Our guest this week recently published an opinion piece criticizing how the Army undermines its health and fitness efforts through the poor nutrition environments on its installations. We dive into that conversation, looking at both the problems with Army nutrition, and the many ways leaders are working to fix them.
MAJ Christina Deehl is a Registered Dietitian from Army's Medical Center of Excellence where she works in the Directorate of Training and Doctrine. Her recent op ed stirred up a lot of conversation about the gap between what Army leads aspire to in the nutrition domain of H2F and the actual food environments on our installations.
Christina has 16 years of active duty service, including time with H2F at the 101st and XVIII ABC, serving as the command performance dietitian for US Army Special Operations Command, a fellowship with the Olympic Committee, clinical time at a couple hospitals, and two stints as a cultural support team leader.
Around the time we recorded, research by a team she was on was also published: Normative fat-free mass index values based on body composition method in Army personnel
Other references from the conversation:
Fixing the Randolph Sheppard Act
Additional Actions Needed to Implement, Oversee, and Evaluate Nutrition Efforts for Service Members
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On this episode we revisit a popular debate, but with a few new angles. This is not a typical strength vs cardio conversation, since everyone should obviously do both. Instead we focus on the "optimization" challenge of finding an appropriate balance between the two.
Baseline health guidance (both for Americans and globally) calls for 150 minutes of "moderate to vigorous physical activity" weekly, plus two days of muscle strengthening activity. That provides a starting point for minimum activity levels, but what about performance goals?
We chat about strength and endurance standards from a few different sources, as well as research on dose response to strength training vs cardio.
For the Ranger Regiment data mentioned, the more recent version is no longer available since their human performance page has been deactivated, but here's a link to the older data we discuss.
BYU/University of Minnesota study on dose-response association with mortality
Harvard/Iowa State optimum dose study
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This week we're back for round 2 with Brian Carroll. You should definitely go back and listen to our first episode with him before you dive into this one.
We brought Brian back to ask a variety of follow up questions, some our own and some provided by you guys in your responses to the initial episode. The most frequent piece of feedback we got was about his interpretation on MRIs. We get to that a little later in the episode, so stick with it.
Other topics for this discussion include the psychology of recovering from injury, the complexity of the relationship between pain and injury, and for our video viewers he even breaks out some spine models to demonstrate a few of the concepts he discusses.
He mentions Michael Shacklock and neurodynamics a few times, if you want to learn more about that check out their page.
He also mentions a few videos they're making about MRI interpretation, here are links to the first two:
"MRI Case Study: Why They Matter and Why They Don't Tell the Whole Story"
"Does Your MRI Tell the Whole Story?"
Brian also asked that we include the following clarification in response to his exchange with Alex about Elon Musk's role in SpaceX engineering (this is copied directly from Brian's email):
"Elon Musk actually does design rockets and create technology for various aspects of rocket science and aerospace advancement. He oversees engineering and development projects for SpaceX yet only holds bachelor degrees in both economics and engineering from the University of Pennsylvania. He began (but did not complete) a PhD program at Stanford before launching PayPal etc, he lasted 2 days in the program. He credits mentors and reading many books and studies, as have I with MRi's. "
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This week's episode is a crossover with Ray and Travis over at Coaches' AAR. If you're in the tactical human performance space, they're much more focused on the practical aspects of coaching. Where we get into strategic, policy, and cultural issues, they keep it focused on the practitioner's perspective.
Go follow Coaches' AAR on the following platforms!
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On September 30th, Secretary of War Pete Hegseth spoke to an audience of the US military's most senior leaders, announcing a sweeping set of policy reforms. These included a heavy emphasis on fitness, both force-wide and for particular education and training courses.
In this episode we review many of those changes. We start with a rapid overview of the "non-fitness" changes, like grooming standards and adjustments to investigation processes. After than we move into a more focused discussion of the fitness-specific changes and the ramifications these will have.
Drew mentioned our "Fitness Aptitude Test" (FAT), if you want to check that out and try it for yourself, here's a blog post about it.
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On this week's episode we're breaking down two recently released memos that establish guidelines for medical oversight of the Army's H2F teams.
Across the military embedded human performance is becoming a bigger and bigger part of how we train and care for service members, but having so many medical providers operating outside the clinic creates some policy challenges. Whether it's "integrated operational support," H2F, or something else, policies like these are popping up across multiple services.
The first memo is "Credentialing Policy for Certified Athletic Trainers" and it clears up some grey area about how ATs fit into the Army's medical system.
The second is "U.S. Army Medical Command Responsibility for Clinical Quality Management of Holistic Health and Fitness Program" and it applies to all medical providers on H2F teams (not just ATs). It also has important consequences for facility standards in the spaces that H2F teams provide medical care.
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If you enjoy the discussion on stoicism, pre-order our guest's book now!
On this week's episode we're diving deep (get it?) on an extremely unique corner of the military human performance world. Submariners operate in an environment unlike any other, and trying to maintain health and fitness under those conditions involves a variety of challenges. Our guest is uniquely qualified to provide insights about life in this world.
Commander William Spears is a submarine warfare officer in the U.S. Navy. A native of Pineville, Louisiana, William enlisted in the U.S. Navy’s nuclear propulsion program after high school. Upon completing technical training, he was admitted to the United States Naval Academy, graduating in 2008 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering and commissioning as an officer. Today, he also holds defense-related master’s degrees from the Naval Postgraduate School, the Air Command and Staff College, and the Eisenhower School for National Security and Resource Strategy.
William has served in nuclear-powered submarines across a variety of classes and mission profiles, including duty as the Weapons Officer of a fast-attack submarine and the Executive Officer of a Trident missile submarine. Ashore, he has served as a tactical evaluator on an inspection team responsible to assess the combat readiness of U.S. submarines, and he currently works in the Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD CAPE) in the Pentagon. He will return to sea duty in the summer of 2026.
He has his own passion for exercise, which is not always a clean fit with the culture of the submarine community, as you'll hear in this episode.
He also writes on leadership, ethics, and military topics. His book Stoicism as a Warrior Philosophy releases in the US in November.
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Our guest for this episode was brought low by persistent back pain despite being one of the strongest people on the planet. But through his journey to find a solution for that pain, he found a new mission to help others avoid the mistakes he made in the past. His book, "The Gift of Injury: The Strength Athlete’s Guide To Recovering From Back Injury To Winning Again" co-written with Dr. Stuart McGill is highly praised by athletes and rehab professionals alike.
Since entering his first powerlifting meet in 1999, Brian Carroll has since risen to the absolute pinnacle of the sport. Brian totaled 2730 at 275 and 2651 at 242 with more than ten times his body weight in three different classes (220, 242, 275), and both bench pressed and deadlifted over 800 pounds in two other weight classes. He’s totaled 2600 over 20 times in 2 different weight classes in his career. He has squatted over 1000lbs more than 60 times and was the first man to squat of 1300lbs.
After ten years of high-level powerlifting competition and an all-time World Record squat at 220 with 1030, in 2009, Brian was competing for a Police academy scholarship. On a hot and humid July morning, Brian, hurdling over a barricade at 275lbs, landed on, fell, and hurt his back. The resulting back pain has been a huge part of his professional journey, leading him to seek out Stu McGill in 2013 who he latered co-authored The Gift of Injury with in 2017.
It's worth nothing that his 1306lb squat came AFTER all of the back back and working with Dr. McGill.
He owns his own coaching and consulting business Power Rack Strength where he works with a wide range of athletes and frequently delivers professional education for rehab professionals.
"Magnetic resonance imaging of the lumbar spine in people without back pain"
"Does magnetic resonance imaging predict future low back pain? A systematic review"
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Drew is on a side quest to dive into niche areas of military human performance, and this episode is extremely niche. A few episodes ago we mentioned the fitness test for the Marine Corps Body Bearers (which includes bench press, squat, barbell curls, and behind the neck overhead presses). We got some of the details wrong, and thanks to the our audience we were put in touch with a former bearer to set the record straight.
Billy Lashley served as a United States Marine and World Famous Body Bearer from 2019 to 2023. In that time, he performed 625 funerals — including high-profile state and joint services — and took part in Friday night parades and wreath-laying ceremonies at Marine Barracks Washington. His roles within the section included recruiter and instructor, giving him a front-row seat to both the weight of the mission and the responsibility of preparing others for it.
This is small and extremely unique community that upholds some elite performance standards, and our conversation spans recruiting/testing standards, training protocols, and how leaders in the organization maintain the culture.
Billy has much longer hair now, and is even more jacked. Follow him on Instagram at @blashley96.
Here's some official Marine Corps media diving into the organization if you want more after listening to the episode:
Marine Corps Body Bearers Part I
On this week's episode we're tackling a topic we've been meaning to discuss for a long time: Despite being pervasive in both performance and medical spaces, SMART goals are no actually an evidence based way to change health and fitness behaviors. They may even, in some cases, be harmful.
Our guest, Dr. Christian Swann, is a Professor of Psychology at Southern Cross University in Australia where he leads the Physical Activity, Sport and Exercise Research (PASER) group.
Christian's background is in sport and exercise psychology, and his expertise is in goal setting. His research focuses on how to set goals to increase and maintain physical activity, and he is particularly interested in how different goal setting approaches make us feel while we pursue them — as well as how they influence our mental health.
As part of an international team of researchers he published "The (over)use of SMART goals for physical activity promotion: A narrative review and critique." This article aimed to answer a few key questions:
Is the SMART framework based on theory? Is it consistent with existing evidence? Does it consider what type of goal is set? Is it applied consistently? Is it being used as originally intended? Does it carry any risks?
Once you learn the history of SMART goals, some of the answers become a lot less surprising...
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In this week's episode we're breaking down some recently published research. Specifically, "Personalized, Evidence-Informed Training Plans and Exercise Prescriptions for Performance, Fitness and Health" by Henning Wackerhage and Brad Schoenfeld.
Up front, the article itself is an opinion piece, but it's based on an extensive review of the literature, and provides thorough citations. It's a useful article specifically because it synthesizes so much evidence into some practical guidelines for coaches.
The authors advocate for an athlete, client and patient-centered approach whereby an individual’s needs and abilities are the main consideration behind all decision-making. They also lay out a subjective, pragmatic six-step approach that details how to write a training plan or exercise prescription that is partially based on scientific evidence.
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We recently had Mauri on to discuss his research on lactate threshold based training, but after he joined the conversation on our Discord we found out we missed an even more important topic. Fitness plays a huge role in ROTC cadets' ranking, and those rankings determine their choices of component and branch. As an instructor, Mauri's human performance focused approach dramatically enhanced his school's outcomes, so in the conversation we explore what worked.
We discussed news of a cadet's death at Advanced Camp, you can find that story here.
You can find coverage of the ROTC "rebalancing and optimization" (downgrading programs) here.
On July 31st President Trump signed an executive order re-establishing the President's Council on Sports, Fitness, and Nutrition and directing the new council to develop a proposal on bringing back the Presidential Fitness Test. This test figures prominently in the childhood memories of many Americans, with pride for some and trauma for others.
In this episode we break down the latest news within the decades of historical context that got us here.
You can read "The Soft American" here (we consider it mandatory reading for MOPs & MOEs followers)
For background on our mention of physical education in Europe (especially the Turnverein movement) check out our episode History of Army Fitness with Dr. East
For some context on the President's Council on Sports, Fitness and Nutrition, check out our episode with former council member Rob Wilkins
We mentioned Maintenance Phase's episode on the PFT and you can find that here
We also mentioned a similar perspective on the test presented in this article on Vox
Drew referenced the official history of the council provided on the HHS website
Alex referenced the FitnessGram teacher training which provides an overview of the program
This article highlights the lack of academic scrutiny focused on physical education, including FitnessGram
The source of the claim that the average school budget for physical education is $764 annually is this article from Time
You can read the La Sierra High School Physical Education handbook here, including the basic philosophies as well as the specific events and standards
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If you follow the MOPs & MOEs blog, you already know this week's guests from things like his 5 part series "The Other 28 Days" on how to implement human performance for part time service members or his "Maximizing Fitness Efficiency" piece on minimal effective dose training. Members of our discord server know he's always bringing research citations to the conversations happening there.
Mark Christiani is an Army Veteran who served in Ranger Regiment before transitioning into the human performance space. He currently works with O2X as an On-Site Human Performance Specialist at the 81st Readiness Division of the Army Reserve. Mark served as the Brigade Lead Strength and Conditioning Coach for GAP Solutions for not just any brigade, but 44th Medical Brigade where Drew works.
He holds a Master of Science in Sports Medicine from Georgia Southern University and is a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) and Registered Strength and Conditioning Coach (RSCC).
This week's episode we're answer a few audience questions, going through some military fitness news, and discussing some recently published research. It's a bit of rapid fire content, if you want a deeper dive on any of the individual topics, please let us know!
Here's everything we discuss:
Joint Fitness Test Rumors
Air Force Fitness Test Changes
Occupationally Specific Fitness Test for EOD
Marine Corps Body Bearers PT Standards
Updates on Athletic Trainer Contracts
NDAA and Human Performance Funding
Congressional Amendments and Military Spending
Running Injuries and Research Insights
Modernizing Army Dining: A Critical Perspective
MAHA Wins: Analyzing Food Industry Changes
Neck Training: Myths and Practical Insights
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You can find Mauri's podcast on Spotify or on Apple Podcasts
You can download a copy of Mauri’s thesis, “Relationship Between the Lactate Thresholds and Endurance Performance in Trained Runners” here
In this episode we're returning to the topic of how mountain athletes and tactical athletes have similar fitness demands. Mauri is particularly qualified to discuss this topic since he is a bit of both. His perspectives include being an infantry officer, alpinist, coach to endurance athletes, certified mountain guide, and more.
Mauri served in a multitude of leadership roles as an infantry officer in the US Army. During that service he applied many advanced planning and navigation techniques to make mountain missions successful. He adapted the military's operational planning process for use in the mountains by combining military planning and navigation techniques with mountain objectives.
He now leads Tactical Alpinism, where he provides training and education for both tactical professionals and civilians pursuing high levels of performance in the mountains. This includes both physical training and technical mountain navigation.
A few weeks ago we mentioned that the Navy provides pilots with human performance resources, but it turns out we were wrong! A common complaint in that community is "I've been told my entire career that I'm an athlete, but I haven't been treated like one." Our guest this week is a Sports Medicine MD who is working on several initiatives to bring human performance resources to the fleet.
We'll forgive him for his past affiliation with Navy football.
Commander Kevin Bernstein, MD, MMS, CAQSM, FAAFP is currently Director of Sports and Performance Medicine for Naval Special Warfare Group TWO in Virginia Beach, VA. He is also Chairman of the Human Performance Sub-Community for Navy Medicine’s Neuro-Musculoskeletal Readiness Community and Specialty Leader for Navy Primary Care Sports Medicine. He is an Associate Professor of Family Medicine at Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences.
He received his Bachelor of Science in pre-medicine with minors in biology and Jewish studies from the Pennsylvania State University, and his Master of Medical Science and Medical Degree from Drexel University College of Medicine. He completed residency training at Naval Hospital Pensacola where he served as Chief Resident, and fellowship training in Sports Medicine at Naval Hospital Camp Pendleton.
After residency, he reported to Fleet Surgical Team SEVEN forward-deployed 24 months as staff Family Physician on 5 patrols augmenting medical support aboard 3 large deck amphibious platforms (LHA 5, LHD 6, LCC-19) in support of amphibious and expeditionary exercises in 7th Fleet.
He then reported to Naval Health Clinic Annapolis, serving as Team Physician for 10 NCAA D1 teams including Navy football, Director for Public Health, Chair of the Medical Executive Committee, and Sports Medicine faculty for 5 GME residency programs and USUHS medical students.
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This week's episode is just the two of us, and we're discussing a topic that we've referenced a few times on social media: Nazareth Syndrome. One of the simplest ways to explain this phenomenon is "nobody trusts the hometown kid." The origins of this idea are biblical (Jesus was rejected by his own community because to them he was just the carpenter they knew), but the applications are very practical.
Have you ever seen a leader latch onto an idea from a guest speaker or outside consultant that their subordinates have been trying to explain for ages? That's because human nature makes us more receptive to these messages from outsides than from people we're too familiar.
In this conversation we break down how this affects the military, and specifically how it plays out in human performance settings (both within teams, and between the teams and the units they support).
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In the final part of this series we cover several topics we didn't get enough clarity on in the first two segments: an update on MAHA, Lifestyle Medicine, and how research could be better communicated.
Rachele Pojednic, PhD, EdM, FACSM, is the Director of Scientific Research & Education at Restore Hyper Wellness, an Adjunct Lecturer at Stanford University and the Director of Education at Stanford Lifestyle Medicine. In addition, she serves as a Research Associate at the Institute of Lifestyle Medicine at Harvard Medical School and is an award-winning Instructor at the Harvard Extension School. Previously, she was a tenure-track faculty member at Norwich University and Simmons University.
For the past decade, Dr Pojednic’s work has examined nutrition, supplementation and physical activity interventions on muscle physiology, performance and recovery, as well as muscle related chronic disease. She has received research funding from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) National Heart Lung and Blood Institute (NHLBI) and the Vermont Biomedical Research Network (VBRN) an NIH IDeA Network of Biomedical Research Excellence (INBRE) program. She has published extensively on vitamin D and cannabidiol (CBD) supplementation and their effects on skeletal muscle in health and disease, muscle physiology and aging with a focus on sarcopenia, physiologic metrics of muscle recovery in warfighters, the effects of nutrition and exercise interventions on diseases such as obesity and type 2 diabetes, and educational models for healthcare professionals focused on nutrition and exercise.
Dr. Pojednic received her PhD in Biochemical and Molecular Nutrition & Exercise Physiology from Tufts University. She also holds a Masters in Education in Physical Education and Coaching from Boston University and a BS in Cardiopulmonary and Exercise Science from Northeastern University.
She holds a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) certification from National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA) and is board certified Health Coach from the National Board of Health and Wellness Coaches (NBHWC).
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In part 2 of this 3 part series we finally get to the primary topic we invited Rachele onto the podcast to talk about: the gap between human performance research and the practitioners who work to implement it every day.
Some specific topics include the the state of human performance research, consumer trends, recovery modalities, supplements, and how all these things get funded.
Rachele Pojednic, PhD, EdM, FACSM, is the Director of Scientific Research & Education at Restore Hyper Wellness, an Adjunct Lecturer at Stanford University and the Director of Education at Stanford Lifestyle Medicine. In addition, she serves as a Research Associate at the Institute of Lifestyle Medicine at Harvard Medical School and is an award-winning Instructor at the Harvard Extension School. Previously, she was a tenure-track faculty member at Norwich University and Simmons University.
For the past decade, Dr Pojednic’s work has examined nutrition, supplementation and physical activity interventions on muscle physiology, performance and recovery, as well as muscle related chronic disease. She has received research funding from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) National Heart Lung and Blood Institute (NHLBI) and the Vermont Biomedical Research Network (VBRN) an NIH IDeA Network of Biomedical Research Excellence (INBRE) program. She has published extensively on vitamin D and cannabidiol (CBD) supplementation and their effects on skeletal muscle in health and disease, muscle physiology and aging with a focus on sarcopenia, physiologic metrics of muscle recovery in warfighters, the effects of nutrition and exercise interventions on diseases such as obesity and type 2 diabetes, and educational models for healthcare professionals focused on nutrition and exercise.
Dr. Pojednic received her PhD in Biochemical and Molecular Nutrition & Exercise Physiology from Tufts University. She also holds a Masters in Education in Physical Education and Coaching from Boston University and a BS in Cardiopulmonary and Exercise Science from Northeastern University.
She holds a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) certification from National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA) and is board certified Health Coach from the National Board of Health and Wellness Coaches (NBHWC).