🎧 Scaling Smart: How to Grow Without Going Broke with Cash Flow Mike
Episode Summary
What if your business is growing... but your bank balance is shrinking?
In this episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, Richard sits down with Mike Milan — aka Cash Flow Mike — to unpack one of the most misunderstood aspects of scaling: cash flow.
Mike has built 14 companies, taught over 25,000 business owners, and helped uncover more than $150 million in hidden cash. From his early days running a hotel staffing company to building bar-restaurants and eventually scaling fintech software, Mike shares the gritty truth about growing broke — and how to avoid it.
If you’ve ever thought profit was enough… or found yourself staring at your accounts wondering where the money’s gone, this one’s for you.
What We Cover in This Episode
Resources & Mentions
Connect with Mike Milan
Connect with Richard Lee
💬 Like this episode?
Please subscribe, leave a rating & review, and share it with a founder who’s scaling — or struggling.
Eric Malka took a $12,000 investment and turned it into a global brand. Then came the financial crisis, burnout, and one of the biggest lessons of his life.
In this episode, I sit down with Eric Malka – serial entrepreneur, investor, and co-founder of The Art of Shaving – to unpack the unfiltered reality of building a premium brand, scaling with purpose, and navigating chaos when things don't go to plan.
We talk through:
🧳 His early start as a broke 17-year-old immigrant in New York
🩳 Selling board shorts in Puerto Rico – and learning the hard way
🚀 How he bootstrapped The Art of Shaving from a single store to $10M turnover
💥 What went wrong during the Procter & Gamble acquisition and 2008 crash
🧠 His “crawl-walk-run-fly” framework for sustainable growth
🛠️ Crisis management, founder stress, and how to actually avoid burnout
💡 Why coaches aren’t just for failing businesses – and what makes a great one
Whether you're just getting started or preparing for scale, Eric’s honest reflections on risk, resilience, and reinvention will resonate.
What if your business didn’t need to get bigger to be better? What if scaling didn’t mean selling out — or burning out?
In this episode, I’m joined by Stephanie Hayes, a business architect and exit strategist who helps small and mid-sized business owners design growth around who they are — not just what the market says they should be.
We dig into the unexpected side of exit planning, including:
Why exit strategies aren’t just for big companies
The 3 types of founders who think they want to sell (but maybe don’t)
What operational exits look like — and why they’re so freeing
9 types of assets you might already have in your business
The real reason most founders feel “done” — and how to reconnect with purpose
Why aligning your business to your values changes everything
Stephanie also breaks down the different kinds of exits — from clean sales to employee buyouts — and how to work out which one actually fits your future.
If you're feeling stuck, misaligned, or unsure of what scaling should look like, this episode will give you clarity, options, and a fresh way to value what you've already built.
🔗 Resources & Mentions:
🎧 Listen now on your favourite podcast platform: https://pod.link/1804985577
Stephanie’s website: https://stephaniehayes.biz
Connect with Stephanie on LinkedIn: Stephanie Hayes
Richard’s website: https://richard-lee.co.uk
What if your business didn’t need to get bigger to be better? What if scaling didn’t mean selling out — or burning out?
In this episode, I’m joined by Stephanie Hayes, a business architect and exit strategist who helps small and mid-sized business owners design growth around who they are — not just what the market says they should be.
We dig into the unexpected side of exit planning, including:
Why exit strategies aren’t just for big companies
The 3 types of founders who think they want to sell (but maybe don’t)
What operational exits look like — and why they’re so freeing
9 types of assets you might already have in your business
The real reason most founders feel “done” — and how to reconnect with purpose
Why aligning your business to your values changes everything
Stephanie also breaks down the different kinds of exits — from clean sales to employee buyouts — and how to work out which one actually fits your future.
If you're feeling stuck, misaligned, or unsure of what scaling should look like, this episode will give you clarity, options, and a fresh way to value what you've already built.
🔗 Resources & Mentions:
🎧 Listen now on your favourite podcast platform: https://pod.link/1804985577
Stephanie’s website: https://stephaniehayes.biz
Connect with Stephanie on LinkedIn: Stephanie Hayes
Richard’s website: https://richard-lee.co.uk
What if scaling success didn’t mean scaling stress?
In this episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, I’m joined by Rachael Edmondson-Clarke – executive coach, leadership psychologist, and former corporate leader who learned the cost of overperformance the hard way.
Rachael shares the moment her body said “no more” – collapsing before a board meeting – and how it became the wake-up call that transformed her leadership, mindset, and career.
We explore the hidden traps of high-performance culture, including:
🔥 Why energy – not mindset – is the foundation of leadership
🧠 How to lead with emotional capacity, not just capability
💬 Why great leaders ask better questions (and what to do with the “stinky fish” in the room)
💡 The three-month values check-in that can prevent burnout before it begins
🤝 How to create cultures that feel psychologically safe, engaged, and human
This one is practical, reflective, and deeply relevant for anyone trying to build something meaningful – without burning out in the process.
🎧 Episode Title:
Scaling Intentionally: Startup, Growth, Balance, Empire?
📌 Episode Summary:In this episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, I’m joined by Dave Sobel – tech entrepreneur, podcaster, and founder of MSP Radio. Dave has scaled businesses, gone through acquisition and IPO, and now runs a lean media company focused on helping IT service providers navigate growth.
We dive deep into the idea that growth isn’t one-size-fits-all. Dave shares the “modes” every founder cycles through – from startup to growth, balance, and empire – and how to recognise when it’s time to switch. We also unpack the emotional side of business: letting go, taking risks, managing relationships, and why founders shouldn’t feel trapped by the company they created.
🧠 What You'll Learn:
🔗 Links & Resources:
🔔 Subscribe & Follow:Enjoyed the episode? Follow Scaling Up, Not Giving Up wherever you get your podcasts. And if you’re feeling generous – leave a review!
📰 Bonus insights and articles at: https://richard-lee.co.uk
You’ve heard it before: “Our people are our greatest asset.”
But if that’s true, why don’t they show up on the balance sheet?
In this episode, I’m joined by Dave Bookbinder — business valuation expert, best-selling author, and host of Behind the Numbers. Dave is on a mission to shift how we think about business value — and prove that culture, empathy, and leadership are more than “soft stuff.” They’re strategic drivers of growth and equity value.
We explore why most M&A deals fall short of promised synergies, how culture shows up in your valuation (even if it’s not a line item), and why your star performer might be quietly sabotaging your exit plans.
🔍 What We Cover
Why your most valuable assets are invisible on your financials
The Tony the Tiger case study: homegrown IP vs acquired intangibles
Why most M&A deals fail — and what human capital has to do with it
Culture change as a valuation strategy (and how long it really takes)
Toxic employees: the hidden cost even your CFO is missing
Founder dependency: the risk that tanks your exit
What empathy has to do with EBITDA
The three people-metrics Dave wishes every annual report included
Dave’s now-famous quote that’s been shared around the world
🔗 Connect with Dave
📚 The NEW ROI series and A Valuation Toolbox
🎧 Behind The Numbers podcast
💼 LinkedIn – Dave Bookbinder
✨ Quote to Remember
“The value of a business is a function of how well the financial capital and the intellectual capital are managed by the human capital. You’d better get the human capital part right.” — Dave Bookbinder
🔗 Links & Resources
Visit: richard-lee.co.uk
Subscribe: Scaling Up, Not Giving Up on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
In this episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, Richard Lee sits down with John Makarewicz — an entrepreneur who scaled Mark Spain Real Estate to over 650 people and led it through a nine-figure private equity exit.
Now the Managing Partner at Ferris Capital Partners, John has raised over $40M in his first year, focused on acquiring and transforming multifamily properties. But this conversation isn’t just about deals — it’s about people, process, and building companies that last.
Together, Richard and John dive into:
How John scaled a brokerage by rethinking the traditional real estate model
The hiring system that helped him build high-performance, high-culture teams
Why servant leadership beats ego — especially in high-growth environments
How curiosity, empathy, and adaptability fuel long-term success
What it means to lead through uncertainty (and why there’s never a “perfect time”)
Whether you’re growing a team, raising capital, or navigating chaos — this episode is packed with practical wisdom, real stories, and frameworks you can use right now.
📌 Links & Resources:
Learn more about John’s work: https://www.fulloutinvesting.com
Connect with John on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/john-makarewicz-23589a37
Richard’s Substack, articles & podcast hub: https://richard-lee.co.uk
Listen on your preferred platform: https://pod.link/1804985577
In this episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, Richard Lee sits down with John Makarewicz — an entrepreneur who scaled Mark Spain Real Estate to over 650 people and led it through a nine-figure private equity exit.
Now the Managing Partner at Ferris Capital Partners, John has raised over $40M in his first year, focused on acquiring and transforming multifamily properties. But this conversation isn’t just about deals — it’s about people, process, and building companies that last.
Together, Richard and John dive into:
How John scaled a brokerage by rethinking the traditional real estate model
The hiring system that helped him build high-performance, high-culture teams
Why servant leadership beats ego — especially in high-growth environments
How curiosity, empathy, and adaptability fuel long-term success
What it means to lead through uncertainty (and why there’s never a “perfect time”)
Whether you’re growing a team, raising capital, or navigating chaos — this episode is packed with practical wisdom, real stories, and frameworks you can use right now.
📌 Links & Resources:
Learn more about John’s work: https://www.fulloutinvesting.com
Connect with John on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/john-makarewicz-23589a37
Richard’s Substack, articles & podcast hub: https://richard-lee.co.uk
Listen on your preferred platform: https://pod.link/1804985577
🎙️ Resilience Over Perfection with Gary Parsons
What happens when success on paper doesn’t match how you feel inside?
In this powerful episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, Richard Lee sits down with Gary Parsons — founder, board advisor, and host of Leaders in Disguise — to talk about the emotional reality of growing a business and what it takes to walk away when the cost becomes too high.
Gary built a multi-million-pound people consultancy, expanded internationally, led a team through rapid growth — and quietly burned out. He opens up about the pressures of leadership, the shame of being on antidepressants while collecting awards, and the guilt that came with stepping back.
But this isn’t just about burnout — it’s about recovery. And why, if Gary were investing in a founder today, he wouldn’t pick the polished one. He’d pick the one who’s struggled and survived.
💬 In this episode:
🌐 More episodes, newsletter & resources → richard-lee.co.uk
Gabriel Jarrosson has invested over $40M in more than 100 Y Combinator startups. But before becoming a VC, he was a founder — scaling seven companies (some to exit) and bootstrapping to $1M ARR with zero employees.
In this episode, Gabriel joins Richard Lee to talk about what founders really need to know before raising capital. It’s a candid, practical conversation that cuts through the hype around venture funding and digs into what actually builds resilience and power in a startup.
We cover:
Why the best time to raise is when you don’t need the money
The personal risk most founders ignore — and how to de-risk without selling out
The emotional cost of staying too long in a business that’s “doing okay”
What makes a pitch deck land (and what turns investors off)
One AI startup that blew Gabriel away — and what it teaches us about product-market fit
This one is packed with founder truth bombs, hard-won lessons, and a refreshing perspective on growth without giving it all away.
Gabriel Jarrosson has invested over $40M in more than 100 Y Combinator startups. But before becoming a VC, he was a founder — scaling seven companies (some to exit) and bootstrapping to $1M ARR with zero employees.
In this episode, Gabriel joins Richard Lee to talk about what founders really need to know before raising capital. It’s a candid, practical conversation that cuts through the hype around venture funding and digs into what actually builds resilience and power in a startup.
We cover:
Why the best time to raise is when you don’t need the money
The personal risk most founders ignore — and how to de-risk without selling out
The emotional cost of staying too long in a business that’s “doing okay”
What makes a pitch deck land (and what turns investors off)
One AI startup that blew Gabriel away — and what it teaches us about product-market fit
This one is packed with founder truth bombs, hard-won lessons, and a refreshing perspective on growth without giving it all away.
In this episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, Richard Lee sits down with seasoned entrepreneur and business coach Pete Mohr to talk about the real journey from being stuck in the day-to-day to building a business that works for you — not the other way around.
Pete shares 30+ years of lessons scaling businesses, including:
Bootstrapping his first franchise from $20k in savings to successful exit
How he moved from working in the business to working on the business
Why building systems and processes is the real key to scaling
How to avoid burnout by letting go of tasks you don’t love
Why you need an exit plan — even if you never plan to sell
Whether you're just starting out or thinking about life after business ownership, this episode will challenge your mindset and show you what’s possible when you shift from operator to owner.
Mentioned in this episode:
Pete’s coaching and resources: pete-mohr.com
✨ Tone and Audience:
For founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs scaling sustainably
Practical, real-world, motivational without fluff
In this episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, Richard Lee sits down with seasoned entrepreneur and business coach Pete Mohr to talk about the real journey from being stuck in the day-to-day to building a business that works for you — not the other way around.
Pete shares 30+ years of lessons scaling businesses, including:
Bootstrapping his first franchise from $20k in savings to successful exit
How he moved from working in the business to working on the business
Why building systems and processes is the real key to scaling
How to avoid burnout by letting go of tasks you don’t love
Why you need an exit plan — even if you never plan to sell
Whether you're just starting out or thinking about life after business ownership, this episode will challenge your mindset and show you what’s possible when you shift from operator to owner.
Mentioned in this episode:
Pete’s coaching and resources: pete-mohr.com
✨ Tone and Audience:
For founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs scaling sustainably
Practical, real-world, motivational without fluff
In this very first episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, I’m joined by Rich Williams – a former CMO who walked away from a high-paying global role (while his wife was seven months pregnant) to start again with just a paintbrush, a gut instinct, and a business idea he couldn’t shake.
Today, Rich leads a group of companies focused on changing the lives of young people across education, care, and training – all built from the ground up.
We talk about:
🎯 Why he walked away from the “perfect job”
🧠 How ADHD became his hiring superpower
🚩 The costly impact of one bad hire
🔥 What burnout taught him about scaling sustainably
🤖 How he’s using AI to match young people to tutors, mentors – even care plans
💡 And why letting go is the only way to grow
It’s raw, reflective, and packed with lessons for any founder trying to build something real – without losing their mind, their mission, or their sense of self.
In this very first episode of Scaling Up, Not Giving Up, I’m joined by Rich Williams – a former CMO who walked away from a high-paying global role (while his wife was seven months pregnant) to start again with just a paintbrush, a gut instinct, and a business idea he couldn’t shake.
Today, Rich leads a group of companies focused on changing the lives of young people across education, care, and training – all built from the ground up.
We talk about:
🎯 Why he walked away from the “perfect job”
🧠 How ADHD became his hiring superpower
🚩 The costly impact of one bad hire
🔥 What burnout taught him about scaling sustainably
🤖 How he’s using AI to match young people to tutors, mentors – even care plans
💡 And why letting go is the only way to grow
It’s raw, reflective, and packed with lessons for any founder trying to build something real – without losing their mind, their mission, or their sense of self.
Welcome to "Scaling Up, Not Giving Up"—the podcast that goes beyond the glossy success stories to reveal the real, raw challenges of growing a business without external investment. Hosted by Richard Lee, an entrepreneur who scaled his company by 650% in a quarter, this podcast offers an unfiltered look at the realities of scaling sustainably, navigating setbacks, and building resilience.
You'll get a glimpse into the kinds of powerful conversations you can expect—candid stories of overcoming adversity, making bold decisions, and keeping businesses afloat through tough times.
What You Can Expect:
Real Stories, Real Struggles: No fluff or sugarcoating—just honest accounts of what it really takes to scale, from bootstrapped startups to multi-million-pound businesses.
Practical Strategies: Learn actionable tips on navigating growth challenges, avoiding burnout, and building a business on your own terms.
Resilience and Grit: Hear how entrepreneurs have pushed through financial pressures, operational hurdles, and personal struggles to keep going.
No External Investment Required: Discover how to scale without diluting ownership or relying on VC funding.
Whether you’re a startup founder, business owner, or aspiring entrepreneur, "Scaling Up, Not Giving Up" will give you the insights, inspiration, and practical tools you need to grow smarter, stronger, and more sustainably.
🎧 Hit play and get ready for real conversations that show you don’t need deep pockets to build a thriving business—you just need grit, strategy, and the will to keep going.
