In this week's episode, Michael McRay sets the table for next week's conversation with Brittany and Geoff Anderson, authors of Living Room Leadership. After his divorce, Michael crafted a framed set of commitments that define how he and his son show up together. This episode explores the radical but simple claim that world-changing leadership begins at home, and that the tools we treat as normal at work - vision, mission, values - matter even more in our living rooms. Michael introduces key themes from next week's conversation: moving from deficit to strength-based family culture, understanding families as systems rather than just individuals, and reclaiming play as a leadership technology that accelerates learning and disarms defensiveness. In this episode, Michael also shares:
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Michael McRay welcomes listeners into a different kind of episode - a celebration of his fifth book, The Wild Way: Navigating the Space Between the Old Story and the New, releasing today. Tune in for an intimate invitation into the heart of a project years in the making, born from more than a decade of coaching conversations, story facilitation, and personal notes from the dark forest. Michael reads from the opening pages of the book, sharing the concept of the wild twin - the exiled, instinctual part of ourselves that knows the way into the woods, the part we sent away for being too much, too loud, too alive. In this episode, Michael also shares:
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This week, Michael McRay and Harris III gather for a raw, timely conversation about what it means to treat story as sacred in a world that has reduced it to formulas and frameworks. Reflecting on last week's interview with Kaitlin Curtice and her new book Everything is a Story, they explore why their conference is simply called "STORY" - a deliberate choice to reclaim storytelling from the creative class and awaken everyone to their inherent creativity and narrative power. The conversation confronts the cultural moment we're living in: a world where rage has replaced nuance, where social media algorithms feed us dopamine hits of outrage, and where we've lost the ability to sit at tables with people who think differently. In this episode, they also discuss:
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Episode Summary
Michael McRay welcomes award-winning author and poet Kaitlin Curtice to celebrate the launch of her new book, Everything is a Story. Curtice, an enrolled citizen of the Potawatomi Nation, explores how narrative drives all human behavior and shapes our identities, beliefs, and relationships. The conversation weaves through Indigenous wisdom, spirituality, and the profound recognition that stories aren't just things we tell - they are living beings that we participate with and that fundamentally shape how we experience the world. Curtice shares her journey through health challenges leading up to the book launch, the vulnerability of putting creative work into the world, and why she chose the metaphor of an oak tree's life cycle to structure her exploration of storytelling. In this episode, they also discuss:
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Michael McRay prepares listeners for his upcoming conversation with Kaitlin Curtice, award-winning author and Potawatomi Nation citizen, whose new book Everything is a Story explores how stories root in our bodies, beliefs, and behaviors. Michael reflects on Kaitlin's framework of stories as lethal, loving, or liminal - categories that he argues aren't separate buckets but overlapping truths within the same narrative. Michael demonstrates how a single story can simultaneously hold hope and futility, love and obedience, connection and violence. Michael challenges the notion that we lose stories we didn't choose, examining how narratives handed down through family, church, and culture take root before we even recognize them as stories. He introduces the parable of the man building a house in a field who trapped insects inside by adding windows - a metaphor for how stories get locked into our forming brains during childhood and require intentional work to shift. In this episode, he also discusses:
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Tune in as Michael McRay and Harris III explore the complex relationship between emotions and storytelling, diving into whether we're primarily emotional beings who tell stories, or story beings who experience emotions. Harris shares how his childhood survival mechanism of entertaining others to manage their emotional states shaped his career path, while Michael reflects on his "emotions epiphany" through Karla McLaren's work. They challenge the common phrase "story follows state," arguing instead for a circular relationship where stories create emotional states and emotional states influence the stories we tell ourselves. Their conversation examines how both emotions and imagination remain active throughout our lives, even when redirected toward anxiety and catastrophizing rather than creative expression. In this episode, they also discuss:
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Join Michael McRay as he continues his conversation with emotional researcher Karla McLaren, diving deeper into how emotions serve as guides rather than problems to solve. Karla explains that when emotions feel overwhelming, it's often about our lack of skills to work with them rather than the intensity itself. She reframes depression as an intelligent system that removes energy to redirect us from destructive paths. Their conversation reveals how toxic positivity isolates those experiencing intense emotions, while slightly depressed people often see reality more clearly than eternally optimistic ones. Karla introduces "narrative completion"—how witnessing recovery and resolution is essential for healing, from trauma workers to personal relationships. In this episode, they also discuss:
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Michael McRay welcomes Karla McLaren, award-winning author and emotional researcher whose work has fundamentally reshaped how many understand inner life and emotional intelligence. Karla shares how her journey into emotions began not as academic pursuit but as survival. When severe childhood abuse left her with intense emotions that no one around her would acknowledge or discuss, Karla was forced to decode the language of emotions on her own. This conversation challenges fundamental assumptions about emotions, particularly the myth of "positive" versus "negative" feelings. They explore how gender stereotypes allow men anger but punish them for it, while women can express sadness but face consequences for that too. The discussion reveals how most people can instantly recall emotion-shaming messages but struggle to remember any emotion-welcoming ones, highlighting our culture's fundamental discomfort with feelings. In this episode, they also discuss:
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In preparation for his upcoming two-part conversation with emotional researcher and author Karla McLaren, Michael McRay explores why emotions are the fundamental architecture of all storytelling. Drawing from his work with David Hutchins in the Storytelling Leader program, Michael addresses the common pitfall of leaders who shy away from emotion in their stories, mistakenly believing that emotional storytelling means crying in front of their teams. Michael shares how Karla's work revolutionized his understanding that every emotion exists because we need it - fear as a signal, sadness as a release, anger as an alarm, and shame as an alignment check. He challenges the common emotional trinity of "happy, mad, and sad" and advocates for emotional fluency as both a survival skill and essential component of narrative intelligence. In this episode, he also discusses:
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In today's episode, Michael McRay and Harris III dive deep into how we define success and failure, exploring whether our culture's focus on mental health has inadvertently reduced our resilience. Their conversation examines the pendulum swing from necessary trauma awareness to potentially over-labeling every difficulty as trauma, and how this impacts our ability to navigate the inevitable failures that come with building a business or pursuing meaningful goals. Harris shares insights from his work with purpose-driven entrepreneurs who often struggle when their well-intentioned efforts don't yield immediate results, while Michael reflects on Jordan Geary's concept of "failure as origin story." Drawing from Michael's upcoming book "The Wild Way," they explore how success might be better defined as "any action in service of the story you want to live" rather than arrival at predetermined destinations. In this episode, they also discuss:
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This week, Michael McRay sits down with Jordan Geary, Emmy Award-winning creative producer and executive at Sesame Workshop who has spent over 20 years crafting stories for children and families through beloved shows like Sesame Street's Mecha Builders, Ghostwriter, and Helpsters. After ten years at Sesame, Jordan has discovered his new mission: helping people shift their perspective from feeling like extras in their own lives to recognizing themselves as the heroes of their personal stories. This conversation explores how children's content teaches us about the power of personal stakes in storytelling, why kids are far smarter than adults give them credit for, and how the future of media will continue moving toward giving audiences more agency and curation. In this episode, they also discuss:
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Michael McRay reflects on the profound idea that "self-authorship is a sacred act" and explores what it means to move from simply telling stories to becoming better stories. Drawing from his own experience growing up in the church, Michael examines how so many of us have lived inside stories written by others - whether by religious institutions, cultural systems, or societal expectations. He shares his personal journey of recognizing that his sensitivity wasn't a weakness but a signal that the internalized stories weren't the whole truth. This solo episode is preparation for his upcoming conversation with Emmy-winning producer Jordan Geary, who has spent decades creating transformative stories for children and families through shows like Sesame Street. Michael introduces his framework of four limiting stories - self-doubt, victim, self-defeating, and avoidance - and explains how the goal isn't to delete painful narratives but to integrate them into a fifth story that transforms pain into purpose. In this episode, he also discusses:
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Michael McRay reconnects with Harris III to unpack the conversation with Pádraig Ó Tuama and explore the broader implications of moving from an information age to a wisdom based economy. They dive into how artificial intelligence is making information abundant and cheap, while wisdom becomes increasingly rare and valuable. Harris argues that as AI makes it harder to trust anything we see on screens, people will crave authentic, in-person human experiences - exactly the kind that storytelling provides. Their conversation examines empathy as a crucial component of narrative intelligence, but they also explore its shadow side, questioning whether our culture's elevation of emotions above all else might actually hinder productive action. In this episode, they also discuss:
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Michael McRay sits down with his longtime friend Pádraig Ó Tuama, the Irish poet, theologian, conflict mediator, and storyteller who has profoundly shaped Michael's approach to narrative intelligence over their decade-long friendship. Their rich conversation explores the delicate balance between fostering empathy through story while recognizing that mandatory empathy rarely works. Pádraig shares how his work in communities with people from both sides of the Irish border taught him that storytelling isn't inherently good - it's power that can either liberate or control. He also reflects on his years leading Ireland's oldest peace and reconciliation organization, and discusses the origins of Tenx9, the community storytelling night he co-founded in Belfast. In this episode, they also discuss:
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This week, Michael McRay prepares listeners for his upcoming conversation with Pádraig Ó Tuama, the Irish poet, theologian, conflict mediator, and storyteller who has profoundly shaped Michael's approach to story work over their long friendship. This episode introduces the concept of narrative humility - the practice of remembering that no matter how good a story is (even your own) it doesn't tell the whole truth. Michael explores how our impulse to quickly moralize stories or force neat conclusions actually limits their transformative power. Through examples ranging from a retreat participant's mountain rescue story to the tragic tale of physician Ignaz Semmelweis, Michael demonstrates how our attachment to certain narratives can blind us to deeper truths and alternative perspectives. In this episode, he also discusses:
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Episode Summary
To unpack the incredible conversation with researcher Ben Rogers about his groundbreaking research on the hero's journey framework, Harris III rejoins Michael McRay. They explore how understanding our lives as unfolding stories, rather than just random events, has implications for reducing anxiety, increasing contentment, and building resilience. Michael and Harris examine about how Ben's research validates what they've long believed: that the stories we tell ourselves fundamentally shape our physiology, our choices, and our capacity for growth. In this episode, they also discuss:
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Michael McRay sits down with Dr. Ben Rogers, a researcher at Boston College, to explore his groundbreaking research proving that people who view their lives through the hero's journey framework experience measurably greater meaning, resilience, and life satisfaction. They explore how growth mindset is really just a story we tell ourselves about our capacity to change. Dr. Rogers shares how his personal experiences shifted from finance to studying what makes life meaningful. Their conversation reveals how the narratives we tell ourselves about everything from workplace challenges to personal setbacks directly shape our well-being. In this episode, they also discuss:
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What if the key to resilience isn't changing your circumstances, but changing how you see your story? Michael McRay takes listeners through the profound idea that you are a character in a story—and how you understand your role and arc might be one of the most important frames you ever adopt. Drawing on Joseph Campbell's hero's journey and upcoming research from Dr. Ben Rogers, Michael reveals how people who view their lives through mythic storytelling frameworks report greater meaning, resilience, and well-being. In this episode, he also discusses:
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Michael McRay welcomes back Harris III for a fascinating exploration of vulnerability, wonder, and influence. Harris shares a powerful story about performing a trick at a conference, then doing something radical—he simply stopped talking. The result? Thirty different people found thirty different meanings, each more profound than anything he could have prescribed. They explore Lisa Cron's framework for narrative influence and why you can't just give someone a transformation—you have to understand their starting point. In this episode, Michael and Harris also discuss:
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What if everything you think you know about emotion and decision-making is backwards? Michael McRay sits down with Lisa Cron, the brilliant mind behind "Wired for Story" and "Story or Die," to unpack the revolutionary science showing that emotion isn't the enemy of logic—it's actually running the show. Lisa reveals how her fascination with story began in the most unlikely place: analyzing subway advertisements during her daily commute in New York, studying which ones made her want to buy versus which ones made her roll her eyes. This conversation demolishes the myth that we're rational beings who sometimes feel, exposing the truth that we're feeling beings who rationalize everything. Lisa explains why your brain treats every story like virtual reality and why vulnerability isn't just nice to have in storytelling—it's the neurological key that unlocks human connection. In this episode, they discuss:
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