We're ending 2022 by talking about the one and only Title Fight. To bring us home, we had Kyle and Ellie of the E Word Podcast join us again.
First, a quick year-end wrap-up of records from 2022 we think you should check out: Fuss, Spider God, Squint, and PLOSIVS. There's been so much great stuff this year and hopefully these are things that you'll check out alongside the heavy hitters.
As for Title Fight, you know them and you love them. It's hard to think of a band that has ever been more unifying and important at the intersection of punk, emo, and hardcore. Their legacy is immense, and it's impossible to predict what would happen if they got back together. We try to unpack that here as best we can. Will Jim fake their death in order to get Title Fight back together? Listen to find out!
We're slowing down for 2023. We'll see you when we see you, with some heat. Thanks for being with us this year. We love you. Have a safe and happy new year <3.
If you like heavy hardcore, you likely know Troy-Core by sound, if not by name. This marginal scene in Upstate New York in the 1990s created some of the most unhinged, brutal, and heavy hardcore bands the impacts of which can be felt all the way to the current day – sometimes being referenced pretty directly by acts like Twitching Tongues and God's Hate. Anything this influential is worth exploring a little, especially when it's shrouded in mystery.
We're joined today by former Upstate NY resident and avid Troy-Core enjoyer Eli Enis. Eli is an editor at Revolver Magazine, hosts the Endless Scroll podcast, and has bylines at Rolling Stone, Billboard, Entertainment Weekly, Vice, MTV News, Stereogum, The Alternative, & more.
As always, we start with current events. Punitive Damage. Candy Apple. Restraining Order and Spaced. Envision. Riot Stares. 185 Miles South. Prize Horse, Taking Meds, and Webbed Wing. Gates To Hell, Snakeout, Sawchuk, and Mutilatred. Citizen, Prince Daddy, and Militarie Gun. Who Decides. Fleshwater.
For more of Eli's lovely voice and opinions, check out Endless Scroll Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/002BZK0oGRZhDfFDjUoqcM?si=3f84f43a509943a6
Troy-Core Essentials playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS6kgPyy16uECM58HZ0npfWABbZBhQsWT
Ohio Death Metal going in on 2000s Emo? Seems like our kind of thing. We've got Ian of Hanging Fortress, Holy Coast, and Settle The Sky here to talk about the 2000s band ever, Further Seems Forever.
First in line is current events: The No Pressure/Enervate/Instill/Big Laugh/Pain Of Truth gig. Regulate/Jon Markson. Meka, Hu-Mid. Sunny Day Real Estate power outages. Furnace Fest: Dying Wish, Sick Of It All, Elliott, Poison The Well, and Strike Anywhere. Escuela Grind. High Vis. Glitterer.
Further Seems Forever navigated a chaotic series of lineup changes over the course of the early 2000s to churn out some really good records and some really solid tracks on the records that weren't as complete. Their adjacency to the Christian Hardcore world gave them an exceptional opportunity to expose big audiences to their unique brand of luxuriously composed Emo-Indie crossover. Their records were backdrops for some of the finest work done by vocalists from some of the more disparate corners of Emo, and while they are very much a Bands' Band, their music is held fondly in the hearts of true heads across the scene. Dive in!
Andrew Sacher BrooklynVegan The Moon Is Down piece:
Discography playlist:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1K18Dk9LBsZhRFEYiSzsj8?si=31a7a0f609cf43a2
Today, we're talking about Baltimore's Trapped Under Ice, the most important Hardcore band of the 21st Century this side of Terror.
But first, current events! The Vein, Candy, Regulate, and Living Weapon tour. A Place For Owls. The Arrival Note. Excide. Callous Daoboys world takeover and Mike Patton comps. Camping In Alaska. The road return of Parasitic Twins. Who Decides. The Syracuse Hardcore Revival? Spite House. The Berries. Homework for the Hardlore Disharmony/Rust deep dive.
TUI moved mountains in Hardcore, all but single-handedly shifting the vibe of the culture and genre. Then, in the wake of that, their members went on to shift the culture again via new projects. At the end of the day, TUI and their members are pretty impossible to disentangle from Hardcore as it currently stands, and their entire discography (even and maybe especially Heatwave) should be regarded for contributing massively to the genre in a way that is impossible to erase. Fun times.
The day has come, a silence is broken, a new era dawns.
We’re joined by Very Special Guests Kyle and Ellie, formerly of the E Word Podcast and godparents of Watch Me Pod. We talk about the rise and fall of the E Word, life in the interim, the social currency of being Mad Online, the 5th Wave bonanza, dead website data disasters, and the yet-to-be-named E Word reboot.
We do a deep dive into the Blink-182 discography, 30 years into the band. Other analysis that’s been leveled at Blink has been focused on their trajectory as a commercial and cultural phenomenon at the macro level, and while that is all fine and good and compelling, most if not all of this analysis falls short in one department: Are there tracks? How are the tracks? Do the tracks have riffs and parts? How are the riffs and parts? You know, shit Core kids tend to focus on.
Thanks again to Kyle and Ellie for joining us. This was both a big honor and a sweet hang. Keep your eyes to the skies for whatever’s next from Kyle and Ellie.
Sound And Fury FOMO. Yo Coyote. Bottom Bracket and the Ultra Pedalboard. SUMAC and Aaron Turner supremacy. Life’s Question HC AOTY. Dazy. Xingfoo & Roy. Alien Boy. The tug of war between playing gigs and going to gigs. Two Houses/Grool Brothers/Babe Report. Shitty Neighbors. Stand Still/Bent Blue. Obsolete Man and Beer Riffs. Highway Sniper. SPEED Do America.
No Warning. Underrated? Properly rated? Definitely not overrated! We dive into the No Warning discography and talk about how good and interesting it is. We talk about the band’s fast ascendancy and their journey through the Butt Rock Bonanza of 2004, and we give a nod to their immense legacy in the 2000s-2010s hardcore sound which is completely impossible to overlook, and we attempt to give them a sufficient amount of flowers for such an excellent and impactful band.
SPEED on Yeah, But Still: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0oX30lhxRr8ZWmULIZZAFq?si=9f7d129d8714461d
Naturally, the companion playlist:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2OZrbKwA7N6V7VC79fU5oJ?si=d409a54be8024da3
Record Setter. A Knife In The Dark. SPACED. Laura Stevenson. Being old at the gig and what it means. End It. The role of regional lore in Core. Mutilation Barbecue/Maul/Bud Rot/Meth Stain DIY gig in a convent. World Of Pleasure.
We’re joined by Dave from the legendary Chicago Punk band Two Houses to throw a brick through the Overton Window to discuss the legendary “Real Emo” band Sunny Day Real Estate.
Sunny Day are a necessary part of any conversation about the Emo genre. Their debut record Diary (1994) is arguably THE time capsule Emo record; completely essential for anyone looking to explore the genre. What’s great about SDRE, though, is that their entire discography is diverse, interesting, and – most importantly – very good.
We go around the horn and air our respective hot takes on this storied catalog of records, with an emphasis on selling our ideas to each other, and to you.
What’s your favorite Sunny Day record gonna be?
Companion playlist, of course:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5LP366IQ2C8Pt0t0icVnnk?si=3ed8d0e28e224b91
Crazy OH/MI DIY HC gig with Backbiter, Those Hounds, Hu-Mid, and Methstain. The compelling case for Gridiron: The long tail of 2020s hardcore strikes again. Michael Cera Palin, Weatherday, Oolong, and Avery Springer. Ben Quad, New You, Camp Trash, Feels Like Heaven. Hitting a Mets game as NYHC praxis.
This week, we’re looking at the short but massive history of Drive-Thru records, a label that’s completely impossible to disentangle from the conversation about Pop Punk and Emo as we know them today. The label made a huge impact by picking a few exceptional bands and flooding the market with their CDs. Not a strategy to sneeze at.
What we find is that the bands that got huge on Drive-Thru got huge because they were good. Like really good. Unlike some other labels like Trustkill or Victory where the catalogs are bursting at the seams with s-tier releases, the gems on DTR are a little fewer and further between. That being said, the bands that rose to the top on DTR made a Punk/Emo flavored impact on mainstream culture that completely dwarfs anything we’ve talked about so far.
The heavy hitters are undeniable and come as no surprise: New Found Glory, Midtown, Dashboard Confessional, The Starting Line, Finch, The Movielife, Something Corporate, and The Early November. Honorable mention to I Am The Avalanche, who went on to build a world of their own in the 2010s.
Come for these takes, stay for the crazy story of how New Found Glory ended up getting signed to Drive-Thru and the story of how Jim saw dashboard for free in 2005.
Companion playlist, as always:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6YqBtcveJmgA5ZavqrrAgq?si=e997406317da45fc
Tied Down Detroit review(brah(s)). End It as the new tent party HC band. Playing gigs with For Your Health and Purity Among Thieves. Snow Ellet release show. Dowsing reunion show. The Chad never officially breaking up and playing one show a year forever.
Hugo talks Emo so far this year. Highlights include: Oso Oso, Prince Daddy, Record Setter/Home Is Where, Praise, Anxious, and Retirement Party.
Jim talks Hardcore and Hardcore accessories so far this year. Highlights include: Highway Sniper, Envision, Foreign Hands, Undeath, Mutilatred, Anklebiter, and Soul Glo.
We need Two Minutes To Late Night to do a Braid/Madball Splitsville.
Hugo’s playlist:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/60g1ZEpW5l9jHIakMZ3KQD?si=ba92a5e282c84585
Jim’s playlist:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/77q2dO53NU1dD9tmlYSffd?si=cf6d6f824a9540d6
12 - VICTORY RECORDS 1993-2003 FEAT. XTONYBX
It’s impossible to have a complete conversation about the current state of punk, emo, or hardcore without talking at length about Victory Records. There’s arguably no label that’s had a bigger impact on these genres – commercially or culturally – than Victory.
We’re joined by Real 1990s Hardcore Guy Tony B. from Ft. Wayne, IN to discuss Victory’s impact on our respective journeys into punk, emo, hardcore, Vegan Straight Edge, and so on. What’s more, we dive into Victory’s discography during what was roughly the most impactful and ascendant time for the label, 1993-2003.
Highlights and heavy hitters include Earth Crisis, Snapcase, Strife, Integrity, Deadguy, Refused, By The Grace Of God, Hatebreed, Catch 22, Shutdown, Blood For Blood, Skarhead, Grade, Buried Alive, Reach The Sky, Boysetsfire, Thursday, Ringworm, Taking Back Sunday, Atreyu, Dead To Fall, Thursday, Streetlight Manifesto, and Spitalfield.
Are you more of a Strife - One Truth (1994) guy or a Strife - In This Defiance (1997) guy? Do you like Thursday - Full Collapse (2001) or Thursday - War All The Time (2003) better? Is Systems Overload (1995) the best Integrity record? Much to think about. We end on a sincere note talking about the importance of Vegan Straight Edge in our personal lives. Thank you for listening <3.
Companion playlist:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/265R8GkRro1CHfG3RkcTlp?si=f0409b7487324578
In current events: The Truth Cult / Ekulu / Ceremony / Citizen / Turnstile tour, RLYR, Stress Positions, Mutilatred, Sunami, Mutually Assured Destruction, Raven Records, Killing Pace and other symptoms of Ace Stallings supremacy, SPICE, Spy, Maniac, Sanguisugabogg / Never Ending Game / Kublai Khan / Terror, cathartic cultural experiences and the importance of getting them
On the main line: Elliott are good as h*ll so why aren’t they massive? We dive into that and unpack the mysteries of the band that everybody seems to love in 2022. Are they underrated? Should they be the biggest band? Why don’t more people love this band?!?! The most important question is: Are you a U.S. Songs guy or a False Cathedrals guy?
Chris Higdon on This Was The Scene:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/56Hy3cdrBip9G59QK6GEAC?si=f2887226fdcb4b73
IN TRANSITION: A Film About Elliott:
In the news: The Instill/MSPAINT/Gel/Spy gig in Chicago, the Męka, Hu-Mid, and Molech gig in Toledo, The Flex and Puffer, still listening to Undeath and Two Houses, the new Erase Them EP, Squint from STL
We talk: Mindforce/Gouge Away/Kharma/The Armed/Ekulu/Portrayal Of Guilt/Baptists/Fucked Up/King Nine/Living With Lions/Quicksand/Burn/Tragedy/Warthog/C.H.E.W./City Hunter/Soul Glo
Big takeaways from part 2: Mindforce led directly to the ascendancy of Triple-B and is probably the most impactful record of 2018, Gouge Away defied the odds and made something truly special, fun flagship bands (Turnstile, Drug Church) lead hardcore to a higher place culturally, you can write any genre with pop sensibility and make it better, Ekulu are a great case study for how to become a hype band, Portrayal Of Guilt are masters of genre shapeshifting, Fucked Up are the logical extension of Husker Dü, Daze is the MVP of 2022 so far, newer Quicksand is just Rival Schools on dark mode, Tragedy might not be the biggest band, but their impact is massive, sometimes a lot of history happens all at once, and you can learn a lot about right now by looking at recent history
Companion playlist:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/69V4EttDQko4ext6F71gjx?si=9485b29fec4a4943
Sam Triple-B Forum Of Passion interview:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6pZfAEJlAwnXcS2Hjpn322?si=72574f6a32584787
Lumpy King Nine Forum Of Passion interview:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/1HjDF7ps56BWZLNqY0kJsT?si=36ed3e2d23bc4a78
Burn deep dive on Where It Went:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2PjSGzLyKum9EKNWsEuMaI?si=ab3b5eaa7d5d4563
In current-ish events: PLOSIVS, Two Houses, Undeath, ASkySoBlack, Foreign Hands, Citizen, Another Michael, Bong Mountain, Snuffed
We’re taking a page out of the Axe To Grind playbook and doing a Year In Hardcore episode about 2018, a year that had a massive lasting impact and set the stage for a lot of stuff happening today - join us on 5/16 for part 2
Today, we set the table and talk about: Restraining Order/Regional Justice Center/Gulch/Rule Them All/Section H8/Be All End All/Sunstroke/Somerset Thrower/Wound Man/Berthold City/Super Unison/Mil-Spec/Candy/Fiddlehead/Drug Church/Self Defense Family/Vein/Jesus Piece/Turnstile/Harms Way/Twitching Tongues/True Love/Hopesfall/Terror/Madball/Sick Of It All
Big takeaways from part 1: Ian Shelton is the Michael Jordan of DIY ethics/Trevor Vaughan is probably the Larry Bird of them/Jim is a Mil-Spec superfan/Fiddlehead and Drug Church ushered in the modern era of HC-adjacent music/Jon Markson is the next Kurt Ballou/Vein are the most innovative HC band/One note of a Jesus Piece song would make a founding father’s head explode/Time & Space deserved a better Pitchfork review/Posthuman is like Sparknotes for Godflesh/Twitching Tongues validated Troycore and Pete Steele worship/The new Terror record will change HC forever/Madball and Sick Of It All are super reliable
Companion playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/69V4EttDQko4ext6F71gjx?si=9f4d281404ec4a3a
Andrew Kline Scoped Exposure interview: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7jGoVortxho4hK02M6pm6B?si=c30abc724a384e20
Bo Lueders Forum Of Passion interview:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4gpkehbRQ7bFHbaZRMfJ7x?si=0d312c0dc8de4cf3
Colin Young Forum Of Passion interview:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6kOC8fbThtAUbZ1969PUuC?si=6f0e17bcbb694b1a
The mythos of Orgcore Guy / rehistoric Pop Punk / Samiam as alt rock / Hot Water Music, Florida Man of bands / Forever And Counting the best HWM release / Small Brown Bike supremacy / the similarity of Gainesville, FL and Kalamazoo, MI / the mystery of I Hate Myself / the vision of CombatWoundedVeteran / PLANES MISTAKEN FOR STARS ON TOP / Floor and bomb strings / NOT A HATER POD / Against Me! = GOAT / “Rumbleseat sounds how depression feels" / getting nostalgic, maybe wistful over Defiance, Ohio (and Strike Anywhere) / the Gunmoll / Fifth Hour Hero split
Shout out to David Anthony for joining us and lending his expertise on No Idea for this episode. David has made himself ubiquitous in the world of music writing, with bylines at AV Club, Noisey, and NPR among many others. You can keep up with him at https://www.formerclarity.com/.
Companion playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4fgTBueYS71wZSCMWKQRSM?si=cd6cecc0a16e4c05
YouTube sidecar playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUuamDwjyT8zSM16gLFaWFTP0aRCcKxoX
The new Oso Oso and G.I. Bill (New Morality Zine ON TOP) / Comparing Soul Glo to Refused / Scowl coming out swinging / Vein.fm the best live band in the game currently / Becoming Militarie Gun Dead Heads (Gunheads?) / Touché as the Jimmy Eat World of Hardcore / The continued ascendancy of Buggin’ and Instill / Defending In My Eyes - Nothing To Hide (1999) / Soft-launching the concepts of Prog Mosh, Proto-Amazingcore (h/t Axe To Grind), and Grad School Youth Crew
We come to the conclusion that Count Me Out are the Rolls Royce of straight edge bands. They took advantage of the space they occupied in hardcore to create something truly singular. Did you know the vocals on Permanent were done in one take? Absurd. Special shout out to Brian McTernan for making three truly exceptional records with these fellas. If you haven’t checked out Count Me Out for whatever reason, you need to. They might just be your new favorite band.
Jason Mazzola on Forum Of Passion: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6jQDaOTR9CPIQa7swHP5LT?si=bcb563c97c6e4b51
Where It Went Podcast, hosted by Jason: https://open.spotify.com/show/1bn5yMHusgJqOToiNYsYg7?si=39d053200f014b71
The supreme influence of Glocca Morra and The Sidekicks / The Prince Daddy hoodie as the Bane hoodie of Emo / the consummate professionalism of I Love Your Lifestyle and Oso Oso / Blowout and Del Paxton as personal favorites / hometown heroes Retirement Party / Origami Angel on the S Tier / the concept of Weed Emo / love letters to Short Fictions and Pittsburgh / defining Post-Emo / leaving revival for revival’s sake on the ash heap of history and embracing the bold futurism of bands like Your Arms Are My Cocoon and Guitar Fight From Fooly Cooly / love to Stay Inside for making great Post-Mall Emo / the tension between fucking around and finding out / the future is coming, and it’s big
Companion Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1X1pOCqwkWsNKgssHKTaJc?si=18160abeef0c48cd
Terror are the most important modern hardcore band, so we figured we’d link up with fellow Terror enjoyer Nick Acosta of New Morality Zine to give their body of work a proper dive. We talk about our respective relationships with Terror and go through their (very extensive) discography with a fine-toothed comb. Topics include Scott’s crazy Buffalo work ethic, Todd Jones’ riff supremacy, Dave Wood’s positive straight edge influence, and the power of having a cohesive aesthetic and ethos. Terror deserve every bit of praise they get. All hail the Lords of Pro-Core.
Nick is a real heavy hitter and NMZ has been busy putting out some of the best hardcore and hardcore-adjacent material available. Go get yourself in the know at newmoralityzine.com.
We try giving the proper amount of flowers to legendary New Jersey hardcore band Turning Point (1988-1991). From raw and urgent Youth Of Today worship to some of the most visionary emotional hardcore money can buy, Turning Point covered a LOT of ground in 3 years, and their legacy is alive and well in 2022. Listen to the whole Turning Point discography today - it’s good to have.
The era of compilations // Brother’s Keeper’s maniac vocals // Turmoil supremacy // Poison The Well and Hopesfall as standard bearers of white belt hardcore // The Orange County dynasty // Straight Edge Madlibs // T E R R O R // Candace of Jericho GOAT tier vocalist // Getting My Bloody Valentine and Bullet For My Valentine mixed up as a bit // All controversy aside, the impact Trustkill had on heavy music is impossible to overstate // Don’t sleep on this discography
THE PLAYLIST: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5L1nC8ym5EblSNMamxY402?si=d4076fcd4a60429e
The Killer, Harms Way, and Weekend Nachos as first-rate bands // the legacy of Martin Crudos and Racetraitor // the current very good Mosh Moment and the concept of Hardcore Punk as a genre, a proper genre // Nick Acosta and New Morality Zine as the current power players // Bovice’s very good snare tone
THE PLAYLIST: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1sTHqqmzo8PelT4BVGPYKK?si=b511b3cb3ccf4ad6