Canine Massage: It's Not Just a Spa Day

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Wag Out Loud

Krista Karpowich

100 episodes

9 months ago

Hello This is Krista with Episode #189, the final episode of the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. And I just want to thank you for tuning in over the years and for wanting to be the best advocate for your dog's health and wellness. I have learned so much from all of my expert guests over the last five years and I hope that you have too many of you know that for the past year I've been working alongside Dr. Judy Morgan, as the Education and Development Team Lead for her Naturally Healthy Pets team. And Dr. Judy is America's best known natural pet advocate, and holistic veterinarian for over 38 years, and I help produce her podcast and manage her events and also manage her speaking engagements. Dr. Judy's experience includes holistic veterinarian, acupuncturist, chiropractor, food therapist, author and speaker. So if you don't currently follow her, you should! Follow Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets and continue your journey to learning more about how to keep your dog healthy and happy, naturally. And in the meantime, my Wag Out Loud website will remain up. So you can always listen to any of the podcast episodes. Check out my most trusted brands, most of them with discount codes. And check out the great information on the resources page. Again, thanks everybody for listening to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. And I hope that you enjoy this final episode. Take care dog lovers! Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Well, hello dog lovers and welcome to yet another Wag Out Loud episode. And this is actually going to be the last and final episode, where we have a chance to learn something new when it comes to Canine health. And I'm so excited for today's guest. We have Bill Booko ut here. And he's going to be covering the topic of will your dog benefit from supplements and the critical questions to ask when selecting products. Bill, thank you so much for being with us today. Krista, Thank you very much for the opportunity. I've been looking forward to this since we scheduled it. I’m sad that this is last podcast but I'm honored to be the final episode. So I really appreciate it. This is so fitting. Bill, I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself and share why did you start the NASC, the National Animal Supplement Council? THE START OF THE NASC Kind of an interesting story. I'll make it brief. I'm a business executive. So I was COO for a $500 million dollar medical device and drug company but I was raised in Wyoming and I had dogs my whole life. So I've been an animal lover. I had two black labs, Lancelot and Cinder and they both had health issues. Cinder had hip dysplasia. Lancelot had cancer. So in the mid 1990s, I had them both successfully treated, I made a career change. I got out of human medicine and I took a slot as CEO for the third largest specialty animal referral center in the US. When cancer came back the second time around on my own dog, Lancelot. He was an 11 and a half year old Labrador Retriever. And he was given a very poor prognosis. So I'm connected with all these high powered board certified oncologists. And you know, he's given three months with chemotherapy. And I'm just not going to do that on an 11 and a half year old dog, so I'm looking for help. So I find a veterinarian, formulated a product and changed his diet completely. And he lived two and a half years good quality of life, which wasn't long enough. But out of that experience, I decided, well, I'm going to start my own company selling supplements for animals. Well, I didn't realize that the regulatory environment for animal supplements was different than it is for human dietary supplements. I made a bad assumption. And in 2001, the industry was threatened with products being removed from the marketplace. So we started NASC with 18 companies with the intention of engaging the regulatory officials, meaning the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Veterinary medicine as well as state regulators to try to define, develop and implement a responsible path forward that would allow these beneficial products to remain on the market, provided companies act responsibly. So that's the foundation and the driving force behind founding NASC. Well, and we appreciate that. Because, you know, I have to let my listeners know, I don't know it all. I'm just a dog, mom. And I thought that the supplement industry, especially for animals is unregulated. And the wild wild west? And I am so glad to know that there is an organization looking out for our pets. And I was just astounded, yet happy to hear what your members of the NASC have to go through to get that accreditation. So why don't we start there with how did you come up with having supplement companies get the seal of approval? What do they have to do? WHAT DOES NASC MEMBERSHIP ENTAIL? It's really a two step process. First, you just can't pay your money and join NASC, you have to qualify for membership. So whether you go through the audit process or not, there's a code of conduct document that every single company and then we have 300 members now, 300 brands, every single company that joins NASC, has to have a direct interview, either with myself or Ryan Cargo, our Chief Operating Officer, to be sure that the company is willing to commit to our quality standards. they sign a written document, and they have to qualify for membership. To use the NASC seal, that's about a 120 day process. a lot of companies want to join NASC and use the seal right away. Well, if we just handed out the seal, the quality seal when companies you know join and you write us a check and it would have no meaning or value. So with the NASC audit program, companies have to pass a quality audit, similar to an FDA audit, that they demonstrate their labels are in compliance, their claims are in compliance with our guidelines. They have a written quality manual that ensures quality processes, whether they have products contract manufactured for them by someone else, or they they have those processes themselves. They enter products to our adverse event reporting database, which is the most advanced system of post market surveillance in the world, for these types of products, much more advanced than even the human dietary supplement industry. So those companies have to meet our requirements to be a member, but we verify those through an actual audit process. And once a company does that, then they can use the NASC seal, that’s good for two years. But again, you can't just join and use the seal. If there wasn't a pretty high hurdle to clear, then that seal would have no value. And, you know, a lot of people ask me why we've been successful at NASC. And, you know, I say, one word credibility, we walk our talk. And I don't mean to say that our members are perfect. Anybody can make a mistake. But, you know, we do have specific standards that we require members to follow. Well, and the in depth ingredient search and report that is involved, that alone is worth its weight in gold. Yeah, we've expanded our programs as this is our 22nd year. And we're the largest trade association in the world representing companies that sell products for dogs, cats and horses, you know, similar to human dietary supplements, but our programs have expanded where we now have quality, quality and qualification programs for raw materials, contract manufacturers, testing laboratories, because it seems intuitive, but people you know, kind of forget, one of the things they you know, you see a product on the shelf and quality is assumed and it shouldn't be. So I always say Trust, but verify. And we'll talk more about that in this podcast, I'm sure. If you don't start with quality raw materials, combined and manufactured with quality, repeatable processes, you're not going to have quality products at the end of that production cycle. So we cover all the way from raw material supplier qualification through our preferred supplier program, contract manufacturing companies all the way through finished products. we do independent product testing also, we'll go out as an organization couple times a year, and we'll buy products from the marketplace. And we'll test to make sure that companies meet label claim. If they don't, then we require written corrective action and investigation, if they’re outside of allowable limits or analytical laboratory variation. And what if a company changes their formulation in any way? Do they have to start over again? CHANGE IN FORMULATION Yeah, good question. Products are entered in our database. And every ingredient in the product is entered in and that product is finalized and locked, the company has to sign it off and lock the product. So that product in our database cannot be changed. Now, if a formulation does change, they can enter a new product, or we won’t modify that product because that would compromise the integrity and the traceability of the products that were manufactured previous to the formulation change. But that can be updated by like a red one SKU in our database. So every individual product and individual formulation can be tracked by lot number, and that really protects the company, you know, if they ever did have a problem, or an issue that was unforeseen? You know, we could recognize that act upon that quickly, you know, if needed, and again, in the interest of ensuring that we have quality products in the marketplace. And do you guys put any emphasis on companies that have done clinical trials or studies? STUDIES AND TRIALS Certainly, clinical trials and studies are important. And we encourage people to contact a company look for research? A couple issues with research. So Krista, let me give you a direct short answer to your question. We don't evaluate the efficacy of products, right? There would be legal liability associated with that. And if we did, if we evaluated safety and efficacy, then we'd be the FDA. And that's what the Food and Drug Administration does. So we don't evaluate whether or not the product works, or does the company have clinical research? However, in commenting on clinical research, a lot of people especially veterinarians say, You know what, I'm not going to buy a product until I see research. There's a couple of issues with research, I think the right question is, why isn't there more research for natural products? Two answers to that, number one, natural substances cannot be protected via intellectual property or patents. So if a company introduces, you know, conducts research, and I'll give you an example, we just conducted as an organization, a safety study for CCD, three different types of CBD in dogs, the cost of that study was $475,000, for just safety. So there's no way to recoup the investment, because you can't patent protect the formulations in most cases. So some other company can go out, copy of formulation, sell it cheaper, and no way for the company to recoup the investment. That's answer number one, or part one of the answer. Part Two, the answer is, if you have a product that shows that the product would be beneficial for a chronic disease process, companies are limited on the claims that they can make if they don't go through the drug approval process with FDA. And that's a very expensive and lengthy process, meaning millions of dollars and years, at least five years to get through the new animal drug approval process. So that's why drug companies have formulations or substances that they can protect with patents, and recoup the very costly investment that it takes to go through the new animal drug approval process. So that's kind of a long winded answer to a short question, which is, how do we view research? And do we encourage research? The answer is yes, we encourage research. But there are limitations in this particular area, just because the cost to reach it. That all makes sense. Thank you for breaking that down. Appreciate it. Well, before we go on our break, I guess I wanted to ask, since it's called the National Animal Supplement Council, are you only taking companies that are manufacturing here in the US? ONLY US COMPANIES? Yeah, the answer is the answer is no. When we started NASC, that's where we started because that's where the issue was burning. The hottest and brightest was products were being limited, in fact being removed from the marketplace in the United States. So we started as in the National Animal Supplement Council, but we really have evolved into you know, we're more of a global organization, we participated in the veterinary natural health products program and helped define the path forward in Canada. And we're recognized in in some other countries, countries internationally with the NASC seal and our quality program. So we've become more globally focused over time. But we started out focused in the US. got it. Okay. Well, we are going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Bill is going to unpack his motto trust but verify, and how we can know that we're getting a good product when we are looking for products for our dogs. So everybody sit tight, and we'll be right back. SPONSOR AD Thanks to Dog Love essential oils for sponsoring this episode. They say it comes in many forms. And in this case, love comes in a bottle. Our canine companions are more than just pets. They're cherished family members. So whether you have a sprightly pup, a wise old sage or a beloved friend of any age, Dog Love Oils help to enhance your pups wellbeing, and happiness. Are you tired of using chemical laden products on your precious pup? Well, Dog Love Oils has you covered. Whether it's soothing your dogs hotspots, protecting them from pesky fleas and ticks, aiding digestion, relieving sore joints, or simply promoting overall wellness, Dog Love Oils has crafted top quality natural solutions for you. What makes these elixirs stand out? Well, it's all about quality and Dog Love Oils uses only the finest pure therapeutic grade essential oils, ensuring safety and effectiveness for both dogs and their human companions. And rest assured that all Dog Love Oils are blended with natural ingredients and expertly diluted and tested to be dog safe. Show your love by going to https://www.dogloveoils.com/ today and explore their wide range of products designed to boost your best friend's well being. And here's a special treat during the entire month of December, enjoy a generous 15% off every order of $25 or more by using the code WAGOUTLOUD . Dog Love Oils… love in a bottle. And we are back and I'm having a fascinating conversation with Bill Bookout from the National Animal Supplement Council. And Bill you mentioned in the first half that your motto is trust but verify. Can you unpack that a little bit? TRUST, BUT VERIFY Yes, I think, again, as we talked about in, you know, before the break, people see a product on the shelf and quality is assumed and I don't think it should be. trust but verify. You know, people should not be afraid to pick up the phone and call the company and ask some questions. Ask how long has the company been in business? Ask who formulated the product? And what's their background? You know, do they have expertise in these areas? Who can I call if I have a question? You know, are they credible? You know, Can I can I get help? There's a couple red flags that I always tell people to look for. And you can take these to the bank. Companies that make claims that sound too good to be true, probably are. And cheap products are cheap for a reason. So if you see two different products, and they look the same formulation wise and one of them cost significantly less than the other stop and ask yourself why. quality costs money. Now, why is that important? Because this is a consumable product. And there are no magic bullets out there. Right? So even if you have a supplement that you hope that your dog or cat will benefit from. It's not a magic bullet. Right. It's a component of a comprehensive health and wellness program. But the important point for supplements are, quality means consistency. And if your dog or cat is going to respond positively to that product. It needs to be produced consistently. So you have the same product this week, next week, next month, next year, so that you maximize the probability that you're going to get a positive response for the animal And that centers around quality and process control. So that's why trust but verify quality is always important. Now, we all lead busy lives, right? And I will also suggest that people, you know, access to information on the internet, we live in the information age, right? We get information from all kinds of different places. And it's easy to get right. So be careful what you read, be careful who you believe, trust but verify. And, you know, we hope that companies or consumers, pet owners will look for NASC audited member products, because again, as I mentioned earlier, that doesn't mean they're perfect, but it does mean somebody's been there and checked them out. Right. So I think you want to maximize the probability that your dog or cat who is really your extended family member is going to benefit from the products and you want to buy a quality product, because if they're going to respond, it really centers around quality and consistency. I'm glad you mentioned that it all does make a lot of sense that cheaper does not mean better. And that we do have to ask questions and not be afraid to dig a little deeper into the companies and the ingredients and the sourcing and where do they manufacture? How do they manufacture? So I know when we originally met, which was a long time ago, you said that there was an instance when you had to cancel a member? Can you share what happened there? MEMBERS NOT BEING COMPLIANT We did. Yeah, without mentioning any names. We had a longtime audited member company, that we you know, we pick up products and we test for label claims. And we had a company come in at 78% of label claim for one of the ingredients in their product. Well, when that happens, that's you know, there's obviously an issue. So we require written investigation and corrective action so that the company can determine what made that happen. Well, we sent a note to the company and said, Hey, we bought this product, here's where we bought it from, here's the test results. We tested this particular laboratory, we're completely transparent in that. And we said you're 78% of label claim, you need to find out why this happened and respond to us on what your findings are and what you're going to do. What are you going to do so this doesn't happen again. And the company responded back to us and said, We're not going to do that. We think you're getting too deep in our business, and we're not going to respond to you. We canceled their membership that day. Good for you. So, I mean, if we don't walk our talk, then again, as I mentioned earlier, if you ask me, What's the one single word that best describes the success of NASC credibility, right? If we don't have credibility with the regulatory agencies, and ultimately with the consumers in the marketplace, retailers, consumers, then we don't have a good foundation to stand on. So quality is very important to us. That's what happened. And we're very serious about what we do. Well, I appreciate that, that shows integrity and transparency. And I mean, you are regulating, which is what we need. And speaking of which, you should be very proud of 300 members. But when we look at the entire landscape of animal supplements, there are I can't even imagine hundreds of 1000s of brands, why aren't more wanting to be a part of the NASC? So by consumer spending, we estimate that we represent about 80 to 85% of the industry. The industry, rightly or wrongly, is a fairly low barriers to entry industry. Meaning that, you know, Krista and Bill can decide they want to start an animal supplement company, and if we can get it up off the ground, then we can certainly do that. But we estimate that we represent about 80 and 85% of the industry by consumer spending or products that consumers purchase. So we represent the majority of the industry. But that's why I say Trust, but verify, you know, look at the company, see how long they've been in business, check out their background, don't hesitate to do a little due diligence before making the selection. Now, if you see a company with the NASC quality seal again, that means they're not only a member agree to abide by our guidelines in terms of the Code of Conduct, we bought it at them and we verified that. So we hope the consumer because we all lead busy lives, you know, would look for the NASC quality seal and and give that weight. Our ultimate goal is we want to NASC quality seal to be in the top three factors of why someone selects a product that they would use for their furry family member. And do you ever seek out members? Or do they come to you? HOW NASC FINDS MEMBERS most of the time members come to us. At some of the major trade shows like Global Pet Expo or Super Zoo, there's a couple of major veterinary shows, you know, we attend those shows, we usually have a booth and, you know, I'll cruise around if I if I see a company, or what its really turned into Krista is more of a self policing industry. So when you have the majority of the industry, following requirements and quality standards, if somebody is outside of those boundaries, and you know, really, you know, making claims they shouldn't make, for example, they're out there purveying products, and they say they're going to cure everything from parvo to cancer. A lot of times people don't realize they're making a mistake. I didn't when I first got in the business. So I'll call companies up if they're brought to my attention, or if I see them somewhere. And I'll try to help them. we operate with with the philosophy here that a rising tide floats all boats. So, you know, sometimes companies just don't know that they're making a mistake. And I'll try to give them the information because it doesn't do the industry any good for us to sit back and let a company make a mistake. Because bad news sells. And we all get painted with a broad brush wrongly a lot of times. But nevertheless, that's what happens. And so we do both, most of the times companies come to us, one of the buyers on the retail side. Now we've been around long enough and we have credibility, you know that the buyers will require companies to belong to NASC. Because again, they want to maximize, this is a consumable sale, they want to maximize the probability that a pet owner is going to return to their location, wherever that purchase location is, they're going to buy that product again, they're going to leverage that visit, they’ll buy other things because it increases trust with the retailer that recommends or offers a product for sale. And they'll tell their friends and create a new stream of business. So there's a lot of business benefits. And so we get a lot of a lot of companies through retail channels as well, because we you know, again, we help the retailers maximize, maximize their revenue which at the end of the day. You know, that's what that's what keeps them in business. Well, I have to say, in the almost five years that I've been doing this show, you know, I've learned how to ask the questions and what to look for. But I think a lot of these companies, unfortunately, they're playing on our emotions, because we're talking about, as you mentioned, extended family. These dogs are part of our family, and cats. So when we're buying these supplements, and we don't see a difference, in whatever we're trying to address, I know that I've had supplement graveyards, I've spent so much money, it seems like I'm throwing stuff at the wall, there has to be something that works for my dog. So for the NASC seal for you guys to do the steps and go above and beyond what research and homework I could do on a brand or product. I think that just speaks so highly of what you're doing. We try to make it easier, right? Because again, we all lead busy lives. So we try to make it easier. And again, I don't claim that all of our members are perfect. They're not. But we want people to have a higher degree of confidence that if they select an audited NASC member company’s product, that that company is a solid company and they're going to maximize the probability of success, which how does that translate? We really want our dogs and cats. We want the same things for our dogs and cats we want for ourselves. If you stop and think about that, we want to live a long, happy, healthy life to the maximum degree possible, right? Well, here's the irony. This might be a total rabbit hole. I do believe if we feed our pets, a species appropriate diet. And I am one and everybody knows that for fresh and or raw feeding versus a highly processed food with synthetic vitamins and minerals. They can't be getting the nutrition that they need. So therefore you do need to supplement and that's where I just I don't understand why many of us don't want to give the proper nutrition to our animals and give them less supplementation. What are your thoughts on that? WHY NOT BETTER NUTRITION FOR LESS SUPPLEMENTATION? Very insightful and you're dead on I mean, you hit the nail on the head. If people think about it this way, this thing that we call health and wellness, whether it's for ourselves or our animals, it's a three dimensional sphere. A spherical object, three dimensional, good diet, exercise, home environment, fresh water, routine veterinary care, and checkups, just like routine, you know, you know, physicals and checkups every year. That's right. Supplements are a component of that. But you're right. A lot of people don't know, your gastrointestinal tract is the largest immune supporting organ in your body, person or animal. And quality food quality diet, strong and healthy immune system, those are really you know, so probiotics can can play a role in that. So probiotics are the good bacteria, you know, that fight off the bad bacteria in the GI tract that helps metabolize nutrients and maintain strong and healthy immune system. But probiotics are subject to. The two enemies of probiotics are heat and moisture. And so you don't see probiotics in pet food because they're heated to kill off salmonella in a kill step. So probiotics is one example of a supplement that can be very beneficial for long term health and wellness. Now, you might not see an immediate effect from probiotics, like you would on maybe a joint product if your dog's limping from old age or something like that. But you really hit a very key point, good nutrition, clean water, exercise, loving home environment. Supplements as a component are really, really important. So it's three dimensional. Oh, thank you for clarifying that. That's, that's so powerful that we give them all around whole body wellness physically and mentally. Well, Bill, we are running out of time. But before we go, I want to ask you two things. First of all, what is the difference between a health versus a nutritional supplement? HEALTH VS NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS Very good question. So a health supplement would be for a non nutritional benefit. ingredients that would not provide nutrients that are required in a complete and balanced diet. What are some examples? Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, tumeric, curcumin, coenzyme Q 10. lutein, there's no scientifically substantiated daily nutritional requirements for those ingredients yet, products with some of those can be targeted for specific health benefits, right? Joint Health, eye health, cardiovascular health, liver and kidney health, gastrointestinal health, immune health, things like that. It could be when times of stress, right? older, older animals just like older people, you know, they don't get around as well so great products or B category. Those would be on the health supplement side. nutritional supplements would provide nutrients as a component of a complete and balanced diet, maybe probiotics, vitamins, minerals, things that, you know, you may as you said earlier, dog food companies are required to provide nutritionally complete diets. But typically, the more you spend the better quality for pet food you're going to get. And if people are willing to you know, go for, you know, raw diet, frozen diet, home prepared diet, you know, look at that, but, you know, some nutritional supplements would be provide components of a complete and balanced diet. There's some up and coming products that are completers, right, you take a protein source, and then you have a supplement that would have the other nutrients that you add to your own protein source. That would make a complete balanced diet. So does that help clarify that? Thank you. That's That's great. Well, they'll as we are wrapping up, what would you like to leave us with today? Well, Bill, I really appreciate the opportunity Krista, I'm very sorry that this is your last episode, but again, I'm honored to be selected to contribute. I guess I'd leave you with my contact information. If people have a question and they hear this podcast don't hesitate to reach out to me because you can get a hold of me. You know, www.animalsupplements.org is our website. My email address is b.bookout@NASC.cc Shoot me a note, don't hesitate to pick up the phone, give me a call, check out our website and look for the NASC seal. And, you know, long, happy, healthy life to everybody on the podcast. I really appreciate you listening. Thank you, Bill. And I will have all of these links in the show notes. OFFER: And Bill is giving a great offer. He is offering up a free copy of the NASC Pocket Guide to dog and cat health. And there's a form on their website, and I have the link again, it's going to be in the show notes. All you have to do is click on it and you'll have access to that NASC Pocket Guide to dog and cat health. Bill, I can't thank you enough. And I'm so glad that you reached out to me those months and months ago and set me straight that there is regulation. And we need more of that in the entire industry, not just in the supplement division. So I want to thank you for starting this amazing organization, and for being on here today. And I want to thank all of the listeners for wanting to do better and to advocate for their dog's health. So Bill, thank you so much. I appreciate you. Thank you very much. It's an honor. Thanks again to Dog Love Oils for sponsoring this episode and for their unwavering dedication to our beloved canine companions. Save 15% off any of their exceptional products during the month of December 2023. By using code WAGOUTLOUD on your purchase of $25 or more. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. The host as well as guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and Wag Out Loud LLC neither endorses or opposes any particular views discussed here.

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Canine Massage: It's Not Just a Spa Day

Wag Out Loud

31 minutes 19 seconds

2 years ago

Canine Massage: It's Not Just a Spa Day

Hello everyone, this is Krista with Episode #171 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. You know when you're on the couch and your dog stretches out next to you and lets out a long sigh? Well, that means that they're happy. They're soft vocalizations such as sighs and maybe some low groans, those are signs of contentment in dogs. So your dog snuggling up and sighing doesn't mean they're bored. It actually means that they feel safe and comfortable right by your side. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Hello dog lovers and thanks for tuning in to a another informative Wag Out Loud pawdcast episode. Today we have the pleasure of learning from Caragh Reilly, and she is going to chat with us about It's Not Just a Spa Day, but how therapeutic massage can actually benefit the health and mobility of dogs at every life stage. Caragh, thank you so much for being with us today. So appreciate it. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Well, I want to first ask if you can please introduce yourself and share with us what got you interested in canine massage in the first place? Absolutely. So I've been doing canine massage for just about 5-5 1/2 years now. I was in a corporate career for much of my life and felt that something was missing. I adopted my dog after about 10 years ago and it kind of reignited my passion for all things dog. And I decided that it was time to make a bit of a life change and find a career that felt a little bit more fulfilling and rewarding for me. So I took a little bit of a break from my corporate life, started taking some classes and found canine massage and just absolutely fell in love with the work. And I'm sure Oscar is totally in love with you doing the massage. He's not too disappointed. Oh, that's so cool. Well, why don't we break it down? What exactly is canine massage because as we alluded to in the title, you know, we think of going to the spa. And there's different techniques, you know, it could be more fluff or more hardcore, like, you know, Swedish or Rolfing. So what exactly does that mean, when we talk about massage for our dogs? What is Canine Massage? Yeah, I mean, it can mean a lot of different things. And really, there's applications for massage for every dog at every stage of their life. But you know, while certainly massage has tremendous relaxation benefits, just like we know, when we go to the spa, I think sometimes we overlook the clinical benefits of bodywork, and how it really impacts the body not just emotionally in terms of triggering a relaxation state, but also physiologically helping address pain, helping address tension, and kind of providing benefits throughout the body and to every body system. I think it's a pretty incredible modality because it does impact every body system, and really can be used for almost any dog based on whatever they're going through both emotionally and physically. Okay, and we're talking just about muscles, so soft tissue, right? Soft tissue, I mean, but you know, that also includes muscle, connective tissue, like fascia in the body. So you know, all of that carries tension and is impacted by you know, whatever is going on in the body and from your health condition. So it's not just tension relief, but it increases circulation and has tons of other benefits, which I'm sure we'll get to talking about during this during this talk. Well, I think we're there. So let's unpack some of those benefits. Benefits of Canine Massage Awesome. Yeah, I think that a lot of people when they think about massage for their dog, they probably naturally go towards addressing, you know, arthritis and stiffness for dogs that are seniors. And certainly a lot of the clients are just that and certainly has wonderful benefits for geriatric care. But I think what's so exciting about this work is that it can offer so much variety if you choose to work with all sorts of different types of dogs. So I like to share just how it can affect dogs at different life stages to give some examples. So, I have a couple of clients that are actually puppies. I think the youngest one that I'm working with now is six months. And how massage can really help is to start acclimating dogs to intentful touch, which is essentially massage. Massage is touch with intent to get them used to handling. And it's a great way to set them up for a lifetime of success with handling at, you know, professionals like groomers or the vet. I've also worked with dogs that are skittish or weary of touch. So by introducing positive touch early, you can help socialize the dog. And then I also really work with a lot of young dogs where they're exuberant and active and throwing their bodies around and running around at the dog park. And as you can imagine, when you're overactive like that your body can hurt, even if you're young and agile, and healthy. And so by really interceding early with body work, you can prevent injury down the road, and keep them moving and feeling their best as they grow. I never thought about it that way. But that really makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and I mean, certainly, so that's just one example is puppies, but as they transition into adulthood, I do a lot of preventative care where clients have me work with their dog just to really keep them moving and feeling their best and to prevent kind of health issues and tensions from becoming bigger problems down the road. And certainly, I'm involved a lot with dogs who are undergoing injuries or have gone through surgeries, that have a lot of orthopedic conditions that dogs are prone to such as tearing CCLs or suffering from luxating patellas, where their kneecap pops out of the groove. And these are all issues which are either dogs are either going through rehab for or have been surgically corrected. And massage and bodywork is a tremendous modality for helping them heal through that process. Well, you talk about healing, is it because through massage, you are actually improving the blood flow? Is that why it helps? Does it Improve Blood Flow? It's a great question. It's one of the primary benefits is increasing circulation. So what keeps soft tissue healthy in the body is by having blood flow come in because it brings oxygen. Tissue needs oxygen to be healthy. So when we increase and boost that circulation in the body, we're helping bring in that great oxygen to the tissues and also flushing waste products out of the tissues as well. So it is definitely a primary benefit. And one of the key physiological reasons to consider massage. That makes sense. And what is massage doing to actually reduce pain? Is there an anti inflammatory effect? Does It Reduce Pain? Yeah, certainly by you know, as I said, bringing in some increased circulation, you're bringing nutrients into the tissue, which can help tissue heal. You're flushing, waste and byproducts out. But it's also really impacting the nervous system, and the pain signals that are going into the brain. So by stimulating the nervous system, you're triggering something in the body, that's called a parasympathetic response, which is the body’s state of rest and relaxation. And you're also not to totally geek out on you, but you're bringing a lot of tactile stimuli to the brain. And there are some theories that, you know, if your brain is registering some of those tactile stimulations, they're not getting the pain signals as loudly in the brain. So it helps diffuse that sensation of pain. So you're kind of addressing pain on two fronts, one on the nervous system and just kind of tricking your brain to say, hey, this feels good, and it's not as painful. But then you're also physiologically addressing some of the pain by you know, helping the tissue heal. I never thought about that. That makes sense, though. And you mentioned you know that it helps to relax a dog and alleviate their stress. Does that mean that massage would actually lower their blood pressure as well? Lower Blood Pressure? Yeah, absolutely. Blood pressure, it definitely has a nice stress reducing anti anxiety effect. It's another group of dogs that really can benefit from bodywork. I've worked with dogs in the shelter environment where they can be a little bit of stressful or dogs that suffer some anxiety conditions. And giving a dog a break through massage to let the brain kind of chill out for lack of a better word. Gives some comfort and just lowers stress. And then you know all those health effects that when you lower your stress, reduce your heart rate, reduce your blood pressure, calm your breathing. It provides all that emotional benefit. Well, when I looked into this before, you know, I know you and I talked quite a long time ago to schedule this interview. I didn't know that massage can actually help improve the immune system. How does that work? It Can Improve the Immune System? Yeah, well, massage, there are some specific techniques that you can do specifically a manual lymphatic drainage is a great technique for dogs that need some immune boosting but the lymphatic system in the body is basically the immune system in the body and it's a one way system that sometimes can get a little bit clogged up. And so by manipulating lymph throughout the system and helping the flow improve, you are actually boosting the immune system. It's kind of a lesser known technique. But it's really, really a cool one. It's also a great way to clear excess swelling after an injury or surgery. So definitely encourage people to look into lymphatic massage, not just for their dogs, but for themselves, because I think a lot of people don't know about it, and it's highly effective in the healing process. And what about massage, improving digestion? Yeah, I mean, just by improving, you know, circulation, again, you're stimulating the digestive tract. Certainly, there are techniques you can do to kind of help with the overall flow along the digestive tract, which can be helpful. I've worked with dogs say with irritable bowel disorder, or just kind of some GI stress, and just kind of help overall keep things moving. And, you know, can help, again, with some pain relief in that system by stimulating the digestive tract, and then when you're working the abdomen from other areas. It goes way further than just what you think of massage. It's just topical, moving of the skin and maybe getting into the muscle. Yeah, it really does. I mean, there's virtually no dog that could not benefit. I mean, certainly, there are some situations where massage is not appropriate. For example, if your dog has an active infection that they're fighting or a fever, or that they have, you know, a severe kind of nerve pain syndrome, where you know, you could be causing pain, but I would say for you know, 98% of dogs, there is some way that massage could benefit them. Okay, well, we are going to take a quick sponsor break. And in the second part we are going to talk about, you know, would your dog be a candidate and to find out from you what exactly is involved, and the different techniques. So everybody hang on, we will be right back. I want to thank my friends at Green and Experience for being our monthly sponsor. Did you know that many of the most popular dog toys contain dyes, preservatives and chemical residues that are toxic? Testing has also revealed heavy metals, along with hormone-disrupting chemicals, carcinogens and neurological poisons. But now you can give your dog an organic, plant based, zero waste dog toy! I want to introduce you to non-toxic fetch balls. They look like tennis balls, but these are chemical free, wool free and synthetic free! Made with organic bamboo fibers and organic natural rubber, these fetch balls are gentler on teeth, fun AND healthy! Fetch your dog this non-toxic toy by going to Etsy.com and put GreenandExperience in the search bar. You can also find the link in the show notes. Choose from a set of two or three fetch balls and save by using the code WOL15 at checkout for a 15% discount. A better dog toy plus you’re giving back because $1 from each purchase is donated to the St. Hubert’s dog shelter in Madison, NJ. Also, if you purchase two or more fetch balls and yours is one of the first 100 orders, you will also receive a FREE encapsulated dog tag valued at $15. How awesome it that? Hello, everyone. Welcome back. We are speaking with Caragh Reilly and we are talking about canine massage. And I am learning so much. There's just so much more to it. So when we left for the break, Caragh, you were mentioning maybe some dogs that are not good candidates for massage. But pretty much most dogs would really benefit from it. So why don't you tell us about the different techniques? Because I think you mentioned there are different ones, especially you know, the lymphatic drainage that was really cool. What other techniques are there? Massage Techniques So you know, canine massage is really based in Swedish massage techniques just like it is in humans. So of the core kind of soft tissue work that we're doing. We're doing a technique called effleurage, which is long, sweeping strokes. We're doing a lot of compression techniques where we're kind of working into the muscle belly to spread the muscle fibers and bring increase the blood flow in there. We're also doing some work where we're maybe kneading the skin manipulating the skin doing what they call petrifies techniques. So we're we're working with the fascial tissue. Fascia is a connective tissue that covers everything in the body and really connects everything. So you can be working fascia in one area of the body and having an effect in another, another area. Again, another technique where if you haven't had fascial work done on yourself as a human, I definitely recommend you look into that, in addition to looking into it for your dog. Again, we're using all those basic Swedish techniques. But then for, you know, canine massage therapists that are certified in this work, we're also going into some advanced techniques that have deeper effects such as trigger point release, trigger points are very hyper irritable spots in the skin, which you can release, they can kind of cause deferred or active pain. I don't know if any of you are listening in have ever had a massage and they they're working or knot and your neck and you feel it all the way down your arm or up into your head. That's a trigger point that you have. And so you know, releasing those trigger points helps reduce reduce pain all over. We're often doing orthopedic friction work on tendons and ligaments to help with you know, tendons and ligaments healing, if there's injuries to those components of the body. I mentioned manual lymphatic drainage, which is excellent for immune boosting and for healing after injury, and surgery. And, you know, in general, we're just also providing just a very nice positive touch experience, I try not to underestimate the power simply of applying touch to dogs, because we can communicate so powerfully through touch. I think, you know, you think what happens, if you're grieving and say, What does someone instinctually do to provide comfort, it's giving you a hug, placing a hand on your shoulder, it doesn't have to be deep or intensive, but just even a gentle touch can communicate so well and provide comfort. So, you know, physical effects of massage aside, I think that massage is a tremendous way to improve, you know, bonds with dogs, and to help, you know, provide them comfort and a sense of well being. Yeah, absolutely. And I can imagine the sporting dogs would really benefit because they are doing some you know, I know I used to do agility with Winston. And dogs like that. Probably need it. For Sporting Dogs Sporting dogs are kind of like the elite athletes, right? And they are out there working their bodies really hard. So I would say what's great about you know, the sporting world is they were kind of ahead of the times and I think that you know, massage and bodywork is pretty commonplace. You know, if you trial, you'll often see massage therapists on site to help pre and post event to help dogs prime for their events, and then you know, help with their recovery. But yeah, even if you're just doing it for fun, you have to be cognizant of the fact that you're putting a strain on your dog's bodies and they may be prone to injury. So by kind of introducing some of this body work, you're helping to prevent potential injury and keeping them at the top of their game. Absolutely. And I know I've had guests on before talking about acupuncture, and they also mentioned acupressure. So, is acupressure actually considered a form of massage? What About Acupressure? Acupressure, there's a separate certification process. Many canine massage therapists are also trained and certified in applying acupressure. One thing that I think it's a great thing to note is that what pet professionals can practice in terms of massage, acupuncture, acupressure does vary by state. There are veterinary practice laws that are state by state which indicate if you must be a veterinary professional to implement some of these modalities. As a general rule, acupuncture with needles should be performed by a veterinarian. And sometimes in some states massage also needs to be done under a veterinary professional’s guidance or within a veterinary practice. And Acupressure is one of those other things. For example, I'm here in Illinois, and I can provide therapeutic massage outside of the veterinary world but I do not practice acupressure just to align with Illinois veterinary practice laws. I didn't know that interesting. Okay. Well, it's actually comforting to know there is regulation out there for for this. So thanks for pointing that out. Is It a Regulated Industry? There is regulation. It's not always enforced. You know, I think that yeah, it's one thing that I'd love to see since it's even getting into this field, the growth and the awareness of the need for better, more supervised training. Definitely recommend if you're looking for a therapist in your area, doing a little research to kind of understand the credentials that the massage therapists in your area have because it's not a regulated area. If anyone says they are a licensed massage therapist, be a little bit wary because there actually is no canine massage therapy license. The certification process, and if you are looking for kind of a great organization to find a reputable therapist, the National Board of Canine Animal Acupressure and Massage, NBCAAM is a great resource to find a practitioner that's gone through appropriate training, which includes a certain amount of training in anatomy and physiology, ethics, all the massage and that they've had a good deal of supervised hands on training under the purview of an instructor because some programs out there are claiming they're certifying people just with online training. And unfortunately, I think that's doing a bit of a disservice to the industry, because how can you learn a hands on trade without really good hands on training? So just something to be aware of, in your communities. You know, to kind of look into the training programs of any therapist, you engage. Great advice. Well, Caragh, I went to your website, and I love your website. It's, it's very well done. But one thing that stood out to me is something I learned earlier this year, that blew my mind that dogs don't have collarbones. Yeah. It's kind of my little trivia for new clients. That dogs’ front limbs are not skeletally attached to their body, they don't have a collarbone bone like we do. They have kind of a small cartilage piece. But I think that it's fascinating to know that about dog’s bodies, because it puts into perspective, how much strain they may be putting on their front limbs. Dogs actually also carry about 60% of their weight up front. So they're putting a lot of strain on their shoulders, elbows, wrists. And when you think of the fact that their limbs are not skeletally cemented to their body, but instead that's all attached by muscle and connective tissue. I think it's another great reason to think, wow, I think massage and bodywork is something that would help keep those joints moving their best, because we're taking some of that tension out when they're really bearing a quite a load. Yes. Just another reason. Well, I can go on all day about the reasons. Of course you could. Well, how long? Typically I know every dog is different. But how long do the effects of a massage session last? Typical Sessions Yeah, I mean, it depends on what the goal is. Usually, if you think about how we feel after a massage, you're feeling looser, or feeling less tense, you're feeling some reduced pain that typically lasts, you know, a couple of days to a week, it depends on the severity of the condition that you're going through. You know, so I think every dog is an individual, and it depends on when you're intervening, I guess in a dog, you know, pain cycle, and you know how severe some of the issues are that they're dealing with. So you know, it can be a short lived thing, or it can can last quite a bit, I would say that, you know, I have some dogs that I work with weekly. And then I have some dogs that really just are pretty good. And I see them once a month or once every other month because they're young and healthy, and they are generally moving fine. And when they start to get a little stiff, their owners bring me back in. Okay, and how long is an average session? It depends on how much touch the dog will tolerate. I personally offer sessions that are anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes in length. Interestingly, even if a dog absolutely loves their massage time, they tend to max out. And every dog's tolerance of intentional touch varies. But you know, I have a couple of dogs that I always laugh, they're passed out sleeping and snoring and at minute 29 are up and ready to move on to the next activity for the day. And then of course, I have a couple of dogs that probably would lay there all day if I let them. But if more and more and more. But you know, just like with uss, you can overwork tissue, right. So just because we'd love this claim that we'd lay on the massage table all day, it's not necessarily the best thing for your body. So I tend to find that, you know, 30 to 60 minutes are great session lengths. Usually my smaller dogs are shorter sessions, some of my bigger dogs I take a little longer to work through their body, but it's really about reading the dogs cues. And I'm you know, it's a force free, you know, kind of profession. I’m never restraining the dog forcing them to enjoy the massage. I want it to be on their terms, because if they're stressed about it or being forced to stay in place, they're not reaping the benefits. So it's a conversation that I have with each of my dogs during every session and every session might be different. Like we're all different. Makes sense. So you of course do in person sessions with your clients, but you also do virtually and how does that work? Do you kind of teach the pet parents what to do? Great question. Yeah, I started offering this as in home for a variety of reasons. I mean, I could have worked in a facility and some people do that, but I like and I'm passionate about some dogs that are maybe a little bit more nervous, or if they're a senior, it's difficult to get into a facility. So I find that dogs are often comfortable in their own home. So it's great when I can do that in home. But during COVID, I had to be a little flexible. So my virtual sessions actually started at that time, when I wanted to provide a way to still bring some comfort and assistance to dogs when we were not able to or people were uncomfortable, you know, with continuing with an in home session. So in that situation, I do a zoom call. And I'm basically walking them through some basic techniques, and where to apply them on the body. Currently, I do offer that just for my own existing clients versus new clients, because I like to know what I've felt their body before and can provide better guidance over the phone. But a great part of, of this job is providing pet parent education. And I'm always willing to show pet parents how to perform some techniques to do in between our sessions, because, you know, my passion is to help your dog feel well. And it's not that I'm the only one that can provide that. And I want to keep dogs moving and feeling their best. So I do love showing pet parents some simple techniques they can do. And there are some great ones that that everyone can do at home to keep their dogs moving well, all the time. Right. Well, and I'm really impressed, Caragh that you, it seems like you are taking this a step further. Because you're also trained in advanced post surgical, edema management, tendon and ligament healing, and also oncology techniques. So that's quite impressive that you are so well rounded. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's when I first got into this work, it is one of the reasons why I became so passionate about it, it's, it's really fun to get to work with so many different types of dogs and build relationships with those dogs. And the variety of it, for me was great versus to say working in a rehab facility, which is tremendous, and they do wonderful. And most of them offer, you know, massage therapy in that setting. But I wanted to branch out and kind of have access to dogs undergoing different things. And I love that every day looks different. And every session looks different. And so, you know, I'm always trying to learn and additional techniques and just bring new services to these dogs so we can help them live long, healthy lives. That's what we're all about. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Caragh, as we are wrapping up here, where can everybody find out more information about you and your company Wellness and Wags? Yeah, I mean, I think my website is the primary spot. WellnessandWags.com. I'm also on Instagram and Facebook. Certainly if you want to see pictures of, you know, cute dogs that's probably on Instagram, because that's where I go for all my cute dog pics. But yeah, certainly would love for people to check me out. And I'm certainly always available for questions. I often get, you know, people reaching out to me about how do you train in this and things like that. So I'm always happy to answer questions if anyone's interested, direct message me or send me an email as well. Social media URLs Instagram: @wellnessandwags Facebook: @wellnessandwags Great. Well, I'll put all of this in the show notes so people can reach out. And is there anything that you'd like to leave us with today? I don't think so. I just you know, it's been really fun chatting with you and sharing, you know, this industry and this work with your audience, because I think it has so many incredible benefits. And so many people don't think about it for their drugs just like we forget to get massages for ourselves. So it was just great to share, be able to share how much I love this work and how much I've seen this work help dogs. And I hope that some of your audience will start considering it for their dogs and it would be great to, you know, hear how it's benefiting them. Oh, that's great. Well, hopefully everybody in the audience learned something new today. Go ahead and reach out to Caragh because you can tell how passionate she is about her craft. And Caragh, I just want to thank you for being here and for all that you do. Thank you. It's my pleasure. I want to again thank the team at Green and Experience for not only being our monthly sponsor, but for also creating the amazing plant-based fetch ball, a safe and natural toy that I feel good about giving to my dog Winston. Check out their online store by going to Etsy.com and put GreenandExperience in the search bar. You can also find the direct link in the show notes. Choose from a set of two or three fetch balls and save by using the code WOL15 at checkout for a 15% discount. Also, if you purchase two or more fetch balls and yours is one of the first 100 orders, you will also receive a FREE encapsulated dog tag valued at $15. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. 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