This episode is the fourth in a four-part series, featuring a conversation with Sander Kamphuis, CEO and founder of Moovd. He and his colleagues have created an AI-driven, but 100% therapist-controlled EMDR software called WeMind, as explained in previous episodes.

This episode has nothing to do with WeMind, Instead, the host and Sander discuss the ethical dilemma created by a hypothetical AI therapist healing developmental trauma, in that at some level, the client is passing the "Turing Test" if the therapeutic relationship is central to treatment. That is, successful treatment would be based on a very dark untruth, as AI cannot actually feel pain. This moves to a larger treatment of relational issues concerning AI that have nothing to do with therapy, which leads to the question of whether the aforementioned dark lie already pervades society, regardless of AI. Sander then grills the host on the potential pitfalls of using advanced EMDR technology in the USA.

These episodes featuring Mr. Kamphuis represent a considered and impartial exploration, not an advertisement. It is important to note (as usual) that neither TDT, nor its hosts and associates, have received financial compensation for these episodes. Advertisement of the product's free trial is intended to help you make up your own mind.

TDT's hosts have directly tested WeMind to avoid absolute naiveté, both in real clinical settings, and in a controlled, experimental manner to test its limits.In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Mr. Kamphuis's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong.

Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Svetlana," from Cracked Machine's album I, Cosmonaut. The band has generously donated rights to their music to TDT in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode is the third in a four-part series, featuring a conversation with Sander Kamphuis, CEO and founder of Moovd. He and his colleagues have created an AI-driven, but 100% therapist-controlled EMDR software called WeMind, as explained in previous episodes.

However, this episode has little to do with WeMind itself, and explores what comes next. The cat is out of the bag with regard to AI and EMDR (and the market to be tapped), and it is only a small step in programming to train a large-language model as an all-AI EMDR "therapist," using the sessions and strategies of the best minds in EMDR. If Sander doesn't build it and sell it, someone will. Someone already is, in all likelihood, but there is no regulatory system worth mentioning in the therapy world, as there is in medicine.

The idea conjures up images of compassion on the level of Skynet deciding that best way to prevent nuclear war is to nuke humanity. But such a lack of reflection will not produce the necessary dialogue regarding the inevitability of hyper-intelligent, all-AI therapists, and the proper response.

Episode highlights include:

-The costs and benefits of age in general, and how younger therapists must join the larger dialogue

-How the tech market caters to laziness, with implications for therapy quality

-The risks involved when a hypothetical AI therapist does not recognize early trauma

-The possibility of expert evaluation prior to treatment with an AI therapist, and maintenance of human therapist oversight

-The urgent need for international, legal restrictions on AI therapists comparable to those currently used with "AI radiologists" in medicine.

These episodes featuring Mr. Kamphuis represent a considered and impartial exploration, not an advertisement. It is important to note (as usual) that neither TDT, nor its hosts and associates, have received financial compensation for these episodes. Advertisement of the product's free trial is intended to help you make up your own mind. TDT's hosts have directly tested WeMind to avoid absolute naiveté, both in real clinical settings, and in a controlled, experimental manner to test its limits.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Mr. Kamphuis's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong. Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Desert Haze," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music to TDT in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

In this brief episode (210), titled "Adventures in Synergy Part 2," the host demonstrates one of many trials he has run with Flash and WeMind's AI-optimized software, exploring both how far the limits can be pushed, and investigating the inner workings of EMDR and Flash. Watching the first episode is strongly recommended, or at least reading the episode summary.

Here, a much more disturbing memory has been selected by a different participant. This memory gave the participant a major panic attack days before filming. And, this time, ten seconds with one "Flash" is used, rather than 20 seconds with five "Flashes." So, pushing things to the limit! Other trial videos will not be published, as interesting as they are.

Following the demonstration, which is quite brief, some commentary follows regarding larger theoretical implications, rather than simply analyzing this brief treatment alone.

In future episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to these views, and this video is intended to present rather than endorse the host's perspective. The Dissociative Table Podcast does not specifically endorse the views of the host, nor do any professional organizations. The podcast is not the property of the hosts, and is entirely non-profit.

If you are a clinician, or studying to be one, email dissociativeable@gmail.com to join the clinicians-only discussion board free of charge. The board is moderated, has no membership, and posts can be anonymous.

The music used in this episode is taken from the song, "Yamata No Orochi" from the album Call of the Void, by the band Cracked Machine. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma therapy. Their albums can be sampled, streamed, and purchased at crackedmachine.bandcamp.com.

Disclosure information: The host is an EMDRIA Approved Consultant, as well as being on faculty at the EMDR Institute as a Facilitator. He was trained in Flash when it was first developed, and trained in EMDR 2.0 at its introduction to an outpatient setting. He is currently participating in Moovd's Beta testing of WeMind's AI client, and development of a WeMind/Flash function. He has no financial interest in these pursuits, nor does the podcast have a business or advertising relationship with Moovd.

This episode, "Compassionate Curiosity," features Kathy Steele, famed co-author of The Haunted Self, advocating for a collaborative therapeutic model in resolving severe traumatization, in which attachment phobias are addressed by giving the client (perhaps "gifting" the client) responsibility in treatment. In this manner, the client begins to experience authentic relationship, rather than the therapist supporting maladaptive coping by becoming either a rescuer or an expert (or both).

Ms. Steele is a Past President and Fellow of the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation (ISSTD), and has also served two terms on the Board of the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies (ISTSS). She has received a number of awards for her work, including the Lifetime Achievement Award from ISSTD, an Emory University Distinguished Alumni Award, and the Cornelia B. Wilbur Award for Outstanding Clinical Contributions from ISSTD. Publications include The Haunted Self (co-author), Treating Trauma-Related Dissociation (first author), and many book chapters.

Highlights include:

-How therapists facilitate dependency by reinforcing attachment phobias-Polyvagal theory and the collaborative approach

-The wisdom of prioritizing relationship over knowing "what's going on"-The importance of the client having a persistent "felt sense" of the therapeutic relationship, rather than having unlimited therapist availability and poor boundaries

-Curiosity as a tool for making resistance and relationship rupture the most important moments in treatment-Sharing confusion with the client about treatment direction, to drive collaborative treatment an activate the client's exploration system

-Psychoeducational discussion as an underrated toolLook for Ms. Steele's online trainings, resources, books, and consultation groups at kathy-steele.com.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Ms. Steele's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of her perspective. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts might belong.

Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Low Winter Sun," from Cracked Machine's album Gates of Keras. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at:https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "Controversy! Dialogue! Flash! Exposure!" is an unplanned venture off-script. The host brings up Dr. Phil Manfield's claim (from an earlier TDT episode) that EMDR 2.0 is actually an unnecessarily complex version of Flash--and that the host's recent trials using AI mapping of working memory appear to offer credence to the claim. From the previous segment, the listener will know that EMDR 2.0 is the basis of the guests' work--an accelerated version of EMDR often utilizing exposure, and highly effective in inpatient and outpatient settings. This moves into further discussion of the importance of inspiring courage in traumatized clients, and even making therapy fun, rather than protecting the client like a breakable object. Iconoclastic and exuberant, Ad and Suzy are accomplished academics and clinicians, and their CV's are so long as to require hyperlinks below this paragraph! Ad de Jongh's CV: ⁠https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ad-Jongh⁠ Suzy Matthijssen's CV: ⁠https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Suzy-Matthijssen⁠ Highlights include:

-Are Flash and EMDR 2.0 fundamentally two ways of doing the same thing? Evidence for and against, including the success of Flash with an AI client trained only with EMDR sessions

-The host's experiments with AI-driven software based on EMDR 2.0, to successfully use Flash-The role of fun and encouragement in successful treatment, and how exposure is part and parcel of this

-PTSD conceptualized as an anxiety disorder or phobia, and how "stabilizing" techniques, or "safe spaces" may encourage fear or memories

-Why, despite a significant body of literature building since 2015, there is still no PSYTREC in the USA (hint: insurance companies)

-Resolving attachment issues by treating trauma, rather than the reverse Ad and Suzy have several intensive, online trainings pertaining to precisely what they speak about on this episode, at www.emdradvancedtrainings.com. As well, you can read the PSYTREC research at www.psytrec.nl, although you will need Chrome to translate this page into English. These links also appear halfway through this episode. In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Dr. de Jongh and Dr. Matthijssen's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of their perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong. It should be noted that the host has no connection to the guests through EMDRIA, as the Dutch have their own regulatory body for EMDR trainings and practitioners. Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com. The music in this episode is taken from the song "Transorbital," from Cracked Machine's album I, Cosmonaut. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "Are we wasting our clients' time?" is a discussion with Professors Ad de Jongh and Suzy Mattijssen (part 1 of 2), pioneers in the intensive, brief, research-validated treatment of PTSD, including cases with severe comorbidities like MDD or BPD. Iconoclastic and exuberant, Ad and Suzy are accomplished academics and clinicians, and their CV's are so long as to require hyperlinks below this paragraph! The host presents common objections to their methods from therapeutic community--these generally focus on the way in which dissociative symptoms should be addressed in treatment.

Ad de Jongh's CV: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ad-Jongh Suzy Mattijssen's CV: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Suzy-Matthijssen

Highlights include:

-The largely American cultural phenomenon of treating dissociative symptoms as separate from PTSD symptoms

-Ad and Suzy's claim that there is an irrational fear of dissociative symptoms among some clinicians (especially in the EMDR world), which is not seen in the CBT world

-Highly dissociated childhood memories accessed and resolved by associations naturally made during intensive treatment of recent trauma, rather than years of therapy

-The lack of research validation for the Theory of Structural Dissociation of the Personality, and similar conceptualizations of dissociation as "parts."

-Repression of uncomfortable memories and dissociation of troubling affect as a universal phenomenon, not related directly to trauma

-Therapists increasing the phobia of memories with "safe states," coping skills, and "resourcing."

-The PSYTREC facility, and the role of Working Memory Taxation in overcoming hypervigilance and resolving trauma

Ad and Suzy have several trainings pertaining to precisely what they speak about on this episode, at www.sfrankegroup.com. As well, you can read the PSYTREC research at www.psytrec.nl, although you will need Chrome to translate this page into English. These links also appear halfway through this episode.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Dr. de Jongh and Dr. Mattijssen's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of their perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong. It should be noted that the host has no connection to the guests through EMDRIA, as the Dutch have their own regulatory body for EMDR trainings and practitioners.

Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Typhon," from Cracked Machine's album Call of the Void. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

In this episode, titled "Adventures in Synergy," the host presents an example of a practical intervention created through dialogue on this podcast. The intervention is the application of The Flash Technique using WeMind software (designed for EMDR) and based in Working Memory Taxation theory, with the intention of using this tool for cases of complex trauma that exceed client capacity for even considering the activation of traumatic memories. This video represents an integration of ideas from multiple episodes, developed over time, as is explained in the commentary following the demonstration. Disclosure information: The host is an EMDRIA Approved Consultant, as well as being on faculty at the EMDR Institute as a Facilitator. He was trained in Flash when it was first developed, and trained in EMDR 2.0 at its introduction to an outpatient setting. He is currently participating in Beta testing of WeMind's AI client. He has no financial interest in any of the above, nor in this podcast. Highlights include: -A demonstration of rapid treatment of a significantly disturbing memory with WeMind (AI) optimized Flash -The synthesis of theory and conversation leading to this experiment -A discussion of practical benefits this technique presents to clinicians and clients alike -Possible theoretical implications of the technique for the intersection of Working Memory Taxation theory (EMDR 2.0, WeMind) and subliminal exposure (Flash); namely, that there may be a shared "operating system" that could be further optimized. -A possible explanation of why SUD sometimes doesn't reduce, even without dissociative blocks or blocking beliefs, etc. In future episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to these views, and this video is intended to present rather than endorse the host's perspective. The Dissociative Table Podcast does not specifically endorse the views of the host, nor do any professional organizations.

The music used in this episode is taken from the song, "Move 37," from the album Gates of Keras, by the band Cracked Machine. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma therapy. Their albums can be sampled and purchased at crackedmachine.bandcamp.com.

This episode is the second in a four-part series, featuring a conversation with Sander Kamphuis, CEO and founder of Moovd. He and his colleagues have created an AI-driven EMDR software called WeMind. WeMind is already being used by thousands of therapists with thousands of clients, has involved some of the biggest names in EMDR (Ad de Jongh, for instance), and is the subject of intense academic research.

This second episode begins to explore complexities and ethical issues with AI-optimized therapy. For more general information on WeMind, a demonstration, its basis in Working Memory Taxation theory, and how AI optimizes trauma processing, please consult Episode 204. You can link to Moovd's own description and research at www.moovd.nl/en.

So, again, this episode begins to pose ethical questions regarding the use of WeMind, especially with newly trained EMDR therapists, or consultees in training. For instance, if we learn by making mistakes, what happens to learning when AI makes the mistakes for us? Subsequent episodes will delve even deeper into complexities, including ethical concerns regarding the inevitable development of AI-controlled software that cuts out the therapist entirely. That is, WeMind has produced robust results for clients with even CPTSD, and as a result, EMDR is only the beginning for AI and complex trauma. Regardless of what therapy you use, these four episodes will be of great interest.

Episode highlights include:

-The importance of outcome studies, given the prevalence of "fake cures" in brief treatment that does not adequately explore attachment wounds and highly dissociated early trauma

-AI as an augmentation of clinician skill, rather than a replacement

-Outcome studies with EMDR that integrates exposure in a European manner, something often shocking to US clinicians

-Surprising Jungian connections?

-The host's criticisms of existing research on WeMind

-The host's concerns regarding the use of WeMind with newly trained therapists, as mentioned above

-The possible development of a large language model-based "fake client" of variable complexity, to increase the confidence of new EMDR clinicians, and to further the training of highly skilled clinicians

These episodes featuring Mr. Kamphuis represent a considered and impartial exploration, not an advertisement. It is important to note (as usual) that neither TDT, nor its hosts and associates, have received financial compensation for these episodes. Advertisement of the product's free trial is intended to help you make up your own mind. TDT's hosts have directly tested WeMind to avoid absolute naiveté, both in real clinical settings, and in a controlled, experimental manner to test its limits.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Mr. Kamphuis's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong. Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "The Glowing Sea," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music to TDT in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode is the first in a four-part series, featuring a conversation with Sander Kamphuis, CEO and founder of Moovd. He and his colleagues have created an AI-driven EMDR software called WeMind. WeMind is already being used by thousands of therapists with thousands of clients, has involved some of the biggest names in EMDR (Ad de Jongh, for instance), and is the subject of intense academic research.

This episode contains an introduction to WeMind, how WeMind might develop further in the near future, and a discussion of variant European and American approaches to trauma therapy.

Three subsequent episodes will delve deep into complexities, including possible ethical concerns related to using AI with any therapy for complex trauma, not only EMDR. WeMind has produced robust results for clients with PTSD, and as a result, EMDR is only the beginning for AI and complex trauma. Regardless of what therapy you use, these four episodes will be of great interest.

WeMind is based on the Working Memory Taxation theory of how EMDR operates, and its AI reacts to clients' input on WMT tasks to optimize reprocessing. Initial research indicates a 49% decrease in the time needed to desensitize traumatic memories in PTSD clients (EMDR Phase 4), and research is ongoing to investigate the use with other phases of EMDR, and with more complex clients.

This and subsequent episodes are a considered and impartial exploration, not an advertisement. In later episodes, as mentioned, some very hard questions are asked, and admirably answered by Mr. Kamphuis. It is important to note (as usual) that neither TDT, nor its hosts and associates, have received financial compensation for these episodes. TDT has also directly tested WeMind to avoid absolute naiveté, both in real clinical settings, and in a controlled, experimental manner to test its limits.

Highlights include:

-An introduction to WeMind, including the Working Memory Taxation theory of EMDR that forms the foundations of AI optimization, and how the AI models the client's mind

-The technological implications for an age-related "changing of the guard" in the therapy world

-A brief WeMind demo, with video of the interface

-Differences in European and US clinicians' attitude toward the integration of exposure with EMDR versus extensive "resourcing" prior to reprocessing, with possible reasons and motivations for this

-Recent research and upcoming studies-Sander's argument for the importance of incorporating AI into EMDR, as drawn from the established use of AI in radiology.

Sander's company Moovd, with extensive information on WeMind and access to research, can be found at www.moovd.nl/e. Moovd offers a free trial of WeMind, such that clinicians can decide for themselves.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Mr. Kamphuis's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong.

Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Burning Mountain," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music to TDT in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "The 'T' in N.E.S.T.: Preverbal trauma, narrative, and esoterica," is the fourth part (of four) of a conversation with Dr. Sandra Paulsen, arguably EMDR's most well-known authority on complex dissociative issues.

In this episode, she speaks about the topic she is most widely known for: the integration of Ego-State Therapy with EMDR. Dr. Paulsen is an active clinician, prolific author, and educator. Her lengthy CV includes dozens of published articles in peer-reviewed journals, and can be found at paulsenpsychology.com. Her more accessible books are most EMDR clinicians' introduction to treating complex trauma. A "cartooning psychologist," she also has an Etsy store! (sandrapaulsenphdart.etsy.com) Highlights include: -Somatic ego cathexis: speaking to parts (of the body!)

-Continued discussion of working with perpetrator introjects

-The early trauma protocol for EMDR to address preverbal attachment injury, including before birth (sounds impossible, but supported by neuroscience)

-Repairing early narrative with imaginal techniques and the "felt sense" of secure attachment at the time, as opposed to reparenting interventions that work from the adult mind.

-Dr. Paulsen's strategically-oriented perspective on the role of archetypes and dreams in understanding complex trauma

-Resolving nightmares quickly

-John Watkins' "tuna processing plant" theory of titrating the reprocessing of traumatic memories with ego-state therapy Dr. Paulsen's books, endorsed equipment, and art can be found at www.paulsenpsychology.com. Most of her online trainings are located at www.sfrankelgroup.com. In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Dr. Paulsen's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong. Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com. The music in this episode is taken from the song "Eigenstate," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "The N.E.S.T. Model: Ego-State Therapy approaches for the dissociated 'S' (self)" is the third part (of four) of a conversation with Dr. Sandra Paulsen, arguably EMDR's most well-known authority on complex dissociative issues. In this episode, she speaks about the topic she is most widely known for: the integration of Ego-State Therapy with EMDR. Dr. Paulsen is an active clinician, prolific author, and educator. Her lengthy CV includes dozens of published articles in peer-reviewed journals, and can be found at paulsenpsychology.com. Her more accessible books are most EMDR clinicians' introduction to treating complex trauma. A "cartooning psychologist," she also has an Etsy store! Dr. Paulsen's work, besides being most EMDR therapists' first step in treating complex trauma, includes dozens of published scientific articles and host of books and book chapters. She has hosted a large number online trainings integrating Ego-State Therapy, attachment theory, and the work of Jaak Panksepp, uniquely having one foot in neuroscience and one foot in more esoteric aspects of treatment. Many trainings are available on www.sfrankelgroup.com. Her most popular works provide accessible training to beginning clinicians, and her reputation as a "cartooning psychologist" comes from these. A more complete bio is available on her website, www.paulsenpsychology.com, where you can also purchase her most popular books. She also is active on social media--and for her cartoons, on Etsy as well! (sandrapaulsenphdart.etsy.com)

Highlights include:

-The integral connection between Ego-State work and somatic techniques discussed in the last episode

-Accessing traumatic affect and dealing with blocked processing by "interviewing the body"

-The misunderstanding of "ego energy" as a pseudo-spiritual or unscientific concept

-The scarcity of training resources in Ego-State Therapy, and where to find what exists

-The advantages of Ego-State Therapy over other methods of working with dissociative parts of the self

-A discussion of the common criticism that therapists create parts of self by suggestion in attachment-wounded clients

-A defense of working with parts of self based on demonstrable connections to physical intrusions of traumatic affect, and related changes that take place during successful treatment

Dr. Paulsen's books, endorsed equipment, and art can be found at www.paulsenpsychology.com. Most of her online trainings are located at www.sfrankelgroup.com.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Dr. Paulsen's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong.

Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Song of Artemis," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "Mechanisms of healing: Flash, OCD, EMDR 2.0, and research validity" is the fourth part (of four) of a conversation with Dr. Phil Manfield. Dr. Manfield is now best known as the creator of the Flash Technique, and for decades has been one of the most influential EMDR educators worldwide.

Episode highlights include:

-Dr. Manfield presents an argument that Ad de Jongh's EMDR 2.0 is actually a more complex version of Flash, and shares some personal anectdotes.

-The remarkably successful treatment of OCD by non-specialist Flash practitioners is discussed, with the mechanism of healing contrasted with the most successful current methods.

-Criticisms are raised surrounding publication standards in the psychology literature, in that less-successful treatments promoted simply because they fit a particular research model. Dr. Manfield provides a shocking example that was recently exposed.

-The host and Dr. Manfield reflect on how the role of conversation between colleagues has been lost amid the divide of research and practice.

-A call is made for clinicians using any serious modality to explore how Flash can speed their process when heightened emotional response derails treatment.

Dr. Manfield is the author or editor of five books on psychotherapy, an international EMDRIA-Approved EMDR trainer, and creator of The Flash Technique. A more detailed bio is contained in the first episode of this series. His websites are www.flashtechnique.com, and www.emdrvideo.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Jormundandr," from Cracked Machine's album Call of the Void. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Be sure to check out their new album, Wormwood, at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "The N.E.S.T. Model: Somatic approaches as essential to the fundamentally embodied nature of complex trauma," is the second part (of four) of a conversation with Dr. Sandra Paulsen, arguably EMDR's most well-known authority on complex dissociative issues. Dr. Paulsen is an active clinician, prolific author, and educator. Her more accessible books are most EMDR clinicians' introduction to treating complex trauma. A "cartooning psychologist," she also has an Etsy store! Dr. Paulsen's work, besides being most EMDR therapists' first step in treating complex trauma, includes dozens of published scientific articles and host of books and book chapters. She has hosted a large number online trainings integrating Ego-State Therapy, attachment theory, and the work of Jaak Panksepp, uniquely having one foot in neuroscience and one foot in more esoteric aspects of treatment. Many trainings are available on www.sfrankelgroup.com. Her most popular works provide accessible training to beginning clinicians, and her reputation as a "cartooning psychologist" comes from these. A more complete bio is available on her website, www.paulsenpsychology.com, where you can also purchase her most popular books. She also is active on social media--and for her cartoons, on Etsy as well! (sandrapaulsenphdart.etsy.com)

Highlights include: -Neurofeedback and similar (more affordable) interventions and equipment are discussed as helpful adjunct for efficient treatment. -Dr. Paulsen mentions new research that may change psychiatrists' general opinion regarding being part of a treatment team with therapists treating complex trauma. -Split-brain studies and hemispheric specialization are discussed as explanatory of "odd" symptoms, and as excellent for client psychoeducation/destigmatization. -Misconceptions and myths surrounding so-called "repressed memories" are addressed, with the concept of highly-dissociated traumatic experience normalized. -Dr. Paulsen describes the automatic dissociation-detecting nature of EMDR as a phenomenon leading to many clinicians seeking further education, such as that in her own trainings and books. Dr. Paulsen's books, endorsed equipment, and art can be found at www.paulsenpsychology.com. Most of her online trainings are located at www.sfrankelgroup.com. In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Dr. Paulsen's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong. Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com. The music in this episode is taken from the song "I, Cosmonaut," from Cracked Machine's album of the same name. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

"A Question of Pain: Grief and catharsis in EMDR, Flash, and psychodynamic approaches," is the third part (of four) of a conversation with Dr. Phil Manfield. Dr. Manfield is now best known as the creator of the Flash Technique, but for decades has been one of the most influential EMDR educators worldwide.

This episode represents the best of what TDT intends to offer, which is a challenging, opinionated, but lighthearted conversation about the role of narrative in treating complex trauma. Highlights include

-The host presents voiced challenges to Dr. Manfield's models of treatment, based on objections that neglect is an *absence* of memories, and that attachment pain must be experienced to be grieved.

-Dr. Manfield narrates his own early experience of attachment-based therapy according to a psychodynamic model, and offers this as a contrast to his approach.

-Criticisms of certain psychodynamic models of complex trauma treatment, in particular a recent attempt to integrate EMDR with Schema Therapy.

-EMDR discussed as a "dissociation detector," altering the careers of therapists who did not previously notice complex trauma as widespread.

-Grieving the narrative as a healing approach, rather than the need to experience catharsis through pain.

-Dr. Francine Shapiro's radical impact on the understanding of trauma and traumatology (AIP model), and the need for a "visceral shift" in healing.

-A discussion of how psychodynamic (and other models) can successfully incorporate Flash simply to save time and pain, without a "mashup" of modalities that requires reconceptualizing one's treatment modality.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Dr. Manfield's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the host or guest might belong.

Dr. Manfield is the author or editor of five books on psychotherapy, an international EMDRIA-Approved EMDR trainer, and creator of The Flash Technique. A more detailed bio is contained in the first episode of this series. His websites are www.flashtechnique.com, and www.emdrvideo.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Temple of Zaum," from Cracked Machine's album Gates of Keras. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com

This episode, titled "The Great Taboo: The role of literature and myth in understanding complex trauma," features the second part of a conversation with NPD expert, author, and clinician Wendy Behary. One of today's most influential figures in the Schema Therapy world, she specializes in the treatment of covert narcissism. This segment unexpectedly evolved into a discussion of psychodynamic esoterica often eschewed or outright rejected by the trauma therapy world. A dangerous episode, certain to be loved or hated!

Highlights include:

-The host's conceptualization of certain resentful fight parts as resembling the Faust archetype, and Ms. Behary's comparison of this to the "super-suffering" covert NPD presentation

-The function of this phenomenon in covert NPD as an avoidance of accepting personal responsibility for flaws, given a childhood in which this was unacceptable

-The perpetrator as as an abused child's only model for power, seen through the lens of Goethe's interpretation of Mephistopheles

-Janet's concept of the "substitute action" in thwarted defense systems as it may apply to a Schema understanding of simultaneous loyalty to and hatred of an abusive caregiver.

-"Ego-states" as possibly analogous to "Schema Modes"

-Differentiation of the cases of traumatized clients with an NPD presentation, and traumatized clients with "NPD" dissociative parts; possible treatment in microcosm

-Practical advice for therapists dealing with NPD clients who are both tragic victims, and victimizers: countertransference, boundaries, confrontation as compassion, and self-care

And finally,

-A brief argument by the host for the validity of studying and treating complex trauma through the lens of archetypes common to world literature and mythology

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Ms. Behary's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of her perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the host or guest might belong.

Ms. Behary is the Founder and Director of the Cognitive Therapy Center of New Jersey, and the Schema Therapy Institutes of New York City, DC, and New Jersey. She is a founding Fellow and consulting supervisor for the Academy of Cognitive Therapy. She served as President of the Executive Board of the International Society for Schema Therapy (ISST) from 2010-2014, and now sits on the ISST's Training and Advisory Board. She is the author of or contributor to 14 publications, and her book "Disarming the Narcissist" has been translated into 16 languages.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Kirimu," from Cracked Machine's album Call of the Void. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

Get no-cost, no-membership access to the TDT online discussion forum for clinicians and those studying to be clinicians. Sign up by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com. You will be placed on the anonymous TDT Clinical Associate list, which will also send an email when there is a new episode (no spam, and you can opt out). With basic proof that you are either a licensed clinician or studying to be one (including undergraduates), you get instant access to the TDT discussion forum, where you can speak to other clinicians/students about episodes, topics, and modalities. There is no membership; you are simply sent a link, and can begin posting immediately. Posts are anonymous, just like the TDT Clinical Associate email list. So what is basic proof of being a clinician/student? Whatever. Something easy. A photo of a degree or license on your office wall right now. Or a student registration document with a current date. Nothing that requires effort. It won't be kept on file or shared. TDT recognizes the risks inherent in creating an informal discussion with no membership or absolute proof of eligibility as a clinician/student. However, formalizing this with membership (although that enables removing individuals who cause trouble) places TDT in the role of yet another organization, rather than a means of encouraging dialogue between groups. So it's a risk, but the alternative is perpetuating the lack of interdisciplinary dialogue. Check out TDT on Spotify and Apple Podcasts as well. The music for this video is provided, as always, by Cracked Machine, in this instance, "Jormungandr" from the album Call of the Void. This generous donation by the band is made in support of increased global access to effective trauma therapy. (crackedmachine.bandcamp.com)

In this episode, titled "The N.E.S.T. Model: Treating the "N" in complex trauma (Neuroaffective)" Dr. Sandra Paulsen, who played a (the?) major role in taking the EMDR world into the field of treating complex traumatic dissociation, speaks about her integrative treatment model. This episode will be of great interest to any frustrated therapist! See below for an index of topics covered.

Dr. Paulsen's work, besides being most EMDR therapists' first step in treating complex trauma, includes dozens of published scientific articles and host of books and book chapters. She has hosted a large number online trainings integrating Ego-State Therapy, attachment theory, and the work of Jaak Panksepp, uniquely having one foot in neuroscience and one foot in more esoteric aspects of treatment. Many trainings are available on www.sfrankelgroup.com. Her most popular works provide accessible training to beginning clinicians, and her reputation as a "cartooning psychologist" comes from these. A more complete bio is available on her website, www.paulsenpsychology.com, where you can also purchase her most popular books. She also is active on social media--and for her cartoons, on Etsy as well! (sandrapaulsenphdart.etsy.com)

Some major topics covered are:

-Dealing with complex trauma through the lens of neuroscience, especially the work of Jaak Panksepp

-The relevance of Structural Dissociation theory to even the first weeks of life, and the need for special methods to access non-narrative memory

-The critical nature of dealing with perpetrator introjects ASAP, and how this phenomenon commonly undermines treatment.

-"Temporal integration" as a gentler method (working forward rather than backward) -Limitations of standard, unmodified approaches, with special attention to locating early trauma that blocks treatment of later trauma

-Symptoms as a "shrine" to the neglectful or abusive caregiver

-Imagination as the major tool for accessing early trauma

 -The tragedy of the "foster care to prison pipeline"

In future and previous episodes, guests offer counterpoints to these views, and this video is intended to present rather than endorse Dr. Paulsen's perspectives. The host has a connection to Dr. Paulsen through EMDRIA membership and the EMDR Institute, and likewise, The Dissociative Table does not specifically endorse the views of the host.

The music used in this episode is taken from the song "Vritra," from the album Call of the Void, by the band Cracked Machine. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma therapy.

In this episode, titled "A Flash of Insight: Innovative approaches for unusual or highly dissociative presentations," internationally acclaimed trauma therapist, author, and instructor Dr. Phil Manfield addresses the following topics: -The power of laughter, beyond its incorporation into technical elements of Flash -Intersections between the languages of Flash, Adaptive Information Processing Theory (EMDR), and the Theory of Structural Dissociation of the Personality -Conceptualizations and approaches highly variant to those enshrined in psychodynamic modalities, often thought critical for treatment in: **Cases in which the client has no narrative memory for large sections, or all, of childhood **Cases of chronic, sustained abuse (i.e., innumerable traumatic memories) **Treatment of preverbal trauma In future episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to these views, and this video is intended to present rather than endorse Dr. Manfield's perspectives. The host has a connection to Dr. Manfield through EMDRIA membership and some shared modalities, and likewise, The Dissociative Table does not specifically endorse the views of the host. Dr. Manfield is the author or editor of five books on psychotherapy, an international EMDRIA-Approved EMDR trainer, creator of The Flash Technique. A more complete bio is contained in the first episode of this series. His websites are www.flashtechnique.com, and www.emdrvideo.com. The music used in this episode is taken from the song, "Azi Dahaka," from the album Call of the Void, by the band Cracked Machine. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma therapy.

This episode, titled "Covert Narcissism as a Development of the 'Child's Unheard Story' in Complex Trauma," features the first part of an interdisciplinary dialogue with NPD expert, author, and clinician Wendy Behary. One of today's most influential figures in the Schema Therapy world, she specializes in the treatment of covert narcissism. In this episode, the following topics are prominent: -"Covert narcissism" as an under-diagnosed presentation of complex trauma -NPD as the result of a more functional coping with disorganized attachment than BPD, as the result of temperament -Neglect as the source of "odd" symptoms separating personality disorders from more traditional trauma presentations -Comorbidity of NPD with dissociative disorders -ACE's and "covert narcissism' -Intersections between the languages of Schema Therapy, EMDR, Structural Dissociation theory, and Ego-State Therapy -Complex trauma as the result of disrupted narrative In future episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Ms. Behary's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of her perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which they might belong. Ms. Behary is the Founder and Director of the Cognitive Therapy Center of New Jersey, and the Schema Therapy Institutes of New York City, DC, and New Jersey. She is a founding fellow and consulting supervisor for the Academy of Cognitive Therapy. She served as President of the Executive Board of the International Society for Schema Therapy (ISST) from 2010-2014, and now sits on the ISST's Training and Advisory Board. She is the author of or contributor to 14 publications, and her book "Disarming the Narcissist" has been translated into 16 languages. All music in this episode is taken from the song "New Vostok," from the album I, Cosmonaut, by the band Cracked Machine. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma therapy.

In this episode, titled "Attention, Neglect, and Integration: Affect Tolerance in Flash and EMDR," internationally acclaimed trauma therapist, author, and instructor Dr. Phil Manfield addresses the following topics: -The current use of the Flash Technique in Ukraine -Neurobiological underpinnings of trauma processing -Possibilities for reducing dropout rates in trauma therapy through integrative methods -How his own traumatic experience led him to his preference for efficient treatment with certain modalities and approaches -The conceptualization of complex trauma as fundamentally related to neglect, and the roles of attention and narrative in healing -FMRI studies and the conceptualization of trauma as a phobic phenomenon

In future episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to these views, and this video is intended to present rather than endorse Dr. Manfield's perspectives. The host has a connection to Dr. Manfield through EMDRIA membership and some shared modalities, and likewise, The Dissociative Table does not specifically endorse the views of the host.

Dr. Manfield is the author or editor of five books on psychotherapy, an international EMDRIA-Approved EMDR trainer, creator of The Flash Technique. His websites are www.flashtechnique.com, and www.emdrvideo.com.

The music used in this episode is taken from the song, "The Wood Demon," from the album Gates of Keras, by the band Cracked Machine. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma therapy.