How did the early church fathers practice discipleship? What can we learn from them and apply to our lives today?In this episode, Oliver Hersey explores those questions with Pete Scazzero, author of Emotionally Healthy Discipleship: Moving from Shallow Christianity to Deep Transformation In addition to studying the early church Scazzero also studied the gospel of Matthew for years to learn how Jesus discipled the twelve apostles. “The disciples wanted to be popular,” he explains. “They didn’t want suffering and failure.” Those temptations and struggles still exist today. But how can Christians reject popularity, and embrace the cross? That’s where Scazzero looks to the riches of church history. To develop into people who are deeply changed by God, he suggested we should slow down, follow the crucified Jesus, make space for grief, and measure spiritual maturity by how we’re loving others. “Discretion was a quality of abbots in monasteries—the ability to let things unfold,” Scazzero notes. Join Scazzero as he lays out a blueprint for how to let your ministry flow out of your own life with Jesus. Learn more about emotionally healthy discipleship on his website. Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can the church come alongside people after the pandemic? In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Kelsey Bowse explore that question with Nicky Gumbel, Vicar at Holy Trinity Brompton (HTB) in London, England.  He’s also the pioneer of Alpha, a program that started in 1977 that helps people explore questions of faith in fifteen sessions. He left his legal career behind, to work in ministry full-time, with his wife Pippa Gumbel.  “This is the greatest evangelistic opportunity of a lifetime,” Nicky said. His church had its largest turn out for Alpha in 2020, with 1,600 people attending online.  He said “There’s going to be a huge amount of poverty, even in places like the UK and the U.S. It’s an opportunity for the church to do what it’s supposed to do, to care for the poor and to preach the gospel.”  The explosive growth of the church came directly after the epidemics of 165 AD, and 251 AD, according to Nicky. This is ultimately what separates Christians, from everyone else, their willingness to run towards people who are suffering. Check out what was referenced on the podcast:  Rodney Stark's book The Rise of Christianity: A Sociologist Reconsiders History Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you live a life that’s deeply formed in Christ? In this episode, Oliver Hersey explores that question with Rich Villodas, author of “The Deeply Formed Life: Five Transformative Values to Root Us in the Way of Jesus.” He is also the lead pastor of New Life Fellowship, a multi-racial church in Queens, New York. He wrote the book out of pastoral concern, and lays out a vision for spiritual breakthrough in five key values. He covers five areas of ministry that inform his church’s overall mission, preaching and discipleship: • Contemplative Rhythms Value: slowing down our lives to be with God. • Racial Justice Value: examining a multi-layered approach to pursuing racial justice and reconciliation. • Interior Examination Value: looking beneath the surface of our lives to live free and love well. • Sexual Wholeness Value: exploring how our sexuality connects with our spirituality. • Missional Presence Value: living as the presence of Christ in a broken world. He indicated that prayer is about listening to God listen. “Prayer is an exchange of souls, not necessarily an exchange of information or words. It’s a communion of hearts,” Villodas said.  Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you model your small groups after Levi’s house? In this episode, Oliver Hersey tells the story of Jesus calling Levi, or Matthew, the tax collector to follow Him. Many Christian scholars believe that Levi also wrote the gospel of Matthew, and witnessed the Ascension of Jesus, according to the Oxford Bible Commentary the Gospels. “After this he went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax booth. And he said to him, “Follow me.” And leaving everything, he rose and followed him (Lk. 5:27-32).”  Soon after this encounter, Levi invited Jesus, and his tax-collector friends over for dinner, to dine with Jesus. The Pharisees questioned why Jesus would dine with sinners, and tax collectors. In response, Jesus said “And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners (Mk. 2:17).” Oliver indicated that Alpha is a small group ministry, that encourages seekers, and non-believers to ask questions about Christianity, in a welcoming environment. “The genius is that all it involves is food, and people, and drink and the presence of Jesus. He will grab people’s attention, when it’s time to,” Oliver said. If you work in ministry, there’s a good chance you’ve already left many things behind to follow Jesus. Holding onto your desire for greatness, fame, love, comfort, and convenience might still be a temptation, though. Here are a few questions to consider, if you'd like to start small group(s), where everyone matters: How can you model your small groups after Levi’s House? Have you left behind your desire for greatness? Are sinners welcome at your small group? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why is singing an important part of worship? Kristyn Getty and her husband, Keith wrote a book entitled “Sing: How Worship Transforms Your Life, Family and Church” that explores this question, in light of the Christian faith. They’re both known as modern hymn writers, and global ambassadors for the genre. Kristyn and Keith are best known for the modern hymn “In Christ Alone.” She aims to write beautiful songs that people can sing, highlighting Biblical truths, with stylistic influences from early hymn writers. Since she became a mom in 2011, she started wondering what it meant to teach her children how to sing. Kristyn said “We started doing a hymn a month with our kids, and that has been a wonderful thing.” Last month, they taught their children “It Is Well with My Soul” which has led to questions about who Satan is, and what it means to have assurance.  “What we sing is incredibly important. So much of what we sing is what we remember, and how we talk about our faith, how we pray, how we share our faith with unbelievers,” she said. Singing is an extension of our prayer life, and allows scripture to “dwell in us,” according to Kristyn. She indicated that the congregation is the ultimate choir, and is the life blood of the church. She said “There are some churches that sing robustly and have very carefully crafted worship services. Maybe it’s going down a liturgical path. And other churches have a more loose approach to how things are put together.”  Check out what was referenced on the podcast: Sing! In Christ Alone: Getty Music Worship Conference C.S. Lewis’ Essay on “Three Ways of Writing for Children” Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you participate in the mission of God? In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Dr. Christopher Wright, author of The Mission of God: Unlocking the Bible's Grand Narrative discuss prayer, scripture reading, and theological study as ways to enter into God's mission. Dr. Wright said “we need to be men and women of mission. We need to see that we are participating in God’s mission in this world. We need to be followers of Jesus who are about the things that Jesus was about.”  In regards to prayer, and issues of social justice – Dr. Wright pointed to the Psalms and said “we need to be praying into the situation into much more Biblical ways.” He also points to the Lord’s Prayer as a way to enter into God’s mission, here on earth.  He also serves as the International Ministries Director of Langham Partnership International, a ministry founded by John Stott. Stott realized the church was lacking in resources for pastoral care and teaching. Because of this, he established a number of ministries, which later became known as Langham Partnership. Stott famously said “pastors can’t preach if they don’t study, and they can’t study if they have no books.” Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you live in the tension of the ‘now, and not yet?’ Oliver Hersey and J.R. Briggs, author of The Sacred Overlap - Learning to Live in the Space In Between reflect on the mystery of the Christian life, as it relates to prayer, community and difficult questions we wrestle with. Briggs said “If you think about the overlapped life – it’s kind of like closing one eye. You can still see, but your depth perception and your peripheral vision is skewed significantly. We need both eyes in order to see with sharpness, clarity and depth.”  He talks about the “mandorla,” an almond shaped frame of light that surrounds holy persons in Christian art. Briggs said this concept has been around for a long time. He pointed out that the trinity symbol, includes the mandorla, two overlapping circles with a space in between. Briggs argued that Western culture is uncomfortable with the mystery of faith, due to the Enlightenment. He said “Eastern culture is much more comfortable with mystery, and not having everything solved. That’s the world that Jesus grew up in. If we only understand Him on facts, but we don’t let him be God in the mystery, we really miss out.” J.R. Briggs is the founder of Kairos Partnerships. He hosts the Resilient Leaders podcast, and serves on the Board of Directors with Jerusalem University College. Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you ‘take off your mask off’ to be fully known? Oliver Hersey and John Lynch, author of “On My Worst Day: The Narrative changes When Redemption Enters In” explore that question. “It’s up to us as leaders, to be able to believe who are in Christ, to be able to know what I am telling is real. And I’m not wearing an idealized mask. That is the most profound gift, to someone in our audience, or community.” Lynch describes the paradoxes that we live in sometimes, as Christians. Your life can be messy, but you’re still made new in Christ, and not defined by your shame. The pandemic gave him an opportunity to release an updated version of his book “On My Worst Day,” where Lynch imagines what Jesus might be saying now.  He said “imagine the voice of Jesus who does not condemn – who stands in the center of everything I go through, who actually delights in me on my worst day. I wanted to give voice to that.” Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you participate in the divine life? Oliver Hersey and Dr. Cherith Fee Nordling, Associate Professor at the Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies at Regent College explore this question, in light of the Trinity.  She said “He is still incarnate, embodied, busy and is happy to invite us to be part of things.” Her students are blown away, when they find out that Jesus still has a body, is around 5’4’’ tall and Palestinian. Christological heresies often seek to simplify how Christ's humanity and divinity can be reconciled. For example, Docetism is a belief that Jesus’s human body wasn’t real; and Apollinarism, argues that Jesus had a human body, with a divine mind. Buying into heresies like this can lead people to misconceptions about Jesus, and our own identity: that our physical bodies don't matter after death, or that Jesus is no longer incarnate. "The heresies of the church are an attempt over 2,000 years, to try to simplify or to reduce the mystery of the fact that this is God in in our midst. We want to make him reasonable in our thinking,” according to Dr. Nordling. They also discuss Andrei Rublev’s icon of The Trinity, or the Hospitality of Abraham which depicts the three angels who visited Abraham at the Oak of Memre in Genesis 18:1-8. The icon shows how Jesus invites us into the divine life.   Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What defines Progressive Christianity? In this episode, Oliver Hersey and producer, Kelsey Bowse explore that question with Alisa Childers, author of Another Gospel: A Lifelong Christian Seeks Truth in Response to Progressive Christianity. She was also a member of ZOEgirl, a Christian band that toured from 1999-2013, with bands like Natalie Grant, and TobyMac Childers argues that Christians should be able to give an “apologia,” or defense for their faith. She said “every Christian should have a working knowledge, for at least the resurrection, and some basic Biblical reliability issues.” She drew attention to 1 Peter 3:15 (ESV) always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect. Her book, Another Gospel includes nine denials that define Progressive Christianity. In this conversation, Childers outlines the following denials: the authority of the Bible, the sin nature of man, and the reality of sin that separates us from God. When asked about Hell – she cited J.I. Packer ‘Hell is the negation of fellowship with the Lord, the negation of pleasure, the negation of any form of contentment.” Childers also added “if someone doesn’t like God now, they’re not going to want to be with him for eternity.” Her friend J. Warner Wallace outlines three things that take ministers down: sex, money and power. She indicated that Progressive Christians like Nadia Bolz-Weber are telling people “you can have all of those things.” That’s why, for some people, this message, is appealing – even though it’s antithetical to the Gospel. You can also listen to the Alisa Childers Podcast. Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How do you care for your soul? Mindy Caliguire, is the co-founder and President of Soul Care, a spiritual formation ministry that exists to increase “soul health” in the church. Her and her husband, Jeff have also consulted with non-profits like Salvation Army and large church networks, to reinvigorate people’s lives and souls.  In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Caliguire reflect on how to take care of your soul, amidst difficult seasons in ministry, and in your own personal life. She suggested prayer, reading scripture, soul searching, silent reflection, spiritual friendship and journaling as ways to nourish your soul. She said “Journaling has been a place for me where I can be gut level honest with God, and what’s going on in my life. People who are on a discovery journal keep journals.” Sign up for a webinar with Mindy “Beating Burnout: Mental and Spiritual Health for You and Those You Lead.”   Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does healthy church leadership look like? In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Scot McKnight explore this question through the lens of good, or “tov” discipleship. He wrote A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing with his daughter, Laura Barringer. They saw mega-churches around them become toxic, and leaders of those churches make poor decisions. So they wanted to write a book, to explore why these fractures happen in the church, and how people can create a culture of tov, or goodness instead. McKnight said “Our goal was to present what the churches learned about mega-churches, and these mega-leaders from Willow Creek, Harvest Bible Chapel, and the Roman Catholic Church. We learned a lot about these situations, but we didn’t want to spend our time exposing them. I became convinced that it was about culture in churches.” Churches with tov cultures recognize, and resist toxic culture in the church. McKnight suggests that building habits of “tov” can counteract evil and toxicity in the church, and the human heart. The heart-beat of the book is a roadmap for forming church cultures, which would ultimately lead to goodness. Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Can your faith become a habit in a spiritual wilderness? Jen Pollock Michel, author of A Habit Called Faith: 40 Days in the Bible to Find and Follow Jesus argues that faith is a vital spiritual practice in the Christian life. In this conversation, Oliver Hersey and Kelsey Bowse talk to her about faith and fasting in the sacred season of Lent.  She said “If we think about Lent as a season of repentance – it’s a season that we can mark out of our calendar, where we can return to consecrating ourselves to God. I think repentance and return are daily. There is something really beautiful to mark out a season of time and dedicate it to God.”  For a Christian writer, living in a secular city, Toronto, CA – practicing habits of faith varies from day to day. Sometimes, it just means walking down to her office in the basement, and writing at her desk while her five children are at school. She said “it’s really nothing more fancy or complicated than that.” On other occasions, it means sharing her faith, and moral convictions at a dinner party, with a writer who happens to be a non-believer.  Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How do you know if you’re worshiping an idol? In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Dr. Christopher Wright, author of Here Are Your Gods: Faithful Discipleship in Idolatrous Times explore this question. Idols existed in ancient cultures, and now exist in a different form: as sports stadiums, national symbols, or even as political figures (the president, or prime minister) and are meant to display what is “powerful” or “awesome.”  We live in a fallen world, yet aim to live by God’s standards and values. Wright indicated that learning to “negotiate the difference” creates tension for Christians. Dr. Wright said “We want to rule our own lives. Idolatry is the very essence of self-exaltation over and above God. It goes back to the Garden of Eden. When human beings reject the authority of God, and God’s right to tell us what we may and may not do. We decide to choose that for ourselves. Then of course, we’ve begun to push God off of his throne, and exalt other things.”   He lives in London and serves as the International Ministries Director of Langham Partnership International, a ministry founded by John Stott. Dr. Wright also ministers to parishioners at All Souls Church in London and has a PhD from Cambridge University in Theology. He is also the author of The Mission of God: Unlocking the Bible’s Grand Narrative. You can also learn more about Dr. Wright’s recent book on Christianity Today’s website.  Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you strengthen your marriage? Nicky Gumbel, Vicar at Holy Trinity Brompton (HTB) in London, England says “there’s no marriage that can’t be improved.” In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Kelsey Bowse discuss the joys and trials of marriage with Nicky. He’s also the pioneer of Alpha, a program that started in 1977 helps people explore questions of faith in fifteen sessions. Nicky and Silla Lee started The Marriage Course in 1990, to help couples strengthen their relationships. Nicky said “Every session raises issues. There’s a session on communication. There are exercises, where you talk about how you can improve communication. There’s one on in-laws. It’s really funny. It’s really interesting and informative.”  During the COVID-19 lockdown, Nicky and Pippa did the Marriage Course online at HTB, with twenty thousand people. They met when Nicky was 17, and have been married for nearly 43 years. Pippa had an operation, to treat her lung cancer in 2019.  “She was in hospital for nearly two weeks with the operation. I slept on two chairs by her bed. I spent one night at home and then I decided I’d much rather be uncomfortable with her, than uncomfortable without her.”   Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you pique interest in small groups at your church? In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Bill Search explore what it takes to invite people into small groups in 2021. For people who aren’t backed by large small group ministries – Bill suggests blooming where you’re planted. You can start by faithfully leading until you see more fruitfulness and growth for small groups in the church. Consider how Jesus inspired people, fisherman and tax collectors to follow Him. “Jesus said, `Come and see.' They went and saw the place where Jesus was staying. The time was about four o'clock in the afternoon. They stayed with Jesus the rest of the day (Jn. 1:39).”  Here’s what works for many churches across the country, when asking people to join small groups:  Ask for a short-term commitment (eight to twelve weeks)  Use a materials that speak to a felt need in the body of Christ (like Rooted, which speaks to the core essence of being a Christian)   Everybody’s doing it at your church Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What is your ministry context for small groups? Depending on your church, and the cultural norms where you live, small groups will look different. In this episode, Oliver Hersey and Bill Search, contributors at smallgroups.com talk about types of small groups, and what elements make up a healthy small group. Bill said “Small groups, almost all of them have emphasis on relationships, some sort of emphasis on spiritual growth, Bible study and somewhere woven in is an outward perspective, whether it’s praying for people, or serving as a group.” For some pastors, safety is major concern in planning logistics for small group ministry. A pastor from Nairobi, Kenya said “In the evening it’s not safe for people to be out on certain streets in certain areas. So having an evening small group isn’t going to work for us. What do you recommend?” Oliver pointed to groups like Celebrate Recovery, and Alpha – for new people in the church who need a foundation for their faith. He said “We’re creating these Alpha groups – that are really discussion based groups, safe places for people to explore faith. Check out what was referenced on the podcast: Bill Search’s book Vibrant Small Groups: A 5-Step Process to Create a Ministry That Fits Your Church. Christianity Today. 2020 “Running Alpha” (website), Alpha International, updated October 3, 2019.  Celebrate Recovery’s website   Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What should the church look like today? Sean Brakey, Pastor and Elder at We Are Church argues that if you can run an Airbnb, you can probably run a church too. That’s why “simple gatherings,” the sixth core practice of We Are Church is so important for making disciples. This allows for laypeople to rise up, and serve in leadership roles.  “We want to paint a picture for the church – that it can look more like Airbnb – such that we can take these godly, faithful humble Christ exalting people and they can lead in the church. So there’s an intentional simplicity.”  Francis Chan started We Are Church eight years ago in San Francisco, CA and now there are 200 people involved. When asked about church planting, Sean emphasized the importance of pursuing faithfulness, rather than specific attendance numbers. His church's (that he runs alongside Rob Zabala, and Francis Chan) five values are: devoted worshipers, loving families, equipped disciple-makers, and spirit-filled missionaries and suffering sojourners. Sean said “We want every single believer to feel the weight of responsibility themselves to go and make disciples, and to be engaged in the mission." Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can celebrating Advent shape our desires this year? In part two of this conversation, Oliver Hersey talks to Dr. Paul Gutacker, Executive Director of the Brazos Fellows. They explore how celebrating Advent can bring hope to the tense atmosphere of 2020. They also explore how millenials feel about church today, and what may draw them back into the church. Paul said “I think recovering these seasons is a great idea for groups. I think inviting people, especially into Advent; inviting people in 2020 - when there's so much confusion, so much anger, so much false hope being put on any number of things that we can't put our hope in. Let't really long for a month for Christ's return. Let's look to it."  Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can you create a culture of discipleship at your church? Spoiler alert: you don't need a multi-million dollar budget to do it. In this episode, Oliver Hersey talks to Sean Brakey, Pastor and Elder at "We Are Church" in San Francisco, CA. He also serves as a Director for Crazy Love Ministries. They discuss Sean's journey from being a youth pastor in Ohio, to ministering to the broken and homeless with Francis Chan on the streets of San Francisco. They also explore 5 core practices of We Are Church including devotion to scripture, meeting in homes, everyone discipled and discipling and everyone exercising their spiritual gifts. Rate Transforming Discipleship on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram Produced by Kelsey Bowse, edited by Alex Carter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices