Donald Trump’s theory of a government shutdown was that it would give him more power to fire federal employees, and cut benefits and healthcare. Of course, if you claim to be an all-powerful executive, aren’t people going to conclude that the shutdown is your fault? Guest: David Dayen, executive editor of the American Prospect. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth summoned the military’s top brass from all over the world for a meeting to announce…they need to shave and get in shape? And then Trump followed with a speech about how he wants to deploy them in American cities and also Joe Biden sucks. Good talk, everybody.  Guest: Idrees Ali, national security correspondent for Reuters. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The president’s case against James Comey doesn’t look very strong to outside legal observers. But even the most spurious accusation against the former head of the FBI would matter when it comes from the sitting president. Guest: Ankush Khardori, senior writer for POLITICO Magazine and former federal prosecutor in the US Justice Department. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With Gaza cut off from food and aid, activists have taken matters into their own hands, and are attempting to circumvent Israel’s blockade themselves via the Mediterranean. Guest:  Zue Jernstedt, member of About Face: Veterans Against the War and participant on the Veterans Boat of the Global Sumud Flotilla. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you’re getting out of an Uber, Tesla’s unintuitive door handle can embarrass you. In an emergency, getting out of the car quickly can be the difference between life and death. Guest: Dana Hull, Bloomberg News reporter covering Tesla and Elon Musk  Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The government runs out of money next Tuesday. Trump’s threatened “mass firings” if it shuts down. Earlier this year, Democrats played ball. But now, one Democratic Senator explains why he’s approaching things differently. Guest: Chris Van Hollen, Democratic Senator from Maryland. This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why would Donald Trump rush to announce that Tylenol is a potential cause of autism, a claim unsupported by the research? Guest: Dan Diamond, White House reporter for the Washington Post. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The First Amendment prohibits Congress from making laws that abridge freedom of speech or of the press, but in the wake of Charlie Kirk’s murder, it’s clear that it doesn’t take a law to attack those rights. Guest:  Karen Attiah, former columnist for the Washington Post and former editor of the Post’s Global Opinions section. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over three different trips during the war, this doctor saw the chaos of blast injuries in northern Gaza give way to gunshot wounds suffered at aid-distribution sites in the south.  Guest:  Dr. Mohammed "Adeel" Khaleel, minimally invasive and complex spinal surgeon with Texas Metroplex Institute for Sports Medicine & Orthopedic Surgery. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

American agriculture relies on foreign workers, and they rely on the H-2A visa program to work legally in the United States. Despite a growing number of people applying for visa spots, the Trump administration has proposed cutting the division of the Department of Labor that enforces H-2A rules, leaving workers to choose between being vulnerable to ICE or to exploitation.  Guest: Max Blau, ProPublica reporter covering health care, the environment, agriculture and immigration. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Media giants like Paramount and Disney have been swift to capitulate to the Trump administration and the tenacious head of the FCC, Brendan Carr. Why new ownership from the likes of the Ellisons is likely to make things worse. Guest: Nitish Pahwa, staff writer for business and tech at Slate. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you’re hunting for a job, the odds are increasingly likely you’ll have an interview with an artificial intelligence “recruiter.” And why not? It’s also increasingly likely you’ll be working with A.I. anyway.  Guest: Danielle Abril, technology-in-the-workplace reporter for the Washington Post. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TikTok—which was supposed to be banned again on Wednesday but, again, isn’t—may be legal once more. The Trump administration says it’s meeting with Xi Jinping Friday to finalize the agreement, which may involve—get this—a wealthy Trump-supporting tech mogul.  Guest: Nitish Pahwa, staff writer for business and tech at Slate. This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next TBD—you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the Charlie Kirk murder demonstrated, law enforcement, the government, and media all need more internet fluency. But their reactions in the wake of the murder don’t seem to be moving towards a better understanding.  Guest:  Ryan Broderick, reporter on online culture, author of the newsletter Garbage Day. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Donald Trump has been calling for the Fed to cut rates to bolster the economy, and yesterday, they announced they would. The bad news is that’s because the economy is going to need a lot more bolstering. Guest:  Justin Wolfers, economist and professor at the University of Michigan Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens to an organization when it purges much of its leadership and ranks irrespective of ability, and hires for sycophantic loyalty instead? The FBI is finding out.  Guests:   Michael Feinberg, former assistant special agent in charge at the FBI’s field office in Norfolk, VA, now a fellow at Lawfare. Quinta Jurecic, staff writer at The Atlantic. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conservatives have decried higher education as a center of liberal indoctrination for decades, and under the second Trump administration, colleges and universities are watching their federal funding be withheld or frozen, their presidents step down, and professors lose their jobs. What can be done to wrest back academic freedom and independence from a vindictive administration? Guest:  Sarah Brown, senior editor of the Chronicle of Higher Education. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hasan Piker was scheduled to debate Charlie Kirk at Dartmouth University later this month, a left-vs-right, Vidal-vs-Buckley for the streaming age. In the wake of Kirk’s shocking death, Piker wants to continue to be clear about who Kirk was, what he stood for, and the reactionary political project he was working to advance. Guest: Hasan Piker, Twitch streamer and left-wing political commentator.  Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After their daughter committed suicide, they found her ChatGPT log—and where artificial intelligence helped her write her suicide note. Guest:  Laura Reiley, writer for the Cornell Chronicle.  Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Friday, authorities announced they had a suspect – and they sure seemed confident they “got him” (to quote Utah Governor Spencer Cox). Mary and Slatester Luke Winkie discuss the press conference – and what happens now. Guest: Luke Winkie, Slate staff writer. This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices