New Tricks for Old Dogs: Cannabis For the Golden Years

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Wag Out Loud

Krista Karpowich

100 episodes

9 months ago

Hello This is Krista with Episode #189, the final episode of the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. And I just want to thank you for tuning in over the years and for wanting to be the best advocate for your dog's health and wellness. I have learned so much from all of my expert guests over the last five years and I hope that you have too many of you know that for the past year I've been working alongside Dr. Judy Morgan, as the Education and Development Team Lead for her Naturally Healthy Pets team. And Dr. Judy is America's best known natural pet advocate, and holistic veterinarian for over 38 years, and I help produce her podcast and manage her events and also manage her speaking engagements. Dr. Judy's experience includes holistic veterinarian, acupuncturist, chiropractor, food therapist, author and speaker. So if you don't currently follow her, you should! Follow Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets and continue your journey to learning more about how to keep your dog healthy and happy, naturally. And in the meantime, my Wag Out Loud website will remain up. So you can always listen to any of the podcast episodes. Check out my most trusted brands, most of them with discount codes. And check out the great information on the resources page. Again, thanks everybody for listening to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. And I hope that you enjoy this final episode. Take care dog lovers! Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Well, hello dog lovers and welcome to yet another Wag Out Loud episode. And this is actually going to be the last and final episode, where we have a chance to learn something new when it comes to Canine health. And I'm so excited for today's guest. We have Bill Booko ut here. And he's going to be covering the topic of will your dog benefit from supplements and the critical questions to ask when selecting products. Bill, thank you so much for being with us today. Krista, Thank you very much for the opportunity. I've been looking forward to this since we scheduled it. I’m sad that this is last podcast but I'm honored to be the final episode. So I really appreciate it. This is so fitting. Bill, I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself and share why did you start the NASC, the National Animal Supplement Council? THE START OF THE NASC Kind of an interesting story. I'll make it brief. I'm a business executive. So I was COO for a $500 million dollar medical device and drug company but I was raised in Wyoming and I had dogs my whole life. So I've been an animal lover. I had two black labs, Lancelot and Cinder and they both had health issues. Cinder had hip dysplasia. Lancelot had cancer. So in the mid 1990s, I had them both successfully treated, I made a career change. I got out of human medicine and I took a slot as CEO for the third largest specialty animal referral center in the US. When cancer came back the second time around on my own dog, Lancelot. He was an 11 and a half year old Labrador Retriever. And he was given a very poor prognosis. So I'm connected with all these high powered board certified oncologists. And you know, he's given three months with chemotherapy. And I'm just not going to do that on an 11 and a half year old dog, so I'm looking for help. So I find a veterinarian, formulated a product and changed his diet completely. And he lived two and a half years good quality of life, which wasn't long enough. But out of that experience, I decided, well, I'm going to start my own company selling supplements for animals. Well, I didn't realize that the regulatory environment for animal supplements was different than it is for human dietary supplements. I made a bad assumption. And in 2001, the industry was threatened with products being removed from the marketplace. So we started NASC with 18 companies with the intention of engaging the regulatory officials, meaning the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Veterinary medicine as well as state regulators to try to define, develop and implement a responsible path forward that would allow these beneficial products to remain on the market, provided companies act responsibly. So that's the foundation and the driving force behind founding NASC. Well, and we appreciate that. Because, you know, I have to let my listeners know, I don't know it all. I'm just a dog, mom. And I thought that the supplement industry, especially for animals is unregulated. And the wild wild west? And I am so glad to know that there is an organization looking out for our pets. And I was just astounded, yet happy to hear what your members of the NASC have to go through to get that accreditation. So why don't we start there with how did you come up with having supplement companies get the seal of approval? What do they have to do? WHAT DOES NASC MEMBERSHIP ENTAIL? It's really a two step process. First, you just can't pay your money and join NASC, you have to qualify for membership. So whether you go through the audit process or not, there's a code of conduct document that every single company and then we have 300 members now, 300 brands, every single company that joins NASC, has to have a direct interview, either with myself or Ryan Cargo, our Chief Operating Officer, to be sure that the company is willing to commit to our quality standards. they sign a written document, and they have to qualify for membership. To use the NASC seal, that's about a 120 day process. a lot of companies want to join NASC and use the seal right away. Well, if we just handed out the seal, the quality seal when companies you know join and you write us a check and it would have no meaning or value. So with the NASC audit program, companies have to pass a quality audit, similar to an FDA audit, that they demonstrate their labels are in compliance, their claims are in compliance with our guidelines. They have a written quality manual that ensures quality processes, whether they have products contract manufactured for them by someone else, or they they have those processes themselves. They enter products to our adverse event reporting database, which is the most advanced system of post market surveillance in the world, for these types of products, much more advanced than even the human dietary supplement industry. So those companies have to meet our requirements to be a member, but we verify those through an actual audit process. And once a company does that, then they can use the NASC seal, that’s good for two years. But again, you can't just join and use the seal. If there wasn't a pretty high hurdle to clear, then that seal would have no value. And, you know, a lot of people ask me why we've been successful at NASC. And, you know, I say, one word credibility, we walk our talk. And I don't mean to say that our members are perfect. Anybody can make a mistake. But, you know, we do have specific standards that we require members to follow. Well, and the in depth ingredient search and report that is involved, that alone is worth its weight in gold. Yeah, we've expanded our programs as this is our 22nd year. And we're the largest trade association in the world representing companies that sell products for dogs, cats and horses, you know, similar to human dietary supplements, but our programs have expanded where we now have quality, quality and qualification programs for raw materials, contract manufacturers, testing laboratories, because it seems intuitive, but people you know, kind of forget, one of the things they you know, you see a product on the shelf and quality is assumed and it shouldn't be. So I always say Trust, but verify. And we'll talk more about that in this podcast, I'm sure. If you don't start with quality raw materials, combined and manufactured with quality, repeatable processes, you're not going to have quality products at the end of that production cycle. So we cover all the way from raw material supplier qualification through our preferred supplier program, contract manufacturing companies all the way through finished products. we do independent product testing also, we'll go out as an organization couple times a year, and we'll buy products from the marketplace. And we'll test to make sure that companies meet label claim. If they don't, then we require written corrective action and investigation, if they’re outside of allowable limits or analytical laboratory variation. And what if a company changes their formulation in any way? Do they have to start over again? CHANGE IN FORMULATION Yeah, good question. Products are entered in our database. And every ingredient in the product is entered in and that product is finalized and locked, the company has to sign it off and lock the product. So that product in our database cannot be changed. Now, if a formulation does change, they can enter a new product, or we won’t modify that product because that would compromise the integrity and the traceability of the products that were manufactured previous to the formulation change. But that can be updated by like a red one SKU in our database. So every individual product and individual formulation can be tracked by lot number, and that really protects the company, you know, if they ever did have a problem, or an issue that was unforeseen? You know, we could recognize that act upon that quickly, you know, if needed, and again, in the interest of ensuring that we have quality products in the marketplace. And do you guys put any emphasis on companies that have done clinical trials or studies? STUDIES AND TRIALS Certainly, clinical trials and studies are important. And we encourage people to contact a company look for research? A couple issues with research. So Krista, let me give you a direct short answer to your question. We don't evaluate the efficacy of products, right? There would be legal liability associated with that. And if we did, if we evaluated safety and efficacy, then we'd be the FDA. And that's what the Food and Drug Administration does. So we don't evaluate whether or not the product works, or does the company have clinical research? However, in commenting on clinical research, a lot of people especially veterinarians say, You know what, I'm not going to buy a product until I see research. There's a couple of issues with research, I think the right question is, why isn't there more research for natural products? Two answers to that, number one, natural substances cannot be protected via intellectual property or patents. So if a company introduces, you know, conducts research, and I'll give you an example, we just conducted as an organization, a safety study for CCD, three different types of CBD in dogs, the cost of that study was $475,000, for just safety. So there's no way to recoup the investment, because you can't patent protect the formulations in most cases. So some other company can go out, copy of formulation, sell it cheaper, and no way for the company to recoup the investment. That's answer number one, or part one of the answer. Part Two, the answer is, if you have a product that shows that the product would be beneficial for a chronic disease process, companies are limited on the claims that they can make if they don't go through the drug approval process with FDA. And that's a very expensive and lengthy process, meaning millions of dollars and years, at least five years to get through the new animal drug approval process. So that's why drug companies have formulations or substances that they can protect with patents, and recoup the very costly investment that it takes to go through the new animal drug approval process. So that's kind of a long winded answer to a short question, which is, how do we view research? And do we encourage research? The answer is yes, we encourage research. But there are limitations in this particular area, just because the cost to reach it. That all makes sense. Thank you for breaking that down. Appreciate it. Well, before we go on our break, I guess I wanted to ask, since it's called the National Animal Supplement Council, are you only taking companies that are manufacturing here in the US? ONLY US COMPANIES? Yeah, the answer is the answer is no. When we started NASC, that's where we started because that's where the issue was burning. The hottest and brightest was products were being limited, in fact being removed from the marketplace in the United States. So we started as in the National Animal Supplement Council, but we really have evolved into you know, we're more of a global organization, we participated in the veterinary natural health products program and helped define the path forward in Canada. And we're recognized in in some other countries, countries internationally with the NASC seal and our quality program. So we've become more globally focused over time. But we started out focused in the US. got it. Okay. Well, we are going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Bill is going to unpack his motto trust but verify, and how we can know that we're getting a good product when we are looking for products for our dogs. So everybody sit tight, and we'll be right back. SPONSOR AD Thanks to Dog Love essential oils for sponsoring this episode. They say it comes in many forms. And in this case, love comes in a bottle. Our canine companions are more than just pets. They're cherished family members. So whether you have a sprightly pup, a wise old sage or a beloved friend of any age, Dog Love Oils help to enhance your pups wellbeing, and happiness. Are you tired of using chemical laden products on your precious pup? Well, Dog Love Oils has you covered. Whether it's soothing your dogs hotspots, protecting them from pesky fleas and ticks, aiding digestion, relieving sore joints, or simply promoting overall wellness, Dog Love Oils has crafted top quality natural solutions for you. What makes these elixirs stand out? Well, it's all about quality and Dog Love Oils uses only the finest pure therapeutic grade essential oils, ensuring safety and effectiveness for both dogs and their human companions. And rest assured that all Dog Love Oils are blended with natural ingredients and expertly diluted and tested to be dog safe. Show your love by going to https://www.dogloveoils.com/ today and explore their wide range of products designed to boost your best friend's well being. And here's a special treat during the entire month of December, enjoy a generous 15% off every order of $25 or more by using the code WAGOUTLOUD . Dog Love Oils… love in a bottle. And we are back and I'm having a fascinating conversation with Bill Bookout from the National Animal Supplement Council. And Bill you mentioned in the first half that your motto is trust but verify. Can you unpack that a little bit? TRUST, BUT VERIFY Yes, I think, again, as we talked about in, you know, before the break, people see a product on the shelf and quality is assumed and I don't think it should be. trust but verify. You know, people should not be afraid to pick up the phone and call the company and ask some questions. Ask how long has the company been in business? Ask who formulated the product? And what's their background? You know, do they have expertise in these areas? Who can I call if I have a question? You know, are they credible? You know, Can I can I get help? There's a couple red flags that I always tell people to look for. And you can take these to the bank. Companies that make claims that sound too good to be true, probably are. And cheap products are cheap for a reason. So if you see two different products, and they look the same formulation wise and one of them cost significantly less than the other stop and ask yourself why. quality costs money. Now, why is that important? Because this is a consumable product. And there are no magic bullets out there. Right? So even if you have a supplement that you hope that your dog or cat will benefit from. It's not a magic bullet. Right. It's a component of a comprehensive health and wellness program. But the important point for supplements are, quality means consistency. And if your dog or cat is going to respond positively to that product. It needs to be produced consistently. So you have the same product this week, next week, next month, next year, so that you maximize the probability that you're going to get a positive response for the animal And that centers around quality and process control. So that's why trust but verify quality is always important. Now, we all lead busy lives, right? And I will also suggest that people, you know, access to information on the internet, we live in the information age, right? We get information from all kinds of different places. And it's easy to get right. So be careful what you read, be careful who you believe, trust but verify. And, you know, we hope that companies or consumers, pet owners will look for NASC audited member products, because again, as I mentioned earlier, that doesn't mean they're perfect, but it does mean somebody's been there and checked them out. Right. So I think you want to maximize the probability that your dog or cat who is really your extended family member is going to benefit from the products and you want to buy a quality product, because if they're going to respond, it really centers around quality and consistency. I'm glad you mentioned that it all does make a lot of sense that cheaper does not mean better. And that we do have to ask questions and not be afraid to dig a little deeper into the companies and the ingredients and the sourcing and where do they manufacture? How do they manufacture? So I know when we originally met, which was a long time ago, you said that there was an instance when you had to cancel a member? Can you share what happened there? MEMBERS NOT BEING COMPLIANT We did. Yeah, without mentioning any names. We had a longtime audited member company, that we you know, we pick up products and we test for label claims. And we had a company come in at 78% of label claim for one of the ingredients in their product. Well, when that happens, that's you know, there's obviously an issue. So we require written investigation and corrective action so that the company can determine what made that happen. Well, we sent a note to the company and said, Hey, we bought this product, here's where we bought it from, here's the test results. We tested this particular laboratory, we're completely transparent in that. And we said you're 78% of label claim, you need to find out why this happened and respond to us on what your findings are and what you're going to do. What are you going to do so this doesn't happen again. And the company responded back to us and said, We're not going to do that. We think you're getting too deep in our business, and we're not going to respond to you. We canceled their membership that day. Good for you. So, I mean, if we don't walk our talk, then again, as I mentioned earlier, if you ask me, What's the one single word that best describes the success of NASC credibility, right? If we don't have credibility with the regulatory agencies, and ultimately with the consumers in the marketplace, retailers, consumers, then we don't have a good foundation to stand on. So quality is very important to us. That's what happened. And we're very serious about what we do. Well, I appreciate that, that shows integrity and transparency. And I mean, you are regulating, which is what we need. And speaking of which, you should be very proud of 300 members. But when we look at the entire landscape of animal supplements, there are I can't even imagine hundreds of 1000s of brands, why aren't more wanting to be a part of the NASC? So by consumer spending, we estimate that we represent about 80 to 85% of the industry. The industry, rightly or wrongly, is a fairly low barriers to entry industry. Meaning that, you know, Krista and Bill can decide they want to start an animal supplement company, and if we can get it up off the ground, then we can certainly do that. But we estimate that we represent about 80 and 85% of the industry by consumer spending or products that consumers purchase. So we represent the majority of the industry. But that's why I say Trust, but verify, you know, look at the company, see how long they've been in business, check out their background, don't hesitate to do a little due diligence before making the selection. Now, if you see a company with the NASC quality seal again, that means they're not only a member agree to abide by our guidelines in terms of the Code of Conduct, we bought it at them and we verified that. So we hope the consumer because we all lead busy lives, you know, would look for the NASC quality seal and and give that weight. Our ultimate goal is we want to NASC quality seal to be in the top three factors of why someone selects a product that they would use for their furry family member. And do you ever seek out members? Or do they come to you? HOW NASC FINDS MEMBERS most of the time members come to us. At some of the major trade shows like Global Pet Expo or Super Zoo, there's a couple of major veterinary shows, you know, we attend those shows, we usually have a booth and, you know, I'll cruise around if I if I see a company, or what its really turned into Krista is more of a self policing industry. So when you have the majority of the industry, following requirements and quality standards, if somebody is outside of those boundaries, and you know, really, you know, making claims they shouldn't make, for example, they're out there purveying products, and they say they're going to cure everything from parvo to cancer. A lot of times people don't realize they're making a mistake. I didn't when I first got in the business. So I'll call companies up if they're brought to my attention, or if I see them somewhere. And I'll try to help them. we operate with with the philosophy here that a rising tide floats all boats. So, you know, sometimes companies just don't know that they're making a mistake. And I'll try to give them the information because it doesn't do the industry any good for us to sit back and let a company make a mistake. Because bad news sells. And we all get painted with a broad brush wrongly a lot of times. But nevertheless, that's what happens. And so we do both, most of the times companies come to us, one of the buyers on the retail side. Now we've been around long enough and we have credibility, you know that the buyers will require companies to belong to NASC. Because again, they want to maximize, this is a consumable sale, they want to maximize the probability that a pet owner is going to return to their location, wherever that purchase location is, they're going to buy that product again, they're going to leverage that visit, they’ll buy other things because it increases trust with the retailer that recommends or offers a product for sale. And they'll tell their friends and create a new stream of business. So there's a lot of business benefits. And so we get a lot of a lot of companies through retail channels as well, because we you know, again, we help the retailers maximize, maximize their revenue which at the end of the day. You know, that's what that's what keeps them in business. Well, I have to say, in the almost five years that I've been doing this show, you know, I've learned how to ask the questions and what to look for. But I think a lot of these companies, unfortunately, they're playing on our emotions, because we're talking about, as you mentioned, extended family. These dogs are part of our family, and cats. So when we're buying these supplements, and we don't see a difference, in whatever we're trying to address, I know that I've had supplement graveyards, I've spent so much money, it seems like I'm throwing stuff at the wall, there has to be something that works for my dog. So for the NASC seal for you guys to do the steps and go above and beyond what research and homework I could do on a brand or product. I think that just speaks so highly of what you're doing. We try to make it easier, right? Because again, we all lead busy lives. So we try to make it easier. And again, I don't claim that all of our members are perfect. They're not. But we want people to have a higher degree of confidence that if they select an audited NASC member company’s product, that that company is a solid company and they're going to maximize the probability of success, which how does that translate? We really want our dogs and cats. We want the same things for our dogs and cats we want for ourselves. If you stop and think about that, we want to live a long, happy, healthy life to the maximum degree possible, right? Well, here's the irony. This might be a total rabbit hole. I do believe if we feed our pets, a species appropriate diet. And I am one and everybody knows that for fresh and or raw feeding versus a highly processed food with synthetic vitamins and minerals. They can't be getting the nutrition that they need. So therefore you do need to supplement and that's where I just I don't understand why many of us don't want to give the proper nutrition to our animals and give them less supplementation. What are your thoughts on that? WHY NOT BETTER NUTRITION FOR LESS SUPPLEMENTATION? Very insightful and you're dead on I mean, you hit the nail on the head. If people think about it this way, this thing that we call health and wellness, whether it's for ourselves or our animals, it's a three dimensional sphere. A spherical object, three dimensional, good diet, exercise, home environment, fresh water, routine veterinary care, and checkups, just like routine, you know, you know, physicals and checkups every year. That's right. Supplements are a component of that. But you're right. A lot of people don't know, your gastrointestinal tract is the largest immune supporting organ in your body, person or animal. And quality food quality diet, strong and healthy immune system, those are really you know, so probiotics can can play a role in that. So probiotics are the good bacteria, you know, that fight off the bad bacteria in the GI tract that helps metabolize nutrients and maintain strong and healthy immune system. But probiotics are subject to. The two enemies of probiotics are heat and moisture. And so you don't see probiotics in pet food because they're heated to kill off salmonella in a kill step. So probiotics is one example of a supplement that can be very beneficial for long term health and wellness. Now, you might not see an immediate effect from probiotics, like you would on maybe a joint product if your dog's limping from old age or something like that. But you really hit a very key point, good nutrition, clean water, exercise, loving home environment. Supplements as a component are really, really important. So it's three dimensional. Oh, thank you for clarifying that. That's, that's so powerful that we give them all around whole body wellness physically and mentally. Well, Bill, we are running out of time. But before we go, I want to ask you two things. First of all, what is the difference between a health versus a nutritional supplement? HEALTH VS NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS Very good question. So a health supplement would be for a non nutritional benefit. ingredients that would not provide nutrients that are required in a complete and balanced diet. What are some examples? Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, tumeric, curcumin, coenzyme Q 10. lutein, there's no scientifically substantiated daily nutritional requirements for those ingredients yet, products with some of those can be targeted for specific health benefits, right? Joint Health, eye health, cardiovascular health, liver and kidney health, gastrointestinal health, immune health, things like that. It could be when times of stress, right? older, older animals just like older people, you know, they don't get around as well so great products or B category. Those would be on the health supplement side. nutritional supplements would provide nutrients as a component of a complete and balanced diet, maybe probiotics, vitamins, minerals, things that, you know, you may as you said earlier, dog food companies are required to provide nutritionally complete diets. But typically, the more you spend the better quality for pet food you're going to get. And if people are willing to you know, go for, you know, raw diet, frozen diet, home prepared diet, you know, look at that, but, you know, some nutritional supplements would be provide components of a complete and balanced diet. There's some up and coming products that are completers, right, you take a protein source, and then you have a supplement that would have the other nutrients that you add to your own protein source. That would make a complete balanced diet. So does that help clarify that? Thank you. That's That's great. Well, they'll as we are wrapping up, what would you like to leave us with today? Well, Bill, I really appreciate the opportunity Krista, I'm very sorry that this is your last episode, but again, I'm honored to be selected to contribute. I guess I'd leave you with my contact information. If people have a question and they hear this podcast don't hesitate to reach out to me because you can get a hold of me. You know, www.animalsupplements.org is our website. My email address is b.bookout@NASC.cc Shoot me a note, don't hesitate to pick up the phone, give me a call, check out our website and look for the NASC seal. And, you know, long, happy, healthy life to everybody on the podcast. I really appreciate you listening. Thank you, Bill. And I will have all of these links in the show notes. OFFER: And Bill is giving a great offer. He is offering up a free copy of the NASC Pocket Guide to dog and cat health. And there's a form on their website, and I have the link again, it's going to be in the show notes. All you have to do is click on it and you'll have access to that NASC Pocket Guide to dog and cat health. Bill, I can't thank you enough. And I'm so glad that you reached out to me those months and months ago and set me straight that there is regulation. And we need more of that in the entire industry, not just in the supplement division. So I want to thank you for starting this amazing organization, and for being on here today. And I want to thank all of the listeners for wanting to do better and to advocate for their dog's health. So Bill, thank you so much. I appreciate you. Thank you very much. It's an honor. Thanks again to Dog Love Oils for sponsoring this episode and for their unwavering dedication to our beloved canine companions. Save 15% off any of their exceptional products during the month of December 2023. By using code WAGOUTLOUD on your purchase of $25 or more. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

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New Tricks for Old Dogs: Cannabis For the Golden Years

Wag Out Loud

31 minutes 22 seconds

2 years ago

New Tricks for Old Dogs: Cannabis For the Golden Years

Hi everyone. This is Krista with Episode #179 On the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Have you checked out all of the amazing trusted brands that I highly recommend? These are products that I have researched. And I've tried that I know, like and trust. Products that'll help your dog to thrive. So just go to wagoutloud.com and check out the trusted brands section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? And don't forget to also check out the resources page as well. It's filled with some very important info for both you and your dog. How a dog reacts to dairy products depends on how much lactose is in the food. So the higher the amount of lactose, the greater the risk of digestive upset. So if your dog has issues with dairy from cow's milk, maybe try giving them products made from goat milk, which is more digestible and lacks the complex proteins that are often associated with allergies. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Hello dog lovers, and thank you for joining Sandi Krucik-vanBommel and I today as we discuss the topic of new tricks for old dogs: cannabis for the golden years. Sandi, welcome to the show. Thank you, Krista. So glad to be here. Well, I'm excited to have you because I know that we have a lot to learn. So why don't you first introduce yourself and share what led you to become a veterinary cannabis counselor? Well, I'd love to share my story that, unfortunately, started out to be quite tragic, but ended up with a gift. So my family and I were in a high speed collision in 2019. And when I say my family, that included all of our dogs, and one of our senior girls, had sustained some injuries that unfortunately, couldn't be treated with conventional medicine. And my veterinarian who is very alternative had suggested that we try CBD. And in doing so, I started my journey on trying to find a product and dosing and navigating through the space at the time. And I felt very overwhelmed. And it wasn't an easy process. And so I thought as a veterinary professional and being in this world, if I'm feeling overwhelmed, I can't imagine how pet parents must be feeling. And so that led me to finding a way to be certified as a veterinary cannabis counselor. Okay. Well, I was surprised to read that roughly 50% of dog owners in the US actually give their dogs CBD. I thought that would be lower. But I'm pretty encouraged about that. But of course, you and I both know, that doesn't mean that they are all giving the highest quality, correct dosage, you know, all of the above. So, before we dive into cannabis for our senior dogs, can you explain what exactly is the endocannabinoid system? Because to me, it kind of was more prevalent on the scene maybe five to seven years ago. So what is it and what functions of the body does it actually regulate? What is the Endocannabinoid System? Yes, they're actually right on on target in the sense that the endocannabinoid system or the endogenous cannabinoid system has been really gaining some traction in research and discovering it's importance. So we just call it the ECS system for short, but all mammals and that includes us have this internal regulatory system that produces molecules whose functions are to bring balance within the body's internal environment, and we call that homeostasis. So think of it as an internal regulatory system that helps along with so many processes in the body. So we know that the ECS system is always functioning in the background. Because of that, it is responsible for many processes, such as mood, pain, memory, stress, digestion, sleep. So, you know, those are just a few selections. But as you can see with there being so many that does translate to how marketing does possess cannabis or CBD, as most people know, it is so beneficial for so many medical conditions and health conditions. Right. Well, speaking of which, when your clients come to you, with their senior dogs, what would you say, are the issues that can be treated with CBD. What Can Cannabis Treat in Our Older Dogs? I would say I have about three to four, the first one being osteoarthritis being rooted in pain and inflammation. And most of the time, you know, our, our pet parents don't want to see their their dogs in pain, they see them starting to slow down not being able to do things that they used to do. And so in that is always rooted pain and inflammation like osteoarthritis. So we are able to again, modulate the responses that our pets have as a result of influencing with cannabis products in taking down that inflammation, and then as we see their pain improve, and of course, then their mobility improves. The second one I see is what we know as canine cognitive dysfunction. And so think of that as like our doggy Alzheimer's or dementia. Changes that are relating to changing the brain and aging and the cells dying. And we also get beta amyloid proteins building up which interferes with some of the nerve function. So when that happens, we see these behavior changes start to manifest. And as such, the dog might be pacing, or up all night, sleeping all day, being disoriented, having vocalization during the night. So these are all things that really can start to see improvement with using cannabis. And we see that happening as a result of these changes that are happening internally that then can be showing us their ways externally. And then the last or second to last would be just the anxiety that happens with those cognitive changes. So you know, as you have eluded to when we start to see some of the dogs maybe not seeing as well, or where we see them not hearing as well, that brings them anxiety to not be able to take in their world as they normally would. And so then we start to be able to use cannabis for ways of modifying the anxiety. And then of course, lastly was the some of those immune modulated diseases like the big C and the pain that's associated with it as well. And you were talking about cognitive issues. Have you seen any studies on sundowners syndrome? CBD for Sundowner’s? Yes. And I have had several clients come to me with their dogs that have sundowner’s. And we've had some remarkable results. These are dogs that go from not sleeping at all during the night, or very little, as well as a lot of vocalization, restlessness, distress, and going to now where they are sleeping through the night, where they are more settled. And it really does turn things around for the entire family because when the pets aren't sleeping, usually the pet parents aren't sleeping either. And so it really brings back that quality of life for the family, not just for the pets themselves. Absolutely. Well, I know we're focusing on our older dogs in this segment, but would you recommend CBD also earlier in life as a preventative, and if so, what is a good age to start? CBD As a Preventative? I haven't really experienced that in anecdotal results or in studies. As I've been going through this process of, of helping pet parents. If we have an endocannabinoid system that is working well, and it's efficient and it is performing as it should be, we really should have our body be well balanced. It's really only needing to supplement in with our phyto cannabinoids, our plant based cannabinoids that need to be intersecting to some of the pieces where we start to see that balance be out of disease what I would call it, Disease but not necessarily a disease process. So essentially, when we have those medical conditions start to manifest symptoms, then that tells us it may be time to intervene with cannabis. Right. Well, you brought up a good point you mentioned cannabinoids. And I personally hear some different terms in this industry. And I was hoping you could set me and maybe others straight. So what is the difference between cannabinoids, flavonoids, and terpenes? What do each of those terms mean? What is the difference between cannabinoids, flavonoids, and terpenes? We could start with the term cannabinoids. Those are the molecular compounds that are naturally occurring in the cannabis plant. They live in what are known as the trichomes of the plants. And we call them phyto cannabinoids because they come from plants or plant derived. And so we know that they really are more than 100 compounds that have been discovered now in the cannabis plant. So there's a lot more research to come. And they each bring therapeutic value. The next would be our flavonoids, these are phytonutrients that not only do they bring flavor, and the way we experience the plants, through our senses, but they also act as a defense mechanism for the plants. So essentially protecting bacteria, insects and reproduce their their aroma, so that you know they too have therapeutic properties. And then that brings us to our terpenes I like to assimilate terpenes like essential oils of the plant. So for example, when we speak of lavender plants, we know they have a distinctive smell, and to that are there relaxation and calming properties. And that is coming from the specific terpene Linalool. And so Linalool is actually one of the terpenes that can also be in cannabis plants. And so they give that distinctive aroma. They do have some flavor components as well. But again, additional therapeutic potential. So when we combine all of these three components in a product, for example, we then have what is called the entourage effect. And the way I like to produce an analogy to understanding that is thinking of many hands make for light work. So in the example of making chicken soup, you can have chicken and noodles, herbs, vegetables, chicken broth. You let that simmer for a while. And it brings you all of the values all of the components to that soup. And high nutritional value as opposed to just making a chicken soup with chicken and chicken stock. So when you bring those all together, you get the best nutritional value. Just like where you bring them all together in a cannabis product. You bring forward the best therapeutic potential. Well said, Oh my gosh, that makes so much sense now. Thank you. You're welcome. Well, Sandi we are at a point where we are going to take a quick sponsor break. So let us take this onward when we get right back hold on everybody. I want to thank my friends at Green and Experience for being our monthly sponsor. Did you know that many of the most popular dog toys contain dyes, preservatives and chemical residues that are toxic? Testing has also revealed heavy metals, along with hormone-disrupting chemicals, carcinogens and neurological poisons. But now you can give your dog an organic, plant based, zero waste dog toy! I want to introduce you to non-toxic fetch balls. They look like tennis balls, but these are chemical free, wool free and synthetic free! Made with organic bamboo fibers and organic natural rubber, these fetch balls are gentler on teeth, fun AND healthy! Fetch your dog this non-toxic toy by going to Etsy.com and put GreenandExperience in the search bar. You can also find the link in the show notes. Choose from a set of two or three fetch balls and save by using the code WOL15 at checkout for a 15% discount. A better dog toy plus you’re giving back because $1 from each purchase is donated to the St. Hubert’s dog shelter in Madison, NJ. Also, if you purchase two or more fetch balls and yours is one of the first 100 orders, you will also receive a FREE encapsulated dog tag valued at $15. How awesome it that? And we're back speaking with Sandi and she's giving us so much great information on how to treat our senior dogs with cannabis. So Sandi, you just explained cannabinoids, flavonoids and terpenes. Thank you for that great explanation. When we're talking about our senior dogs. One of the issues that I think of is incontinence. And I know this is a great example of why we have to be so careful with dosing. Because if they're given too much CBD their incontinence episodes could actually worsen. Can you tell us how you actually dose your different patients and clients and how, what factors do you even take into account? Dosing This is a really important point that you bring forward, Krista, because cannabis dosing is so much different than our pharmaceutical. It's not as if we're giving, for example, you know, one table twice a day like we would be directed for a pharmaceutical. Cannabis response. If you really unique to each individual, whether it be a human or a pet, it really comes down to that endocannabinoid system response. And we know that it is so unique to each individual. So for example, you and I could be on the same product for even the same medical condition. And we will seem to be on two very different doses based on our unique ECS system. So where I help pet parents move through that dosing parameter, to really stay together for a three month time frame so that we can essentially find what I call that sweet spot for best therapeutic potential. So that we can start low, go slow and work them up through monitoring and having them track responses, how their pet is responding and able to get right to where we need to be for dosing. Okay, one thing I have a question about, because I've heard as far as how you should give, you know, what, what way is the best way to give CBD to your dog so that it's bioavailable. So I've heard Yes, you can put it in the food. But maybe they don't get as many of the benefits as if you apply it directly to their gums, but they don't really like that either. So what is your suggestion on how to actually give CBD to our dogs. Best Way to Administer When I'm working with pet parents, I have this discussion with them to understand how they feel they would get the best compliance from their pet. So it really is a unique way to administer the cannabis, whether it be directly in the mouth or given with Food. We do know however, that cannabis is better absorbed when there is food in the stomach. So for example, may that be that we put a small segment of foods with the cannabis and offer it to the pet versus just directly onto the mucosa is really an individual process. But what we don't want to do is put that oil into their regular food, into their regular meal. Because some pets don't particularly love the smell or the taste. And then we start running into food aversion issues. And we don't ever want that to be, you know, a place where the pet doesn't want to eat. So essentially, meaning just taking and portioning out part of their meal to allow them to have it separately, giving it on a treat. giving it with something that they really like. Or if a pet is very compliant. Of course you can give it directly into the mouth as well. All right, good advice and Sandi are there. I know there's lots of studies. And we're learning every single day on the benefits of cannabis. But are there any studies that you would like to just mention on the benefits? Studies? Well, to be honest, you know, there are just so many studies ongoing now. And that's the beauty of this industry is that it is gaining a lot, a lot more momentum. And so we have recent studies that talk about dosing that talk about responses, and ways they are now being studied. Versus just anecdotal responses. This is really how this whole process usually starts with research is anecdotal stories and responses. And so it is almost difficult to keep up on the research, because there is so much going on now, but in a good way, in that we're really discovering, and so what are buying some of the things that we already knew? That's great. And in addition, so we are focusing, obviously, on senior dogs, but all of this really applies to all dogs. So we went over arthritis issues, meaning joint inflammation, pain, you talked about anxiety. But there are other benefits, like improving digestion and reducing GI distress. How would CBD help in those areas? Other Benefits There are two ways that it really does modulate and that is improving not only the physiology, but also the function of the GI tract. So for example, coming back to some of the properties of those cannabinoids and as well with the terpenes. We have anti inflammatory responses that happen when we activate the receptors and their enzymes. And these are also present in the digestive tract. So it acts to help with motility, protecting the gastric mucosa, inhibiting some of the gastric secretions. But, you know, a lot of times with long term use of NSAIDs, non steroidal anti inflammatories, we do have mucosal damage that is occurring. And so by using cannabis, we can start to improve some of that physiology by coming back to the digestive tract healing and protecting with gastric mucosal secretions. So it means that we're again coming back to the root. And we're essentially able to not just put a bandaid on but change some of that physiology and the functioning so that we can get improved responses. Nice. And did I read that CBD also minimizes nausea, and it also helps stimulate appetite. Yeah, that's right. And so that a lot comes from where we see some of the receptors that are in the brain in the central nervous system that also do influence some of the again naturally occurring cannabinoids such as anandamide, that, now we see elevation of that, cannabinoid, we see that this is known as the bliss molecule. So we see some of these changes happening where we have more serotonin produced. And we get to see these responses, changing the way that we have the pet parents responding with, as you say appetite, or how they are processing and feeling. And on top of it, I know it helps us and dogs sleep better. So it's pretty amazing. Like a miracle plant, the miracle plant. And are there any side effects at all to CBD? Side Effects? Well, we do have conditions. so things like where we have cardiac disease or we have impaired liver function. We do have to be cautionary in those circumstances. And again, another reason for proper product selection, starting with a lower dose, but also, sometimes it is the carrier oils that can cause some side effects. So commonly we see vomiting and diarrhea. Essentially, it's not the cannabis that’s causing those, those side effects. It’s more The carrier oils that the cannabis is formulated with. And then as well, sometimes when pet parents are using higher dosages, we can also see some side effects as well Okay. And really quickly since we're about to wrap up, when we are looking at selecting the best CBD oil for our dogs, what exactly should we consider? How to Shop for CBD The importance is to be, of course, mindful of looking into that product a little deeper, where you want to know if they do third party lab testing for safety measures to know exactly what is in that product. Also to be doing that they produce what's called a Certificate of Analysis, which gives us all of those results. Transparency is very important. And of course, the source of where their ingredients come from. Essentially, organic is primary, but always looking at those ingredients are very, very important. And then knowing exactly how that product has been processed, because there are different options of processing, and we want to be sure that it's something that is safe for the pet Okay, all good suggestions. Well, Sandi, I know that you wanted to make an offer to the listeners. So why don’t you tell them about it. OFFER I would be happy to offer the listeners a complimentary initial assessment where we can dive a little deeper into their questions that they may have about their specific pet and any medical conditions that they may be questioning about whether cannabis is appropriate. And to this if they have curiosity questions if they want to learn more about cannabis and how they can use it for their pets, and I'm happy to offer a complimentary Zoom discussion together. That is amazing. Well, thank you for that. Sandi. I will put the link all of your links in the show notes so that people have direct access. So Sandi, where can everyone find out more information about you and your company Inspired Pet Wellness? Yes, so my website is inspiredpetwellness.com. And my email address is happytohelp@inspiredpetwellness.com. And, again, I would be happy to connect with any questions that they may have. Instagram: @inspiredpetwellness LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandi-krucik-van-bommel-rvt-84a45b210 Wow. Thank you, Sandi. Well, as we sign off today, do you have any parting words for us? From my experience, I would just like to offer the opportunity for pet parents to become cannabis curious. We do know that from the recreational market, there have been a lot of stereotypes, but to understand that it does have this whole other perspective of how it can be therapeutic, how it can be such an impressive plant to to help you through a lot of issues that we see in our senior pets and just to be cherishing, those those golden years but knowing that there are opportunities for other options and ways that they can help enjoy their pets even longer. I love it. Well, one thing we didn't cover, not only can you take CBD internally, but it also works topically as well. And I would imagine, especially for our older guys that have lumps and bumps that might come in handy as well. 100%. And often what I do is I will combine both applications. So the pet may be taking the products orally but at the same time we're using it topically as well. Miracle plant. Absolutely. Well, Sandi, thank you so much for being here today. And hopefully a lot of our listeners will take you up on your very generous offer for the free consults. So I want to thank you for being here. And thank you listeners for wanting to do better for your dogs. We'll catch you next time. I want to again thank the team at Green and Experience for not only being our monthly sponsor, but for also creating the amazing plant-based fetch ball, a safe and natural toy that I feel good about giving to my dog Winston. Check out their online store by going to Etsy.com and put GreenandExperience in the search bar. You can also find the direct link in the show notes. Choose from a set of two or three fetch balls and save by using the code WOL15 at checkout for a 15% discount. Also, if you purchase two or more fetch balls and yours is one of the first 100 orders, you will also receive a FREE encapsulated dog tag valued at $15. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

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