This episode, Megan and Jennifer share an honest look at what business development really means and why it should start with people, not pressure.
Together, they unpack the realities of growing a book of business, navigating networking as introverts and extroverts, and rethinking the idea that there’s only one way to build relationships that lead to work. From big-law lessons to independent coaching insights, they share the approaches that actually work, and why “business development” is really just relationship development.
In this conversation, they cover:
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In this episode, Megan & Jennifer are joined by Emily Logan Stedman, litigation partner at Husch Blackwell, mental health advocate, and host of The Grace Period podcast. Emily opens up about her path through big law, her personal mental health journey, and what it means to practice law without losing your sense of self.
Through honest reflection and hard-fought wisdom, Emily shares how she went from quietly burning out as a mid-level associate to finding purpose in well-being, mentorship, and authenticity. They discuss how high-achievers often struggle in silence, how our identities get tangled up in titles, and what it looks like to pursue success on your own terms, not the ones handed to you.
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Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human.
Want to go deeper? Curious about 1:1 coaching with Megan or Jen? Or want the inside scoop on stage? Hit us up below, we’d love to chat!
In this episode, Megan & Jennifer are joined by Elaine Lin Hering, facilitator, speaker, former Harvard Law professor, and author of the best-selling book, Unlearning Silence: How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash Talent, and Live More Fully. Through her global work on negotiation, leadership, and communication, Elaine has helped thousands of people speak up, find their voice, and challenge the systems that silence them.
Elaine shares the personal and professional experiences that led her to write Unlearning Silence, including why the question isn’t always how to speak up, but why we’ve stayed silent in the first place. Together, they explore how cultural conditioning, workplace dynamics, and fear of judgment shape our ability to use our voice, and how we can unlearn what no longer serves us.
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Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human.
Want to go deeper? Curious about 1:1 coaching with Megan or Jen? Or want the inside scoop on stage? Hit us up below, we’d love to chat!
In this episode, Megan & Jennifer are joined by Ian Carleton Schaefer, Partner at Sheppard Mullin, legal advisor to Fortune 100 companies and global institutions, and conductor of the Second Ending Ensemble. Ian’s story is anything but linear, and that’s exactly what makes it inspiring.
Ian shares the powerful story behind his “second ending,” a musical term turned life philosophy that helped him reconnect with a lifelong passion for music while navigating a high-powered legal career. He talks about studying conducting at Juilliard during the pandemic, how music and law are related to each other, and why every professional deserves permission to pursue the thing that lights them up.
This episode closes with a special performance excerpt from A Solar Symphony, a commissioned piece by Welsh composer Katie Jenkins, played by Ian’s Second Ending Ensemble at Jazz at Lincoln Center.
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In this episode, Megan & Jennifer sit down with William Washington III, Global CFO of Baker McKenzie, who oversees more than $3 billion in revenue across 75+ offices worldwide. William’s path to the C-suite was anything but traditional. He shares his story and the twists and turns that lead him to ultimately overseeing thousands of professionals at one of the world’s largest law firms.
William shares how resilience, setting boundaries, and staying authentic shaped his leadership. He explains why wellbeing practices like walking meetings, fitness, and meditation are game changers, and why focusing on people (not just the work) transformed his career. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone curious about leadership, career growth, and what it really takes to become a law firm CFO.
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This bonus episode is a special reading by Stephanie Harrison.
Listen to the full interview with Stephanie here:
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chasing-titles-missing-joy-redefining-success-with-new/id1785694022?i=1000723844608
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5VECTWHB5sZRdvuAdXJUdO?si=3138b975b8164bf6
In this episode, Megan & Jennifer are joined by Stephanie Harrison, bestselling author, podcast host, and founder of The New Happy, a movement grounded in the art and science of well-being. Stephanie holds a master’s in positive psychology from the University of Pennsylvania, formerly led learning at Thrive Global, and her work now reaches millions through her podcast, newsletter, and widely shared visual art.
In this honest, moving, and deeply affirming conversation, Stephanie shares her journey from burnout to breakthrough, and why everything changed when she stopped chasing external validation and started redefining happiness on her own terms. She unpacks the difference between “Old Happy” (think perfectionism, productivity, and proving yourself) and “New Happy” (being who you are and using that to help others).
This conversation explores how to unwind harmful cultural narratives, why helping others is the heart of true happiness, and how Stephanie's viral visuals started with just a few basic shapes and a whole lot of meaning.
Stay tuned until the end for a special treat from Stephanie.
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In this episode, Megan & Jennifer welcome Heather Stevenson, General Counsel at Red Cell Partners, whose career path proves that bold moves can pay off. From starting as a litigator at Sullivan & Cromwell to owning and running a Boston juice bar, then returning to law to lead at the Boston Globe, and now at a tech incubation firm, Heather’s journey is anything but linear. She shares how entrepreneurial lessons, marathon training, and curiosity have shaped her leadership style, why personal connections matter more than perfect client alerts, and the boundaries that help her thrive as GC. This is a conversation about resilience, reinvention, and redefining what a legal career can look like.
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In this episode, Megan & Jennifer are joined by the incomparable Roy Sexton, Chief Marketing Officer at Vedder Price, former International President of the Legal Marketing Association, and one of INvolve’s Top 100 OUTstanding LGBTQ+ Executives.
In this warm, funny, and deeply insightful conversation, Roy opens up about how he’s learned to lead without losing himself, including why he no longer ties his self-worth to professional validation, what helped him climb out of burnout, and how he approaches every CMO role with humility and curiosity. He shares the unexpected path that led him into legal marketing (spoiler: it involves penny loafers, a theater degree, and a rocking chair), his take on building true connection through content, and the power of karaoke.
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In this episode, Megan & Jennifer sit down with Khurram Naik, founder of Freshwater Counsel, to discuss the journey of moving from big law to starting a legal recruiting agency and the importance of authenticity in your career. Khurram, a former patent litigator at Goodwin and Polsinelli, shares how his deep connections and relationship-building approach have fueled his success in the legal world.
He opens up about the challenges of showing up authentically in a firm environment, how social media and LinkedIn became key to his personal brand, and the value of taking risks to build a unique narrative. Khurram also dives into how his family life and values guide his work-life balance and the importance of prioritizing well-being while managing a growing business.
This conversation touches on everything from navigating career transitions and burnout to managing the emotional aspects of legal recruiting. Whether you’re considering a career pivot, seeking to refine your personal brand, or just trying to balance it all, Khurram’s insights are bound to resonate.
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Learn more about Freshwater Counsel
Connect with your hosts, Megan Senese & Jennifer Ramsey
In this episode, Megan & Jen are joined by David Cross, law firm partner at Goodwin, to talk about the intersection of leadership, disability, and finding purpose in your career. With over 20 years of experience in high-stakes antitrust and civil rights cases, David shares how he transformed his perception of success and found the courage to embrace vulnerability.
David talks about the evolution of leadership, from hierarchical structures to fostering inclusive, flat teams that invest in each individual’s growth. He dives into the emotional journey of navigating his disability, learning to lead with kindness, and using his platform to advocate for others. Through his story, David offers valuable insights on creating a supportive environment in both the legal field and beyond.
This conversation explores personal and professional growth, the importance of mentorship, and why leadership is about more than just titles—it’s about the impact you make on others. Whether you're a seasoned leader, someone navigating burnout, or simply looking for a fresh perspective on success, David's story will resonate.
Links & Resources:
Explore David's insights in the Bloomberg article, Disabled but Equal
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In this episode, Megan & Jen are joined by Aubria Ralph, award-winning lawyer, strategist, author, and founder of scrappy girl project, to talk about trauma-informed leadership, career pivots, and what it really means to stay human in high-stakes environments. With over 20 years of experience in finance law and leadership consulting, Aubria blends legal acumen with heart-first strategy to help individuals and organizations transform from the inside out.
She shares insights on managing personal and community trauma, what it takes to lead without a formal title, and why rejection isn’t always redirection. It can sometimes feel like robbery. Aubria also talks about the launch of scrappy girl project, her transition from law firm life, and how prayer, resilience, and self-awareness have shaped her journey.
This conversation dives deep into spirituality, self-leadership, and the unspoken emotional labor of being a “strong one.” Whether you're burnt out, building something new, or just looking for language for what you’ve been feeling, Aubria’s perspective will stick with you.
Links & Resources:
Learn more about scrappy girl project
Buy Aubria Ralph’s children’s book Adventures of Boo and Chin
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In this episode, Megan and Jen are joined by Dan Barr, Chief Deputy Attorney General for the State of Arizona, to talk about public service, purpose-driven legal careers, and building trust in government institutions. Dan shares lessons from nearly four decades in private practice, representing clients like Apple and CBS, before stepping into public service to help uphold the rule of law. He opens up about the motivations behind his transition, how he mentors the next generation of lawyers, and why curiosity, good judgment, and understanding your client’s goals matter more than billable hours. The conversation also touches on the state of pro bono work, the importance of showing up with common sense in a polarized world, and how even small, everyday actions can help defend democracy and strengthen the legal profession.
Dan Barr is a longtime advocate for access to justice and a respected voice in Arizona’s legal community. Before joining the AG’s office, he spent over 37 years at Perkins Coie, where he led the pro bono program and represented the First Amendment Coalition of Arizona. Today, he continues to serve with purpose, collaborating across party lines and mentoring attorneys who are driven by more than just career success. Whether in the courtroom or online, Dan brings clarity, humility, and humor to some of the most complex challenges facing the legal field today.
Links & Resources:
Connect with Dan Barr on LinkedIn
Learn more about the Arizona Attorney General’s Office
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In this episode, Megan & Jen are joined by Jonah Perlin, associate professor of law at Georgetown University, to chat about legal education, career development, and navigating the evolving legal industry. Jonah shares insights from his extensive experience teaching and mentoring students, as well as his reflections on the changing landscape of law firms and law schools. With a career that spans both private practice and academia, Jonah discusses the challenges and opportunities faced by Gen Z in law, the impact of the pandemic on legal education, and why career paths don’t always follow a straight line. He also shares his thoughts on teaching professional identity, diversity, and the importance of self-reflection in law and life.
Jonah Perlin is a senior fellow at the Center for Ethics and the Legal Profession at the Georgetown University Law Center. He is also the host of How I Lawyer, a top 30 careers podcast for junior lawyers, where he shares stories about what it means to practice law and how to build a successful legal career. Jonah’s work spans legal practice, education, and ethics, and he is passionate about preparing the next generation of lawyers for success in a rapidly changing profession.
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Learn more about Coston Consulting
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This episode, Megan & Jen are joined by Michael Coston, to chat about entrepreneurship, leadership, and building cultures that actually help people thrive.
Michael Coston is the founder and CEO of Coston Consulting, a firm made up of powerhouse consultants: former CMOs, DEIB leaders, and BD experts, who help organizations drive growth through people-first strategy. He’s been named to Lawdragon’s 100 Leading Legal Consultants and Strategists, honored by the National Diversity Council as one of the 100 Most Influential African American Leaders in Business, and awarded the Black Leadership Award by Profiles in Diversity Journal.
Before launching Coston Consulting, Michael served as CMO at McKool Smith for nearly a decade and led BD and marketing initiatives at multiple Am Law 100 firms. He also headed up PR for the global beauty brand Tweezerman. He holds a master’s degree in Interpersonal and Intercultural Communication and dual bachelor’s degrees in English and Black Studies from the University at Albany. He’s also certified in Fostering Inclusion and Diversity from the Yale School of Management.
Michael is a firm believer in passion as a superpower, and he’s on a mission to help leaders and organizations unlock high performance by making space for people to thrive.
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Learn more about Coston Consulting
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This episode, Megan & Jennifer are joined by Ben Chiriboga about staying true to yourself, approaching everything with intentionality, and putting it all on the table.
Ben Chiriboga is the Chief Growth Officer at Nexl. He is a former practicing lawyer turned legal technology executive at Nexl, an all-in-one legal technology platform built to help lawyers, marketers, and business development professionals work together to grow their law firm. Alongside his work at Nexl, Ben speaks, writes, podcasts, and creates content about how technology is evolving the business of law. Ben has had the privilege of speaking to audiences at LexLatin Summit, LegalGeek, Legal Marketing Association, Marketing Partners Forum, as well as various attorney bar associations around the world.
Ben is on a mission to help lawyers love the business of law… just like he’s learned to.
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