Sinéad Kehoe is the founder of Wāhine Wai, a dippers' group in Wellington. In this episode we discuss eight swim books we've enjoyed, two swim songs, and two swim films:
What are your favourite swim books, films, and songs? Let us know by leaving a comment or email swimchatswithshona@gmail.com.
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After being diagnosed in 2015 with Ankylosing Spondylitis (AS), a painful inflammatory arthritic condition, Kylie Frost was advised to move her body to keep mobile. She began exercising multiple times a week, then decided she needed a goal. She started entering triathlons and set her sights on IRONMAN NZ (a 3.8km swim, 180km bike ride and 42km run), which she completed in 2021 after six years of building her strength and stamina. The time limit to complete the event was 17 hours and she managed it with 70 seconds to spare, with her support crew cheering her on.
Kylie has since qualified as a triathlon coach and founded the Twisted Sisters Club, which helps beginners to achieve their goals – whether it’s a short swim in the sea or entering their first triathlon. As the website puts it: "Our mission is to empower women through sports, assisting them in overcoming any barriers to reach their objectives ... We all progress at our individual pace, celebrating every victory, regardless of its size."
In this episode Kylie talks about her diagnosis at age 40, her initial search for a coach who was able to support a beginner with a chronic health condition (she found triathlete Tony O’Hagan, who sadly passed away in 2020), her experience of working towards and completing IRONMAN NZ, becoming a coach herself to support a range of abilities, and the founding of the Twisted Sisters Club and what it offers for women who want to take those first steps (or strokes) in the sea.
Twisted Sisters Club Facebook page
NZ Ocean Swim Community Facebook group
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Questions, thoughts or suggestions about the podcast? Email me at swimchatswithshona@gmail.com
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Susan Sherwin is one of the founders of IISA (International Ice Swimming Association) Aotearoa New Zealand and runs the annual NZ Ice Swimming Championships . An ice swim needs to be in water that's 5°C (41°F) or less, swum only in togs, goggles, a standard cap, and with optional earplugs.
Susan is an accomplished ice swimmer herself, having completed two 'extreme' ice miles (2km). She is also one of just a handful of people to have achieved NZ's Triple Crown: Lake Taupō in 2020, Raukawa Moana / Cook Strait in 2021, and Te Ara a Kiwa / Foveaux Strait in 2022 at the age of 61. She now has her eye on Australia's Triple Crown – within two weeks this year she completed the Rottnest Channel Swim (20km) in Western Australia and the Derwent River Big Swim (34km) in Tasmania.
In this episode Susan talks about how she returned to swimming in her 40s after having kids, gradually building from a few kilometres to ultramarathons. For her, it's about being in the water, enjoying people and nature, and saying yes to new opportunities.
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Questions, thoughts or suggestions about the podcast? Email me at swimchatswithshona@gmail.com
Follow Swim Chats on Instagram
Please support the podcast for free by following or subscribing, and leaving a rating and review. You can also become a Swim Buddy for $5 per month on Patreon for added perks. Find out more on Patreon.com/SwimChats
It’s a swim literature episode! Featuring John Hancock, who told us the colourful life story of Sir Bernard Freyberg and his wartime swim.
This time John and Shona talk about:
The “mad, bad and dangerous to know” poet Lord Byron’s 1810 swim across the Dardanelles (formerly the Hellespont, between Europe and Asia). Lord Byron was inspired by the ancient Greek myth of Leander, who swam across the same body of water to his lover Hero’s lantern-lit tower each night. Byron recounted his swim triumph in his poem ‘Don Juan’.
The Old English poem Beowulf, whose protagonist spent a week in the freezing Scandinavian ocean, first competing with his childhood friend Breca and then fighting off ‘sea monsters’.
Much more recently, British writer Roger Deakin’s series of swims across Britain, captured in his beautiful book Waterlog (1999). Deakin is considered by many to be the founding father of the modern ‘wild swimming’ movement.
John and Shona do some readings from the texts above (extra points to John for managing some Old English). John also talks about the book Haunts of the Black Masseur: the Swimmer as Hero by Charles Sprawson (1992).
We’re keen to know what you think of this episode! Leave a comment or email swimchatswithshona at gmail dot com.
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In the introduction Shona talks about Ben Knight, a Wellington ocean advocate and protector who sadly passed away this month. Over the years Ben worked with Mountains to Sea Wellington and Sustainable Coastlines, which posted a lovely tribute to Ben on Facebook with some conservation figures that demonstrate his incredible legacy. Thank you, Ben. You have inspired many of us.
Dr Heather Massey is an open water swimmer, a scientist, and a senior lecturer at the University of Portsmouth in the UK. As part of her job she researches the physiological effects of cold water, as well as the risks and potential benefits of cold water swimming.
What happens to our body when we get into cold water? What’s the 'cold shock response' and what is 'afterdrop'? Who benefits from cold water, how, and why? How do people survive ‘ice swimming’, including in Antarctica? But most importantly, how can people get into cold water and return home safely?
Heather’s advice includes:
Learn more about Heather’s research (and the Extreme Environments Laboratory) on the University of Portsmouth website
'Wild swimming scientist Heather Massey: "Hypothermia is not a pretty sight"'. Guardian article, June 2021
The Outdoor Swimming Society website
Water Safety NZ – 'Staying safe'
Photo of Heather by Terry Scott
Wellington Harbourmaster Grant Nalder oversees navigation in Te Whanganui-a-Tara. That involves monitoring the movement of vessels (ships, boats, waka, etc.), managing marker buoys, and also, increasingly, looking out for ocean swimmers.
On this episode we talk about:
- the role of the Harbourmaster
- the importance of swimmers being visible to boats (tow floats are mandatory for swimmers who are more than 200m offshore – see the bylaw details below), and also the need for boaties to be aware of swimmers
- the near miss one swimmer, who was new to the area, had with a ferry in 2024 when they inadvertently swam in the shipping channel
- the water features enjoyed by swimmers in Oriental Bay (pontoons, buoys, the Carter saltwater fountain, Pt Jerningham Lighthouse)
- the pink swim buoys being added to the Oriental Bay swim route – breaking news on the podcast!
My favourite tip: strap a whistle to your wrist. It's easier for boats to hear a whistle than if you shout, and you can raise the alarm too if you're in trouble.
For questions or thoughts on this episode, leave a comment or email swimchatswithshona@gmail.com
You can contact the Wellington Harbourmaster via:
harbours@gw.govt.nz
Greater Wellington 04 384 5708
Harbour radio (urgent) 04 473 4547
Keep up to date with local goings-on via the Wellington Ocean Swimmers Facebook group (public group)
Greater Wellington Navigation Bylaws (PDF) –'Swimmers more than 200 metres from shore must tow a bright-coloured safety float or swim buoy and brightly coloured swim cap (if worn), unless accompanied by a support craft.'
What a privilege to spend an hour talking to Phil Rush, a coaching and swimming legend. Here are just some of his open water swim achievements:
In this episode we talk about how endurance swimming has changed over the years, the importance of mental as well as physical training, monitoring swimmers for hypothermia, working as a team to help people achieve their swim goals, how he swam for more than 24 hours, that crucial final stage of a marathon swim, the buzz of getting swimmers to the other side, and much more.
Thoughts on this episode? Leave a comment or contact me at swimchatswithshona at gmail dot com.
Enjoyed it? Share it with a friend, leave a rating and review, and hit subscribe/follow so you don't miss an episode. Thanks for listening!
Kate Camp is a poet, author, and ocean swimmer. She's also the organiser of the annual '9 Bays of Matariki' winter swims and the '12 Bays of Christmas' summer swims.
In this episode Kate talks about when and how she started sea swimming, the art of quickly changing out of wet togs into warm clothes, and the importance of the swim community. She also reads a poem called 'Freyberg Carpark' – featuring Graham from episode 10! – from her new book, 'Makeshift Seasons' (Te Herenga Waka University Press, 2025).
Follow the Matariki swims (or come if you're in Wellington) via the Facebook event page
Buy a copy of Makeshift Seasons from Unity Books
Read Kate's article 'Why I won't write about swimming' on The Spinoff
Author photo by Ebony Lamb
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This month you can sponsor Shona for The Big Swim (Coastguard NZ fundraiser) : bigswim.org.nz/s-riddell
Send any thoughts, suggestions, praise, feedback etc. to swimchatswithshona at gmail dot com or leave a comment. Remember to follow or subscribe to the podcast (it's free) so you don't miss an episode. Thanks for listening!
Coastguard NZ rescues thousands of Kiwis a year and relies on the dedication of its volunteers, who require training and equipment to save lives on the water.
Wellington president of Coastguard NZ (and surf lifesaver) James Groombridge talks about The Big Swim, a month-long fundraiser involving swimmers of all ages and abilities. If you're not swimming, you can sponsor a swimmer!
Shona's Big Swim page is bigswim.org.nz/s-riddell. Please sponsor me if you can – all funds go to Coastguard NZ.
I'm part of The Tridents and together we're swimming 100km – visit our team page: bigswim.org.nz/the-tridents
Ann Skelly is a Waiheke Island artist who creates beautiful seascapes and landscapes that feature the ocean in all its varying moods: dappled and rippled in the sun, fierce and churning, blue and inviting.
Shona talked to Ann at the 2025 NZ Art Show, which runs annually in Wellington over King's Birthday weekend.
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In June Shona is taking part in Coastguard NZ's The Big Swim – follow and support The Tridents!
Dr Nicole Miller is a Wellington scuba diver who cares deeply about our underwater kelp forests and marine life. She's the Chair of the Friends of Taputeranga Marine Reserve Trust, the former President of Wellington Underwater Club, and the founder of Explore Your Coast, with the goal of filming 70km of Wellington Harbour, Te Whanganui-a-Tara, and documenting changes to our coastal ecosystems.
In this marine conservation episode we talk about giant kelp, octopuses, creative ways of showing people what's below the surface to raise awareness, protecting what we love, and Nicole's new documentary called Seaweed, a Love Story.
Watch the trailer for Seaweed, a Love Story and keep up to date with the latest news and events. Nicole is also looking for partners and sponsors to bring the film to different parts of NZ. To find out more, contact her at exploreyourcoast@gmail.com.
Visit Explore Your Coast for more about Nicole's project to film and document 70km of Wellington's coastline.
Visit Taputeranga Marine Reserve on Wellington's South Coast.
Watch a video about kina/sea urchin grazing in Wellington Harbour (2021 and 2022 comparisons), then learn about kelp forest recovery after kina removal and community action.
Graham Joe is the owner of Gelissimo @ Freyberg, an outdoor cafe/kiosk right next to Freyberg Beach in Wellington. It’s a hub for morning swimmers who congregate there for coffee, scones, porridge and toasties. The post-swim conversations I have there every week, over excellent coffee, were the inspiration for this podcast.
Graham started getting in the sea a few years ago after an accident left him in pain and unable to run. He found that getting in the cold water helped his recovery so he kept doing it, slowly building in confidence and distance. Now early swims are a staple of his day, all year round.
If you're in Wellington, you should definitely check out Gelissimo @ Freyberg!
Gelissimo website gelissimo.co.nz
Gelissimo on Instagram www.instagram.com/gelissimo_gelato/
Brett Richardson is a Wellington swimmer who swam across Cook Strait (Te Moana-o-Raukawa) in 2020 and Foveaux Strait (Te Ara a Kiwa) in 2024. He swims in the ocean year round, often early in the morning – which, in winter, means it’s pitch black in the water (aside from his head torch) from start to finish. In this episode Brett shares how his swimming grew from new-to-ocean-swimming to marathon level, the strategies he incorporates for successful long swims, and the joy of getting in the sea every week – no matter what the weather’s up to.
Health and safety note: Brett is a highly experienced ocean swimmer. If you’re new to sea swimming the best advice is to join a local group, start in the warmer months, check the conditions before you get in, and stick close to shore as you grow in confidence and ability.
Brett’s YouTube video of his Foveaux Strait swim
‘After 10 hours, Brett Richardson emerges from Cook Strait hypothermic and victorious’ (Stuff, November 27 2020)
NZ Sports page for Meda McKenzie, who swam Cook Strait at 15 years old in 1978.
Clarissa Dunn is a Radio New Zealand Concert presenter, a marriage celebrant, an event MC, a soprano, and an ocean swimmer. She swims to connect with her family and with nature, and it also provides a mental break from her busy life.
For her episode, Clarissa had the brilliant idea of making an 'ocean music' playlist on Spotify. I'm still embedded in the '90s hard rock era, so this has opened my mind and I can hear the breaking waves and darting fish in the various pieces of music – you can listen to it here: Clarissa's Ocean Playlist.
As a radio presenter and classical music aficionado, Clarissa has a beautiful way of describing the light and sounds of the sea.
Our first 'swim history' episode! Featuring special guest John Hancock, a marathon swimmer and the organiser of this year's ANZAC Day swim in Wellington. In this episode John tells the story of the brave, accomplished, and fascinating Sir Bernard Freyberg who painted himself in black and undertook a stealthy nighttime swim in Gallipoli during World War One. We also discuss a few other notable swimmers in history: John F Kennedy, Kahe Te-Rau-o-te-Rangi, and Mao Zedong . Finally, John Hancock reflects on his own 'big' swims, across Lake Taupō and Cook Strait / Raukawa Moana.
Lots of background links for this one – it is a history episode, after all!
Shona's family war tortoise (Great War Stories, NZHistory.govt. nz).
ANZAC biscuit recipe (Edmonds Cooking)
Bernard Freyberg's Wikipedia page
Image of Freyberg (taken in 1904 at Te Aro Baths in Wellington) is courtesy of Horowhenua Historical Society inc, Levin, New Zealand
'Debunking Freyberg's Mexican myth' – NZ International Review
'When Sir Bernard tried to swim the Channel' – Greymouth Evening Star, August 1950, via paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
Kahe Te-Rau-o-te-Rangi, who swam from Kāpiti Island to the mainland in 1824 (Eleanor Spragg. 'Te Rau-o-te-rangi, Kahe', Dictionary of New Zealand Biography, first published in 1990, updated July, 2013. Te Ara - the Encyclopedia of New Zealand)
'The swim that changed Chinese history' (Mao Zedong's river swims) The China Project, 14 July 2021.
'Caroline Kennedy recreates her father JFK's heroic wartime swim.' CNN, August 2023. (correction: JFK's crew were attacked by a Japanese boat, not a plane as I incorrectly stated in this episode)
John Hancock talks about his Cook Strait and Lake Taupō swims on the Effortless Swimming podcast
Melissa Donaldson is a marathon swimmer and SwimMastery coach from Brisbane, Australia. When Melissa was approaching 50 and working in the corporate world, she began to swim as a hobby. Within a few years she was swimming 20km-plus distances and trained as a swim coach to help others safely achieve their goals and find joy in swimming. She runs the SwimMastery Swim Studio in Brisbane and continues to explore her own relationship with the water, seeking new challenges and opportunities along the way.
SwimMastery: swimmastery.online
The SwimMastery Swim Studio in Brisbane
The Apolima Strait Swim in Sāmoa (22.3km)
The Great Keppel Island Swim in Australia (20km)
The 'Cliff to Bridge' Derwent River Swim in Tasmania (15km)
Adrienne Linney is an ocean swimmer, a jewellery maker, and the founder of the Better Beach Babes, a dipping group in Wellington that started three years ago and is now a thriving cold-water community. The BBBs appeared on the cover of the NZ Women's Weekly in August 2022. Adrienne's jewellery is inspired by the colours, textures, and movement of the ocean.
'Beach Babes' daring dips': www.nowtolove.co.nz/news/real-life/beach-babes-daring-dips-45905
Adrienne Linney Jewellery: www.adriennelinneyjewellery.co.nz
Kaye Mueller is an ocean swimmer and a yoga instructor. She’s the owner of YogiFish, a company that takes people on yoga and swim retreats in beautiful locations. She swims at Goat Island Marine Reserve and is a vibrant, warm and inspiring person – and, as she would probably say, a salty soul.
YogiFish website: yogifish.nz
Goat Island Marine Reserve: www.goatislandmarine.co.nz
Te Kohuroa rewilding project: www.tekohuroarewilding.org
Nick Cave's piece on wild swimming: theredhandfiles.com/what-makes-you-happy
Breanna Ward is a marathon swimmer and ocean advocate from Wellington, Aotearoa NZ. She is a Triple Crown swimmer which means she has achieved three extremely challenging water crossings: Raukawa Moana / Cook Strait, Lake Taupō, and Te Ara a Kiwa / Foveaux Strait. Bre swims to raise awareness for ocean conservation, fundraises for marine education, and has a soft spot for sharks. She also runs local Ocean Safety courses to enable us to be 'good' swimmers, in every sense of the word!
Here's Bre's blog post about swimming Te Ara a Kiwa: https://still-belowthesurface.blogspot.com/2025/02/full-circles-in-te-ara-kiwa.html
Here's the petition we mentioned to protect orange roughy: https://www.change.org/p/nz-government-stop-the-fishing-industry-destroying-ancient-coral-forests/
And the Ethel Cain song Bre had in her head for her long swim! https://open.spotify.com/track/0nsIevK1SeDfZzDOi6Si75?si=f07525f7e62b48df
Toy Saia'ana, a Kiwi of Samoan descent, first learned how to swim as an adult. For the past few years she has challenged herself to swim in many different environments (including in choppy seas, in the dark, through winter and without a wetsuit). She is constantly learning, exploring, and helping others.
We also talk about swimming through grief and giving ourselves permission to pull back in order to move forwards.
For more information about SwimMastery: www.swimmastery.online
