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Yesterday, Secretary Rollins and Secretary Burgum received their 2025 wildfire briefing in the Forest Service offices and signed a joint wildfire memo afterward. Further, Secretary Rollins issued a memorandum directing the USDA and Forest Service to take immediate action on wildfire response.
This includes new directives during times of PL3 and higher, including using non-fire employees to help with wildfire support and response. Also, increasing red card and other qualifications, ordering, purchasing, dispatching, and more.
Basically, everyone will be available to fight fire or support those efforts.
Also, the budget bill that will be voted on soon contains language that would create “no tax on overtime.” This would have major implications for wildland firefighters who earn up to 144 OT hours per check or 1,400 OT hours per summer. I'm watching that closely.
Plus more.
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Brittany Culbertson is a mom of two boys (17 & 20) and a proud Wildland Fire wife for 23 years. She has lived in northern Nevada for 24 years and works as a middle school teacher. Brittany is passionate about education and staying active in our local community, always striving to make a positive impact both in and out of the classroom.
We discuss raising a family, becoming independent, communicating in a wildfire relationship, and how Brittany and her husband have been able to navigate the struggles and joys of 23 years as a wildfire couple.
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These last couple of weeks, listeners have been asking for an episode of the recent Timber Executive orders on Timber management in the National Forests. So, I invited Sharon Friedman on the show, who has a wealth of knowledge as the former Assistant Director of NEPA for the USDA in the D.C. office.
Sharon Friedman is the founder and Managing Editor of The Smokey Wire, a community sourced and supported news site for forest and federal lands issues. The Smokey Wire focuses on shared learning and civil discussion among practitioners (wildfire, forest, grassland, wildlife, fish, legal professionals), researchers, academics and the public.
She retired from the US Forest Service in 2012 as the Regional Planning Director for the Rocky Mountain Region, and previously was the Assistant Director for NEPA in the Washington Office. She joined the Forest Service in 1979 as an Area Geneticist in Oregon and switched from genetics and silviculture to NEPA in 2001. She has two degrees in forestry and a Ph.D. in genetics from the University of New Hampshire.
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I welcome Jessie Thomas to discuss health and fitness through the fire season. Sometimes, you need to hack the system to make it work for you, as the food and nutrition provided are often subpar. So, Jessie provides solutions for how you make it through the year while maintaining your health and wellness.
Jesse has a wealth of knowledge and experience as a former Lolo and Flathead Hotshot turned Missoula Smokejumper of 8 years. We discuss gut health during fire season, maintaining your physical and mental health to allow for a long and successful fire career and dive into the current state of our world and communities.
Jessie, founder of Missoula, Montana’s Sustainable Wellness, knows that the health of the human body over a lifespan is determined by what we eat and how we live.
A perfect time for this conversation.
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With recent developments in Oregon, Idaho, and California regarding their use of wildfire risk maps, the skyrocketing cost of insurance, and the reality of living in the Wildland Urban Interface, Stanford scholar and lawyer Micheal Wara joins the show to provide insight on where this all stands today.
Wara is Director of the Climate and Energy Policy Program and a senior research scholar at the Stanford Woods Institute for the Environment as well as Senior Director for Policy at the Sustainability Accelerator within the Stanford Doerr School of Sustainability.
Wara has served as a Wildfire Commissioner for California, as a member of the California Catastrophe Council, the oversight body of the California Wildfire Fund, as a consultant to the Senate pro-Tem on wildfire issues, and as a consultant to CPUC and OEIS on utility wildfire risk management. Wara has served on multiple National Academy of Sciences and California Council on Science and Technology reports. He is also a member of the Tamalpais Design Review Board.
Prior to joining Woods, Wara was an associate professor at Stanford Law School and an associate in Holland & Knight’s government practice. He received his J.D. from Stanford Law School and his Ph.D. in Ocean Sciences from the University of California at Santa Cruz.
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There have been ongoing discussions about major changes in the wildfire world for some time now. As significant changes are ongoing across the government, we get our first look at a draft executive order regarding a national wildfire service and more. This includes aviation and contracting changes, dispatching changes, and ultimately forming a singular wildfire service. I cover the draft order.
Oregon once again scraps the wildfire risk map after 4 years of trying to implement it with millions of dollars spent. Also, the Governor of Oklahoma fired the head of their wildfire service and is asking if they should dissolve the agency altogether.
Plus, the Forest Service provides an update on pay implementation and premium pay details.
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Zeke Lunder is a Pyro-geographer. His parents fled the Bay Area for the hillbilly sticks of Northeastern California in the late 1970s, when the timber industry was still a major part of the local economy, and Zeke started working in the woods in high school on a Forest Service conservation crew.
Zeke started his prescribed fire and fuels career in 1995 on a timber crew on the Lassen National Forest, marking trees for thinning on large-scale shaded fuel break projects and burning house-sized piles of logging slash. He got a degree in map-making from California State University, Chico, in 1996 and was one of the first NWCG-qualified wildfire mapping specialists in the United States.
In 2021, Zeke and his wife, Erika, founded Lookout Media, which provides in-depth reporting on prescribed fire, wildland fire management tactics, and forestry through their YouTube channel and website. Zeke currently lives in Chico, California.
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Today, I welcome Zeyn O’Leary, a 35-year veteran fire lookout who has staffed towers since 1991. Zeyn started in the Iron Mountain Lookout on the Willamette National Forest, staffed the Rose Peak Lookout in the Apache Sitgreaves National Forest, and currently staffs the Mt. Pisgah Lookout in the Ochoco National Forest in Central Oregon.
His experience spans multiple forests across three decades.
Today, we discuss the fast-arriving detection tech that has incrementally made its way to the mountain peaks of our National Forests and the Satellite tech that has been launched into lower earth orbit, compared to the human eyes that have been looking out for decades.
We discuss the 48-page data-driven document Zeyn put together that compares humans versus machines—a fascinating conversation with one of the longest-serving lookouts in the United States.
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With less than 48 hours to pass the Continuing Resolution that locks in base wage increases for wildland firefighters, I welcome Senator Tim Sheehy of Montana to discuss where we are. The House passed the Bill this week, and the Senate is expected to vote on it imminently. Will it pass the Senate?
If not, we will see a government shutdown.
Also, 10+ Bipartisan Wildfire Bills have been introduced that address a wide array of wildfire issues nationwide. Senator Sheehy and his colleagues are looking to pass these as a package deal, hopefully this spring. We discuss the Bills and what the process going forward looks like.
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I welcome Justin DeMoss, current Golden Eagles Hotshot and of Hotshot Wellness.
Justin is a dedicated humanitarian with a passion for improving physical, mental, and spiritual health. His mission is to help individuals achieve a better quality of life through holistic wellness.
He earned a Master’s in Exercise Science from Long Beach State, focusing his thesis and work as a Wellness Instructor for Santa Ana College on firefighter health and wellness. At Sports Academy, he served as a strength and conditioning coach, training competitive athletes and tactical personnel.
Currently, Justin is a Golden Eagles Hotshot, fighting wildfires across the U.S. as a 3rd puller and lead EMT on his crew. Seeking firsthand experience as a first responder, he has gained valuable insights into the challenges of the field.
Hotshot Wellness mission statement:
Our mission is to support the health and well-being of Interagency Hotshot Crews and Wildland Firefighters. By providing personal development opportunities, comprehensive wellness resources, and advocating for mental health, we empower firefighters to excel both on and off the fireline. We strive to cultivate a culture of growth, proactive care, and accessible support, ensuring they have the tools to thrive in every aspect of their lives.
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The last time JJ was on the show, we discussed his study on fire lunches and their effects on the wildland firefighters’ bodies. Since then, he has been working with Hotshot Crews and other fire resources to set them up with the optimal plan to maintain nutrition and health pre, post, and during the fire season.
After high school, JJ served as an infantryman in the Marine Corps for four years. After his enlistment, he was a wildland firefighter in Arizona for three years, including time on the Globe Hotshots. He is now married, and he and his wife, Josi, are dog mushers in Alaska.
He owns a nutrition coaching business, Frontier Performance Nutrition, where he spends most of his time coaching wildland firefighters, military personnel, and backcountry athletes. He believes that in a job where everything is stacked against our health, it’s up to us to optimize the fundamentals to lead long and healthy lives.
JJ's Contact info: IG: @fpncoaching
Email: frontierpn@gmail.com
Website: www.frontierpn.com
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Today, I welcome back Dr. Ludie Bond to discuss the already active Florida Fire season. Conditions across Florida are abnormally dry, and forests are starting to see fire activity they would typically see in March. The recent hurricanes also have impacted fuels, with large swaths of blowdown across Florida counties.
We cover the fires already occurring, the expected increased activity, drought conditions, and prescribed fire programs in Florida. They burn 2 Million acres annually in Florida! I also ask if they expect to have the fire resources necessary to handle the anticipated increased wildfire activity.
Dr. Bond holds a Bachelor of Science in Public Relations, a Master of Forest Resources and Conservation, and a Doctorate of Forest Resources and Conservation from the University of Florida. She serves as a Type 1 Complex Public Information Officer Section Lead on one of the Florida Forest Service’s Complex Incident Management Teams. She also develops Firewise projects and Countywide Community Wildfire Protection Plans to lower the risks and potential damaging effects of wildfires in communities determined to be at risk.
Dr. Bond has worked as a PIO on CIMTs throughout Florida, the southeast, and as far west as Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Louisiana, Montana, Oregon, Texas, and Utah. Dr. Bond has also responded to multiple hurricane recovery deployments throughout Florida, including in the panhandle of Florida for Hurricane Michael and southwest Florida for Hurricane Ian.
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Nearly 7,000 probationary employees were terminated in the last 48 hours across the land management agencies and park service. This included researchers at the Missoula Fire Lab, trails crews, biologists, and others.
The agencies have yet to communicate on the terminations that have occurred and any actions planned in the future. I have spoken with numerous supervisors and others who provided as much information as they had about what they are seeing and hearing inside the agencies and possible further actions. Primary wildfire positions continue to be exempt.
According to sources who understand how the process is proceeding, further actions based on performance evaluations are likely. The decision to lump all probationary employees into this termination action will have downstream effects, and positions critical to wildfire operations, although not primary fire, were removed.
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I have a conversation with Eddie Goldberg, Vice Chairman Of Perimeter Solutions. Perimeter Solutions holds the sole contract with the Forest Service for retardants and has operations around the globe.
We discuss the testing that retardants undergo, their composition, the safety studies that have been conducted, and the company's origins. We also discuss the upcoming wildfire legislation coming through Congress and what it will mean for wildfire resources across the industry.
If you have questions about retardant or the retardant industry, we try to answer those questions.
Eddie is credited with building ICL’s global fire safety business, focusing on products for wildland fire management and municipal and industrial fire suppression. Eddie holds a BS in Chemical Engineering from Cornell University.
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I cover the proposal for the new National Wildfire Fire Service. This has been discussed for decades, and an effort to finally streamline the wildfire bureaucracy now has bipartisan support. It would consolidate all fire agencies under one umbrella.
The USDA sent out a policy email stating that wildland firefighters are not exempt from the hiring freeze, which is paused until the Office of Personnel Management reviews the positions being offered. This issue needs to be resolved quickly to ensure an appropriate workforce can be in place for the summer fire season. It should be a priority.
Wasteful spending by the Wildfire Agencies is under heavy scrutiny right now. All grants have been paused while they are sorted through. Last night, I looked through some grants and spending; some wild things are in there. This is an area of focus for those working on reducing costs.
One foundation that received $564M from the Forest Service has the acting Chief of the Forest Service on its board of directors. I was assured that this was being looked into.
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Today, I cover all the wild reforms inside the wildfire agencies over the last week, how they happened, and why. It’s been a whirlwind of policy changes, website deletions, and top-level control of all IT and servers across the Departments. I even got a sneak peek at the current number of resignations sent in since mass resignation letters were offered to employees.
Workers are still experiencing a great deal of uncertainty as this unfolds. I discuss the flurry of policy decisions that have been made, why the wildfire agencies are being targeted at the top levels, and how everyone will be affected.
But with all that comes hypocrisy that needs to be called out.
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I cover the President’s visit to the California wildfires, then dive into the Fix Our Forests Act, which passed the House this week and will likely pass the Senate.
Inside this Act is a provision to determine if the Forest Service should be moved to a Western state out of Washington D.C.; they have a 1-year timeline to decide.
The Act also would create the Wildland Fire Management Casualty Assistance Program. This would cover travel and other expenses for a firefighter’s family if they are injured, ill, or deceased due to a line-of-duty incident.
It also creates a system that tracks and provides specialized care for injured firefighters and provides short and long-term support with physical therapy and counselors.
There is a provision to create and study the use of “water bombs”, massive cardboard boxes filled with water that can be used with non-wildfire aircraft such as a V-22 Ospresy and C-130s.
There are also environmental exemptions for fire projects under 10,000 acres, reducing the chance for litigation for fire breaks and prescribed burns.
Plus more.
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I speak with John Gould, one of the most respected voices in the wildfire industry. John’s career spans the wildfire world, including being a longtime Alaska Smokejumper, chair of the Federal Fire and Aviation Safety Team, head of Air Operations for the Bureau of Land Management, manager of the Alaska Fire Service, and CEO of 10 Tanker.
John and I discussed everything related to the wildfire industry, including retardant testing, contract issues, struggles with transparency in working with the Forest Service, and getting a seat at the table as an aviation company.
Changes need to be made to better support our firefighters on the ground and aviation assets in the air, and we discuss how this can be done in the current environment.
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I spoke with Orange County Fire Chief Brian Fennessy about the recent fires in California and the changes needed in the aftermath.
Chief Fennessy is the Chair of the Firescope Advisory Committee, which will meet next week to make recommendations to improve the current system and have a panel discussion on the 2025 California fires. We discuss the issues with the ordering system, aviation resources being off-contract for the Forest Service, the hydrants and reservoirs, politics in fire, and much more.
Interstingly, Forest Supervisors in California opposed the D.C. office's decision to release aviation resources in late December. The move ended up being the right one, even in the face of significant D.C. backlash.
This is one of the most open and honest conversations you will hear from a leader in the fire world in the wake of these fires.
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With the tragedy of the Palisades and Eaton Fires in California over the last week, I sat down with Senator Tim Sheehy to discuss what needs to be done to ensure that this tragedy never happens again and make certain our wildland firefighters are supported.
The Senator and I have discussed these issues for years, and due to these devastating fires, National attention is entirely focused on them.
We discuss fixing firefighter pay, long-term aviation contracts, changes that need to be made to the wildfire system, and how that can now be accomplished in Congress.
Senator Sheehy is the only Red Carded member of Congress as a firefighter and founded the internationally available wildfire aviation company Bridger Aerospace in Montana.
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