How can Christians pursue justice, lead with integrity and stay spiritually grounded in a divided and demanding world? In this honest and theologically rich episode, Pastor Mike Kelsey of McLean Bible Church shares how staying rooted in the character of God helps him navigate polarization, burnout and the challenges of leadership. For Mike Kelsey, pursuing justice isn’t an optional add-on — it’s an essential expression of discipleship based on God’s character. In this conversation with NAE President Walter Kim, Mike offers an honest reflection on what it’s been like to pastor through the cultural upheaval of recent years, and about the pressure that comes from trying to meet countless expectations. True rest, he says, doesn’t come from striving or disengaging, but from being deeply centered on seeking God’s approval above all else. You’ll also hear Mike and Walter discuss: * How practicing intentional Sabbath rhythms and setting boundaries with social media creates space for renewal and clarity; * The influence of the Black Church tradition on Mike Kelsey’s understanding of justice;  * How McLean Bible Church is pursuing gospel-centered justice through foster care, disability ministry and racial equity; and * Practical wisdom for navigating justice fatigue, ministry burnout and deep cultural division. * Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.Do you like the podcast?Give us a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/todays-conversation/id1039699307) and leave us a review. This is the best way for others to discover these conversations. If you listen on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/2x5IHPw43EYPW4ZEJRIwp9), give us a follow and hit the notification bell to be sure you never miss an episode. And don’t forget to pass your favorite episodes along to colleagues, friends and family.Resources* Full conversation with Mike Kelsey on YouTube (https://youtu.be/qYzK-6p5hak)* For further study, read Isaiah 32, Jeremiah 9, Matthew 11 and 2 Corinthians 5* Rest and Resisting the Pace of Pharaoh (https://www.nae.org/sheila-wise-rowe-rest-and-resisting-the-pace-of-pharaoh/), NAE Podcast with Sheila Wise Rowe* McLean Bible Church (https://mcleanbible.org/)* Jill’s House (https://jillshouse.org/)* “At McLean Bible, Mike Kelsey Is Reimagining the Multiethnic Church,” (https://www.christianitytoday.com/2023/11/mike-kelsey-mclean-bible-church-david-platt-pastor-dc-multi/) by Kate Shellnutt in Christianity TodayToday’s Conversation is brought to you by Tyndale’s Go Bible (https://www.tyndale.com/sites/gobible/?utm_campaign=Bibles%20-%20NLT%20GO%20Bible%20for%20Kids%20-%20Tyndale&utm_source=NAE%20Podcast&utm_medium=Microsite%20Oct%202025).(https://www.nae.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/GoBible_Logo_Orange_RGB-scaled-e1758930190806.png)

Carrie Sheffield, author of “Motorhome Prophecies,” joins Today’s Conversation to share her remarkable journey from a childhood marked by spiritual and psychological abuse to a renewed faith in Jesus Christ. In this honest and powerful episode, Carrie reflects on how forgiveness became central to her healing — and why she believes there is lasting hope for mental health through Christ. In this episode, Carrie Sheffield recounts her upbringing under the influence of a father who claimed Mormon prophetic authority, enforced fear-based teachings and subjected the family to instability and trauma. After leaving faith behind for over a decade, her pursuit of truth — through science, philosophy and deep soul-searching — ultimately led her to God. Her story is a moving testimony of hope, healing and forgiveness. In her conversation with NAE President Walter Kim, they discuss:   * Understanding how the brain’s ability to change offers hope for overcoming mental health challenges;* How Carrie experienced personal healing through prayer and deliverance ministries;* A call to action for the Church to actively engage in addressing mental health with truth; and* How forgiveness is not just a theological idea but a lived reality that brings freedom, healing and redemption. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.Do you like the podcast?Give us a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/todays-conversation/id1039699307) and leave us a review. This is the best way for others to discover these conversations. If you listen on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/2x5IHPw43EYPW4ZEJRIwp9), give us a follow and hit the notification bell to be sure you never miss an episode. And don’t forget to pass your favorite episodes along to colleagues, friends and family.Resources* Full conversation with Carrie Sheffield on YouTube (https://youtu.be/prw0E0SMjy4)* For reflection, see Psalm 34:18, Ephesians 4:32 and John 10:10* “Motorhome Prophecies: A Journey of Healing and Forgiveness,” (https://www.amazon.com/dp/1546004386/?bestFormat=true&k=motorhome%20prophecies&ref_=nb_sb_ss_w_scx-ent-pd-bk-d_k2_1_13_de&crid=2AZKQM6JME4RF&sprefix=motorhome%20pro) by Carrie Sheffield * “Called to Forgive,” (https://www.amazon.com/Called-Forgive-Charleston-Shooting-Victims/dp/0764232983) by Anthony B. Thompson * Harvard Human Flourishing Program (https://hfh.fas.harvard.edu/)* Healing Church Hurt (https://www.nae.org/spring-summer-2024/) edition of the NAE magazine* Exploring Soul Care (https://www.nae.org/thompsonpodcast/), NAE podcast with Dr. Curt Thompson

Investing in God’s redemptive mission through generosityWhen we think about Christian financial disciplines, tithing 10 percent often comes to mind. But what if Scripture calls us to look beyond giving a portion of our income and to embrace a new way of seeing — where everything we have, not just our money, belongs to God? Bill and Dana Wichterman join Today’s Conversation to discuss what it means to be stewards of all that God gives us to be used with joy, purpose and creativity.In this episode, Bill and Dana Wichterman, co-authors of “Stewards Not Owners,” join NAE President Walter Kim to explore what it means to practice financial discipleship in a culture shaped by abundance, anxiety and individualism. Dana and Bill offer practical wisdom and explain why financial stewardship is ultimately about joining God’s redemption project.In their conversation, they discuss:  * How God leads us from financial anxiety to freedom and joyful generosity;* Trusting God’s provision for the good works he’s called us to;* The reality that most living in the West can live below their means; and* How sharing your financial life with others cultivates accountability and discipleship.* Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.Do you like the podcast?Give us a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/todays-conversation/id1039699307) and leave us a review. This is the best way for others to discover these conversations. If you listen on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/2x5IHPw43EYPW4ZEJRIwp9), give us a follow and hit the notification bell to be sure you never miss an episode. And don’t forget to pass your favorite episodes along to colleagues, friends and family.Show Notes: https://www.nae.org/bill-and-dana-wichterman-flourishing-through-financial-stewardship/ (https://www.nae.org/bill-and-dana-wichterman-flourishing-through-financial-stewardship/)watch the full interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6e4dEu8xJE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6e4dEu8xJE)

What does it mean to keep wisdom ahead of rapidly advancing technology? In this episode of Today’s Conversation, Max Tegmark, professor and AI researcher at MIT and co-founder of the Future of Life Institute, explores the urgent question of how society can ensure artificial intelligence empowers — rather than endangers — human flourishing.In this episode, Max Tegmark joins NAE President Walter Kim to unpack the profound opportunities and alarming risks posed by AI. Drawing on vivid analogies, historical lessons and real-world examples, they examine why the stakes for wisdom, foresight and moral courage have never been higher.In their conversation, they discuss:* Why wisdom must stay ahead of technology’s power — and what happens when it doesn’t;* How past successes in safety engineering, like airbags and the FDA, offer a roadmap for responsible AI development;* The urgent need for faith communities to raise AI as a moral issue, not just a technical one; and* How re-centering the conversation on stewardship and responsibility can shift priorities toward the common good.Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.Do you like the podcast?Give us a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/todays-conversation/id1039699307) and leave us a review. This is the best way for others to discover these conversations. If you listen on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/2x5IHPw43EYPW4ZEJRIwp9), give us a follow and hit the notification bell to be sure you never miss an episode. And don’t forget to pass your favorite episodes along to colleagues, friends and family.Resources* “Life 3.0: Being Human in the Age of Artificial Intelligence” (https://www.amazon.com/Life-3-0-Being-Artificial-Intelligence/dp/1101946598) by Max Tegmark * The Future of Life Institute (https://futureoflife.org/) * Redemptive Artificial Intelligence, (https://nae.org/crouchpodcast) NAE podcast with Andy Crouch * You Are Not a Machine, (https://www.nae.org/spring-summer-2025/) Spring/Summer 2025 edition of Evangelicals magazine

What does it really mean to flourish — not just as individuals, but as communities, cultures and societies? In this episode of Today’s Conversation, Byron Johnson, distinguished professor of social sciences at Baylor University and co–director of the Global Flourishing Study, expands our vision of human flourishing to a global scale.Byron Johnson joins NAE President Walter Kim to unpack surprising and hopeful findings emergingfrom the Global Flourishing Study, a groundbreaking international research project he leads in collaboration with Harvard University and others. Together, they explore how flourishing is being measured across the world and why it matters now more than ever — for people of faith, for the Church and for the future of society. In their conversation, they explore: * What makes the Global Flourishing Study a truly unprecedented effort;  * Why flourishing is about more than just health and wealth — it’s also about purpose, relationships and faith; * How the Church plays a vital role in shaping holistic well-being; and * How the Bible offers a compelling vision of what it means to thrive. Resources* Full conversation with Byron Johnson on YouTube   (https://youtu.be/-uUia2vy720)* For further study, see Ezekiel 47, John 7 and Revelation 22  (https://youtu.be/-uUia2vy720)* Global Flourishing Study (https://hfh.fas.harvard.edu/sites/g/files/omnuum8886/files/pik/files/globalflourishingstudy_report.pdf) * “More God, Less Crime: Why Faith Matters and How it Could Matter More,” (https://www.amazon.com/More-God-Less-Crime-Matters-ebook/dp/B004YLK4E8?ref_=ast_author_dp_rw&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.GJcd3v9hOsLGuSYJsQ5y7jd7iLGghuECsIypVDA2lpE.k06P8uaMx_aC5oITe9GqV4hJ28QouUeSrjuB8KGAAZY&dib_tag=AUTHOR) by Byron Johnson * “The Faith Factor and Social Welfare: Evidence, Practice, Policy,” (https://www.amazon.com/Faith-Factor-Social-Welfare-Evidence/dp/1481323504/ref=sr_1_5?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1oxHbTibrOO-HAxZ4O6Tpp6XeCt8zGguBHwBJKhabZBQA-5MGjoic3hFWcAIE17wVqPpgLdjiQ8UZxPFnVVGM-Tw9gneqKzDYekSGbYLnIlJ5oOAJSKb-ggy86-M9-fb41p39AcwY4KN2jnJz2vKvsVPavefk6rMcQc5djmXBlvyY1T0NAxQxudOKcdMa8LsW0VrJ4IqpUA-SsM6kk98ZQ6dr3FBvhE5G7lgjZ-w3qw.78Atqwc1kvq0SYYvglphxnCY45VjGW85yKjxN_WtE3U&dib_tag=se&qid=1745497712&refinements=p_27%3AByron+R.+Johnson&s=books&sr=1-5&text=Byron+R.+Johnson) by Byron Johnson (coming in December 2025) * Moving Society From “Me” to “We,” (https://www.nae.org/putnamgarrettpodcast/) NAE podcast with Robert Putnam and Shaylyn Romney Garrett  * “Faith That Flourishes,” (https://www.nae.org/faith-that-flourishes/) by Walter Kim in Evangelicals magazine 

Rest can feel like an undeserved “luxury” for many of us — but what if it’s actually a gift from God to help us resist the “pharaohs” of our age that plague us with constant striving and endless productivity? Sheila Wise Rowe, a counselor, spiritual director and author of “Healing Leadership Trauma,” joins this episode of Today’s Conversation podcast to explore the transformational power of rest — and why God’s rhythms for our lives are so different from the world’s relentless demands. While our culture tends to measure value by output, the gospel offers a rich vision of rest as a practice that nurtures emotional, spiritual and communal flourishing. In this conversation, NAE President Walter Kim and Sheila Wise Rowe discuss: * Why rest is central to the gospel; * How to recognize signs of emotional and spiritual overdrive; * Rhythms of rest woven throughout Scripture; and* How God’s design for rest frees us.Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.Find the show Notes: http://www.nae.org/wiserowepodcastWatch the full Interview on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je-hAOSKoWI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je-hAOSKoWI)

What if the gospel is more vast, beautiful and multidimensional than we could ever imagine? Renowned New Testament scholar Dr. Craig Keener joins Today's Conversation podcast to deepen our understanding of what Jesus meant by the “good news,” how the early Christians received it, and how it transformed not just individual lives — but entire communities. While the gospel is often framed primarily in terms of the forgiveness of sins — a foundational and essential truth — it doesn’t stop there. In this theological rich conversation, NAE President Walter Kim and Dr. Craig Keener explore the far-reaching implications of the gospel, including:*Why the gospel is not just about personal salvation, but also about community renewal;*How followers of Jesus are invited to participate in God’s redemptive work in the world; *A call for today’s Church to reflect more fully the vision and mission of Jesus; and *How a deeper understanding of the gospel inspires us to live with greater purpose and hope.Today’s Conversation is a podcast of the National Association of Evangelicals. Listen on your favorite podcast app.Show notes here: http://nae.org/keenerpodcastThis episode was sponsored by World Vision: http://WorldVision.org/nextgen25#Gospel #GoodNews #CraigKeener #Theology #NewTestament #Evangelicals #NAE 

Recent changes in government funding for international aid, coupled with public criticism of some faith-based organizations, have raised important questions. What responsibility does the government have in saving lives, especially those of non-citizens? Is it acceptable for Christian groups to receive government funding to further the public good?Michael Cerna, CEO of Accord Network, joins Today’s Conversation podcast, hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, to delve into these issues and more. In this episode, they also discuss:* How the foreign aid freeze impacts Christian nonprofits that do not receive federal funding;* What responsibilities governments have in caring for vulnerable people and enacting justice;* Examples of faith and government collaboration in the Bible; and* How Jesus’ perseverance in the face of adversity inspires hope.Show Notes: https://www.nae.org/michael-cerna-faith-and-hope-amidst-crisis/ (https://www.nae.org/michael-cerna-faith-and-hope-amidst-crisis/)

Have you ever found yourself stuck in a conflict that seems impossible to resolve? What if there was a way to break these cycles of intense conflict? Amanda Ripley joins Today’s Conversation to explore why some conflicts spiral out of control — and how we can shift the outcome.As our country grapples with such high levels of conflict, NAE President Walter Kim and Amanda Ripley, author of “High Conflict” and co-founder of Good Conflict, dive into how conflicts escalate, the psychology behind heated disagreements, and practical steps to transform high conflict into good conflict.You’ll also hear them discuss:* The factors that fuel high conflict in relationships and society;* Actionable steps to take in high-conflict moments, such as on an airplane or polling station;* Biblical examples of navigating high-conflict situations; and* How to enter into productive conflict through vulnerability and humility.Find the Show Notes Here: https://www.nae.org/aripleypodcast/ (https://www.nae.org/aripleypodcast/) ‎

It’s one thing to negotiate differences when you share a common moral framework. But how do you move forward with people who hold a completely different vision of the good life? John Inazu joins Today’s Conversation to discuss building bridges in a democracy, the role of the people of God in a pluralistic society, and the importance of empathy and forgiveness.In this episode, NAE President Walter Kim and John Inazu, a constitutional lawyer and professor of law and religion at Washington University, offer insights into building meaningful connections with others in pursuit of the common good, including:* How to model engagement rooted in hope;* The translation work needed to find common ground;* How the theological understanding of forgiveness shapes our interactions; and* Why it requires faith to both engage and to disengage.Show notes: https://www.nae.org/jinazupodcast (https://www.nae.org/jinazupodcast)

Much has been said about our increasingly polarized society. It seems we are becoming more entrenched in particular ideologies and less capable of understanding others. But are we as polarized as we think we are?Tim Dixon, co-founder of More in Common, joins Today’s Conversation to discuss what we do have in common, and how we can find more in common with others.In this conversation, NAE President Walter Kim and Tim Dixon discuss findings from More in Common's report, "Promising Revelations: Undoing the False Impressions of America's Faithful." The research sheds light on common misperceptions about communities of faith in America, including evangelicals.You'll also hear them discuss:*Where these misperceptions come from and what's at stake if they continue to be believed;*What can be done to build bridges and find unity;*How small moments of connection can shift perspectives; and*Why this work is especially worthwhile for followers of Jesus.Show notes: NAE.org/dixonpodcast#difficultconversations #polarization #moreincommon #peacemakers

Our context — whether political, cultural or social — often determines the lens by which we read Scripture, for better or for worse. Engaging with the global church expands our context and encourages us to ask fresh questions of the gospel and of Scripture. Riad Kassis joins Today’s Conversation from Beirut, Lebanon, bringing deep convictions of fidelity to Scripture and its application to lived experience.Riad Kassis, international director of Langham Partnership, shares how living in the Middle East has shaped his faith and reflects on his experience at the most recent Lausanne Gathering in Seoul, South Korea.You’ll also hear NAE President Walter Kim and Riad discuss:* Why theological resources for and by Majority World pastors is vital for the Church;* What biblical truths about persecution can reshape our minds and hearts;* Why justice is a matter of great importance to Christians in conflict areas; and* How we can stand with our brothers and sisters in Christ around the world.Show Notes : https://www.nae.org/kassispodcast/ (https://www.nae.org/kassispodcast/) 

What is the future of artificial intelligence, and how should Christians interact with it? Listen in to hear Andy Crouch, author and partner for theology and culture at Praxis, discuss AI’s potential to be a profound and fruitful extension of human image-bearing, as well as its potential to be destructive to human flourishing. In Today’s Conversation podcast, host NAE President Walter Kim and Andy discuss:* Different theories predicting how AI — including AGI and ASI — will develop in society;* Why we need a better theological framework — particularly around demonology — for the future of AI;* How AI could be redemptive for our physical health, relationships and more; and* Why the practice of Sabbath will mark people who flourish in this technological shift.Go To Show Notes: NAE.org/crouchpodcast

In a world where news is constantly streamed, the sheer amount of information can leave many of us feeling overwhelmed and unsure of how to filter what is true.  Bonnie Kristian, journalist and author of “The Knowledge Crisis” joins NAE President Walter Kim to discuss how this issue is leaking into churches and becoming a discipleship issue. Listen in to hear them discuss a way forward. In this episode of Today’s Conversation, journalist Bonnie Kristian and NAE President Walter Kim explore practical ways to engage with the surplus of information coming our way, and how to stay on guard in our discipleship to Jesus in the digital age. You’ll also hear Walter and Bonnie discuss: * The issue of “expertise” in the post-pandemic era; * Why having a depth of knowledge on a few topics vs. broad knowledge on all current issues may be more helpful; * The growing mindset of “conspiracism” and how to speak to it, or sometimes how to refrain from speaking to it; and * Other practical tips for staying grounded in truth.Click here for show notes: NAE.org/kristianpodcast (https://www.nae.org/kristianpodcast/)

The country is divided across class, racial, gender and political lines, and churches are not immune to this. Sometimes they even exemplify this division. How can pastors preach to a divided audience, and how can congregants remain active participants despite challenging differences?Dr. Matthew Kim, of Truett Seminary and co-author of “Preaching to a Divided Nation,” offers a way forward in this episode of Today's Conversation.

In the midst of deep political and cultural polarization, there remains an underutilized space: the middle. Shirley Mullen argues that this “middle” is not “bland averaging, moral cowardice or lazy indifference.” Instead the courageous middle is a daring way to live and work together for a more hopeful future.Shirley Mullen, president emerita of Houghton University, joins NAE President Walter Kim for Today’s Conversation podcast, and casts a vision for how each of us can claim the courageous middle in this election season and beyond.You’ll also hear Shirley and Walter discuss:* How active listening and bridge-building is central to the middle space;* Why being in the middle is labor intensive, but offers real possibilities for lasting change;* How institutions and individuals have navigated this space and seen fruit of their labors; and* Where those who feel disillusioned by polarization can find encouragement.For a complete list of show notes: NAE.org/mullenpodcast/ (http://NAE.org/mullenpodcast/)

The foundation of thriving communities is strong families. That idea resonates with many of us, but the data also demonstrates it. Join Dr. Brad Wilcox and NAE President Walter Kim as they confront common yet false narratives about marriage in society today.This conversation covers why marriage not only benefits those who have committed to forging strong marriages but also society as a whole. You’ll also hear Brad and Walter discuss:* The anti-family messaging that afflicts our culture today;* Why segments of society that forgo marriage face higher risk of deaths of despair;* Research-based encouragement for young people, in particular, to get married; and* Factors that go into forging a healthy and long-lasting marriage.Show notes can be found here: NAE.org/wilcoxpodcast/ (https://www.nae.org/wilcoxpodcast/)

Join us for a special episode of Today’s Conversation podcast with Bryan Stevenson and Bishop Derek Grier. Hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, the leaders discuss the promise of greatness that’s available to a society unburdened by hate, violence and discrimination.They talk about why we must reckon with the past in order to experience racial healing and reconciliation, and why the aspiration for a society that’s rooted in love, peace and joy is essential to the work of racial justice.You’ll also hear about a recent trip, hosted by National Unity Weekend and the National Association of Evangelicals, with 100 Christian leaders to the Legacy Museum in Montgomery, Alabama. Bryan shares his vision for the museum as a place of truth-telling where narratives are recovered and where people can grapple with dreadful elements of America’s history and at the same time be inspired by the perseverance of those who suffered.They also discuss:* How fear and power are barriers to racial reconciliation;* Why there can be no reconciliation without reckoning;* How the conviction in our hearts motivates change; and* How we can be liberated through repentance and experience redemption.Go to NAE.org/stevenson-grier-podcast (http://nae.org/stevenson-grier-podcast) for show notes.

What does it look like when the Church follows God into unknown territory? Hear Noemi Chavez, a pastor and the co-founder of Brave Global, share what happened when her church committed to serving and empowering at-risk girls, particularly in foster care and on probation.Hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, this conversation discusses leading and inspiring social change (despite feelings of inadequacy) and developing the next generation of leaders.You'll also hear Noemi share:-Why bravery is essential for healing and for meaningful witness;-How a faithful Christian presence opens doors for gospel transformation;-What it looks like to release control and empower young leaders; and-Why we must have a heart posture focused more on walking with Jesus than on outcomes.Get show notes here: NAE.org/chavezpodcast/ (NAE.org/chavezpodcast/)

What role do emotions have in our discipleship to Jesus? Dr. Anita Phillips, trauma therapist, minister and life coach, uses Jesus’ parable of the sower in Matthew 13 to show how emotions are the soil in the ground which allows the word of God, or the seed, to take root in our lives and transform us.This conversation, hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, discusses the importance of emotional health and how our emotions are not something we should fear, but instead something we should embrace.You’ll also hear Dr. Anita discuss: * How embracing our emotions is integral to our spiritual growth;* Recent discoveries in neurobiology that echo what we know in Scripture;* How Christians can lead in spaces of emotional well-being; and* The impact her book, “The Garden Within” has had in both faith-based and secular spheres.View show notes here: NAE.org/phillipspodcast (http://nae.org/phillipspodcast)