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Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
The Institute for Public Policy Research
30 episodes
5 days ago
A podcast from the IPPR Inclusion Taskforce What does truly inclusive education look like, and how can we make it better? Hosted by Geoff Barton, former general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders (ASCL) and chair of the IPPR Inclusion Taskforce, this series features conversations with parents, teachers, young people, and experts from across the UK. With support from Margaret Mulholland, SEN and Inclusion Policy Specialist at ASCL, the podcast asks what’s working, what’s not, and where change should begin. Talking Inclusion blends lived experience with policy insight
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Education
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A podcast from the IPPR Inclusion Taskforce What does truly inclusive education look like, and how can we make it better? Hosted by Geoff Barton, former general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders (ASCL) and chair of the IPPR Inclusion Taskforce, this series features conversations with parents, teachers, young people, and experts from across the UK. With support from Margaret Mulholland, SEN and Inclusion Policy Specialist at ASCL, the podcast asks what’s working, what’s not, and where change should begin. Talking Inclusion blends lived experience with policy insight
Show more...
Education
Episodes (20/30)
Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Reimagining inclusion through the arts" with Richard Hayhow

In this episode, Geoff Barton speaks with Richard Hayhow, Director of Open Theatre in Birmingham, about how the arts can unlock the creativity and capability of young people with learning disabilities.

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1 week ago
19 minutes 42 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Inclusion begins with belonging" with SENDScope

In this episode, Geoff Barton speaks with Natalie Walsh and Jacqui Bebbington, Executive Principals of SENDScope Independent School in Liverpool, about how they support young people for whom mainstream education isn’t working. They discuss how a culture of belonging, high expectations, and adaptive teaching helps students re-engage with learning — and, in many cases, return to mainstream education with renewed confidence.

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1 week ago
23 minutes 39 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Inclusion by design, not by chance" with John Camp

In this episode, Geoff Barton talks to John Camp OBE, Chief Executive Officer of the Compass Partnership of Schools. Sharing an important philosophy that inclusion starts with belonging, that parents must be partners, and that the most powerful agents of change are the adults in our schools.

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1 week ago
18 minutes 16 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Inside the classrooms you didn’t know existed" with Cath Kitchen

In this episode, Geoff Barton speaks with Cath Kitchen, Chair of the National Association of Hospital Education, about the often-overlooked world of children with medical needs. Cath explains how hospital education covers not only hospital schools but also medical alternative provision, home tuition, and online learning — all supporting children too unwell to attend mainstream school. She highlights the postcode lottery in provision, where some children receive rich, full-time teaching and others only a few hours a week.

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2 weeks ago
16 minutes 25 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"EHCPs shouldn’t be the only way to get support" with John Pearce

In this episode, Geoff Barton speaks with John Pearce, Corporate Director for Children and Young People’s Services in County Durham, about the realities of inclusion and SEND provision in England. Drawing on over 30 years in local government, John explains the complex web of responsibilities local authorities hold — from managing EHCPs to ensuring educational outcomes for all children — often without the powers or resources to fully deliver them.

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2 weeks ago
19 minutes 31 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"You’re against the clock and in the dark" with Beth and Michael

In this episode, Margaret Mulholland is joined by parents Beth and Michael, who share their story navigating the SEND system for their four-year-old son. They discuss the long waits for diagnosis and EHCP assessment, the confusion around choosing between mainstream and specialist settings, and the lack of transparency that leaves many parents feeling unsupported and invisible in the process.

This conversation highlights a crucial truth: even families inside the system often can’t see the path ahead — a reminder of how urgently the process must change to put clarity, flexibility, and children’s needs first.

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2 weeks ago
16 minutes 58 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
“Digital access is inclusion in action” with Philip Hedger

In this episode, Margaret Mulholland is joined by Philip Hedger, CEO of the LEO Academy Trust, to explore how schools can take ownership of inclusion rather than wait for policy change from above. Philip shares how investing in digital access for every pupil has boosted confidence and independence, particularly for learners with SEND and those acquiring English as an additional language.

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2 weeks ago
12 minutes 51 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Redesigning assessment for equity" with Melissa Farnham

In this episode, Margaret Mulholland talks to Melissa Farnham, CEO of ASDAN, to discuss how curriculum and assessment can be redesigned to create a more equitable education system. They examine how current systems can unintentionally limit young people’s potential, and rethinking these methods helps every learner belong.


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2 weeks ago
19 minutes 37 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Inclusion starts with knowing your classrooms" with Marc Rowland

In this episode Geoff Barton is joined by Marc Rowland, an experienced education adviser who has visited more than 1,000 schools to understand what makes inclusion work in practice. They discuss how strong leadership, a culture of care, and a deep understanding of what happens in classrooms every day are key to helping all pupils thrive — especially those at risk of underachievement.


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2 weeks ago
16 minutes 56 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
“How we got learning disabilities so wrong” with Stephen Unwin

In this episode Geoff Barton talks to Stephen Unwin, Theatre Director and author of Beautiful Lives: How We Got Learning Disabilities So Wrong. They dissect the historical stigmatisation of people with disabilities, and question how society measures worth.

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3 weeks ago
29 minutes

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
“Inclusion is a process, not a destination” with Amelie Thompson

In this episode, Geoff Barton talks to Amelie Thompson, Assistant Director of Education at Greenshaw Learning Trust, to explore what inclusion looks like in practice.


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3 weeks ago
24 minutes 10 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"1 in 5 children have a learning need" with Vik Verma

In this episode, Margaret Mulholland sits down with Vik Verma, Director of Education and Skills at Bristol City Council, to explore how local authorities can strengthen inclusion through collaboration. They discuss Bristol’s approach to building trust between schools, parents, and the council, supporting SENCOs, and creating systemic solutions across education, health, and social care.


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3 weeks ago
13 minutes 24 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Inclusion is more than place" with Claire Dorer

In this episode, Geoff Barton talks to Claire Dorer, CEO of the National Association of Special Schools. Claire reflects on the vital but often overlooked role special schools play, the pressures driving increasing demand, and the systemic issues that leave too many families waiting for places.

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4 weeks ago
20 minutes 33 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Individualise early, the first weeks matter" with Simon Cook

In this episode, Geoff Barton talks to Simon Cook, principal and CEO of Mid-Kent College, making the case that further education colleges are a crucial and underappreciated part of the inclusive education pathway. As students arrive having struggled in the statutory school system, colleges offer individualised pastoral and academic programmes.



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1 month ago
14 minutes 56 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"SEND children’s rights are being quietly eroded" with Chamika Hand

In this episode, Geoff Barton speaks with Chamika Hand - a lawyer, parent, and SEND campaigner - about her fight against reduced school hours for children in specialist settings.

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1 month ago
17 minutes 33 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Every teacher is a language teacher" with Jane Harris

In this episode, Geoff Barton talks with Jane Harris, chief executive officer of Speech and Language UK. They explore how language development sits at the heart of learning, behaviour, and mental health. Drawing on her professional expertise and personal experience as a parent, Harris highlights the urgent need for early identification and intervention, explaining how 1 in 5 children struggle with speech and language, often due to socioeconomic disadvantage, neurodivergence, or developmental language disorder.

Read Speech and Language UK's Alternative White Paper: here

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1 month ago
31 minutes 16 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"This is about opportunities, not deficits" with Jolanta Lasota

In this episode, Geoff Barton speaks with Jolanta Lasota, Chief Executive of Ambitious about Autism, about what true inclusion for autistic children and young people really means. Jolanta shares her lived experience as a parent and leader, explaining why awareness of autism has grown but understanding and support have not kept pace. She highlights the urgent need for acceptance, early support, and better planning.

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1 month ago
19 minutes 59 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"It’s not the parents who are broken, it’s the system" with Tania Tirraoro & Sharon Smith

In this episode, Geoff Barton speaks with Tania Tirraoro and Sharon Smith of Special Needs Jungle about the lived realities behind SEND policy. They share powerful personal stories of advocating for their children, the systemic barriers families face, and why EHCPs aren’t the problem—underfunding, poor training, and lack of accountability are.

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1 month ago
29 minutes 48 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
"Support before the diagnosis" with Dr Susana Castro Kemp

In this episode, Margaret Mulholland is joined by Dr. Susana Castro Kemp, Associate Professor of Psychology at UCL and Director of UCL's Centre for Inclusive Education. Drawing on international research to explore how early intervention, family partnerships, and cross-sector collaboration can transform SEND provision from Finland’s universal early-childhood screening to rethinking workforce training and professional development.

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1 month ago
17 minutes 10 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
“We’re in education to serve children” with Georgina Ellis

In this episode, Geoff Barton talks with Georgina Ellis, executive director of SEND at the Unity Schools Partnership - a family of 40 schools across Suffolk, Essex, and Norfolk. Sharing how Unity is integrating mainstream and specialist provision through SEND units, specialist schools, and shared best practice across the trust.

Georgina emphasises one simple principle: inclusion works best when schools, families, and local authorities work together to put children first.

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1 month ago
11 minutes 25 seconds

Talking Inclusion… With Geoff Barton
A podcast from the IPPR Inclusion Taskforce What does truly inclusive education look like, and how can we make it better? Hosted by Geoff Barton, former general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders (ASCL) and chair of the IPPR Inclusion Taskforce, this series features conversations with parents, teachers, young people, and experts from across the UK. With support from Margaret Mulholland, SEN and Inclusion Policy Specialist at ASCL, the podcast asks what’s working, what’s not, and where change should begin. Talking Inclusion blends lived experience with policy insight