recorded on 3/14/25 with Sean Vangordon and KNZ

i talk with my maker 27 years later

We talk about why selling online is a nightmare, the existential crisis of pricing your own work, and whether or not tagging clothes with painter’s tape is genius or trash. Timestamps: 0:00 – Sydney Tall: Confirmed tall, also makes clothes2:15 – The Keith Haring exhibit and creative inspiration5:42 – Block printing vs. screen printing: the pros, cons, and suffering9:18 – Puff ink disasters and why I judge people who wear Plastisol13:55 – Polyester should be illegal (but seriously)18:07 – Hand-carving blocks until your hands go numb21:45 – The struggle of making screens that don’t suck25:22 – Bleach is my god now (and how to not disintegrate your clothes)31:40 – Selling clothes: Online vs. in person and why Depop messages are a headache36:15 – The emotional rollercoaster of selling pieces you actually like41:03 – Thrift store gems, vintage finds, and people who staple price tags to fabric (why?)46:55 – Sydney’s brand “Yikes” and the eternal struggle of naming things51:28 – The problem with logos and why I don’t want branding on my clothes57:02 – The great painter’s tape debate: DIY genius or just lazy?1:02:45 – The art of a good photoshoot (and why I hate studios)1:08:30 – Thrifting, upcycling, and the insane world of high-end vintage1:13:10 – Final thoughts, creative struggles, and where to find Sydney’s work

In this episode, we sit down with a University of Oregon professor specializing in entrepreneurship and tech innovation.  Alex Murray is an Assistant Professor of Management at the University of Oregon’s Lundquist College of Business, specializing in how entrepreneurs pull resources together and how emerging tech—like crowdfunding, blockchain, and DAOs—is changing the game.  He’s been published in top academic journals, sits on editorial boards for heavy-hitter publications like the Academy of Management Review, and was a Guest Editor for a special issue on AI in management. Before landing at UO, he was a Senior Researcher at ETH Zurich and earned his PhD from the University of Washington.  We explore the impact of AI on business and society, the challenges of revitalizing unbanked communities, and the evolving landscape of digital marketing. The conversation takes a deep dive into creativity, commerce, and technology, featuring personal stories of entrepreneurial struggles, investment strategies, and the changing dynamics of content creation in a saturated digital world. Timestamps & Key Moments 🎙 0:00 - 6:00 | “How do you introduce yourself?” • Kicking off the convo with AI, tech, and business • Guest intro: UO professor researching entrepreneurship and innovation • The challenge of explaining what you do in one sentence 💰 6:00 - 12:00 | “Would you work for a big company?” • Why some people thrive in startups but not in corporate life • The guest’s two-month stint at a massive accounting firm before quitting • Moving to Nairobi, Kenya, and diving into entrepreneurship 📉 12:00 - 18:00 | “We just noticed these towns were completely unbanked.” • How entire communities in the Southeast lost access to banking • Microfinance for small businesses like bakeries and barbershops • The real challenge of getting people to invest in their own communities 💡 18:00 - 24:00 | “The hardest it’s been in a lot of ways.” • Why it feels like everything is harder right now • The long game of rebuilding small economies • How funding struggles post-2008 mirror today’s economic chaos 💰 24:00 - 30:00 | “So I have like to figure it out.” • Personal investment, credit risk, and over-leveraging for business • The psychology of why selling is harder than making • Trying to get out of the loop of learning and actually start moving product 📈 30:00 - 36:00 | “The exodus from LA killed the film community.” • The decline of full-time media gigs • Why AI and market oversaturation are killing creative work opportunities • How we went from getting steady contracts to fighting for scraps 📉 36:00 - 42:00 | “There’s no video arbitrage anymore.” • The death of organic video growth and the TikTok gold rush • Why viral content doesn’t hit the same anymore • Fighting against content fatigue in a world where everyone’s seen it all 🛠 42:00 - 48:00 | “They kept beating me in the head with ‘Can you scale it?’” • The reality of handmade clothing and why scaling is impossible • Balancing artistic integrity with actual sales • The tradeoff between quality and production speed 👕 48:00 - 54:00 | “I’m the most foremost bleach researcher to have ever existed.” • Getting obsessed with process: R&D into custom clothing design • The differences in fabric quality and why most brands cut corners • Why I started investing in high-quality blanks instead of garbage Gildans 🚀 54:00 - End | “I fall in love with every single one.” • The emotional attachment to creative work and why it’s hard to sell • The challenge of pricing unique pieces • Final thoughts on business, AI, and taking the next step Description & timestamps were created using ai to pull data from a transcription of the episode + information from his UO website: https://business.uoregon.edu/directory/faculty_staff/all/amm16#publications    Audio & Video production by Tyger Gruber prompt engineering by Tyger

Bang bang. Oh, I think the back's a lot cooler in the front and the front's pretty cool. I like the front more I'm not even joking. She's just Contradict Well, you know, I see the world very differently because I'm an impressive thinker you are like I like this arm That's me. I don't think I can possibly rank these cups in any sort of universal way though. No, no I think based on the garment that makes sense the garmento then we're if it's like a really high quality one But it has a little hole but I'm gonna fix it with I'm gonna sew it and then better make it double It's what do they call it distressed this is a distressed garment hand-stitched hand-stitched Let's see, what's it called when it's from like a did you ever make a Build-A-Bear? Yeah, you know how you like get to put a little heart in them. Oh, yeah, that's kind of like, um if you were to If you were to stitch one of them you put like a little something in there Imagine if you had your hand in your pocket and you could feel like a little heart Hands down the worst one of these pants that actually made oh my god. I love those. I'm just kidding. Yeah, these are mid Yeah, let's not look like someone had a little period mistake Poppin they turned out sick. Yeah, that's turned out great. Did you is this the same one that you were wearing the Pop one or we oh, no, we're getting to a nevermind. Nevermind. Look at this. I answered my own question Like so these those are cool. These three pants. These two pants are all those. Those are all really good So like two out of three. Yeah, really. I mean and Someone will love the third look at that for like like I kind of crushed most let me see that one I Ain't nothing special Yeah, but like it's cute. It's fun. It's funny. I was actually wearing I'm like I feel like if it had like the spongebob flowers on it, it'd really bring it all together. Yeah, and yeah, it's I'm kind of using Just whatever whatever called stamps stamps. No, but uh Shroom prints the other one iron on patches. Oh as a way of Just covering that and also being like special. Yeah special like you Just you know, it's average but someone put a bow on it It's never fun when people like we're both we're both special. Yeah So it was Kenzie and are breaking our boundaries I'm just developing a method of like okay. How are you talking to show with your partner where it's like We need to develop the fully built characters of like, okay Yeah, we have a few ideas ideas cooking. Yeah, you take you take the lead because I'm like physically. I'm I'm popping it I'm giving it. Yeah, you are popping it. I'm I'm eating candy. Um Well, there's there's talks of maybe a documentary there's talks of maybe some Sketches skits. I don't know which comedy comedy. This comedy both the shorts turned out horribly Like not even really worth showing. I mean show Pop it and this third pair of shorts off it for me BAM BAM BAM I call it that side that side that side. Yeah, the funny if this is okay. I just didn't really have any blue shorts Me up. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then I just blew you I don't really mind those Yeah, they're just mid they just need like I mean they're they're like basic bitch. Yeah, but like then they can let the top shine, you know That's a good point. I know like having the bomb. Oh, look at the back though. I like that that corner Yeah, this kind of matches a lot of the ones I was making later, which guys does either reinforce that like the temperature has a roll Or oh, so yeah, this beauty's nice this beauty is a beauty Yeah, so this is the vision pants No sneak peeks at what's next That's cool. Mm-hmm. That's cool over there. These pants rock. Yeah, we did a great job Whispers yeah bulbs and whispers. I know like a Framing or like a Like a way of talking like that almost looks 3d in a way. Mm-hmm coming over the way of like describing different places Kind of like clouds. Yeah, they have like six straddle cumulus. No, yeah Because like this one has a whole sy

Transcript: So, honestly what I'm thinking, I'm in a really unique situation and nobody is often open when they are in this situation.   Kenzie and I, we made some money with our business.   I successfully put it into some tech stocks, made some money with it and then instead of putting it back in the US dollar or keeping it in stocks when it just seemed, it was in July of this year.   We were down in California filming and I'm like, this seems unsustainable.   I'm almost parking my assets, my capital into clothing which is harder to liquidate but I feel like I have a higher impact on it rather than like, I don't have an impact on Apple stock worth.   But for the first time in my life, I'm slightly over leveraged.   I mean, I've had student loans my whole life so I've been in debt my entire adult life which is a fascinating thought, isn't it?   Well, it depends.   For some people, that's normal.   For others, it's not.   That's what I'm learning.   I'm just trying to be open with it with people because I've always, aside from student loans which are on pause and forbearance and whatnot, I've always had money but now I'm slightly in debt and it's a situation that most people don't speak openly about which it doesn't seem like it really benefits many people.   So I'm just curious like throughout your life, have you ever leveraged yourself or when you've been like, I mean, you talked with, my understanding of what you do is you talk with business owners kind of frequently.   You may have experienced people in that position a lot.   I'm curious your thoughts on leverage, essentially.   Yeah.   Well, in general, I mean, it's clear from the work that I've done and the life I've lived that there's different levels of leverage, if you want to call it that, that people are willing to extend and their comfort is very stew.   So some people don't mind going to the ultimate and spending whatever it is that they want to do thinking that that's going to be important to them and other people aren't willing to take that kind of a risk.   So they withhold that and on the other end of the spectrum, they're actually looking at a situation where you have not much, but you don't want to spend it with the idea that you'll pay for it as it goes as opposed to using credit, for example, and that would be what I've experienced anyway with people.   Move that just a little closer.   So you said if you'd use the term leverage, would you use credit or debt or I'm curious?   Yeah, I'm more comfortable with that.   I understand leverage is just another word that describes the circumstance and it may be more favorable for some people to use the word leverage.   Well, a lot of people buy a house and they're like, cool, I own a house, but I'm like, no, you took on a $300,000 debt.   They're heavily leveraged in what's it called, the housing market, not retail, it's real estate.   Oh, real estate market.   They're just heavily leveraged with all their capital in real estate.   Okay.   And that's true.   But it's helping them achieve what they want out of life, that they want to have a house that they can call their own, even though technically it belongs to whoever holds the paper on the house until that loan is paid off.   Yeah.   Yeah.   In your experience, do you think it's better to go, like my understanding is of what you said, correct me if I'm wrong, is when you say it goes slower, you just mean bootstrapping, which and like I'm someone, you can't offend my feelings.   I'm not hurt.   I'm speaking openly because I just want more people to talk openly about finances so it's less of a taboo.   Okay, again, my personal values are to pay as you go.   And so I'm most comfortable with that.   But I also felt that at a certain point in my life, I did want to have a home and so I did borrow money to do it.   And that's probably the only time I've really borrowed money is to buy a home.   And then pay it off as fast as I can.   That's really how I loo

A follow up to the episode that we ended the show with when we went on a hiatus.

This episode is the equivalent of a deep track

Freedom

Turns out the story we well ourselves is important. Robert comes on the show for a second appearance - initially invited so I could ask him for personal business advice, but the show ended up being mostly about how we label ourselves, and the impact of the story we tell ourselves.

I beat Jeremy at chess right after we recorded this.

Morgan came on the show very serendipitously, I met him via zoom a day before he was flying to Oregon, when we met it turns out his logical brother lived where Kenzie and I do right now, and he was just overall a very enjoyable person to talk with.