Liana Smith was thriving as a competitive swimmer when chronic back pain led to a diagnosis of a spinal fracture. She underwent a spinal fusion at the age of 17. At the time, it felt to Liana as if her swimming career was over – she was on full bedrest and had a long recovery, both physically and mentally. She spent the next seven years out of the water.
Liana was working as a high-country shepherd in Queenstown when she went for a swim with the Southern Lakes Swim Club (SLSC). Realising she could still swim well and enjoyed it – and was fast in the open water – Liana set her sights on NZ's Triple Crown, with the support of swim legend Philip Rush (who has his own Swim Chats episode).
Liana became the eighth person to complete the Triple Crown, is the Crown's fastest female swimmer, and also holds the world record for the fastest-ever Foveaux Strait swim (6h19m). Earlier this year she became the first person to swim without a wetsuit from Kinloch to Queenstown (46km) in the 'fresh' water of Lake Wakatipu. Amazingly, that epic distance wasn't the planned total (she was aiming for a Kingston finish but was thwarted by strong winds) so next summer Liana will tackle the 'full' 74km distance of Lake Wakatipu!
For Liana's ultramarathon swims she raises funds for I Am Hope, a charity that supports young people with their mental health.
The photo of Liane was taken by Wayne Martin.
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I watched JAWS as a kid and was subsequently scared to go in the water, just as the movie's tagline promised. Now I swim in the sea regularly and I know a bit more about sharks, but I wanted to talk to an expert.
Clinton Duffy grew up with a fascination of sharks after encountering a bronze whaler, and he has spent much of his life and career in the pursuit of knowledge about these sharp-toothed ocean predators (as well as other marine creatures, such as rays). He worked in marine science at DOC and is now a Curator of Marine Biology at Auckland Museum – and there's a very cool exhibition about sharks opening in December.
In this episode, we talk about:
The photo of Clinton holding a tagged school shark was taken by Brit Finucci, Earth Sciences NZ, in Dusky Sound this year. Clinton was assisting Dr Alice Rogers, Victoria University of Wellington, and Dr Finucci tagging broadnose sevengill sharks and school sharks.
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I had the pleasure of interviewing my swim coach Barbara (Barb) Watson, who has dedicated over 60 years to coaching in Wellington. It was recorded while we sat in her car at Freyberg Beach early on a Wednesday morning, watching the sunrise and drinking coffee.
In this episode you'll hear some of Barb's life story and much of it is an oral history of swimming in Wellington, from the early 1950s to today.
Barb was always drawn to the water and it ran in the family because her dad, Frank, was an open water swimming champion in the 1920s before he took on coaching and pool management. He worked at many Wellington pools including Karori Pool, Thordon Pool, Riddiford Baths in the Hutt, and Naenae Pool. He also swam in the open-air (and gender-segregated) Te Aro Baths before it was replaced by Freyberg Pool in 1963.
Barb was a strong freestyle and butterfly swimmer. She competed in national championships and won the prestigious Annette Kellerman Cup for open water swimming. She trained mainly at Naenae Pool, where her father was the manager, under the coach John Hamilton. She started coaching herself at the age of just 12 and has been coaching more or less ever since. As a solo mum in the 1970s she worked hard to make ends meet and today, as a great-grandmother, she still has a houseful of young people.
Barb's coaching philosophy is about enjoyment, accessibility, and community – she teaches us, and also values what we give to her. She has dedicated decades to teaching and mentoring swimmers of all ages and levels, from newcomers scared of the water to ultramarathoners. She coaches at Kilbirnie (WRAC), Cannons Creek, and Te Ngaengae pools, and at Freyberg Beach on Wednesday and Sunday mornings where she gives us a pep talk, looks after our valuables, and provides jet plane lollies after we get out.
Barb has been recognised for her services to the community but she doesn't like a fuss, so this is a rare interview. Our full conversation lasted for three hours and included people coming and going to have a swim and collect their gear, so this is the abridged version of 1h15. Grab a cuppa and enjoy.
Thanks Barb, for all that you do for us! <3
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Image: Barb handing out jet planes to swimmers at Freyberg Beach. Artwork by Fifi Colston to commemorate Barb's 75th birthday in 2023.
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Dan Feisst is a big part of NZ's swim community – he runs the Ocean Swim Series, the Summer Swim Series, the Beach Series, and Swim Vanuatu. He's also a swim coach in Auckland and owns The Swim Shop, which sells gear for pool and open water swimmers.
In this episode we talk about:
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Lynne Cox is an American open water swimmer who has set records, and brought people together, around the world.
Lynne chronicles all of these magnificent swims and many others in her memoir 'Swimming to Antarctica: Tales of a Long Distance Swimmer' (2004). She has written a number of other books too, including the children's books 'Yoshi, Sea Turtle Genius' and 'Elizabeth, Queen of the Seas', a true story about an elephant seal that lived in Christchurch's Avon River.
Visit Lynne's website to learn more about her swims, her books, and guest speaking appearances.
The photo of Lynne with Saki the seal is courtesy of Lynne Cox.
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Outdoor Swimmer magazine is the world's only monthly, printed magazine about open water or wild swimming (as far as we know!). It was founded by Simon Griffiths in 2011 and October 2025 is the magazine's 100th issue, edited by Ella Foote who has been Outdoor Swimmer's editor since 2022.
Simon and Ella are (unsurprisingly!) very passionate about swimming. They have both written books and accomplished many impressive swims in all sorts of locations. Ella is also a swim coach and provides guided swim experiences through her company, Dip Advisor.
In this episode we discuss the highlights and challenges of publishing a swim magazine that celebrates the fun, joy and connections of swimming outdoors, from dipping to ultramarathons, and which includes safety tips and swim gear advice. We also talk about Simon and Ella's own swimming journeys and the importance of swim communities.
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Dan Abel is a former competitive swimmer, an ultra-marathon swimmer (including the English Channel and Cook Strait), and the founder of swim company Fit & Abel, which offers pool and open water swim coaching, swim safety and accessibility advice, and 'RealSwim Adventures' in NZ's South Island.
With a lifelong history of swimming Dan brings a lot of passion and dedication to his role, with a strong belief in giving people not just technical swim skills but also "environmental confidence" – the ability to enjoy swimming outdoors in nature.
In this episode we talk about:
The books mentioned by Dan: Lynne Cox’s 'Swimming to Antarctica', Terry Laughlin’s 'Total Immersion', 'Plastic Ocean' by Charles Moore, 'A History of Open-Water Marathon Swimming' by Timothy M Johnson, 'Swim Smooth' by Paul Newsome.
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Sinéad Kehoe is the founder of Wāhine Wai, a dippers' group in Wellington. In this episode we discuss eight swim books we've enjoyed, two swim songs, and two swim films:
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After being diagnosed in 2015 with Ankylosing Spondylitis (AS), a painful inflammatory arthritic condition, Kylie Frost was advised to move her body to keep mobile. She began exercising multiple times a week, then decided she needed a goal. She started entering triathlons and set her sights on IRONMAN NZ (a 3.8km swim, 180km bike ride and 42km run), which she completed in 2021 after six years of building her strength and stamina. The time limit to complete the event was 17 hours and she managed it with 70 seconds to spare, with her support crew cheering her on.
Kylie has since qualified as a triathlon coach and founded the Twisted Sisters Club, which helps beginners to achieve their goals – whether it’s a short swim in the sea or entering their first triathlon. As the website puts it: "Our mission is to empower women through sports, assisting them in overcoming any barriers to reach their objectives ... We all progress at our individual pace, celebrating every victory, regardless of its size."
In this episode Kylie talks about her diagnosis at age 40, her initial search for a coach who was able to support a beginner with a chronic health condition (she found triathlete Tony O’Hagan, who sadly passed away in 2020), her experience of working towards and completing IRONMAN NZ, becoming a coach herself to support a range of abilities, and the founding of the Twisted Sisters Club and what it offers for women who want to take those first steps (or strokes) in the sea.
Twisted Sisters Club Facebook page
NZ Ocean Swim Community Facebook group
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Susan Sherwin is one of the founders of IISA (International Ice Swimming Association) Aotearoa New Zealand and runs the annual NZ Ice Swimming Championships . An ice swim needs to be in water that's 5°C (41°F) or less, swum only in togs, goggles, a standard cap, and with optional earplugs.
Susan is an accomplished ice swimmer herself, having completed two 'extreme' ice miles (2km). She is also one of just a handful of people to have achieved NZ's Triple Crown: Lake Taupō in 2020, Raukawa Moana / Cook Strait in 2021, and Te Ara a Kiwa / Foveaux Strait in 2022 at the age of 61. She now has her eye on Australia's Triple Crown – within two weeks this year she completed the Rottnest Channel Swim (20km) in Western Australia and the Derwent River Big Swim (34km) in Tasmania.
In this episode Susan talks about how she returned to swimming in her 40s after having kids, gradually building from a few kilometres to ultramarathons. For her, it's about being in the water, enjoying people and nature, and saying yes to new opportunities.
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It’s a swim literature episode! Featuring John Hancock, who told us the colourful life story of Sir Bernard Freyberg and his wartime swim.
This time John and Shona talk about:
The “mad, bad and dangerous to know” poet Lord Byron’s 1810 swim across the Dardanelles (formerly the Hellespont, between Europe and Asia). Lord Byron was inspired by the ancient Greek myth of Leander, who swam across the same body of water to his lover Hero’s lantern-lit tower each night. Byron recounted his swim triumph in his poem ‘Don Juan’.
The Old English poem Beowulf, whose protagonist spent a week in the freezing Scandinavian ocean, first competing with his childhood friend Breca and then fighting off ‘sea monsters’.
Much more recently, British writer Roger Deakin’s series of swims across Britain, captured in his beautiful book Waterlog (1999). Deakin is considered by many to be the founding father of the modern ‘wild swimming’ movement.
John and Shona do some readings from the texts above (extra points to John for managing some Old English). John also talks about the book Haunts of the Black Masseur: the Swimmer as Hero by Charles Sprawson (1992).
We’re keen to know what you think of this episode! Leave a comment or email swimchatswithshona at gmail dot com.
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In the introduction Shona talks about Ben Knight, a Wellington ocean advocate and protector who sadly passed away this month. Over the years Ben worked with Mountains to Sea Wellington and Sustainable Coastlines, which posted a lovely tribute to Ben on Facebook with some conservation figures that demonstrate his incredible legacy. Thank you, Ben. You have inspired many of us.
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Dr Heather Massey is an open water swimmer, a scientist, and a senior lecturer at the University of Portsmouth in the UK. As part of her job she researches the physiological effects of cold water, as well as the risks and potential benefits of cold water swimming.
What happens to our body when we get into cold water? What’s the 'cold shock response' and what is 'afterdrop'? Who benefits from cold water, how, and why? How do people survive ‘ice swimming’, including in Antarctica? But most importantly, how can people get into cold water and return home safely?
Heather’s advice includes:
Learn more about Heather’s research (and the Extreme Environments Laboratory) on the University of Portsmouth website
'Wild swimming scientist Heather Massey: "Hypothermia is not a pretty sight"'. Guardian article, June 2021
The Outdoor Swimming Society website
Water Safety NZ – 'Staying safe'
Photo of Heather by Terry Scott
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Wellington Harbourmaster Grant Nalder oversees navigation in Te Whanganui-a-Tara. That involves monitoring the movement of vessels (ships, boats, waka, etc.), managing marker buoys, and also, increasingly, looking out for ocean swimmers.
On this episode we talk about:
- the role of the Harbourmaster
- the importance of swimmers being visible to boats (tow floats are mandatory for swimmers who are more than 200m offshore – see the bylaw details below), and also the need for boaties to be aware of swimmers
- the near miss one swimmer, who was new to the area, had with a ferry in 2024 when they inadvertently swam in the shipping channel
- the water features enjoyed by swimmers in Oriental Bay (pontoons, buoys, the Carter saltwater fountain, Pt Jerningham Lighthouse)
- the pink swim buoys being added to the Oriental Bay swim route – breaking news on the podcast!
My favourite tip: strap a whistle to your wrist. It's easier for boats to hear a whistle than if you shout, and you can raise the alarm too if you're in trouble.
For questions or thoughts on this episode, leave a comment or email swimchatswithshona@gmail.com
You can contact the Wellington Harbourmaster via:
harbours@gw.govt.nz
Greater Wellington 04 384 5708
Harbour radio (urgent) 04 473 4547
Keep up to date with local goings-on via the Wellington Ocean Swimmers Facebook group (public group)
Greater Wellington Navigation Bylaws (PDF) –'Swimmers more than 200 metres from shore must tow a bright-coloured safety float or swim buoy and brightly coloured swim cap (if worn), unless accompanied by a support craft.'
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What a privilege to spend an hour talking to Phil Rush, a coaching and swimming legend. Here are just some of his open water swim achievements:
In this episode we talk about how endurance swimming has changed over the years, the importance of mental as well as physical training, monitoring swimmers for hypothermia, working as a team to help people achieve their swim goals, how he swam for more than 24 hours, that crucial final stage of a marathon swim, the buzz of getting swimmers to the other side, and much more.
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Kate Camp is a poet, author, and ocean swimmer. She's also the organiser of the annual '9 Bays of Matariki' winter swims and the '12 Bays of Christmas' summer swims.
In this episode Kate talks about when and how she started sea swimming, the art of quickly changing out of wet togs into warm clothes, and the importance of the swim community. She also reads a poem called 'Freyberg Carpark' – featuring Graham from episode 10! – from her new book, 'Makeshift Seasons' (Te Herenga Waka University Press, 2025).
Follow the Matariki swims (or come if you're in Wellington) via the Facebook event page
Buy a copy of Makeshift Seasons from Unity Books
Read Kate's article 'Why I won't write about swimming' on The Spinoff
Author photo by Ebony Lamb
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This month you can sponsor Shona for The Big Swim (Coastguard NZ fundraiser) : bigswim.org.nz/s-riddell
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Coastguard NZ rescues thousands of Kiwis a year and relies on the dedication of its volunteers, who require training and equipment to save lives on the water.
Wellington president of Coastguard NZ (and surf lifesaver) James Groombridge talks about The Big Swim, a month-long fundraiser involving swimmers of all ages and abilities. If you're not swimming, you can sponsor a swimmer!
Shona's Big Swim page is bigswim.org.nz/s-riddell. Please sponsor me if you can – all funds go to Coastguard NZ.
I'm part of The Tridents and together we're swimming 100km – visit our team page: bigswim.org.nz/the-tridents
Learn more about Coastguard NZ
Visit Volunteering NZ to search volunteer roles around NZ
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Ann Skelly is a Waiheke Island artist who creates beautiful seascapes and landscapes that feature the ocean in all its varying moods: dappled and rippled in the sun, fierce and churning, blue and inviting.
Shona talked to Ann at the 2025 NZ Art Show, which runs annually in Wellington over King's Birthday weekend.
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In June Shona is taking part in Coastguard NZ's The Big Swim – follow and support The Tridents!
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Dr Nicole Miller is a Wellington scuba diver who cares deeply about our underwater kelp forests and marine life. She's the Chair of the Friends of Taputeranga Marine Reserve Trust, the former President of Wellington Underwater Club, and the founder of Explore Your Coast, with the goal of filming 70km of Wellington Harbour, Te Whanganui-a-Tara, and documenting changes to our coastal ecosystems.
In this marine conservation episode we talk about giant kelp, octopuses, creative ways of showing people what's below the surface to raise awareness, protecting what we love, and Nicole's new documentary called Seaweed, a Love Story.
Watch the trailer for Seaweed, a Love Story and keep up to date with the latest news and events. Nicole is also looking for partners and sponsors to bring the film to different parts of NZ. To find out more, contact her at exploreyourcoast@gmail.com.
Visit Explore Your Coast for more about Nicole's project to film and document 70km of Wellington's coastline.
Visit Taputeranga Marine Reserve on Wellington's South Coast.
Watch a video about kina/sea urchin grazing in Wellington Harbour (2021 and 2022 comparisons), then learn about kelp forest recovery after kina removal and community action.
Watch Nicole's TedxWellington talk (2024).
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Graham Joe is the owner of Gelissimo @ Freyberg, an outdoor cafe/kiosk right next to Freyberg Beach in Wellington. It’s a hub for morning swimmers who congregate there for coffee, scones, porridge and toasties. The post-swim conversations I have there every week, over excellent coffee, were the inspiration for this podcast.
Graham started getting in the sea a few years ago after an accident left him in pain and unable to run. He found that getting in the cold water helped his recovery so he kept doing it, slowly building in confidence and distance. Now early swims are a staple of his day, all year round.
If you're in Wellington, you should definitely check out Gelissimo @ Freyberg!
Gelissimo website gelissimo.co.nz
Gelissimo on Instagram www.instagram.com/gelissimo_gelato/
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Brett Richardson is a Wellington swimmer who swam across Cook Strait (Te Moana-o-Raukawa) in 2020 and Foveaux Strait (Te Ara a Kiwa) in 2024. He swims in the ocean year round, often early in the morning – which, in winter, means it’s pitch black in the water (aside from his head torch) from start to finish. In this episode Brett shares how his swimming grew from new-to-ocean-swimming to marathon level, the strategies he incorporates for successful long swims, and the joy of getting in the sea every week – no matter what the weather’s up to.
Health and safety note: Brett is a highly experienced ocean swimmer. If you’re new to sea swimming the best advice is to join a local group, start in the warmer months, check the conditions before you get in, and stick close to shore as you grow in confidence and ability.
Brett’s YouTube video of his Foveaux Strait swim
‘After 10 hours, Brett Richardson emerges from Cook Strait hypothermic and victorious’ (Stuff, November 27 2020)
NZ Sports page for Meda McKenzie, who swam Cook Strait at 15 years old in 1978.
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