equity
22:03 Strategic Decisions in Law Firms
27:23 Transatlantic Mergers and Their Implications
29:45 Big Law Firms Response To Trump Executive Orders
37:51 The Future of the Legal Market: AI and Consolidation
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Hogan Lovells might not be the first name that comes up in conversations about legal AI, but maybe it should. The firm quietly spun up ELTEMATE, a 100-person legal tech subsidiary, to build tools for clients that go beyond hype and deliver real efficiency gains. At the helm is Sebastian Lach, a Hogan Lovells partner who also leads ELTEMATE.
In this episode, Sebastian talks about how ELTEMATE started with just three people around a table in 2019 and has since scaled into a global team creating client-facing technology. Funded entirely in-house, it now builds everything from AI-driven investigation tools to domain-specific tools tailored to compliance and litigation.
We also dig into Sebastian’s views on legal AI more broadly. He’s sceptical about so-called “Swiss Army knife” platforms and argues that the real value lies in specialist, vertical tools trained on the right data and guided by lawyers who know what good looks like. “Lawyers don’t want 60% answers”, he argues. “They want a tool that gives them the right result at the push of a button.”
It’s a conversation about what happens when a Big Law firm takes tech seriously - balancing risk and innovation - and what clients are really asking for when they demand AI.
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
00:50 Sebastian’s Background
02:07 Transitioning from Law to Legal Tech
04:00 Exploring White Collar Crime Law
07:25 The Birth of ELTEMATE
10:34 Funding and Business Model of ELTEMATE
11:39 ELTEMATE's Growth and Structure
13:12 ELTEMATE's Product Suite and Strategy
18:23 The Importance of Domain-Specific Solutions
20:48 Data as a Core Differentiator
24:28 The Future of Legal Tech and Client Needs
28:30 The Vision for ELTEMATE
31:16 Lessons Learned in Legal Tech Innovation
34:48 Concerns About AI in Legal Practice
35:51 Skills for the Future Lawyer
38:02 The Future of the Billable Hour
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
McDermott has just completed one of the biggest Big Law mergers in recent years, tying up with New York’s Schulte Roth & Zabel to create a $2.8 billion powerhouse sitting just outside the top 10 US firms by revenue. The deal was wrapped up in just three months - record speed by law firm standards - and is already producing results.
In this episode, we sit down with Aymen Mahmoud, McDermott’s London managing partner, to get the inside view on how the merger came together, why culture was as important as strategy, and what the combined platform means for clients on both sides of the Atlantic.
He explains why he calls it a “marriage of conviction” and why the firm is betting big on private capital as the driver of its next phase of growth.
We also dig into the London story: how Schulte’s top-tier funds practice changes McDermott’s position in the market, the firm’s plans for a new Mayfair office in 2028, and the ambition to be on every top client’s speed dial for private capital work.
Along the way, Aymen shares candid insights on talent, pay, and how McDermott is trying to do things differently - from matching New York comp in London to giving billable credit for mindfulness.
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:15 The McDermott-Schulte Merger
07:07 Cultural Integration and Success Metrics
12:45 Strategic Growth in London
18:42 Talent Acquisition and Retention
24:40 Leadership and Personal Growth
30:43 Future Vision for McDermott
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Hill Dickinson made headlines earlier this year with one of the boldest law firm marketing moves in recent memory: a multi-million pound deal to put its name on Everton’s new stadium in Liverpool.
In this episode, Peter Jackson - the firm’s long-time managing partner and CEO - takes us inside the decision, what it means for brand recognition, and why giving back to the city was part of the rationale.
Over nearly two decades leading Hill Dickinson, Jackson steered the firm through both rapid growth and tough choices. He recalls the pivotal moment in 2016 when the insurance practice, once a cornerstone of the business, became a drag on profits - and how the bold decision to sell it to Keoghs reshaped the firm’s future. His mantra: be brave, and get your partners onside.
We also explore how Jackson approached culture and values, from rejecting lucrative lateral hires that didn’t fit, to hands-on leadership built around trust and constant communication. For him, sustainable growth always came back to three basics: people, clients and cash.
Finally, Jackson shares his take on the wider market: the rise of external capital in law, the challenges and opportunities it brings, and what he thinks firms often get wrong about private equity investment.
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:30 Peter’s Background and Shipping Law
04:13 The World of Superyachts and Monaco Expansion
06:16 Hill Dickinson in the 1980s: From Liverpool Roots to London Growth
09:03 Leadership Challenges and the Keoghs Transaction
12:08 Strategy, Profitability and the Post-2016 Pivot
14:32 Culture and Values: Building a Cohesive Firm
16:09 The Changing Role of Managing Partner
19:06 Hands-On Leadership and Partner Communication
21:18 Talent, Lateral Hires and Protecting Culture
23:18 Defining Star Partners and Building Teams
25:28 The Everton Stadium Deal: Bold Marketing in Law
30:23 Brand Recognition, Recruitment and Giving Back to Liverpool
35:05 External Capital in Law: Opportunities and Risks
43:12 Leadership Lessons: People, Clients, Cash
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
What role do the Big Four really play in the legal market, and how different are they from traditional firms? In this episode, we sit down with Stuart Bedford, global head of legal at KPMG, to get a first-hand view of how one of the world’s largest professional services organisations is approaching the delivery of legal services.
Stuart reflects on his own career journey, qualifying at Linklaters, building one of the City’s leading corporate practices, and eventually stepping into leadership at KPMG. He explains how his experience across multiple disciplines and jurisdictions shaped his perspective on what clients truly need from their lawyers.
We dig into what sets KPMG Law apart - why they’re not chasing the mega M&A deals that grab headlines, but instead focusing on areas where law, technology, and multidisciplinary teams intersect. From entity management and post-merger integration, to regulatory compliance and legal managed services at scale, Stuart outlines a model that looks very different to Big Law.
Finally, Stuart discusses KPMG’s expansion into the US via an Arizona ABS licence, the firm’s Legal Reimagined programme, and the opportunities created by technology, data and global delivery. If you’ve ever wondered how a Big Four legal arm competes without playing the traditional law firm game, this conversation offers a look inside.
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:15 Introduction & Stuart’s Early Career Path
03:18 Changing Specialisation in Law Firms
05:35 Why Stuart Moved to KPMG
08:32 Rethinking the Big Four’s Legal Offering
13:14 Post-Merger Integration & Entity Management
16:38 Technology, Data & Legal Reimagined
21:17 Delivering Managed Legal Services at Scale
25:39 Talent, Culture & Multidisciplinary Teams
29:18 Embedding Legal Within the Wider KPMG Business
31:40 Have the Big Four’s Legal Dreams Materialised?
33:31 US Expansion & the Arizona ABS Licence
38:02 Looking Ahead: The Future of KPMG Law
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Julian Taylor is senior partner at Simmons & Simmons and one of the City’s most highly regarded employment lawyers. He’s spent over 25 years at the firm and has had a front-row seat to the transformation of the legal profession. In this episode, he shares candid views on the forces reshaping the industry, from the rise of AI to the battle for the best talent.
Julian explains how Simmons is embedding AI into its work - from in-house tools like “Percy” to partnerships with legal tech providers - and why firms that fail to adapt could struggle to survive. He also talks about how AI is changing pricing models, client expectations, and the types of work law firms can take on.
Julian calls newly qualified lawyer pay in some parts of the market “crazy”, warns about the talent market distortions it creates, and explains why Simmons takes a different approach to competing for junior lawyers. He also reflects on the impact of US firms in London and how their intense profitability targets are reshaping the market.
We finish with a discussion on culture and flexibility - including the unique part-time arrangement Julian has maintained for nearly two decades - and why he believes adaptability and openness to change are now non-negotiable for any lawyer building a long-term career.
Chapters
00:01 Introduction
01:15 Julian’s Background and Career
03:21 Simmons' Financial Performance and Sector Focus
06:33 The Role of AI in Law
11:15 Pricing and Client Expectations in the Age of AI
15:10 Building vs. Buying Legal Tech Solutions
19:13 The Future of AI in the Legal Profession
24:58 Training the Next Generation of Lawyers
28:37 Attracting and Retaining Talent in a Changing Landscape
32:39 Flexible Work Arrangements and Work-Life Balance
37:45 ‘Crazy’ NQ Pay And The Impact of US Firms on the Legal Market
43:05 Looking Ahead: Goals for the Future
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Private equity and other forms of external capital are moving into the legal sector - a shift that is very likely to reshape law firm strategy. In this episode, we speak with Travis Lenkner, chief development officer at Burford Capital, the world’s largest provider of legal finance, about why investors are increasingly eyeing law firms and what that means for the market.
Travis shares his unique perspective, having worked as a litigator at Gibson Dunn, served as senior counsel at Boeing, co-founded litigation funder Gerchen Keller Capital (later acquired by Burford), and launched his own law firm before rejoining Burford in 2024.
Now focused on exploring potential equity investments in law firms, Travis explains the forces driving investor interest - from the UK’s long-standing ABS regime to growing recognition of law as a professional services market ripe for consolidation and technology-led transformation.
We discuss the different ends of the market attracting attention, from private equity-backed regional roll-ups to strategic growth capital for top-tier global firms. Travis explains why Burford prefers minority stakes, the kinds of structures that make sense for law firms wary of losing control, and how outside capital can fund strategic hires, technology investment and geographic expansion. He also tackles the challenges of the traditional partnership model and the cultural shifts required to align incentives with long-term growth.
Finally, Travis offers insights on the evolving US market - where regulatory constraints mean law firm investment often looks different - and why he expects both markets to develop rapidly in the next five years.
Chapters
00:45 Introduction to Travis And Career Journey
02:31 Understanding Burford Capital's Role in Legal Finance
04:50 The Financial Model Behind Litigation Funding
05:46 The Rise of External Capital in Law Firms
06:12 Investment Strategies for Law Firms
09:13 The Future of Law Firms in a Competitive Market
13:46 The Evolving Landscape of Law Firm Investments
17:28 Navigating Risks in Law Firm Dynamics
19:20 Understanding Investor Exit Strategies
24:14 Burford's Unique Position in Legal Investments
25:26 Targeting Growth in Boutique Law Firms
29:35 The Future of the US Legal Market
34:24 Burford's Portfolio in Five Years
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Ross McNairn is the founder and CEO of Wordsmith, one of the fastest-growing legal AI startups in Europe. In this episode, Ross shares how Wordsmith is rethinking the in-house legal function - not just with automation, but with a new model for how legal teams can triage and respond to the rest of the business using AI agents.
We talk through the challenges of in-house legal teams, why Wordsmith is laser-focused on corporate legal rather than law firms, and how AI assistants are shifting legal from being perceived as a blocker to a true business enabler. Ross also explains how their customers - including companies like Trustpilot - are using the platform to improve responsiveness and efficiency across functions.
Ross opens up about raising $25 million from Index Ventures, how Wordsmith became the fastest Scottish company to hit a $100 million valuation, and why they’ve been disciplined about staying lean, product-led, and focused on usage over hype. He also shares his thoughts on legal AI funding trends, the law firm vs in-house tech split, and the future of generalist vs vertical solutions in the space.
Whether you’re a GC thinking about legal AI adoption, a lawyer eyeing a career move into tech, or just curious about how legal is changing from the inside, this is a conversation with a founder building at the forefront of the industry.
Chapters
00:45 From Law to Software
00:53 The Role of AI in Legal Workflows
02:11 Introducing Wordsmith
05:08 AI Agents: Enhancing Legal Productivity
08:08 Customer Success Stories: Real-World Impact of Wordsmith
10:57 Sales Strategy: Building Trust in Legal Tech
13:55 Funding and Future Plans: Scaling Wordsmith
16:30 Building a Lean Company
17:27 Hiring for Legal Intelligence
19:06 Motivations For People Joining Wordsmith
20:50 Competitors in the Legal Tech Space
21:17 Wordsmith's Suite of Tools
22:16 Future of Legal Tech Solutions
23:38 Impact of Recent Partnerships in Legal Tech
26:02 Data Needs for In-House Legal Teams
28:00 Investment Boom in Legal Tech
29:27 Wordsmith's Strategy for Success
32:31 Trends in Legal Tech
33:25 Hiring Challenges at Wordsmith
34:01 Vision for Wordsmith in 2030
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
In this episode, we’re joined by Adil Taha, a former investment banker, private equity executive and one of the most experienced PE figures operating in the UK legal sector today.
Adil has led or been involved in multiple private equity transactions across professional services, including the turnaround of several law firms and the recent high-profile rescue of Rosenblatt out of failing listed group RBG Holdings.
We dive into the mechanics of private equity in law - how deals are structured, what PE firms are really looking for, and why so many are focused on buy-and-build strategies in the regional market. Adil gives a candid assessment of what’s working, what isn’t, and why we’ve yet to see a successful PE exit in UK legal.
He also unpacks the challenges of law firm listings, the hidden risks of the full-service model, and why relationship-driven businesses don’t always fit neatly into financial engineering. Finally, we talk about the opportunity Adil sees at the top end of the market: building a lean, high-performance boutique from scratch. For investors, firm leaders, and ambitious lawyers alike, this is an inside look at how private capital is reshaping the business of law.
Chapters
00:45 Adil’s Background and First Law Firm Rescue
02:15 The Rosenblatt Rescue
03:51 The Rise of PE in Legal Post-COVID
06:27 Where PE is Investing Today
09:09 Exit Challenges and Lack of Trade Sales
11:45 Why Law Firm IPOs Don’t Work
14:39 The Culture Clash Between Law and Public Markets
16:08 Trade Sales vs PE: Who’s Buying?
19:03 Why MBOs May Be the Only Exit Path
21:21 Could PE Ever Buy a Top 30 Firm?
23:09 Lessons from DWF and Who’s Vulnerable
25:39 Exit Options for Larger Firms
27:39 How PE Transactions Work in Practice
30:39 How Deals Are Structured: Day One, Rollovers, Earn-Outs
34:45 The Case for Building a Super Boutique from Scratch
37:57 The Super Boutique Vision and Timing
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
In this episode, we’re joined by Ed Parker, managing director at Fides Search and one of the most trusted headhunters in the City legal market.
With nearly two decades of experience advising on partner and team moves, Ed brings a nuanced, data-driven perspective on how top firms are growing, and what that means for lawyers navigating their careers.
We explore the structural shifts happening across the partner talent market, from the aggressive expansion of US firms in London to the growing importance of team moves and due diligence in lateral hiring. Ed explains why some firms are placing massive bets on high-performing partners, how they price those hires, and what really determines whether a client book will travel.
For ambitious associates, this episode is packed with insight. Ed shares honest advice on timing your move, the risks of chasing quick promotions, and how to position yourself for long-term success - whether that’s through internal promotion or switching platforms. He also unpacks the rise of non-equity partnerships and what clients really care about when it comes to partner titles.
Finally, we touch on where the market is headed in the second half the year, from fast-moving jurisdictions like Saudi and Luxembourg to the enduring pull of London as a legal hub. If you're interested in the economics, strategy, and personal dynamics behind law firm hiring, this is one not to miss.
Chapters
00:45 Introduction & About Fides Search
03:45 What Headhunting Actually Involves
07:15 Building a Practice from Scratch
10:15 The State of the Partner Market in 2025
14:15 UK Firms: Adapting or Falling Behind?
17:30 Team Moves vs. Individual Lateral Hires
21:15 The Economics of Big Hires
25:45 Is This an Existential Threat to UK Firms?
30:15 The Rise of Non-Equity Partners
35:15 Advice for Ambitious Associates
43:45 Market Outlook for H2 2025
47:45 Connect with Ed & Fides Search
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
In this episode, we sit down with Richard East, the founding partner of Quinn Emanuel’s London office - the litigation powerhouse that has gone from a 2008 startup to one of the UK’s most profitable disputes firms, with revenues topping £220 million last year. Richard shares how he built the practice from scratch during the height of the financial crisis.
We discuss Quinn Emanuel’s distinctive model: no corporate teams, no panels, no conflicts - and no apologies about taking on the banks. Richard explains why that singular focus has been so powerful, and how the firm’s “door-to-door” approach to marketing - cold-calling and in-person meetings - helped them land early clients that fuelled their growth.
Richard also opens up about recruiting and compensation, including why Quinn refuses to follow the Cravath scale, why they pay comfortably above Magic Circle firms, and why entrepreneurial mindset is non-negotiable for new partners. He describes a culture that rewards independence and drive - and expects associates to own cases, not just take instructions.
We wrap up with Richard’s thoughts on competition, the evolution of the Magic Circle, and what comes next. He shares why he sees massive potential in using AI to stay ahead, why he isn’t afraid of giant mergers, and why after 17 years he still feels like there’s much more to build.
Chapters
00:40 Launching Quinn Emanuel London in 2008
04:00 Building a Litigation-Only Practice from Scratch
07:20 Marketing that Actually Works: Cold-Calling and Door-to-Door Meetings
11:00 Winning Early Clients During the Financial Crisis
14:40 How the Firm Thinks About Talent and Compensation
20:00 Culture, Independence, and Entrepreneurial DNA
24:30 Perspectives on the Magic Circle and Big Law Competitors
29:30 The Role of AI and the Future of Litigation
33:40 Leadership Lessons from 17 Years at the Helm
36:30 Ambition for the Next Chapter
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
In this episode, we speak with Jonathan Keen, head of international legal at Figma - one of the fastest-growing SaaS companies in the world. Jonny leads legal across EMEA, APAC, and Japan, supporting the business through constant product innovation, geographic expansion and a rapidly evolving regulatory landscape.
He shares what it’s really like to be the legal lead at a hypergrowth company, from negotiating major enterprise SaaS deals to navigating complex EU tech regulation. Jonny gives a behind-the-scenes view of how his team supports global scale, and what he looks for in the external law firms Figma relies on.
We also dive into legal tech and AI, and why Jonny cares more about lawyers who understand tech than what tools they use. He shares his view on how AI is impacting in-house teams, and what traits set great in-house lawyers apart.
Chapters
00:40 Jonny’s role at Figma
02:00 What legal looks like inside a rocketship
04:00 A typical day (if one exists)
06:30 Enterprise SaaS negotiations: fast and slow lanes
08:40 How legal supports the business without breaking it
10:00 Working with law firms: what matters
12:30 AI and legal tech at Figma
15:00 The EU regulatory wave
18:00 The compliance burden for mid-market companies
20:00 In-house vs private practice: what AI disrupts
23:00 What he looks for in new hires
25:00 Judgement, humility and curiosity
27:00 Advice for lawyers considering a move in-house
29:30 The future: what’s next for Jonny
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
In this episode, we sit down with Richard Mabey, the co-founder and CEO of Juro. A former Freshfields lawyer, Richard left private practice in 2013 to pursue an MBA and later joined LegalZoom, before launching Juro in 2016. Nearly a decade on, the company is now one of Europe’s leading legal tech startups, helping fast-scaling businesses automate their contract processes and manage legal work with a radically different approach.
Richard talks candidly about his founder journey - from teaching himself to code in the early days, to building a company that's now helping hundreds of legal teams deploy AI agents directly into tools like Slack and Microsoft Teams. We dig into how Juro thinks differently about contract lifecycle management, why Mabey believes the next generation of legal work will be agent-led, and what it really takes to get lawyers to embrace automation.
We also cover why Mabey thinks legal teams are being asked to do more with less, how agentic AI is already substituting junior-level tasks, and why the CLM category may be ripe for consolidation. Whether you're building legal tech, working in-house, or trying to understand what the future of legal work might look like, this episode is full of insight from one of the sector’s most thoughtful founders.
Chapters
00:30 Introduction: From Freshfields to Founding Juro
03:44 Starting Small: Building a Legal Tech Community
07:00 What Scale-Up GCs Really Care About
10:15 The Lawyer’s Role in an AI-First World
13:52 The Impact of Agentic AI on In-House Teams
17:05 The Training Problem for Junior Lawyers
21:10 The End of the Law Firm Pyramid?
24:30 How Juro’s Agents Actually Work
27:48 Replacing Low-Value Work with Automation
30:33 From Founder Doubts to Product Inflection
34:10 Building a Legal Tech Startup in the "Dark Ages"
36:45 Fundraising Lessons and Conviction in the Problem
39:30 How Juro Differs from Traditional CLMs
42:58 Defining the Agentic AI Opportunity
44:42 Why Legal Tech Will Consolidate (Eventually)
46:35 The Vision for Juro and the Future of Legal Work
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Ian Bagshaw is a City law private equity partner now heading up the London office of US law firm Perkins Coie which he launched in 2024. A highly experienced corporate lawyer with nearly 30 years in the field, he is recognised for his leadership in the private equity market at both UK and US law firms.
Before joining Perkins Coie, he was co-head of private equity at White & Case, where he built one of London’s top private equity practices. Before that, he held senior roles at Linklaters (co-head of private equity) and was also a partner at Clifford Chance.
In this conversation, Ian discusses his return to law to lead Perkins Coie's launch in London, emphasising the strategic timing and focus on tech clients and founders. He shares insights on building a startup culture within the firm, the importance of talent experience, and the impact of private capital on the legal industry. Ian outlines his vision for the future of Perkins in Europe, highlighting the need for a differentiated approach in a competitive market.
Chapters
00:40 Introduction to Perkins Coie and London Launch
06:10 Focus on Tech Clients and Founders
13:10 Building a Startup Culture in a Law Firm
17:50 Training and Development Strategies for Talent
19:10 Vision for Perkins Coie in the Next Decade
22:20 Private Capital’s Impact on Big Law
28:44 Investment Dynamics and the Future of Law Firms
34:25 The Changing Landscape of Legal Practice
37:20 Advice for Junior Lawyers
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Shruti Ajitsaria is a partner at A&O Shearman and the head of Fuse, the firm’s legal tech incubator. Since launching Fuse in 2017, Shruti has helped A&O engage with over 60 startups, run dozens of pilots, and turn legal tech from a buzzword into a real driver of value for both lawyers and clients.
In this conversation, Shruti shares how she went from credit derivatives lawyer to leading one of the legal industry's most ambitious innovation programmes. She explains how Fuse works behind the scenes, why A&O Shearman was willing to take a risk on her idea, and what separates the legal tech startups that scale from those that stall.
We also get into how the merger with Shearman & Sterling is expanding Fuse’s reach, what clients really expect from law firms when it comes to tech, and why true innovation in legal isn’t just about adopting tools, but creating a culture that’s open to change.
Whether you’re a founder looking to partner with firms, a lawyer curious about the future of your role, or just someone interested in how a 100-year-old organisation builds like a startup - this conversation is well worth a listen.
Chapters
00:40 From Credit Derivatives to Legal Tech
03:20 How Fuse Was Born
06:17 Launching Fuse and Becoming Partner
08:15 What Makes a Startup Right for Fuse
09:40 Inside the Incubator: How Startups Work with A&O
12:00 Definely, StructureFlow & Building Success Stories
14:23 The Anatomy of a Great Legal Tech Founder
17:50 Fuse’s Impact Inside the Firm
20:41 Legal Tech as Strategy
22:25 Innovation Starts at the Top
26:26 The A&O Shearman Merger and US Expansion
28:23 What Clients Expect in 2025
20:05 Where Legal Tech Disruption Hits First
32:18 Bonus Round: Trends, Hype, and Career Advice
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
In this episode, we speak with Philip Young - a former City litigation partner, founder of boutique firm Cooke, Young & Keidan, and now co-founder of Garfield AI, the first AI-powered law firm to gain regulatory approval from the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA).
Young shares the origin story behind Garfield, which began as a personal frustration with how hard it was for small businesses to recover unpaid debts - even when the law was clearly on their side. After retiring from CYK and taking a road trip across America, he encountered the first wave of generative AI tools and quickly saw the opportunity to build something game-changing: an intelligent assistant capable of running an entire small claims case, from letter before action to trial bundle.
We go deep on how Garfield works, the SRA’s lengthy but supportive approval process, and what it means for the legal industry that a product like this now exists. Young also explains why concerns about overwhelming the small claims courts are misplaced, how he sees AI improving rather than replacing legal work, and why he remains cautious about VC money despite a flurry of inbound interest.
With candid insights on access to justice, the role of human oversight, and how legal services might be delivered in the next decade, this is a conversation about a whole new category of legal services as much as it is about a new AI tool.
Chapters
00:45 From Law to Entrepreneurship: Philip Young's Journey
11:57 The Birth of Garfield AI: Inspiration and Development
24:13 Access to Justice and AI's Role
28:21 SRA Approval Process and Regulatory Challenges
33:30 Garfield's Vision and Future Products
39:45 The Future of Law and AI's Impact on Junior Lawyers
43:30 Finding Garfield and the Story Behind the Name
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
Kerry Westland leads one of the most ambitious innovation functions of any major law firm - a 70-person team at Addleshaw Goddard dedicated to transforming how legal services are delivered (with and without tech).
In this episode, Kerry shares her journey from paralegal to head of innovation, and how AG has built out a tech strategy that blends vendor tools with homegrown solutions - including AGPT, the firm’s in-house AI assistant that’s now used across the business.
We talk through the evolution of AG’s legal tech stack, how the firm approaches ROI, the rise of GenAI, and the practical challenges of implementing new tools in a legacy profession. Kerry also reflects on what the future of the law firm might look like - and why she doesn’t believe in the “end of the people pyramid.”
From document automation to internal product development, from pricing models to practice group engagement, this is a look at how one of the UK’s top firms is operationalising innovation at scale.
Chapters
00:35 The Evolution of Legal Innovation
03:21 Defining Innovation in Law Firms
06:39 Day-to-Day Responsibilities of an Innovation Leader
09:26 Balancing Technology and Process in Legal Work
12:43 Addleshaw Goddard's Tech Stack Overview
15:30 Managing Technology Demands Across Practice Areas
18:33 Impact of Internal Tools on Legal Work
21:31 Adoption and Use Cases of AGPT
24:26 Cost Considerations in Legal Technology
27:19 Evaluating ROI on Legal Technology
30:17 Impact on Billable Hour Model
32:55 Productising Legal Technology
35:04 Disruption from AI in Legal Services
38:53 The Future of Junior Lawyers
40:38 Envisioning the Law Firm of 2035
44:11 Exciting Innovations in Legal Tech
48:46 Career Advice for Junior Lawyers
50:08 Overcoming Risk to Foster Innovation
51:32 Influential Reads in Legal Thinking
About Non-Billable
Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.
Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk