From OKRs to OHLs – A New Approach with Radhika Dutt
Welcome to the Product Masterclass Podcast! In this episode, Sebastian Borggrewe sits down with Radhika Dutt, author of Radical Product Thinking, to challenge traditional goal-setting frameworks like OKRs and introduce a new approach: OHLs (Objectives, Hypotheses, Learnings). They explore how metrics can be corrupted by targets, the pitfalls of sandbagging, and why rigid OKRs often constrain teams to outdated goals.
Radhika shares insights from her research and experience, advocating for a shift towards experimentation, collaborative problem-solving, and understanding the story behind the numbers. This conversation will help product managers rethink how they set goals and measure success.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
🚩 Why traditional OKRs can lead to corrupted metrics
📊 The difference between metrics vs. targets and why it matters
🔄 How OHLs promote experimentation and problem-solving
🛠️ Why leaders should define problem statements, not just set targets
🎯 How qualitative insights are just as important as numbers
💡 How to implement OHLs at a grassroots level within your organization
Chapters
00:02- Introduction & How Radhika and Sebastian Met
02:26 - Radhika’s New Book: The Problem with OKRs
06:59 - Why OKRs Fail: Sandbagging, Psychology & The Spotify Model
11:21 - Metrics vs. Goals: Why Goal-Setting Can Backfire
18:37 - The Power of Storytelling & Experimentation Over Targets
23:23 - Introducing OHLs: A Better Approach to Metrics
28:08 - How to Manage Expectations Without OKRs
38:20 - Implementing OHLs: Where to Start
45:08 - Moving Beyond OKRs: A New Way of Thinking
47:37 - Just Product Conference & Radhika’s Workshop
50:33 - Q&A: Strategy, Measurement & Adoption of OHLs
56:30 - Closing & How to Get Involved
Links & Resources
Radical Product Thinking by Radhika Dutt
Product Masterclass – Take Your Product Skills to the Next Level
Connect With Us
Sebastian Borggrewe on LinkedIn
Radhika Dutt on LinkedIn
Follow Product Masterclass on LinkedIn
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Welcome to the Product Masterclass Podcast! In this episode,Thomas Hartmann sits down with Melissa Appel, co-author ofAligned with Bruce McCarthy, to discuss one of the most critical challenges in product management: stakeholder alignment.
Melissa shares practical strategies for building trust, managing relationships, and fostering alignment to deliver valuable product outcomes. She dives into the essential skills product managers need—such asinfluence, persuasion, negotiation, and collaboration—to navigate complex stakeholder environments, especially when none of the teams report directly to them.
Whether you're a seasoned product leader or just starting out, this episode offers actionable insights to help you manage stakeholders and drive successful products.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
Links & Resources
Aligned by Melissa Appel and Bruce McCarthy
Product Masterclass – Take Your Product Skills to the Next Level
Connect with Us
Thomas Hartmann on LinkedIn
Melissa Appel on LinkedIn
Follow Product Masterclass on LinkedIn
🎧Enjoyed this episode? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review! Got feedback or suggestions for future topics? Reach out—we’d love to hear from you!
Welcome to the Product Masterclass Podcast! In this episode, Sebastian Borggrewe sits down with David Pereira to discuss his book, Untrapping Product Teams. David shares practical insights on how product teams can break free from outdated routines, improve prioritization, and shift from output-driven to outcome-driven practices.
We explore the importance of vision, strategy, and mentorship in product management, how to balance accountability within teams, and why frameworks should support—not control—your workflow. David also shares his unique experience writing the book while traveling, offering tips on staying consistent and focused.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
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In this episode, Thomas Hartmann sits down with Marty Cagan to discuss his latest book, TRANSFORMED, and what it takes for companies to successfully shift to a Product Operating Model. Marty shares his insights on leading organizational change, the critical role of leadership, and how product teams can drive meaningful transformation from within.
We cover everything from CPO strategies to the impact of AI on product teams, plus the key differences between European and American companies navigating this journey.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
🎯 What Marty aims to achieve with TRANSFORMED
📚 An overview of the book's key concepts
🤝 Bridging the gap between Tech and the rest of the company
🔑 Solutions and advice for CPOs
🏗️ How to initiate and sustain company-wide change
🛠️ Marty’s approach to driving transformation
🔄 Navigating Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up change
👥 The critical role of the CEO in product transformation
🚀 How PMs and POs can drive change from within
❤️ Winning hearts and minds to build trust and momentum
🤖 The role of AI in modern product transformations
🌍 Differences between European and American companies in product evolution
🔄 Final thoughts and key takeaways from Marty
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Got questions or suggestions for future topics? Reach out to us—we’d love to hear from you!
