Nathan Schneider (@ntnsndr), professor of media studies at the University of Colorado Boulder and director of the Media Economies Design Lab, joined the Decentralization Research Center's podcast to discuss his new paper, “Online Governance Surfaces and Attention Economies,” how attention functions as labor, and what it means to design governance systems that respect people’s time and focus.

Timestamps:

02:31 Why attention and governance are inseparable

04:47 The hidden costs of democracy: governance as labor

09:44 Attention scarcity vs. collective abundance

12:59 “To look is to labor”: attention as work

18:45 Designing ethically for people’s attention

22:18 Case study 1: DAOstack and prediction markets for governance

27:20 Case study 2: Stewards and delegated attention

31:25 Case study 3: The limits of automation

37:31 Five heuristics for designing attention-aware governance

46:34 How to evolve attention economies as organizations scale

56:27 Upcoming projects from Nathan’s lab and Metagov

Gabriel Shapiro, a crypto lawyer and founder of MetaLeX, joins the Decentralization Research Center’s Connor Spelliscy to discuss market structure legislation, limiting principles for Howey, ancillary assets, and the risks of incentivizing useless tokens.

Timestamps:

02:37 - Beyond decentralization: are there limiting principles for Howey?

06:11 - Prior Senate draft vs. CLARITY Act: ancillary assets explained

09:29 - Why CLARITY’s framework is more durable

13:53 - Incentivizing rights-less tokens: “race-to-the-bottom stuff”

16:01 - Bad incentives: reporting obligations & walking away from protocols

19:36 - VC token sales: 60% in initial Senate draft vs. 5–20% in House bill

22:28 - Decentralized governance: protections in CLARITY vs. Senate

26:37 - What “amazing” SEC exemptions could look like

28:54 - SEC vs. CFTC: who should regulate token markets

30:32 - The importance of a hard-coded decentralization test

& much more.

For more: Subscribe to the DRC's monthly report.

Jane Khodarkovsky, a former federal prosecutor who is now a partner at Arktouros, and Nikhil Raghuveera, co-founder and CEO of Predicate, join the Decentralization Research Center’s Tony Douglas to discuss regulation by enforcement, developer liability, privacy tools, AI agents, and how to responsibly build the next generation of financial infrastructure.

Timestamps:

01:42 - From public service to blockchain innovation

04:03 - Why work on blockchain and emerging tech?

07:50 - Developer liability and regulation

16:37 - Building policy infrastructure into networks

26:05 - How regulators keep pace with AI and crypto

33:26 - Advice for students and early-career builders

38:00 - Closing thoughts and reflections

& much more. 

How does bipartisan education occur in Washington? Where can it be improved? George Leonardo (@CapHillCrypto) of Cap Hill Crypto joins the Techquitable podcast to discuss what he's seeing on the Hill.

Timestamps: 

00:00 - Introduction and background

01:35 - Why George launched Cap Hill Crypto

03:31 - Educating DC policymakers about decentralization

05:15 - Insights into House-Senate collaboration on stablecoin bills

06:56 - Exploring the partisan dynamics of crypto policy in 2024

09:55 - George's outlook for crypto policy this Congress

& much more. 
You can also listen to the full episode on the podcast player of your choice, here: https://podfollow.com/1730611363

Jonathan Galea (@ImpermanentGain), counsel at Cahill, Gordon, & Reindel LLP, joins Connor Spelliscy (@c_spelliscy) to break down the evolving definition of decentralization under MiCA and the broader EU regulatory framework.

They explore what “sufficient decentralization” means in Europe, how regulators like ESMA and national authorities like Denmark’s FSA are approaching DeFi, and what U.S. policymakers can learn from the EU's years-long legislative process.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Intro

01:03 - Why MiCA mentions decentralization but doesn’t define it clearly

04:58 - ESMA’s closest attempt: the “permissionless” standard

06:31 - Critique of Denmark’s decentralization paper

08:10 - The importance of the definition of a CASP (crypto asset service provider)

13:30 - Will DeFi see real exemptions under MiCA?

14:58 - The EU's risk-based, “light touch” DeFi approach

17:08 - How European regulators compare to the SEC on decentralization

22:30 - Why the term “decentralization” may be overrated

25:45 - A practical approach for lawmakers: reverse-engineer from DeFi best practices

& much more.

Miles Jennings of a16z (@milesjennings) and Sarah Brennan of Delphi Ventures (@SH_Brennan) join Connor Spelliscy to discuss the critical control test for decentralization, which has been mentioned in Safe Harbor proposals, including one proposed by Sarah and the Decentralization Research Center.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

01:28 The latest on legislation discussions in Washington 

04:26 Zooming out: Is the current industry approach the right one?

09:51 Updated control test for decentralization

16:18 Key concerns about prior control tests

21:16 Wish lists for market structure bills

27:35 What happens if FIT21 doesn’t pass?

& much more

You can also listen to the full episode on the podcast player of your choice, here: https://podfollow.com/1730611363

SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce spoke with us at the Decentralized Tech Summit to share her thoughts on how decentralization should impact securities regulation, her work leading the SEC's Crypto Task Force and exit tests for her proposed Safe Harbor. It was one of her most detailed public conversations focused solely on decentralization.

Timestamps:

[1:06] How crypto roundtables impact rulemaking

[4:12] Marrying existing regulation with future rules

[9:40] How the industry can best engage with the administration

[11:17] Managing retail protection without harming builders

[13:26] Her changing perspective on the Safe Harbor exit test

[19:40] What to expect next from the SEC

[21:14] How the SEC achieves their crypto-related goals

& much more. 

The author of “The Very Brief History of Decentralized Blockchain Governance”, Dr. Abramowicz, joined the Techquitable podcast to discuss how governance over decentralized blockchain communities has evolved over time. 

Timestamps:

[3:10] - Dr. Abramowicz experience with decentralized governance

[6:00] - The history of decentralized adjudication

[8:30] - The importance of incentives

[11:35] - How decentralization solves certain problems

[20:15] - Does technology actually make decentralization easier?

[25:00] - Why the court system is an important reference point for crypto
You can read Dr. Abramowicz’s paper in the Vanderbilt Journal of Entertainment and Technology Law, here: https://scholarship.law.vanderbilt.edu/jetlaw/vol22/iss2/2/

The authors of recently published “Blockchain Governance”  joined the Techquitable podcast to discuss how governance over blockchain communities is formed. 

It was a pleasure to learn about their research on governance and the importance of decentralization in blockchain communities.

Timestamps:

[2:40] - Why collaborate to write a book on blockchain governance?

[6:15] - Who should read the book? Why?

[17:00] - Tension between how regulation should work, and how it actually does

[28:35] - Different governance structures

[34:11] - Will we reach a consistent perspective on the optimal blockchain governance approach?

[41:00] - What each author hopes readers learn from their book

For more on each guest:

Primavera (@yaoeo) is a Director of Research at the National Center of Scientific Research (CNRS) in Paris, Faculty Associate at the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University.

Wessel (@WesselReijers) is a Postdoctoral Researcher at the Department of Media Studies, Paderborn University, where he explores the nature of distributed governance.

Morshed (@MannanMorshed) is a Research Fellow at the Robert Schuman Centre for Advanced Studies at the European University Institute, where his research focuses on blockchain governance.

@ahall_research is the Davies Family Professor of Political Economy at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. 

Andy has also advised major tech companies — such as Meta — and worked closely with web3 leaders via @a16zcrypto’s research team on governance and democratic systems.

It was a pleasure to have Andy on the Techquitable podcast to share his perspective on platform governance, AI regulation, decentralized communities and much more. 

Timestamps:

[2:10] - How the 2016 election influenced Andy’s career

[10:55] - Why Andy was willing to embrace blockchain before most professors

[17:05] - The relationship between research and Web3

[20:15] - Will the excitement of crypto fade?

[23:00] - Where Web3 experiments in governance might lead

[27:50] - Andy on why he is optimistic about the future

[36:20] - Should organizations strive towards decentralization?

@sheila_warren is the CEO of the Crypto Council for Innovation, a premier global alliance for advancing the promise of digital assets through research, education and advocacy.

In 2023, Sheila was voted one of the most influential women in DC by the Washingtonian and previously founded the World Economic Forum’s blockchain and digital assets team.

It was a pleasure to have her join the Techquitable podcast to share her perspective on the stalled crypto policy in America, her work at CCI and much more. 

Timestamps:

[1:50] - Sheila’s background in data 

[6:39] - The new Trump administration’s impact on crypto

[14:25] - The importance of crypto in the recent U.S. election

[19:45] - CCI’s approach to policy engagement

[20:40] - Decentralization as the next foundational question

[23:20] - Interoperability between critical jurisdictions

[29:10] - Sheila’s biggest concern for the crypto industry

Dr. Kelsie Nabben (@kelsiemvn) is an ethnographic researcher specializing in the social impacts of emerging technologies, particularly decentralized digital infrastructure (including blockchains, peer-to-peer protocols, and DAOs) and other algorithmic systems (such as LLMs).

She joined the Techquitable podcast to discuss computer aided ethnography, her research on distributed systems, Web 3’s Security Alliance and much more. 

Timestamps:

[1:45] - Kelsie’s unique background

[3:45] - Resilience and decentralized technologies

[6:40] - Research challenges in digital world

[9:20] - Vulnerabilities in digital networks

[17:50] - Dr. Nabben’s early findings

[27:00] - Accountability in Web 3

[31:00] - Social and technical governance

[38:00] - Future role of decentralized technologies

Dr. Nabben’s work includes: 

(1) Is a "Decentralized Autonomous Organization" a Panopticon?: Algorithmic governance as creating and mitigating vulnerabilities in DAOs: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3907693 
(2) Governing Blockchain Security: White Hat Hackers ‘Code of Conduct’: https://kelsienabben.substack.com/p/governing-blockchain-security-white

Paul Brigner leads the Coinbase Institute and is the founder of the PGP* (Pretty Good Policy) for Crypto group. He joined us on the Techquitable podcast to discuss what he’s hearing in Washington, the importance of decentralization and much more.

Timestamps:

[3:00] - Paul’s unique background

[9:20] - The progression of the internet

[11:40] - The current blockchain advocacy community in DC

[19:40] - Announcing the DC Privacy Summit

[20:55] - How to best educate staffers and opportunities for blockchain

[25:45] - The importance of decentralization

[32:00] - How do we avoid the mistakes of the past?

Kyle Bligen, Director of Financial Policy at the Chamber of Progress joins the Techquitable podcast to discuss what he’s hearing in Washington on legislation affecting blockchain technology, decentralization and much more.

Timestamps:

[0:30] - Introduction to Kyle

[2:50] - What Kyle is hearing on the Hill

[7:40] - The current campaign landscape and former President Trump

[10:00] - Policy priorities ahead of the election

[15:00] - Are policymakers sufficiently educated?

[20:00] - Is policy trending in an equitable direction?

[25:12] - Kyle’s recommendations for future policy

[33:11] - A look into Congress and their relationship with blockchain technology

What impact will the future of blockchains have on constitutions and institutions?

DRC Executive Director Connor Spelliscy spoke with DRC Fellow Professor Eric Alston on the Techquitable podcast to discuss Eric's career in economics and law, decentralization in digital governance, and much more. 

Timestamps:

0:30 - Eric’s journey through economics and institutions

4:13 - Mapping a career path

10:13 - Zero-knowledge proofs and privacy rights in the digital age

23:17 - Steps required for an equitable future

28:11 - How to best connect with Eric

Congressman Wiley Nickel (@RepWileyNickel) is currently serving his first term in Congress as the U.S. Representative of the 13th District of North Carolina which includes Wake, Wayne, Johnston and Harnett Counties.

Prior to being elected to Congress, Wiley served as a North Carolina State Senator, attorney, small business owner and worked for two White House administrations.

This conversation occurred at the 2024 Equitable Tech Summit, which the DRC co-hosted in Washington, D.C.

0:55 - Why does the Congressman engage in tech policy?

4:10 - How can policy balance innovation and consumer protection?

7:00 - Will President Joe Biden soften his stance on digital assets?

10:40 - The importance of decentralization

16:20 - How academics can best influence policy

23:35 - What does equitable ownership and governance mean to Congressman Wiley?

Nathan Schneider (@ntnsndr), joins the podcast to discuss the need for accountable centralized structures in decentralized participation and the importance of designing governable spaces. 

9:12 - Ethics and power dynamics in emerging tech 15:07 - Democracy's decline in the digital domain 20:26 - Technology's illusion of power 21:40 - Decentralization and its varied definitions 24:59 - Balancing decentralization in blockchain governance 27:25 - Innovating governance in online networks 30:45 - The perils of running a social media platform 33:27 - Evolving governance models in DAOs 38:06 - Diverse and equitable tech ecosystems 41:31 - Decentralizing social media and public interest 46:06 - Nathan's new book, 'Governable Spaces'

SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce shares her perspective on innovation, securities law and blockchain technology, and whether the three can co-exist.

Show highlights:

0:00 - Intro

4:57 - How should regulators approach emerging tech?

6:50 - The importance of open collaboration between industry, regulators, and the public.

8:30 - Leveraging social media for a new perspective. 

10:47 - Commissioner Peirce defines decentralization. 

11:54 - When decentralization is useful and when it isn't.

15:13 - Why talking about and implementing emerging technologies is so difficult.

17:36 - Developing a philosophy on governance and policy making.

19:42 - Balancing laissez-faire economics and strict regulation.

24:37 - Blockchain's intersection with regulation.

26:08 - Adapting to emerging technologies in the future.

28:58 - Inspiring policymakers and regulators to learn about emerging tech.

32:05 - Encouraging ethical innovation and mindful regulation.

Shrey Jain is a Research Fellow at the Decentralization Research Center and Technical Program Manager at Microsoft and Co-Founder of the Plural Technology Collaboratory at Microsoft Research.

In this spotlight episode Shrey shares his work on artificial intelligence following his late 2023 publication of Contextual Confidence and Generative AI.

Ari Juels is the Weill Family Foundation and Joan and Sanford I. Weill Professor in the Jacobs Technion-Cornell Institute at Cornell Tech and the Technion and a Computer Science faculty member at Cornell University. He is a Co-Director of the Initiative for CryptoCurrencies and Contracts (IC3). He is also Chief Scientist at Chainlink Labs.

He is the author of crypto thriller novel The Oracle (Talos Press).