Summary:

This past May, Lexi Kruggel graduated from the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota with her Masters in Clinical Social Work. She is now a Licensed Graduate Social Worker (LGSW) and very recently started working as a Mental Health Counselor.   Lexi has a passion for serving others, specifically those struggling with their mental health. This passion started to develop early on in her life as she witnessed loved ones and others in her community struggle with mental illness.

Lexi is also open about her struggles with her own mental  health and how they have shaped her life, both personally and professionally.   One thing she has learned throughout her lived experiences is how important it is to find the things in life that bring us joy, no matter how big or small, and integrate them into our daily lives. A few of the things that bring Lexi joy are playing guitar, getting snuggles from her cat Oliver, golfing, and spending quality time with loved ones.

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Shownotes:

[00:00:16.660] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Hi.

[00:00:16.950] - Pat Sheveland, Host

I would like everybody to be introduced to my new friend. My new friend is Lexie, Lexie Krugel. Just want to give you a little background on Lexie before we dive right in and just have a conversation. This past May, Lexie graduated from the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota with her master's degree in clinical social work. That is pretty awesome. She's now a licensed graduate social worker in LGSW and very recently started working as a mental health counselor at Guild Crisis and Recovery Center in Savage, Minnesota. She has a passion for serving others, especially those struggling with their mental health. This passion started to develop early on in her life, as I'm sure she'll share in a little bit, as she witnessed loved ones and others in her community struggle with mental illness. Lexie is also very open about her own struggles with her own mental health and how they have shaped her life, both personally and professionally. One of the things that she has learned throughout her lived experiences is how important it is to find the things in life that bring us joy, no matter how big or small, and integrate them into our daily lives. Amen. Amen. A few of the things that bring Lexie joy are playing guitar, getting snuggles from her cat, Oliver, golfing, and spending quality time with loved ones. That is so beautiful. Thank you so much for being a guest and visiting with me.

[00:01:42.180] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Thank you for having me.

[00:01:43.610] - Pat Sheveland, Host

Your first venture into having a conversation. I'm sure you probably have with other people, but here is just... I just want to share with the people who will be watching this. The reason why I reached out to Lexie is I met her mom, I know her mom, and we just were having a conversation. And I talk about what I do and helping families heal, find healing in their grief. And grief has a lot of different tentacles and can show up in a lot of different ways. And I was talking about how I work with parents who have experienced the death of a child and how we have to work on reframing because when a child usually when they come to me and if the child has died by suicide, we have to work on some reframing on that because there's so much guilt and not a lot of anger, but so much guilt about, we should have been able to see this. We should have been able to stop this. We should have been able to should have, should have, could have, would have, all of those things. And for many families, they can get stuck in that place.

[00:02:50.290]

And so we were just talking about that. And there's been a lot of experience in Lexie's circle between family, friends, neighbors, all of that type of thing. So she agreed to do this interview with me. Lexie, again, I am just so happy that we can have this conversation. Thank you. And we're just going to go with the flow with what you're comfortable with.

[00:03:11.800] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Sounds good.

[00:03:12.790] - Pat Sheveland, Host

I go from there. Maybe we should just start about your lived experiences because I know that there's been a lot and you don't have to go into great detail, but just share a little bit about what you have experienced in a fairly young life.

[00:03:28.790] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

So far. Yeah, absolutely. So like you said, we're being in my little bio there, it started when I was fairly young. So in our neighborhood where I grew up, we had a couple of young boys that died by suicide. And so that was my first encounter with losing people that I know to suicide. And so that happened when I was in middle school, early high school. And then I also, throughout that time, was experiencing my own depression and anxiety. I didn't have those labels for it at that point, but I just knew that I was hurting and struggling. And it was this weird, conflicting thing that was happening. I was seeing those around me in my community struggling and losing their life to that struggle. And then also dealing with my own internal struggle and trying to make sense of my own thoughts and my own feelings and having thoughts and then seeing what the aftermath was and just dealing with that conflict at a very young age right away in middle school. Fast forward to a little bit later in high school, and I actually had a family member that died by suicide as well.

[00:04:31.110] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

And so another encounter with that happening to a loved one. And again, same thing was happening for me internally. I was not getting any better. I was still struggling with my own thoughts, my own urges, and just felt so conflicted in that of seeing what happens when people are left behind after suicide, but also experiencing the very real and difficult experience of that in myself and having thoughts. And there's so many things that come along with that. And so at some point on my 21st birthday, that time period, the struggle just got really big. And I had my own attempt, and luckily I survived, and I get to be here today, and I get to sit here, and I get to have this conversation, right? So I just want to take a moment to be grateful for that. And so that's the trajectory of it started with just my community. And parallel to that was my own struggle and then making it through those years and losing people. And then it came to a point for myself where it just got really big. And I was lucky enough to be able to survive it and hopefully get to use it now first in this conversation.

[00:05:38.710]

And I'm hopeful that in my career and whoever this life takes me, that I get to continue using it for something bigger than just me. So that's a little intro to some of my experiences.

[00:05:48.920] - Pat Sheveland, Host

Oh, wow. When you think about this starting out as a middle school child and all the developmental things going on, all the hormonal change, all the different things that go on within that period of time and then to experience tragedy of such proportion because the unexpected death of someone. And there's a lot of labels. That's when I've worked with my clients and I'm just finishing up my book. I'm teaching coaches how to be more confident grief coaches so that they can... We need more people who are willing to have these conversations and sit and hold the container in the space for people who are the ones that survive their families. Those that are, did you say, left behind is the ones that are left behind. But when I'm working with the families, the biggest struggle is I think that there is a stigma attached. And so I'm thinking of one couple, their son had a successful suicide. And there was a lot of reasons for it going up to that point. He had some physical issues. As I said, I'm writing in my book, I talked about what happened in their case and everything that happened.

[00:07:02.300]

And we really had to work on the anger came really from how other people would stigmatize this when their child was a beautiful young man. And it was probably more of a death by despair thing because of what happened with his chemical makeup and all of that at the time. But that was really hard in the aftermath is not having the support system that they felt that they could really talk to anybody in their community because they felt like there was a judgment attached to this.

[00:07:35.220] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Absolutely.

[00:07:35.390] - Pat Sheveland, Host

Do you agree with that?

[00:07:36.190] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's interesting because I have the perspective of being someone who has lost people and so has been someone who's left behind. And I've also been the person who took those actions and affected people in my own life. And I think in my own healing process, after what I went through, part of the journey was being able to differentiate myself from my illness. And I think that's a huge part of the stigma is we have conversations like Lexie did this to herself. Lexie attempted to take her life. Lexie tried to leave this Earth. Lexie was going to leave us behind. How could she do that when we love her so much? And I think for me, and I think this would be helpful for those left behind as well of reframing that to like, it was the illness that did that. It was not Lexie. I just don't believe that it was me, my soul that chose to do that. I was in pain. I was struggling. I had a mental illness. Depression is a powerful force. And so I started to reframe that for myself of like, my depression did this.

[00:08:35.240]

My depression is what led me to do that. And I think that helped me a lot in being able to move through my own shame and guilt and stigma. And I think it could potentially be helpful for those that are left behind to be able to think about their loved one in that way, but also then those trying to support someone who has lost them and realize that when someone dies from cancer, we're not like, how could they do that to us? We flood them with food and cards and flowers. But when it's suicide, that's oftentimes not the case. And I think it's slowly getting better. The stigma is getting less, but it's definitely, like you were saying, still very alive and well. So that reframe, I guess, is what I was thinking about when you were sharing that.

[00:09:16.650] - Pat Sheveland, Host

I love that. Excuse me, the whole reframing of it because that's a big part of what I work with my clients. And what I'm teaching new grief coaches to do, it's about that reframing process because a lot of times we're not going to know. Excuse me. A lot of times there are no notes. There's nothing that said, this is why I did this. It's an action that all of a sudden it's just like total overwhelm from what I've heard. And there may have been planning up to it, but we can put on these personas to. Be fine through that. And in the case of the one couple where their son died, he was fine. I mean, he seemed just fine and everything was fine. And then he went off to lunch and he never came back. That was their biggest thing. And so it was the reframing. And again, it wasn't about that he did this act. I love that it's an illness, it's a disease. His happened to be a physiological disease that also the depression came through because of that. Now his mother is very adamant that we need to go out and teach our medical providers. We need to teach our school systems that when people have diseases like diabetes, depression can come right beside it, and we have to be able to address all of it, the whole scope, not just the physical diabetes. But it is a disease and depression is. It's absolutely a disease and you can do it. Right. Go ahead. You go ahead. I was just going to say I work with a children's grief camp, so we have kids and their families come twice a year to a children's grief camp. And we are very clear that we also don't use the term committed because it's like, no, it's death by suicide.

[00:11:05.510]

We're very careful about how we frame that also just to make sure that because it's not like a...

[00:11:11.920] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

A criminal act.

[00:11:12.690] - Pat Sheveland, Host

A criminal act. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So you go ahead.

[00:11:16.270] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

No, I appreciate you bringing that up and clarifying that because I even still hear the language committed within my profession and in my career. And I've only done two internships since my first job. So I want to clarify that I'm a baby social worker. But I still hear that language even in mental health settings of committed suicide. And so I appreciate you clarifying that it's died by suicide. I can't remember exactly where I was going before that, but it must not have been... It'll come back to me if it was really important.

[00:11:44.620] - Pat Sheveland, Host

Right. So I think that's an important thing when we're talking about how do we support those who are left behind. And I love that terminology for the families, the friends, the loved ones who are left behind and who are grappling because they're not in the person's head who has had taken the action. And it's very hard to know. So reframing that and understanding that it's not the person, it's not your loved one, it's not your loved one. It's chemical imbalances, it's diseases that are creating confusion and a belief that maybe things will be different. That won't be a burden on others, that type of thing. What else would you recommend for those who are left behind? Because you were left behind a lot of different time with your neighborhood friends and a family member that you would recommend, and with your social work education, that you would recommend for families and friends what they should do, especially in the immediate aftermath of the event that just happened?

[00:12:55.580] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Yeah. I think because of the stigma and shame and all of those things that come along when you lose someone to suicide. I think there tends to be like, you feel like you don't have the right to grieve or you don't have the right to experience what anyone else experiences when they lose a loved one. Somehow it's different for you because of how they left. And I remember feeling that myself, too, especially when it was my family member that I lost and feeling like, for some reason, I couldn't have the same space, I guess, to experience my grief and also the complicated nature that losing the grief is when you lose someone by suicide. It's not just straightforward grief. All grief is messy, I want to say that too. But the sudden loss that suicide often is complicates it. Would you. Agree with that?

[00:13:42.190] - Pat Sheveland, Host

Absolutely. It is a very complicated grief and you don't have the answers. That's probably the most difficult thing for someone who is left behind is because you can't get into that your loved one's head, like what led up to this? You may know peripherally or you know that there might have been challenges, but to get to that point, and it's a shock.

[00:14:03.350] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Absolutely.

[00:14:03.860] - Pat Sheveland, Host

Absolutely shock when it happens because it happens so unexpectedly, it feels like.

[00:14:08.950] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Yeah, for sure. I think part of that is trying to find a way and finding people in your life and surrounding yourself with people that acknowledge your loss for what it is, a loss, a real loss that is overwhelming and unimaginable. And you have every right to, in that support you and remind you that you have every right to experience all that grief is, the horrible parts of it, all of it. You have that right to experience it. And it's hard to remember that yourself. And so I think it's so important that whether it's professional help or you have a support network that's already around you and family and friends, making sure that they hold that belief too and acknowledge your loss for what it is, I think is really important. That's one thing that came to my mind when you asked that question.

[00:14:55.270] - Pat Sheveland, Host

Well, and then thinking about that because I was talking to your mom and she was talking about a neighbor boy, right? And how she slept in his room after she just literally just moved in with them for a little bit of time just to be there during this most dramatic time after that. And one of the things that I have as part of my, I call my program the breathe method. It's to help grievers walk through, learn some tools and have some internal resources. But also how do they create the framework and the structure around them. And one of them, I call it creating your tribe. And it's not the cutesy little tribe, like, oh, let's go for a glass of wine, girlfriends. This is like a truly a tribal community. And I recommend that they don't use family members, immediate family members, because your family members are grieving just as deeply and are just as in shock. So to hold that base and that container for you to be, as you were saying, to totally be able to grieve in the way that's necessary for you. So I encourage them to go find two to three people.

[00:16:04.170]

Really, I have them do just a little meditation and think about who are the two to three people that come to your mind that you know will absolutely embrace you, love you, honor everything that you're going through. So it may be a counselor, maybe someone like me, a coach, or a neighbor like your mom going in and just being there and just find those two to three people and having a conversation with them saying, This is what I need. This is really what's going to work for me. Are you willing to do that for me and create what I call a treaty, an agreement that these two to three people are absolutely going to be holding you together in your grief? Because I just think it's just so critical. And family members are wonderful, but you can be so enveloped in your own grief that they may not have the capacity to hold you in yours.

[00:16:56.070] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

They're hurting just as much. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:16:59.150] - Pat Sheveland, Host

So this is a wonderful conversation because I think it's just so important. T hat's why I reached out to you is how can I help those who are left behind, especially parents and siblings, to maybe have a different way to reframe, to have a different understanding because you have been so deeply involved in it on both aspects, both spectrums. So talk to me a little bit about you and your passion. Do you think this is what shaped you to go into social work? It's your experiences and what's your hope? You talked a little bit about that in the beginning, but what is your hope of what you're going to be bringing to the world because of your lived experiences?

[00:17:46.680] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Yeah, I do think that it's why I chose the career path that I chose. I remember just always having this knowing inside that I didn't have a title for it. I didn't have social worker as the title that I would have, but I knew I wanted to serve people and I wanted to be able to give back in some way. And that was even before I knew what I was going to be giving back. I hadn't experienced all of my own struggles yet. And from a very young age, I just felt that. And then I went through middle school and high school and lost people and struggled. And then ultimately, I think when I had my attempt and I survived and I realized that I had this chance, the second chance is what it felt like, to be able to then do something with what I've experienced. And I'm going to keep experiencing things. I'm only 24. And so to be able to continue to use those things. As far as how, I think that's still to be determined a little bit. We talked about that a little bit when we first met of this conversation feels like a start of how do I use my story?

[00:18:53.290] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

How do I use what I've been through for something bigger than just me? Because I know I'm not the one, far from the only one. I'm far from the only one. And i spent a lot of time thinking about what I needed when I was struggling, like, what was I looking for that I didn't have? Because I use that lens to try and in a way of prevention. The goal is suicide is a preventable thing. And so that's the ultimate goal is how do we prevent it and how do we change how things are right now for youth and adults and those that are losing their lives to suicide. And when I thought about that, the thing that I was missing was someone who really got what it was like, who really felt, but already been through or was experiencing that depth of depression, who had those thoughts, who understood that it was an illness, that it was beyond our control, that it's overwhelming, right? Who understood all of those things. I never was able to have a conversation or to go on Google and find something like a talk or a book from someone like that.

[00:19:51.600]

And I'm sure they exist. I'm sure they do. But I feel like if it's not readily accessible, if it's not easily known about, then there's not enough of it. And so if I can be a part of that in some way, I don't know what that's going to look like exactly, but to be able to use my voice as a person who's lost people, as a person who was in that place that I almost lost my own life to that, I feel like there's a reason that both of those positions, I held those in my life. And I'm hoping that I can use that unique perspective, I guess.

[00:20:19.150] - Pat Sheveland, Host

Absolutely.

[00:20:20.240] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

For whatever happens in the future.

[00:20:23.240] - Pat Sheveland, Host

I'm just thinking of middle schoolers. I mean, we have such... Just feels like some ramped up situations in our world. I think about these kids, you were just a little kid, and dealing with all of that. And there's so many that are 12, 11, 12, 13 that they just feel like this is too much to be here. I don't think we have all the answers. I think that there's lots of really awesome groups out there, and it's getting better and expanding. But how do we create the space for those who are feeling as those thoughts and all of those things like, hey, I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one. And to be able to have facilitators and people who have actually been able to use their lived experiences to say, Hey, it doesn't have to be this way. And I think there's people that are absolutely out there doing it.

[00:21:23.480] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

For sure.

[00:21:23.920] - Pat Sheveland, Host

But it's not enough. It's like me with grief coaching, it's like, That's great, but a lot of people don't want to talk about this stuff. We have to educate so that we have more people that are willing to sit at the table and say, Okay, let's just facilitate a conversation and open it up. Because the healing that I see, I'm all about healing family grief. I'm not healing them, but to create the space and the ability to be seen and heard is so incredibly healing. It's such a deep part of the healing process. I'm really excited to see what you do in your life. And you and I talk. There's lots of lots of different groups out there and all of that that I'll be flooding you with. Hey, here's another one you may want to talk at or whatever you may want to be doing down the road. But I'm just so grateful that you have taken that you're here. I'm grateful that you're here. Thank you. And that you have taken what you've experienced and you now are paying it forward in a beautiful, healing, loving way. That's a beautiful thing.

[00:22:29.010] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. I have one thought when you were talking here for a little bit. You were talking about making room for this healing and creating space. I think that's, I don't know, something that I feel like society has so many limits on our human experience. You can feel things, you can be sad, but just don't be too sad and get over it within 72 hours and get back to work mentality. And that happens in so many areas of our life, whether it's emotions or identity or whatever that is. And I think there's just so many predetermined boxes and limits that are holding us, I don't know, almost hostage inside of ourselves. We don't feel like there's enough space for our entire experience on a daily basis to be felt and lived and shared. And as I reflect hindsight, I feel like that also was just a huge part of one of the biggest factors in what ultimately led to what happened is just I always felt like my emotions, there wasn't enough space or my identities, I couldn't fully express them and feel safe in doing so. And so whatever that is for each human, whether it's sexuality or gender or a very sensitive person, they feel like they feel a lot and there just isn't space for it.

[00:23:40.030]

My hope is that, and I think the world is getting a little bit better with that, but that we continue to make more space for... Because we're all going through it. It's just some of us are maybe in denial that it's not happening, or I don't know what's all happening. And I don't know exactly where that thought was going, but that is what I was thinking when you were saying that.

[00:23:57.700] - Pat Sheveland, Host

Well, that is. I love that because especially in the world that we've been living in for the past, probably for centuries, but it just all of a sudden has blown up, imploded. The acknowledgements are out there now. There's a lot of anger, there's a lot of frustration, but that's all because of all this build up of not having a space to freely be who we are and to explore, to explore who we are because everything does feel predetermined. And that's my goal, too, is I also am very big in that trying to find a way to express, acknowledge, explore, peel back the layers of ancestral wounding and that type of thing, because I think a lot of that we bring forward and the beliefs and the limiting beliefs that we bring forward in our families and our communities that we need to just... It feels like structures are crumbling away. The Florida, as we're doing this, the building in Florida just crumbled and it's awful. It's an awful tragedy. But it's almost like our structure is just crumbling away now. And hopefully that there's some positive out of these structures crumbling away, the limiting beliefs and all of that that we're opening it up to, as you said, everything that we're dealing with and the emotions inside of us, the sexuality, the racial, all of the different things, the cultural beliefs that we can open it up, expand all of our heart to just say, let's just be curious.

[00:25:31.700]

Let's understand. I love that. Be curious and understand, not judge, but just be curious and work to understand one another because we are all part of this beautiful universe. No one is better or worse than anybody else. Amen. Yes. Amen. Absolutely. Okay. Well, do you have any last little tidbit that you want to share before we close on our interview? This is just so beautiful. I'm just really pleased to spend this the other day morning with you.

[00:26:01.370] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Yes. No, I feel the same. No, I don't think I have anything else bouncing around in my head right now. I appreciate where this conversation went and just you holding space for it. And I get to be a part of it. So I'm just grateful.

[00:26:13.550] - Pat Sheveland, Host

We're going to still be connecting a lot down the road. Of course. I see that happening for sure. For sure. Okay, I'm going to turn off the recording. And for everybody who's listening, thank you so much for listening. And remember, hold the space. Be a large container. I don't even like to say container anymore now that we talked about that. We need to break the boundaries of containers.

[00:26:34.300] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

Yes.

[00:26:34.640] - Pat Sheveland, Host

To have the space, have the energy and the will to be curious, to understand, to reframe and let's not box in beliefs so that we can really create the ability for everybody to feel loved and understood as best as possible and find that joy in life because that's what we're here for. That's what I believe we're here for is to experience joy. But for some reason, we have then learned to behavior that we're not. We're not supposed to be happy all the time. Yeah, we are. Yeah, we are. But we have to figure out how to get there. And so people like Lexie that are going to help teach us that we can continue and pay it forward and open up. I'm not going to use container anymore. I just did that.

[00:27:19.220] - Lexi Kruggel, Guest

There we go. We removed it from the dictionary.

[00:27:21.350] - Pat Sheveland, Host

We have moved from container to just an opening of space. I love it. Beautiful. Thank you. All right. So thanks for everybody and thank you, Lexie.

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