In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Ayyappan Rajagopal, founder and CEO of the quick-commerce platform Firstclub. A veteran of India’s e-commerce sector with leadership roles at Flipkart, Myntra, and Cleartrip, Ayyappan shares his vision for a differentiated experience in the crowded quick-commerce market. While existing platforms are highly transactional and compete on speed and discounts, Firstclub aims to be a curated, discovery-led platform offering high-quality products.
For brands, Firstclub positions itself not just as a retailer, but as an extended distributor and brand-building partner. It works closely with brands, associating only with those whose stature and target consumers align with its curated vision.
For consumers, Firstclub is drawing inspiration from the Costco model by planning a membership-based system to build a loyal customer base and offer superior products at better value.
Delve into this conversation to understand how Firstclub is carving out its unique space in the quick-commerce landscape.
*****
Additional reading
1,500 stories about India’s complex relationships with Swiggy Instamart, Blinkit, Zepto, and Bigbasket
Are we seeing the unbundling of quick commerce?
🎧 The Ken's premium podcasts are now available on Spotify! Subscribers can now listen to all episodes of Two by Two, First Principles, Zero Shot, 90,000 Hours and Make India Competitive Again on the streaming platform
In this episode, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar sit down with Munaf Kapadia (VP of growth and marketing, Natfirst), and Arjun Anjaria (founder, Unbox Health) to discuss the challenge posed by misleading food labels in India and the resulting deterioration in consumer trust.
Unbox Health uses independent lab testing to verify product claims, creating an objective D to A+ rating scale based on label accuracy, toxicity, and nutritional profile. While Natfirst, and its consumer app Truthin, interpret the data already on product labels—analysing ingredients, additives, and processing levels—to provide a simple 1 to 5 star rating with the goal of empowering “conscious consumers” who want to know what’s in their food.
Arjun and Munaf, with several years of combined expertise in this domain, help us understand the rocky terrain of consumer labeling in India by breaking down the current regulatory landscape, the ineffectiveness of existing penalties for mislabeling, and much more.
This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.
If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com. We’d love to hear from you.
How does the India head of a global, category-creating giant view its future in arguably its most complex market?
In this candid episode of Two by Two, we sit down with Prabhjeet Singh, the president of Uber India and South Asia, to deconstruct the company’s biggest strategic challenges and ambitions in the country.
Prabhjeet breaks down Uber’s “barbell strategy”—a delicate balance of serving both premium customers with services like Uber Black and cost-conscious users with affordable options. We dive deep into the evolving competitive landscape, moving beyond the traditional Uber vs. Ola duopoly to discuss the disruption from players like Rapido and Namma Yatri, who are challenging the commission-based business model. Prabhjeet addresses how Uber navigates this complex environment, including the tricky regulatory and taxation issues that create a non-level playing field.
The conversation expands to Uber’s grander vision as a multi-modal platform, not just a ride-hailing app. Prabhjeet reveals a surprising insight: Uber’s courier service is now one of its fastest-growing verticals in India, born from a “hack” during the pandemic. We also explore innovative new revenue streams, from the recently launched Uber Teens for secure rides to a fascinating new feature allowing driver-partners to earn extra income by completing AI-based micro-tasks during their downtime.
Finally, we touch upon the long-term future, discussing the viability of self-driving cars on Indian roads and the constant push-and-pull of regulatory innovation. This is a rare, unfiltered look into the operational and strategic engine of Uber India as it navigates growth, competition, and its own evolution.
This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.
If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.
While India produces millions of graduates every year, the stark reality is that many remain underemployed, and some are increasingly turning unemployable. Contrary to popular belief, this is not merely a problem facing social science or non-STEM students. Data from the past decade shows that 40% to 50% of engineering graduates from Indian universities have not been placed in jobs, underlining the worrying gap between academic education and industry requirements. This is just one of the challenges India’s youth face in transitioning from a fairly uniform school system to career-oriented education.
Aggravating this issue is the critical gap in career awareness among Indian students. While the modern economy offers over 20,000 career paths, 93% of students are familiar with only seven traditional roles, including doctor, engineer, lawyer, or teacher.
This mismatch between what traditional degrees offer and modern job-market demands is the focus of this animated episode of Two by Two, where co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by two experts in the field of education—Maheshwer Peri, founder and CEO of Careers360, and Abhishek Ghosh, clinical researcher and career counsellor at No Herd Mentality.
This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.
If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.
*****
Additional reading:
India’s demographic dividend as a time bomb
Abhishek Ghosh’s blog: No Herd Mentality
Whatsapp is the fastest and the best way to reach hundreds of millions of Indians, which makes it a dream distribution channel for everybody. But its owner Meta maintains an iron grip on its APIs, pricing, and policies, making it a risky place to build. This is Whatsapp’s double life.
This deadlock is why Whatsapp is universally used but not universally loved by India’s users. It’s why startups have an opportunity in front of them, but one shrouded in doubt.
In this episode, we have two wonderful founders who are building companies on top of Whatsapp and have their own reasons to try to break this deadlock. Swapnika Nag is co-founder and CEO of Periskope, an AI platform supercharging sales and operations on Whatsapp, and Dharmesh Ba is founder of October Chat, which builds AI agents for Whatsapp. With co-hosts, Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, they unravel the risks and rewards of building on one of the world’s most popular messaging apps.
This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.
If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.
Additional reading
Dharmesh Ba’s substack: https://newsletter.theindianotes.com/
If you are a student who wants to participate in The Ken's case build competition, or if you simply want to read the case, you can do that here:
Launched in 2016, UPI now dominates retail digital payments in India, accounting for over 80% of the volume and processing a massive 300 million transactions every month. What began as a government-funded project is now a public utility.
Unlike private companies like Visa or Mastercard, government-funded entities like the Internet or the World Wide Web are not typically judged in terms of profitability. Their vast economic and innovative benefits far outweigh their costs. Viewing UPI through a profit-making lens is simply the wrong approach.
In this episode of Two by Two, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by two vocal experts—Alok Prasanna, co-founder of Vidhi Legal, and Ateesh Tankha, CEO and co-founder of Alsowise Content Solutions—to dissect the sustainability and future of UPI in India.
This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.
If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.
*****
Additional reading
Alok’s Linkedin post
UPI can be forever or free—not both
UPI wants to go international, but it isn't built for it (yet)
The mystery of usury
If you are a student who wants to participate in The Ken's case build competition, or if you simply want to read the case, you can do that here:
Join Rohin and Praveen as they celebrate the one-year anniversary of the 2x2 podcast, reflecting on 52 episodes of business and strategy discussions. This special ‘vibes’ episode looks back at their journey creating Two by Two, the evolution of the show, and future plans, deviating from their usual topic-focused format.
Praveen shares key meta-narratives he picked from the past year, including a "desperation-driven convergence" where companies like Flipkart and Phonepe try to become each other. He also highlights themes such as the government shaping markets as a "competitor" or through "artificial constraints", and a "great career existential crisis" impacting roles from engineers to marketers. Other themes include the "destruction and retreat of big tech in India", the podcast's contrarian framing of topics, and a focus on India's "livability crisis", addressing issues like urban infrastructure and air pollution.
We’d love to hear what you think about Two by Two as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.
Welcome to the year-end special edition of Two by Two.
We’ve released 22 episodes of Two by Two since our inaugural edition in July.
We’ve covered an incredible breadth of counterintuitive topics framed as, well, two by twos.
Would Flipkart become Phonepe before Phonepe became Flipkart? Did Delhi prick Bengaluru’s bubble? Is the golden era of the software engineer over? Why is health insurance broken? How will Ola and Uber avoid ‘death by a thousand cuts’? Why is Zepto behaving like a gold medallist? Can venture capitalists do no wrong? Dmart versus the challengers at the gates. AI and the impending disruption of Indian SaaS.
We’ve had incredible fun exploring these ideas with a bunch of really sharp, experienced and opinionated guests.
Finding guests who don’t hesitate to speak their minds and state unpopular truths has been one of the hardest things. Far, far tougher than finding interesting topics. We owe all our guests a huge thanks for trusting us. Far too many professionals and leaders prefer to stick to rehearsed and predictable talking points in public these days.
We’d started Two by Two with the ambition to operate at the intersection of curiosity and synthesis. Each week, we said we’d spot the hidden connections and unasked questions. We’d identify the cast of players and their motivations.
We’d bring in incredible people to discuss these with. We’d try to answer simple yet fundamental questions like, what is going on, why is it happening, who gains and who loses, and where is all of this leading to?
By always asking questions. Always connecting the dots. Always being unfiltered and uninhibited.
We wanted Two by Two to be ‘your personal investigative brain’.
In 2025 we hope to make Two by Two even more interesting and unpredictable. Yes, at its core it will still be a weekly podcast. But I’m excited at the possibility of doing so much more by involving our subscribers, listeners and readers in these endeavours.
We want to make Two by Two ‘our collective investigative brain’.
And hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan will continue to do so with a new episode every Thursday.
To listen to all episodes of Two by Two, consider subscribing to The Ken’s Premium plan, which in addition to the podcast, will also get you access to our long-form stories, Premium newsletters and visual stories.
If you just want access to Two by Two, you can do that as well on Apple Podcasts with a paid subscription.
Two by Two is also a free weekly newsletter published every Friday. You can sign up for it here.
Listen to all Two by Two episodes here:
1. Will Flipkart become Phonepe before Phonepe becomes Flipkart? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/will-flipkart-become-phonepe-before-phonepe-becomes-flipkart/
2. Why has all the excitement and disruption gone out of startups? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/why-has-all-the-excitement-and-disruption-gone-out-of-startups/
3. Is Zepto a gold medallist or a bronze medallist? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/is-zepto-a-gold-medalist-or-a-bronze-medalist/
4. Delhi pricked the Bengaluru bubble -
https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/delhi-pricked-the-bangalore-bubble/
5. Swiggy needs to reclaim its past glory - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/swiggy-needs-to-reclaim-its-past-glory/
6. Is the golden era of the (software) engineer over? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/is-the-golden-era-of-the-software-engineer-over/
7. Google Pay: Big. Successful. Vulnerable - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/google-pay-big-successful-vulnerable/
8. Private coaching is eating away at schooling - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/private-coaching-is-eating-away-at-schooling/
9. Why Stripe could not become the Stripe of India? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/why-couldnt-stripe-become-the-stripe-of-india/
10. Health insurance in India is ripe for disruption - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/health-insurance-is-ripe-for-disruption/
11. Netflix and its last growth market - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/netflixs-last-growth-market/
12. Ather Energy was a pioneer. Can it also be a leader? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/ather-energy-was-a-pioneer-can-it-also-be-a-leader/
13. Do we even need Product Managers? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/do-we-even-need-product-managers/
14. How will Ola and Uber avoid ‘death by a thousand cuts’? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/how-will-ola-and-uber-avoid-death-by-a-thousand-cuts/
15. The relentless rise of the government as a competitor - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/the-relentless-rise-of-the-government-as-a-competitor/
16. What does the future hold for Ola Electric? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/what-does-ola-electrics-future-hold/
17. Can venture capitalists do no wrong? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/can-venture-capitalists-do-no-wrong/
18. Dmart versus the challengers at the gate - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/dmart-versus-the-challengers-at-the-gate/
19. Marketing is eating itself from the inside - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/marketing-is-eating-i...
Happy Deepavali, dear listeners!
On account of Deepavali, the Two by Two team is also taking a small break. But don't worry; we'll be back with our regular programming next week.
Until then, you can always listen to past episodes of Two by Two that you haven't gotten around to yet. If you're a Premium subscriber listening to this on The Ken’s mobile app or on Apple podcasts, you can just scroll down and listen to any of our episodes in their full, unedited form. On the other hand, if you aren’t a premium subscriber yet, you can listen to one of our older episodes which we’ve unlocked for you.
In fact, in the latest unlocked episode, we argue, debate, and discuss what Netflix needs to do to win in its last growth market — India.
Netflix's last growth market. (Full republished episode for free users available on Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | Youtube)
By the way, if you’re in the mood for something other than two-by-twos and business models, why don’t you head over to Daybreak, The Ken’s daily podcast?
Just last week, our colleagues Snigdha and Rahel did an amazing episode where they spoke to multiple people to understand why women freeze their eggs.
Successful women are freezing their eggs. And that's on men. (Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | YouTube Music)
If you have suggestions for potential future episodes, we’re all ears. We’re also all ears if you have recommendations for interesting guests we can invite to the show—guests who know their stuff and aren’t afraid to speak their minds, even if it goes against conventional wisdom. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.
