We Thought It Would Be Easy

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Jordan Weisman & Jonathan Grant

6 episodes

1 month ago

It’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye ... or millions of dollars. This podcast drags mad geniuses and bold creators from every corner of interactive entertainment out of their comfort zones to answer the question, 'What the f**k were you thinking?' Expect brutally honest stories, creative courage under fire, and practical insights that’ll inspire (or warn) anyone daring enough to chase magic.

All content for We Thought It Would Be Easy is the property of Jordan Weisman & Jonathan Grant and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.

Video Games

Leisure,

Games

Episodes (6/6)

We Thought It Would Be Easy

Ed Fries: The Father of the Xbox is Really a Hacker at Heart

Ed Fries joins hosts Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant to show how a teenage arcade hacker became the exec who helped turn Microsoft into a gaming powerhouse. Curiosity first, constraints as fuel, and a ruthless respect for shipping, that hacker ethos still drives how he works & builds things today.

Check out Ed's venture fund 1Up Ventures - where he's building a community of the most talented, experienced, and creative independent game developers in the world.
https://1upfund.com/

Don't forget to check out the IDGA, he world’s largest nonprofit membership organization supporting the people who make games.
https://igda.org/

Quick reference mentioned by Ed:

• Amir Satvat’s “Dear parent” letter — a frank, supportive overview for families weighing game careers, with realistic odds and next steps.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amirsatvat_dear-parent-of-a-college-high-school-or-activity-7316429901132165125-vFYb/

• Amir Satvat’s “Harsh truth about game degrees” — data on employability by role, what to study, and practical alternatives.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amirsatvat_the-harsh-truth-about-game-degrees-too-many-activity-7324100230067453952-YaW2/

00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Ed Fries
07:13 Early Hacker Days
17:37 Excel's "Sindogs" Bug
25:07 Joining Microsoft's Games Group
29:00 Navigating Corporate Politics
36:28 Xbox Origins & Brand Battles
46:39 Building Game Portfolios
59:52 Post-Microsoft & Family Focus
01:05:48 Passion vs. Profit in Gaming
01:15:22 1Up Ventures & New Bets
01:21:23 Advice for Young Creators
01:27:52 Regrets & The Fickle Nature of Pitches
01:34:57 Closing & What's Next

1 month ago

1 hour 38 minutes

We Thought It Would Be Easy

Daniel Dociu: From Guild Wars to The Expanse, Making Art That Serves Story First

Art Director & visual powerhouse Daniel Dociu joins Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant to torch “style bibles,” praise imperfections, and argue that art should grow like aged cheese - slow, organic, story-first. He recalls sketching Crimson Skies, turning Guild Wars into a “playable painting,” and painting The Expanse covers with zero notes. The trio spar over rapid prototyping, AI’s coming shake-up, and how small, gutsy teams can still out-create lumbering megaprojects.

Check out Daniel's INCREDIBLE ArtStation, where you can find many examples of his amazing work:
https://www.artstation.com/daniel_dociu

00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Daniel Dociu
05:12 Daniel's Unique & Definitional Style
07:27 Style Can't Be Frozen - It Must Be Grown
12:31 Style Guides vs Real Creativity
17:32 Conducting an Art “Orchestra” of Hundreds
23:44 Becoming Distinctive by Accepting Imperfection
32:22 Directing Art by Starting Conversations
35:09 On Sequels & Sameness
40:19 Navigating AI's Role in Creativity
40:27 AI, First Chairs, and the Future's Smaller Teams
45:56 Concentric Development: Prove Fun Before Polish
49:41 Personalization vs. Localization in Gaming
54:25 The Destructive Nature of the Approvals in Games
01:08:08 Painting The Expanse: A No-Notes Approval Story

2 months ago

1 hour 15 minutes

We Thought It Would Be Easy

Mitch Gitelman: On Building MechCommander, Shadowrun, Battletech - and Why Kindness Wins

Mitch Gitelman: Building MechCommander, Shadowrun, Battletech - And Why Kindness Wins

Game-making maestro Mitch Gitelman sits down with Jordan and Jonathan to spill the wild origin story of how “a kid who didn’t know what a pixel was” bluffed his way into Sony - and then built classics like MechCommander, Shadowrun Returns, and BattleTech. From goat-pasture negotiations and Microsoft war stories to why “improvise, adapt, overcome” (and a lot of kindness) still beat crunch and corporate ego, this episode all about creative hustle and staying human in AAA chaos.

Check out SLICE - Seattle Loves Indie Creators Expo, is a one-day games industry conference that Mitch is helping out with:
https://seattleslice.org/

2 months ago

1 hour 25 minutes

We Thought It Would Be Easy

Kevin Konrad Hanna: From Game Developer to Directing the Hit Hellboy Documentary and Taking Home Film Awards

Our guest this week is Kevin Hanna - who started as a scrappy game developer before making an unlikely leap into directing documentaries, including the acclaimed film about Hellboy creator Mike Mignola. He joins Jordan and Jonathan to share candid insights about the creative hustle, turning lunch-table dreams into award-winning reality, and why true creativity means making your own luck, even when the odds are against you.

Watch Mike Mignola: Drawing Monsters on Amazon Prime:
https://amzn.to/4dfzPho

Check out Ink On Paper (Kevin's film studio) on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@inkonpaperstudios

2 months ago

59 minutes

We Thought It Would Be Easy

Chris Taylor: Creator of Total Annihilation on Big Risks and Never Asking Permission

In this episode, storied game designer Chris Taylor (Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander) joins Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant for a candid conversation about fearless creativity, costly mistakes, and why groundbreaking games often mean never waiting for permission. From pioneering real-time strategy to surviving the brutal highs and lows of independent studio life, Chris shares his boldest bets - and what it truly takes to deliver on ambitious game-design dreams.

Check out Chris' web‑based RTS project Kanoogi:
https://www.kanoogi.com/

00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Chris Taylor
03:10 Chris Taylor's Early Career and Hardball
08:09 Transitioning to Boxing Games
12:18 Taking the Leap: Leaving EA for Total Annihilation
15:08 The Rise of Total Annihilation: A New Genre
21:00 Balancing Complexity: The Challenge of Game Mechanics
29:00 The Role of Trust in Creative Teams
34:37 Subtraction in Design: Knowing What to Remove
40:25 Creative Freedom and Game Development
43:52 From Cave Dog to Gas Powered Games
55:13 Work-Life Balance in Game Development
01:00:18 The Pain of Innovation
01:04:34 Lessons from Mistakes and Expectations Management
01:13:50 The Burden of Expectations & Navigating Failure
01:19:01 The Evolution of Game Development
01:24:11 The Changing Landscape of the Gaming Industry

Follow Chris:
https://x.com/DeathBot9

2 months ago

1 hour 31 minutes

We Thought It Would Be Easy

Justin Gary: Creator of Ascension & SolForge on Crafting Games and Taking Chances

In this episode, Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant talk with renowned game designer Justin Gary, discussing his journey from winning Magic: The Gathering championships to creating successful games like Ascension and SolForge Fusion. They explore the evolution of game design, the importance of creativity, the challenges of crowdfunding, and the impact of AI on the industry. Justin shares insights on navigating risks, the creative process, and the significance of building a community around game development.

Check out the new SolForge Fusion expansion mentioned in this episode, Shadows over Solace:
https://gamefound.com/projects/stoneblade/shadows-over-solis?refcode=hrtpe5I8bkOYWNsguSijmA

00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Justin Gary
03:39 Justin's Journey in Game Design
06:36 Innovations in Game Mechanics
09:26 Working with Legends: Richard Garfield
12:31 The Core Design Loop
15:30 Common Mistakes in Game Design
17:17 Setting Boundaries for Success
20:22 The Ego Paradox in Creation
24:15 Understanding Fear and Risk
28:07 The Innovator's Dilemma
34:56 Magic: The Gathering's Impact on Game Design
43:09 Finding Joy in Leadership
45:57 Trusting Your Team for Success
54:02 The Evolution of Crowdfunding in Game Development

Follow Justin:
https://x.com/Justin_Gary

Check out Justin's podcast, writings, and book here:
https://justingarydesign.substack.com/

3 months ago

1 hour 8 minutes