In this *mini* bonus episode, Bernie and David Janka, our guest from episode 11, share the advice they give students when asked about classes, careers, and first jobs.
Bernie likes to tell students that planning often doesn’t work — life is full of chance and change — and to embrace it. David encourages students to explore, enjoy the detours, and turn “mistakes” (aka learnings...) into part of their story.
Together, their wisdom: expect the unexpected, and enjoy the voyage of discovery.
01:08 Bernie: Logic doesn’t matter, embrace change
01:52 David: Exploration over perfection
02:44 The value of misinterpretation and detours
04:00 Connecting your diverse interests into a story
04:23 Krista’s wrap-up: enjoy the voyage, welcome the unexpected
Follow us on Instagram @yelloweyedcatspodcast for fun extras.
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson
Producer: Krista Donaldson
In this (final official!) episode, Bernie reflects on how the most meaningful turns in life often come from chance rather than careful planning. He shares his own serendipitous journey to becoming a professor at Stanford (involving a case of two professors named Arnold), his unexpected entry into robotics, how a single phone call led to his pioneering work in design —and why saying “yes” at the right time matters.
We’re joined by David Janka, a physician-turned-designer and faculty member at Stanford’s d.school. David opens up about leaving medicine to explore design, how the Designer in Society class helped him navigate that transition, and why creating a physical project in the class, a gift for friends, became a pivotal part of his journey.
Together, we explore questions of work, purpose, and meaning, with a little help from Gandhi and E.F. Schumacher.
00:00 Life is a c***shoot: accidents that shape our paths
01:00 Bernie on chance and opportunity
02:34 The wrong Arnold: how Bernie got to Stanford
06:13 A phone call that led to robotics
07:10 Another call that sparked Designer in Society
09:03 Are we the type of people who say yes or no?
10:00 The blessing (and curse) of work
12:53 The “Who am I?” exercise
17:30 Introducing David Janka
21:16 David’s Designer in Society project
28:25 Serendipity, careers, and saying yes
30:29 Bernie’s Burning Man camp
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast to see extras from this episode, like David's atrium staircase.
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
In this episode, Bernie explores how learning from others helps us learn about ourselves, especially when we are seeking assistance. From mantras collected from colleagues ("We don't have enough time to hurry" and “All design is redesign”) to the powerful tool of projection, Bernie offers tools to help us navigate interactions, teamwork, and life.
We're joined by Wendy Ju, a leading expert in human-computer interaction and professor at Cornell Tech. Wendy shares her journey from being rejected by Bernie when she wanted to take ‘The Designer in Society’ as an undergrad to later co-teaching a class with him. She discusses how their teaching team's productive conflicts became powerful learning moments, as well as some of the class’s best-known – and in one case, infamous – projects.
We also cover the curse of networking, mini-mentoring, and managing conflict on a team. We hope you’ll join us!
00:00 Bernie's mantras from colleagues: "We don't have enough time to hurry"
01:33 The projection exercise explained
07:58 The problem with the Myer-Briggs and similar tests
10:18 When conflict arises on teams
13:21 Mini-mentoring vs. formal mentorship
15:56 The curse of networking
17:40 Introducing Wendy Ju
20:39 Wendy's journey from rejected undergraduate to co-instructor of Transformative Design
22:17 (In)famous class projects: Juul and Juntos
23:43 Teaching team dynamics and productive conflict
24:32 The power of mantras and Wendy’s "Time passes for free"
30:49 Bernie's hot tub projection revelation
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast to see extras from this episode!
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
In this episode, we talk about the importance of shared humanity within teams or groups. Bernie explains his original, and often awkward, icebreaker “When was the last time you…” and explains how Stanford's Design Group operated without a traditional leader for over 40 years.
From learning names with gestures to the “I like… I wish…” way of giving feedback, we explore Bernie's version of "radical collaboration" and why something as simple as where you sit can change your experience.
We're joined by Ade Mabogunje, longtime Stanford researcher, who shares arriving at Stanford from Nigeria and experiencing Bernie's "disorientation weekend"—which involved running through ponds and rolling in grass with professors. Plus, the story of the paper boat project that revealed an unexpected truth about persistence versus brilliance.
00:00 "When was the last time you..." icebreaker
04:04 The story behind Bernie's community-minded approach
05:14: Gestures to learn others’ names
06:32 Stanford's Design Group's evolution to become leaderless for 40+ years
09:26 Bill Moggridge has thoughts on Bernie’s PPT slides
13:14 "I like and I wish" for giving feedback
15:21 The physical power demonstration: making colleagues "taller" or "shorter"
16:28 Why where you sit affects your influence
20:12 Introducing Ade Mabogunje
21:41 Disorientation weekend
24:28 The paper boat project and the importance of stick-to-it-ness
27:21 Silicon Valley culture
30:16 Bernie on competition vs. cooperation
30:29 Bernie proves Jim Fadiman (the father of microdosing) wrong
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast to see extras - we have a video of those paper boats!
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
Bernie explores one of his most liberating concepts: your self-image is malleable. From a show business manager who found it "really hurt" to be nice, to students writing down "10 things you would never do" and then doing them, this episode considers how our perceptions of ourselves can both limit and liberate us.
We're joined by Jeff Brown, an engineer who transformed from a by-the-book government kid to a Silicon Valley CEO and climate entrepreneur. Jeff shares how Bernie's class gave him the confidence to see engineering as a superpower, and how his class project helped him manage a challenging health problem.
We also talk about “The House Fantasy” (Episode 8a. bonus) and Bernie also walks us through his "truth process" (Episode 8b. bonus)—a powerful exercise for examining the stories we tell ourselves and making problems “disappear” through radical honesty.
00:00 Bernie's philosophy: Your self-image is malleable
00:30 The show business lawyer who was "nasty" by design
02:54 Exercise: Write down 10 things you would never do... then do them
06:04 Where self-images come from
09:23 The truth process: Telling yourself what really is
13:23 Disappearing your problems
15:52 Introducing Jeff Brown
19:36 Using engineering as a "superpower for good"
21:34 Jeff's class project of self-healing
23:00 The House Fantasy visualization
26:01 Bernie at 92: "I still don't know what I'm gonna do when I grow up"
27:51 Bernie’s self-image
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast to see more about Jeff's journey and other references from our podcast.
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
In this bonus episode, Bernie walks you through his exercise, “The Truth Process.” Using simple guided imagery, he shares a helpful way to tackle something you’re struggling with or to let go of what you don’t need anymore. We'll talk about this exercise in episode 8.
00:00 Intro
01:29 Get comfortable…
04:25 The Truth Process
In this bonus episode, Bernie guides you through his exercise, “The House Fantasy.” By imagining and exploring a house as a stand-in for yourself, you might discover new insights about who you are and what’s going on in your life. It’s a creative way to get to know yourself a little better. We'll talk about this exercise in episode 8.
00:00 Intro
01:51 Get comfortable…
04:42 The House Fantasy
14:29 Bernie talks about the exercise
Bernie teaches that the words you choose can shape your reality. In this episode, we explore the subtle but powerful impact of language on how we think, act, and relate to others. From a simple yes/no exercise to the power of and versus but, this episode explores how language can either empower or disempower us—and why Bernie earned the nickname ‘Bernie's with And.’
We're joined by Allison Okamura, Stanford professor and researcher, who shares how Bernie's language teachings transformed how she thinks about her research and how her daughter caught her saying "I love you, but...".
Changing a word might change your life. Come prepared to never think about language the same way again.
00:00 The Yes/No exercise
03:14 And builds, But shuts down
08:05 Have to vs. Want to
08:45 Help vs. Assist - Bernie's cooking story
09:40 The problem with Should
10:08 Why questions between equals
13:08 The "Bernie's with And" hat story
15:07 Introducing Allison Okamura
17:02 Allison’s class project: Japan, robotics, and her an ex-ex-ex
23:47 Allison on using And vs. But
26:11 Getting called out by her daughter
27:13 Bernie summarizes
28:28: Bernie’s book And/But edits
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcats to see Bernie's 'And' hat and other references from our podcast.
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
Ever get stuck on a problem that keeps you up at night? Bernie says it might not be the problem—it might be the question.
In this episode, we talk about how reframing problems can open up a whole new world of solutions. Bernie also helps us spot when we're solving the wrong problem and shares tools to help us reframe.
We’re joined by special guests Sheila and Harrison Wang, who took 'The Designer in Society' together in the ’80s when they were newly married grad students. They share how the class helped them navigate cultural expectations, major life decisions, and one truly memorable class project that’s lasted decades.
From pushing metaphorical rocks off a cliff to buying a real Persian rug, this episode has more of Bernie’s stories and practical wisdom, along with a gentle reminder: sometimes, the best way forward is to zoom out and ask a better question.
00:00 Introduction
01:15 Example of the wrong problem: "I want to find a good man"
03:42 Bernie's own wrong question
05:12 Bernie and Krista discuss worrying
08:17 The "going up a level" exercise explained
10:32 Introducing Harrison and Sheila Wang
12:52 Harrison's quest to impress Bernie (spoiler: it didn't work)
15:17 Moving to America at ten - it wasn’t so smooth in the beginning
17:00 From robotics to finance: The "emperor has no clothes" feeling
19:56 Taking the class together and their class project
20:33 The visualization exercise: Push your problem over a cliff
24:47 The Persian rug adventure for Bernie's 70th birthday
25:51 Four practical tools for reframing problems
27:06 Bernie on AI
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast to see fun extras like Bernie’s not-your-typical-professor’s hair and learn more Sheila’s grandfather who was a general for Chiang Kai Shek.
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
What shaped generations of Stanford engineers? A reading list that hasn't changed much in 40 years.
Bernie reveals the backstories behind his famous (and famously intensive) reading list for 'The Designer in Society'—texts that ranged from sociology to sci-fi, all exploring the human experience in a changing world. We dive into why these particular books have remained so powerfully relevant, from The Adjusted American (found on a drafting table) to Seeing is Forgetting the Name of the Thing One Sees (about the artist Robert Irwin).
Plus, we're joined by former student Özgür Eris, who shares how the class readings helped him navigate a period of existential questioning and ultimately shaped his approach to living a full life.
00:00 Introduction
01:03 How ‘The Designer in Society’ got started
07:27 The Adjusted American: Found on a drafting table, changed everything
11:18 Of Men and Machines: Adam Smith's contradiction
12:14 Tractoring Off: Steinbeck's dilemma of what you'd really do
14:06: The Portable Phonograph: What would you do if your house burned down?
15:05 Player Piano: Vonnegut's timeless critique (relevant to AI!)
16:38 Seeing is Forgetting: The book that changes how you see
20:10 Plain and Simple: The one with the Amish quilt on the cover
20:32 Labour and Monopoly Capital: Bernie’s “left wing” book
21:18 Wright Brothers: Extraordinary in their ordinariness
22:26: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime: We’re all different.
23:50 Introducing Özgür Eris
27:56 Özgür's experience with the "nothingness" in Robert Irwin's work
30:36 Özgür's project
32:22 The human potential movement explained
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast to see the complete reading list, Robert Irwin's artwork, and Gail Putney's letter to Bernie.
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
What if nothing has inherent meaning—and that’s actually empowering?
Bernie draws on his decades of teaching ‘The Designer in Society’ to explore a provocative idea: We give things meaning. Including even: Your life has no meaning... unless you give it one. It’s not nihilism—it’s liberation.
Join us to discuss meaning with special guest Professor Sheri Sheppard—who did not like the exercise when she took the class. Together, we consider how we assign meaning, how it evolves over time, and how it shapes everything from our relationships and careers to the smallest of everyday tasks.
01:05 Bernie's philosophy on meaning
07:01 Exercise: _______ has no meaning
07:57 Introducing Professor Sheri Shepherd
11:27 Sheri struggles with Bernie’s ‘No meaning’ exercise
15:56 Different stages of life = different meanings + new possibilities
18:50 Sheri’s class project
23:50 Bernie’s not favorite music
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcats to see fun extras referenced in this episode - like Sheri and her daughter, Portia!
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
What if sometimes ‘trying’ is better than doing? This week, Bernie makes the case for why the world and Yoda need to rethink ‘try.’ We discuss why ‘doing’ is still important, especially when it matters—we just need to be honest about the difference.
We’re joined in this episode by Steve Myers who shares his roller coaster journey of founding and running an engineering consulting company after graduating. He speaks to how the ‘trying vs. doing’ mentality propelled him through it all.
00:00 Introduction to Trying vs. Doing
00:39 Bernie goes to Skywalker Ranch
01:45 Bernie’s classroom demo of Trying vs. Doing
05:03 Bernie getting tickets at the Roxie
08:19 Bernie and Krista’s trip to Texas
10:10 A poem and persistence pays off
11:32 The lamppost story and the swimmer
15:26 Steve’s introduction
27:03 Exercise: Trying vs. Doing aka The first step
29:46 Bernie on trying to ski
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcats to see Steve, Yoda, and other references from our podcast.
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
Bernie talks about one of his most provocative ideas: Reasons are bull****, explaining that they often serve as excuses. Dropping them can unlock clarity and greater self-awareness, and don't we all need that? We also hear how being chronically late led to a personal epiphany—and a lasting habit shift.
Plus, Bernie reveals the story behind the podcast’s name: a child spotting a cat with yellow eyes became a metaphor for worldview shifts.
00:00 Intro to Yellow Eyed Cats
01:05 Reasons are bull****
03:39 Exercise: That’s a goooood reason
05:43 The Epiphany of being late
11:21 Exploring free will and responsibility
16:31 The story behind the name Yellow Eyed Cats
17: 52 Exercise: I used to think … Now I think ….
18:52 Conclusion and preview of the next episode
19:31 How to get your own free Reasons are Bull**** sticker!
For extras, check out our instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
“Pipe dreams are okay, but they really get in the way of stuff.” — Professor Bernie Roth
Stanford’s The Designer in Society isn’t your typical academic course — and Bernie’s assigned project wasn’t your typical assignment. It was a bold challenge to stop thinking, start doing.
In this episode, we’re joined by former student Janay Smith, who shares how that experience assisted her in facing later setbacks or as she puts it: when she got “stuck with a wet fish in my face.” Her biggest lesson from learning and occasionally sparring with Bernie? “Everything in life is a choice.”
Note: This episode includes swear words and some emotionally intense stories. Listener discretion advised.
00:16 Intro
01:27 Bernie’s guidelines for the student projects
02:47 Bernie-ism: Stop thinking, start doing
09:25 Fooling yourself
10:29 Janay’s introduction
18:00 Janay’s project
20:05 “ That project made me schedule an attack for fear. This is the day I'm going to attack my fear.”
28:09 A turning point with Janay’s parents, Jock Smith and Yvette Smiley Smith, CPA
32:55: “Everything is a choice”
37:33 Bernie gives project instructions for everyone
39:45 The student whose project didn’t work…
43:16 Janay has some thoughts on blow molds
More on Janay!
Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcats to see our amazing guests like Janay, and the Burning Man project that Bernie references in this episode.
Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson
Welcome to Yellow Eyed Cats with Bernie Roth, a podcast about seeing the world differently—and doing something about it.
Join co-hosts Stanford professor Bernie Roth and former student Krista Donaldson in this limited series inspired by Bernie’s iconic class, The Designer in Society. Listen in as Bernie challenges us to rewire how we think, live, and lead.
Whether you're stuck, seeking, or simply curious, Yellow Eyed Cats will help you spot the obstacles and learn how to walk around them - like a lamppost. (You’ll get that reference if you listen to this trailer…)
Listen, laugh, and rethink what’s possible—with us.
Yellow-Eyed Cats with Bernie Roth is available wherever you get your podcasts starting on 7 May 2025. Subscribe now so you don’t miss an episode!
You can also find us on instagram at @yelloweyedcatspodcast.