Kevin Kelly has spent 40 years asking one question: what is technology really?

He is the founding editor of Wired. His books have shaped how we think about innovation, the future of technology, and what works. His voice has been present at every major technological shift, from the early internet to AI today.

His influence has reached all the way to this podcast. His essays and ideas are often places we return to for deep thought and reflection. Kevin Kelly is the ultimate curiosity machine, and it was a pleasure to speak with him at length about his ideas, philosophies, and even his jokes.

In this conversation, Kevin thinks on paper with Mark and Jeremy about technology as the 7th kingdom of life, as real and alive as plants, animals, and fungi.

We get into:

• Why technology is not separate from us. Kevin argues that tools, machines, and AI are part of the same evolutionary process as biology. Technology is “nature accelerated.”

• The limits of top-down control. From DAOs to Wikipedia, Kevin explains why bottom-up systems thrive, but also why some hierarchy is unavoidable.

• AI as creativity, not imitation. He sees large language models as collaborators, capable of surprising outputs that extend human imagination.

• Artificial aliens. Rather than replicas of us, Kevin believes AIs will become their own kind of consciousness, different and alien but no less real.

• How tools shape thought. From writing to photography to AI, Kevin shows why every medium changes how we think, and why skill matters as much as the tool itself.

• The practice of wonder. He shares how noticing, gratitude, and “thinking like a Martian” keep curiosity alive in a world saturated with tech.

• Kevin Kelly is more than a futurist. He is a thinker who helps us see clearly, reminding us that technology is not a threat from outside but a living system we are already part of.

This is a must-watch for anyone who wants to see AI and technology not as hype or fear, but as part of life itself, the 7th kingdom of nature.

Please enjoy the show.

And remember: stay curious, be disruptive, keep thinking on paper. 

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Chapters

(00:00) Kevin Kelly On Nature And Technology

(02:59) Why Decentralized Systems Still Need Some Hierarchy

(09:03) Why DAOs Failed: Immutability Was a Bug

(16:46) Is AI Creative? (Yes) & The Coming Emotional Bonds

(21:39) AI Consciousness: A Spectrum of Artificial Aliens

(29:16) "Write to Discover What You Think"

(32:48) Balancing AI Tools & Human Thinking

(33:50) AI as a Skill & Powerful Thinking Partner

(37:50) Hot Buttons: Future, Bitcoin, Jurassic Park, Aliens?

(41:10) How to Cultivate Wonder (Hint: Be a Martian)

(49:10) The Power of Saying "I Don't Know"

(53:54) Kevin Kelly's Question: What Do We Want Humans To Be?