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Endurance has been one of the most hotly debated topics in sports science for over three decades. From early research in the 1930s to the ground-breaking 1996 address by Prof. Tim Noakes to the American College of Sports Medicine, understanding the principles of what keeps the body going during prolonged exercise is more complex than you think. In this episode, Mike and Ross take a look back at the often controversial history, Ross's own research journey and experience with Noakes and find out if it really is possible to push beyond our own endurance limits.
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SHOW NOTES
Tim Noakes' original JB Wolffe Lecture, that kicked it all off in 1996
The response by Bassett & Howley
Tim’s response to that rebuttal
By 2000, Noakes’ thinking had evolved, and he presented models for fatigue, published here
A paper by St Clair Gibson and Noakes on fatigue as a way to avoid “catastrophe"
The final chapter on Anticipatory Regulation in Ross’ PhD Thesis, published as a paper in BJSM
The really cool Amman study of fentanyl and performance
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A Spotlight dedicated to the news, as we split the Spotlight show into a news segment and a science segment. Today is the news segment, which covers:
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Show notes
In this Spotlight, we kick off with three doping stories in Discourse Digest. Ruth Chepngetich got a three year ban, up from two, then down from four, and keeps the marathon world record nobody believes in. We discuss why her case is so frustrating for sport. Imogen Simmonds has been cleared to compete despite an Anti Doping Rule Violation, after she convinced a panel that her positive test was the result of contamination by her partner during intimate contact. And Oier Lazkano has been provisionally suspended by the UCI for athlete biological passport (ABP) abnormalities that date back to 2022. Ross explains the biological passport principles, why a suspension based on the ABP is so rare, and why it might have taken this long to bring the case against Lazkano.
In Centre Stage (42:23), two papers on metabolic costs of exercise were published last week, with contradictory findings. We first explore a paper that proposes a metabolic limit of 2.5 our basal metabolic rate, and where that study fits into our understanding of exercise and metabolism. Then we consider another paper that contradicts that understanding by refuting the idea that our bodies constrain certain metabolic functions when we exercise in the equivalent of what Ross calls 'physiological austerity'. We try to explain why these studies contradict one another, the importance of energy balance in metabolism, and why there's a bit of truth in both models on opposite sides of the issue.
Our Listener Lens (1:10:12) is inspired by a question from Leon, who asks about using heat as a way to increase cardiovascular stress without overloading his legs. We discuss how heat may be beneficial even without that cardiovascular benefit, why HR may not be the best metric to judge intensity against, and how the approach might be a handy hack, but only part of the approach with a few words of caution.
And Finally (1:20:52), Gareth wonders whether the sub-2 hour marathon is more impressive than the sub-11 hour 100 mile record?
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In this week's show, we tackle intriguing physiological questions raised by listeners, explore whether different types of exercise interfere with one another to undermine training benefits, and run the Spotlight across stories from the sports world.
In Digest this week (10:02):
Our Center Stage topic (45:19) is a paper that explores a phenomenon called "the interference effect", where different types of exercise aimed at endurance or power/strength, have been thought to cancel each other out, undermining the adaptations from training. We explain the origins of that theory, and explore why things are not necessarily as simple as they seemed, with some practical advice for all those who like to mix their training types.
In Listener Lens (1:08:33), Ali Robinson showcases what Discourse has to offer, making a fantastic observation about our most recent guest, cyclist Andrew Feather, and his physiological capacity. He introduces us to concepts of anaerobic capacity, or the W prime, and Ross explains how we can all use this concept (runners too!) to understand our performance limits, and design effective interval training sessions, including a challenge to Gareth to test his capacity and design training.
And Finally, we introduce a paper on a metabolic ceiling that limits endurance athletes, with a promise to explore it in a future Spotlight edition
Show notes
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Forty-year-old lawyer Andrew Feather hit the news headlines recently when he 'beat' Tadej Pogacar in an exhibition handicap uphill cycle race. Even though Feather may not have actually ridden the Pogi challenge faster than the world number 1 (he won by three minutes after getting a six minute head start with the rest of the amateur field), his performance was still staggering given that he is an amateur with all the pressures of a full-time job and a family eating into his time. Feather is arguably one of the most celebrated non-professionals in the world and, as a four-time British Hill Climb champion, has the palmares to prove it. In this interview, Feather shares his insights into training, racing and dropping weight when it matters.
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Show notes
This week on Spotlight, we dive DEEP into the world of physiology, pacing, fatigue and the brain. Using some enthralling races from Kona and Chicago at the weekend, and your Discourse questions and comments, we explore how pacing 'errors' happens, and the physiological consequences of those mistakes. We kick off of with our Discourse Digest segment (00:00) and news that Femke Bol will take a swing at the 800m next year. An exciting development, but what will it involve in terms of training and tactics, and what can we expect from the Dutch star?
We then move on to the Chicago Marathon (15:56), won by Jacob Kiplimo, emerging as a real star of the Marathon. His success contained a very specific type of "failure" though, as he was on course to break the World Record right up to 35km, and then...physiology hit. Ross explains how fragile pacing is for elite marathoners, and why physiology collected on its 'loan' for Kiplimo. Another physiological "failure" happened in the Kona Ironman (29:26) where Lucy Charles-Barclay and Taylor Knibb raced so aggressively that they first rode and then ran each other to the point of proverbial physiological destruction. We explore how pacing in the context of a warm day caused those dramatic scenes.
In Centre Stage (44:57), it's all about the carbs. Tim Noakes has a paper arguing that you need only 10g/h of glucose during exercise. He uses his "Central Governor" model to explain how the brain is monitoring and regulating blood glucose level to protect the brain, such that the 90g per hour or more being consumed by elites is wasteful and unnecessary, part of an 'old model'. We don't see it the same way, and Ross explains concepts of regulation of performance by the brain, a subject he did his PhD thesis on. We discuss heat, altitude, and fuel, to unpack how the truth behind fatigue, performance and pacing regulation, unlocking more insight on those pacing implosions in Chicago and Kona.
In Ross Replies (1:06:59), listener Ian asks a great question about using data from a specific test where you lie down then stand up, and use HR to tell you how recovered you are. Ross explains why that test exists, its limitations, and offers tips for how to make more of data, while avoiding some traps.
And Finally (1:21:31), we see again that cycling is allergic to the truth, Gareth learns the truth about NZ Rugby Representation, and we tip our hats to Natalie Grabow.
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Show notes
It's a Bro-Science discussion today, as listener David inspired debate with a post on his epic Zone 2 indoor ride, and got us thinking - how do we spot Bro Science? Is it all bad? What are the alarm bells that should make us cautious, and how can we learn from the experiences and anecdotes of other people while staying credible. That's our Center Stage topic (47:45).
Before that, we whip around the world for a Discourse Digest (1:38) that looks at NCAA 'trafficking' in Kenyan athletes, a win-win, but also maybe a loss for some. We talk Caster Semenya's off-now-on case to fight for inclusion into women's sport, and explore why it's about male advantage, not natural advantage. We also visit rugby, where head impacts and concussions are the focus of a big new study, a new player load guideline, and a link with neurodegenerative diseases in the wake of sad news of Lewis Moody's MND diagnosis.
In Ross Replies (1:05:45), Gareth asks about training when fatigued, inviting discussion about the body's physiological resource budget, and how we spend it on stress as opposed to recovery. Listener Lens (1:11:41) fields another listener question, this time from Gianni, about the importance, or necessity, of breakfast before training. And Finally (1:14:52), Tua Tagavailoa has been advised that to prevent concussions, he needs more carbs. It's an idea detached from both reality and theory, but we discuss how it might have come about, and how ideas without basis become entrenched by unquestioning media and public.
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Show notes
In Spotlight this week, we look back at a packed weekend of sports action and offer insights on the big events. We kick it off with the AFL (1:39), where the Grand Final was played, and where listener Josh sent in an article exploring how the body shape and size of players have evolved over the years. Gareth wonders whether the players adapt to the game, or whether the game adapts to the athleticism of its players, and Ross explains the physiological equivalent of 'form follows function'.
Then we move to Rugby (9:56), where England were crowned World Champions at the weekend, crowing an unbeaten World Cup cycle in which they've averaged 50 points a match and not lost a single match. The final wasn't exactly smooth sailing, and Gareth and Ross share some thoughts on what impressed us, and where Canada may have fallen short, with hopes for continued growth in the game.
From Rugby to cycling for a brief last look back at the Rwanda World Champs (23:10), but where off-bike news in the form of the UCI back-pedal on handlebar widths and other policy changes are the main focus of conversation.
Cycling gives way to golf (38:48), and the Ryder Cup, which looked like a foregone conclusion until it wasn't, and one of the year's great sports spectacles unfolded in New York. We learn how Europe used data analytics and simulations to optimize its foursome and fourball combinations, and wonder when data becomes a hinderance as opposed to a helper in sport?
In response to a spate of serious ACL injuries in the NFL and in football (51:58), Gareth wonders whether something is happening, perhaps related to the training and conditioning of athletes, or the turf, to increase ACL injury risk? Ross is less sure, explaining how rare injuries can throw up misleading 'patterns', compounded by media bias.
We wrap up with some doping stories (55:52), including the CAS decision in the case of Erriyon Knighton, who was initially cleared of doping when he was able to show contamination of an oxtail meal he consumed. But CAS didn't see it the same way, and he got a four year ban because of their interpretation of the pharmacokinetics and the relative levels of the banned substance in the oxtial compared to in his urine. We also go to Kenya, where an athlete admitted not only to taking EPO, but explaining how he obtained it. Whether it's a truthful account is anyone's guess.
And finally (1:03:16), the NFL came to (Dublin) town last weekend, and the juxtaposition of some high profile rugby players and the NFL kicked off a conversation comparing the two sports. We end with a semi lighthearted look at the helmet and pad culture of American Football, and offer thoughts on why rugby's lack of protective equipment doesn't necessarily make it more dangerous.
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The 2025 UCI World Road Cycling Championships in Kigali, Rwanda, delivered plenty of drama and debate, and SOS host Mike Finch was there to witness the action first-hand and ask if this was the best championships of the century. We also have the post-race interviews with the big stars and discuss whether Remco Evenepoel can really upset the two-time World Champion Tadej Pogacar at the upcoming European championships on October 5 and the season-ending Il Lombardia a week later.
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Spotlights are our weekly show that wraps up the news and the topics that you, the listener, are discussing in our VIP Discourse community. To become a member, to join the conversation, learn from the best online sports science community, or simply to show your support for the pod, you can make a small monthly pledge at Patreon.
Show notes
The Spotlight is back! This week, our Discourse Digest kicks off the show with a look back on a hugely successful Rugby World Cup, and a look forward to the weekend's final between England and Canada. Ross picks England by ten, Gareth thinks Canada pull off a heist in the home of English Rugby. Who is your pick?
We also discuss an article by Sean Ingle, that revealed that between 50 and 60 athletes with DSDs had been identified by World Athletics since 2000. Ross explains how these athletes were identified, what they were required to do in order to compete, and why their number supports the introduction of screening of all athletes who enter women's sport.
In Center Stage (29:08) we look back at Tokyo's World Championships one last time. We nominate our best athletes, best performances, biggest surprises, best events, most impressive comebacks, and 'winners and losers' from a championships that we both scored very highly for entertainment and intrigue.
Ross Replies (1:00:26) remains focused on Tokyo, and a question from Neil about the rarity of 400m-800m doubles in elite athletics, and how the 800/1500m combination seems to have been replaced by a 1500m/5000m pairing. Ross discusses the physiological differences, with some fascinating insights on pacing strategies in 800m world records, a limit to how fast the second lap can be run, and how shoes and changes to qualification criteria may have tilted the balance in favour of the 1500m athletes against the track distance specialists.
And Finally (1:12:09), celebrities who run marathons end our show, with a recent impressive Berlin sub-3:00 performance the catalyst. We wonder who the most recognized name is in the world who has run a sub-3 marathon?
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On the Track today
Tokyo 2025 is a wrap! On the final day, the surprises continued, as Kenya's Lilian Odira beat favourite Keely Hodgkinson to win the 800m title, securing a first ever sweep for Kenyan women. Cole Hocker did what 1500m athletes do, as he outkicked the field in a tactically intriguing Men's 5000m to redeem himself after his 1500m disappointment. And the relay gold medals were won by the USA, with one exception in a fabulous 4 x 400m for men, that confirmed Busang Kebinatshipi as a global super star.
In our final show, Gareth and Ross wrap up the action, and reflect on a week full of surprises.
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On the Track today
In track action today, the middle and long distance titans clashed, as Faith Kipyegon raced Beatrice Chebet over 5000m. A tactically intriguing race with so many potential plays didn't really deliver on its promise, as Chebet once again produced an unrivalled sprint finish after a fairly bland race to claim a World Champs double to go with her Paris titles.
The men's 800m produced arguably the best race of the Champs so far, as Kenya's Emmanuel Wanyonyi, led from the front, and dragged 7 others to historically fast times, with three going under 1:42, and all 8 breaking 1:43.
We also look at relay qualification carnage, where the USA, Jamaica, South Africa and GB failed to finish or were eliminated in one of either the 4 x 100m or 4 x 400m heats.
We also cover the field event medals, and look ahead to the final day.
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On the Track today
Having missed Day 6 due to travel woes, we take a look back the highlights from Tokyo on Thursday, which included a historically fast women's 400, won by Sydney McLauglin Levrone's 47.78s, in a performance the brings Marita Koch's world record within striking distance. The Men's 400m saw a surprise winner, as Busang Kebanatshipi ran another PB and WL to win from Jereem Richards.
The Friday action saw the 400m hurdles golds won by Rai Benjamin and Femke Bol. The latter was imperious and faultless, but Benjamin's win was not without controversy. We explore the DQ and then re-instatement of the Olympic and now World Champion and explore Karsten Warholm's failure to win a medal. Track action concludes with the 200m titles, where Noah Lyles defended his title to win a 4th consecutive gold, while Melissa Jefferson-Wooden doubled to do what only three other women had ever done.
Plus field event drama, and previews of Saturday's action in our latest Tokyo daily!
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On the Track today
The Race we’d all been waiting for, and it didn’t fail to deliver! It did, however, deliver a major surprise, as Isaac Nader became 1500m world champion. Ross and Gareth discuss the race, exploring how it unfolded, what happened to the big favourites, none of whom been made the podium after a week of drama and attrition.
We also discuss a fast, brutal women’s steeplechase, with analysis of the intersection of technique and fatigue, and the cost of being too aggressive for two of the pre race favourites.
Finally, we look ahead to the 400m finals, and in particular, how fast Sydney McLaughlin Levine can go? Gareth predicts a World Record, Ross thinks just outside 48, and we dive into the pacing, fatigue physiology and technical elements of the event to unpack what we can expect to see tomorrow.
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On the Track today
It was a day for the pre-event favourites to deliver in Tokyo. Faith Kipyegon produced a near- perfect display of front-running to win yet another major 1500m title. Cordell Tinch broke 13 to make his 110m hurdle win look routine. Hamish Kerr and Ethan Katzberg won the High Jump and Hammer Throw respectively, and Syndey McLaughlin Levrone put the 400m world record on notice in winning her semi-final.
We explore and unpack those performances, and look ahead to the men's 1500m final, which features tactical intrigue and a possible final 200m showdown between Josh Kerr and Niels Laros, with Gareth and Ross picking a dark-horse who may spoil that party.
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On the Track today
A remarkable day, with gold and silver split by 0.03s in one of the great marathons, surprise gold medals in the Men's Steeplechase and Women's 100m hurdles, and a disappointing disqualification in the men's 1500m.
Also on the menu today, Ross completely misses a World Record, we explain the fragility of tactics in the middle distance events, and look ahead to tomorrow's finals, wondering how Kipyegon will set about winning her 1500m gold.
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On the Track today
The fastest man and woman in the world were crowned on track in Tokyo today. Could Lyles defend his 100m crown and continue the US dominance of the event, or would the Jamaicans wrestle control back? Would the season-long dominance of Jefferson-Wooden turn into a maiden world title against Olympic champ Alfred?
Speaking of sprinting, the women's marathon came down to a sprint, with a surprise medalist joining two pre-race favourites on the podium. And speaking of surprises, the men's 10000m had plenty! We also had the elimination of three big favourites in Round 1 of the Men's 1500m, semi-finals in the women's 1500m, a first look at the 400m women, and a host of field events.
Ross and Gareth dissect the action from Day 2 in Tokyo, and look ahead to Day 3's action.
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On the Track today
The first gold medals were contested on track today, with the women's 10000m and mixed 4 x 400m relays kicking off the gold rush. We dissect those races, discussing how they were won, whether the favourites lived up to their billing, and who made tactical errors that may have cost them?
We also look ahead to Day 2, which will feature the crowning of new 100m champions. Can Lyles defend, or do Jamaican take back the title, and does Jefferson-Wooden hold off Julien Alfred? The Women's Marathon and the men's 10000 are also up for grabs, and we look ahead to the favourites and likely storylines.
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Show notes
In this (supposed to be) quick Spotlight we look back and forward at the Women’s Rugby World Cup (02:08) and how the lack of competitive matches may be dulling the appetite and how the game can grow. We discuss a concussion and a card which may have implications for the quarter finals and examine why there are so few coaches at the top level of women's rugby. While Gareth is shocked by only three in the World Cup and zero in the Women's Premiership, Ross explains why it takes time for the knowledge and experience to filter through and change will come more slowly that we might think.
In Center Stage (17:30), we take another look back at the Malcolm Gladwell podcast, but through the eyes of the Discourse members, who like Gareth, focused on the topics which the rest of the internet forgot in their trans debate frenzy. Does Gladwell really think Hodgkinson might be doping? Why compression of adolescence is such a good term for an important concept, and why Gladwell backs the 'whimsical' suggestion of banning parents from live sports events, even knowing it to be unfeasible? Did Gladwell mislead on the relative age distribution theory? Is his bridging of the gap between journalism and science valid? Do athletes have a responsibility to entertain? So many gems, so little time.
And Finally, (42:58), we look forward to the first of the athletics World Championship finals - the 4x400 mixed relay and the women's 10000 metres, and make a few predictions.
Show Notes
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