Dr. Bethany Johnson returns to the show to share the deep history of the plague, and how we should be thinking about it today. She talks about how anti-Chinese and anti-Mexican sentiment impacted the mitigation and spread of the plague in the early 1900s. Bethany also talks about how climate change may impact infectious disease, antibiotic resistance, lyme disease, pet safety, mitigation measures, and what the defunding of government organizations will mean for us.
She also has advice for all of those of us–and our dads out there–with wood piles in our backyard.
Plus a few updates about The Means Sibs.
Bethany's first episode on measles!
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
ABC News: Casey Means Senate statement
Calley Means has left the White House
WHO Manual for plague surveillance, diagnosis, prevention and control
Traces of life in the death registries of the 1630 plague in Milano
We’ve been a lot of places with RFK Jr, his conspiracy theories, magical thinking, lies, his meltdowns in front of Senate committees, and seen that he doesn’t understand half of the things he talks about.
Exhibit A: He thinks babies are grown in placentas
Let’s make sure we’re clear on RFK’s indisputable, irrefutable cause of autism going forward. Today I share his gold standard science-certified cause of autism.
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Kyle Davis, MSW, LICSW, joins the show to talk about his experience with Assertive Community Treatment for supporting people with severe and persistent mental illness. He shares details of that model today and what autonomy can actually look like when people are out of institutions and living in society. In Jessica’s interview with psychiatrist Dr. Carole Lieberman, Dr. Carole shared her belief that one of the biggest problems in psychiatry is that people with mental illness were released from institutions, and given the least restrictive environment for their care. This claim warranted a full follow-up episode and Kyle joined the show to share his thoughts about the claim that people can develop insight while living in institutions and he shares how a multi-disciplinary approach proves that people heal best in their communities and is more beneficial long-term than having more community clinics.
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
MAHA and Cuteservatives are okay with spending millions on measles outbreaks yet want to control people’s food choices in the name of “health.” People are able to buy raw milk with SNAP, yet shouldn’t be allowed to buy a candybar? The math is not mathing. Today’s episode is a follow up to the episode released 10/1/25, “Fauci Needs to Be Locked Up!” with Dr. Carole Lieberman. Jessica responds to some of Dr. Carole’s claims, and has a good time with her own acronym for ways to avoid getting COVID.
THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS!
ADHD medications and substance use
Clip Jessica posted on Instagram of Dr. Carole
RFK fires CDC workers and then brings them back
Measles can cost $47K per case
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Jessica Wilson, MS. RD. is joined by Blake Flaugher, MPH, to give Jessica a full breakdown of poppers and RFK Jr.’s AIDS denialism. Jessica is very curious about butt stuff and Blake expertly answers her questions. He also answers a listener question about the spectrum of asexuality. The two have this conversation at a brewery and got the opportunity to make things awkward! Blake updates Jessica on the state of sex education in 2025 and shares what he’s found grounding and motivating as he continues to do this work.
Blake's first Making it Awkward ep
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Psychiatrist Dr. Carole Lieberman, M.D., M.P.H. joins Jessica Wilson, M.S. RD. for a robust conversation about COVID, Dr. Fauci, RFK Jr., the MAHA report and whether supplements can fix our mental health.
Dr. Carole specializes in the psychology of terrorism, criminal behavior, and political breakdown. She’s a frequent guest on Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, and leading patriot platforms. Her bold insights expose how psychological tactics once used by foreign enemies are now being weaponized against the American people. Dr. Lieberman connects the dots between radical indoctrination, media-fueled hysteria, and how psychological warfare is now being deployed inside the U.S.—not just abroad.
I was so compelled by this interview that I’ll be having a follow up episode exploring her ideas! If you have thoughts, ideas or want to send a voice memo with your feedback about this episode you can email them to MakingitAwkwardpod@gmail.com.
Dr. Carole on FOX news re: the VP debate
Recent Interviews with Carole Lieberman
Kaila Yu, author of the newly released Fetishized; A Reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism, and Beauty, joins Jessica Wilson, MS RD the show to talk about the fetishization of Asian women.
Kaila reflects on the women in the media who influenced her, and her path into the pinup and import modeling industry. She devotes a chapter to the book and film Memoirs of a Geisha and Jessica and Kaila talk about the ways the book and movie continue to impact societal views of Asian women.
They also got into the origins of the model minority myth and the connections to trad wives today.
In Fetishized Kaila also explores the legacy of U.S. occupation in shaping Western perceptions of Asian women.
Kaila in Teen Vogue re: Love Island
Fetishized; A Reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism, and Beauty
“Oxford Study” on social media
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
MAHA’s Making Our Children Healthy Again Strategy Report is out, and “strategy” is a generous term for this document. Beef farmer Trampus Harmon and public health dietitians Selena Salfen and Meghan Cichy return to the show to share their thoughts.
Post production note: Dr. Casey Means has resumed the path to becoming Surgeon General and is declaring her conflicts of interest.
Dr. Jessica Knurick newsletter
Trampus on collagen and beef tallow
Meghan and Selena on the first MAHA report
Meghan and Selena on Levels and CGMs
Meghan and Selena on the first 100days of RFK
Selena’s Regrifting episode on Casey and Calley Means
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Would you ever add chia seeds to your latte? Levels Health, a health-tech startup co-founded by presumptive Surgeon General Casey Means, is a deeply unserious company and provides both hilarious and irresponsible guidance on its app.
Public health dietitians Selena Salfen and Meghan Cichy return to the show to discuss our 30 days of using a CGM paired with the Levels app.
Jessica didn’t find what she was looking for in her CGM data and laughed at the app’s inaccuracies.
Meghan thought she was working harder than Levels, and found both more helpful and nicer CGM feedback with ChatGPT.
Selena shared her history with health anxiety and her longer term use of a Stelo CGM. She shares how her experience was impacted when Levels provided her with incorrect data and biometric analyses.
The three get into whether we should be using CGMs and if so, under what conditions.
The three also discuss the most recent Levels podcast #280 and how it seems to answer a lot of concerns Selena and Jessica had in the CGM intro episode. The episode also discussed a lack of research to back up claims made by Levels and Casey Means herself. Host Ben Grynol and guest Dom D’Agostino, PhD took an unexpected turn and veered into the closed off “adult” section of Blockbuster; could there be a tie to food choices and curiosity?
Casey’s Instagram post with her food scores
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Journalist Jamie Ducharme joins the show for the 100th episode!! She talks with Jessica about her experiences after the TIME magazine article, “Still Processing; Not all Ultra-Processed Foods are the same. Or, some argue, even unhealthy.”* was published. RFK Jr entered the chat about the article and things got a bit out of hand.
The two talk about food as identity and nutrition journalism today and why there seems to be a lot of stories that don’t add much to the conversation.
*This is the print edition title. The online title changed to Why One Dietitian is Speaking Up for Ultra Processed Foods, as discussed in this episode.
Jessica’s ultra-processed food experiment results
Jessica’s ultra-processed food experiment parameters
Jessica’s Slate op-ed: Ultra-processed Foods Have a Terrible Reputation. They Don’t Deserve It.
Avoiding UPFs may DOUBLE weight loss
Marty Makary on The Conversation
Jessica reading feedback she got about TIME
This episode is sponsored by BIG FOOD
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Bryan Johnson made a fortune and then decided to spend it on rivaling Jesus Christ and developing his Blueprint supplement line.
Johnson was born, raised and married Mormon before leaving that religion and family to pursue eternal life on his own. He is the health and tech crossover personified. His quest for longevity has led him to replace his plasma with that of his teenage son, and receive gene therapy in an unregulated area of Honduras. Johnson’s life is pretty much an algorithm, which is fitting because he believes we should fire ourselves because our brains can’t be trusted.
The Netflix doc about his quest to not die was released this year and Jessica Wilson, MS RD is joined by editor extraordinaire, Jen Jacobs, to discuss it. Jen is a cult enthusiast and breaks down what about Johnson’s quest smells fishy.
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Conspirituality podcast about Johnson
Dr. Maisha Davis joins the pod for a hilarious chat about using constant glucose monitoring devices (CGMs), the Levels app and the Oura ring. The two talk about how and why collecting and reviewing health data can be comforting to some people, and also how using a CGM could be a slippery slope.
Jessica and Maisha are currently using the Dexcom 7 and they share what their experiences have been using that brand. Maisha took extra steps to calibrate the CGM while Jessica didn’t go through the trouble and the two talk about how a CGM is only as good as its reliable responses.
The two discuss the case of Cassie Cattie, a Nurse Practitioner, whose Oura ring detected her cancer 8 months before she received a diagnosis, but was that information helpful?
Maisha also introduces us to their newest bff, the Ninja Creami and the secret to eating ice cream for breakfast.
You can find more information about CGMs in this episode.
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
What can listeners take from Jessica’s conversation with Dr. Robert Lustig? She looks at the interview through a historical lens and addresses eugenics and war. She then shares some possible present day applications. Jessica also shares feedback she’s gotten from listeners and from a few people working for UCSF.
Lustig’s article in Frontiers: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2023.1098453/full
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Dr. Lexi Brown returns to the show to talk to Jessica about her hospitalization last year and the options she was given to treat her epilepsy. Not interested in brain surgery, Jessica was willing to try the next option: a ketogenic diet. Since January Jessica has been trialing a ketogenic diet to mixed results, mostly due to her questionable choices. Today she’s sharing what impact the diet has had on her for the past seven months and what she, reluctantly, should do going forward. Lexi talks to Jessica about taking her health seriously and how she should go about her CGM experiment.
Keto diets for epilepsy in kiddos
Jayson Carr recently died from a brain eating amoeba 🙁
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
RFK Jr wants us all to be using wearable devices! Presumptive Surgeon General, Casey Means, co-founded Levels Health which pledges to unlock our metabolic health through the use of a constant glucose monitor(CGM). What is a CGM, what promises are made by Levels, and should we care? Jessica and Selena Salfen are going to find out! The two have teamed up in August to use a CGM, link it to Levels and let the app work its biometric magic. The two will be optimized in just two weeks, according to Dr. Robert Lustig, medical advisor to Levels.
Today is just an introduction, there’s so much more to say about wearables and personal data, we will be back with more of a conversation and our metabolic results!
Lustig on Levels; understanding your lab results
RFK Jr at Energy and Commerce hearing
Take Back Your Health campaign
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Chrissy King joins Jessica Wilson, MS RD for a conversation about being childfree by choice. Chrissy talks about how she made her decision and how Jessica didn’t ever think it was a choice she needed to make. Chrissy got to share her thoughts on many things including the marketing of parenthood, the idea of it taking a village to raise a child and aging like the Golden Girls.
The two talk about how they’ve been asked about their decision not to have kids 347 times but it’s not the norm to randomly ask parents why they decided to have kids.
They both talk about how much their moms poured into their upbringing and how that impacted how they viewed them and their decision not to have kids. They also talk about what it’s like to live in a society in which parenthood, particularly motherhood, is the norm.
After wrapping this conversation Chrissy and I discussed the potential for backlash from this conversation and that parents might take our choices personally. Either way we’d love to hear your feedback!
Motherhood Should Come with a Warning Label
Re-release! Originally published 9/14/23. After receiving an email from Dr. Robert Lustig about his concerns with Jessica's work she was fortunate enough to catch Dr. Lustig on the phone for this interview. In addition to giving her advice on what to tell a patient who needed to choose between a can of ravioli or nothing he shared his beliefs about calories, metabolic health, starvation, and how he distinguishes between what an eating disorder is and what it's not.
Content Note: This episode discusses topics that may be distressing to those who are food insecure, live in areas of food apartheid, experience anti-fatness, and/or have disordered eating.
Part 2 of this episode will air in two weeks.
If you have comments, feedback and/or analysis you can email or send a voice memo to makingitawkwardpod@gmail.com.
Dr. Lustig's website
His profiles at UCSF and here.
Lustig's article that he sent to Jessica.
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
Originally published 9/14/23
Jessica is joined by Lindsay Lee Wallace for the second of two episodes about the womanosphere. The two talk about the performance of the womanosphere, and more of the media side of things including skinnytok and Evie magazine. Evie magazine is the conservative magazine for cis women that encourages us to seek truth and find beauty. Jessica gets the honor of introducing the new body ideal to Lindsay and hears her response.
Lindsay and Jessica start by talking about the politics of food and the connections to UPF hysteria.
Young conservative women build an alternative to the manosphere
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
The womanosphere is here! Are we ready? In the first of two episodes exploring the womanosphere and what it means for us, dietitian and author Jessica Wilson is joined by Cecily Nelson-Alford to talk about feminism and gender. The two discuss Evie Magazine, social media and why the messages of the womanosphere might be appealing. Cecily talks about how value is attached to womanhood in society and she connects it all with a discussion of the Overton window.
Young conservative women build an alternative to the manosphere
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Jessica Wilson's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies
50% off Ozempic for Pride!!! Jessica heads back to NYC this year, this time over Pride weekend rather than before.
A year ago Kent Thosmas, MSW joined Jessica to talk about this ad and her visit to the clinic offering the deal, and what this means for gay men. Kent shared how his Christianity played into his eating disorder and the two talk about queer men, and how religion, queerness, and health are connected. They also talk about the normate body and hardness for gay men.
Dr. Jeff Iovanonne
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Jessica's book: It's Always Been Ours; Rewriting the Story of Black Women's Bodies