Today, we are joined by Drs. Robert and Elizabeth Bjork.
Dr. Robert A. Bjork is a Distinguished Professor of Psychology at UCLA and one of the world's foremost experts on human learning and memory. His pioneering research on concepts such as desirable difficulties, retrieval practice, and goal-directed forgetting has fundamentally reshaped how we understand what it means to learn effectively. For decades, Dr. Bjork has guided educators, leaders, and organizations in applying evidence-based strategies that enhance retention, mastery, and long-term performance. His work bridges the gap between theory and practice, helping learners update their "learning operating systems" for real-world results.
Dr. Elizabeth L. Bjork is an accomplished researcher and applied learning expert, renowned for translating cutting-edge memory science into actionable strategies for adults and organizations. Her work emphasizes metacognition, context-dependent learning, and practical approaches to improving retention and skill transfer in professional settings. Elizabeth's research and guidance empower leaders, trainers, and educators to design learning experiences that stick, fostering mastery, confidence, and measurable impact across teams and organizations.
In this fascinating conversation, we explore the counterintuitive principles that make learning stick and why making things harder on yourself in the right way actually enhances long-term retention. The Bjorks reveal why cramming feels effective but fails for lasting learning, how forgetting can actually strengthen memory, and why failure should be embraced as a learning opportunity rather than avoided.
Key topics include:
-Why "desirable difficulties" enhance learning and the illusion of mastery that comes from easy practice
-The difference between storage strength and retrieval strength in memory formation
-How spacing and interleaving create better long-term retention than massed practice
-Why cramming works for immediate tests but fails for lasting knowledge transfer
-The New Theory of Disuse and how forgetting can actually strengthen memory
-Why changing contexts and environments improves learning transfer and flexibility
-How retrieval practice and testing yourself enhances retention better than re-reading
-Applications of learning science in sports training and professional development
-The importance of embracing failure and mistakes as learning opportunities
-Why variation in practice conditions leads to more robust skill development
Whether you're a leader looking to improve team training, an educator seeking evidence-based strategies, or a professional wanting to enhance your own learning effectiveness, the Bjorks' research provides scientifically-backed insights that challenge common assumptions about how learning really works.
The Bjorks' Research: https://bjorklab.psych.ucla.edu/research/
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Website and live online programs: http://ims-online.com
Blog: https://blog.ims-online.com/
Podcast: https://ims-online.com/podcasts/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesgood/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesgood99
Chapters:
(00:00) Introduction
(02:00) Tool: Academic Journeys into Mathematical Psychology and Learning Science
(06:00) Technique: Why Making Things Hard on Yourself Enhances Learning
(09:00) Tip: The Illusion of Mastery from Cramming vs. Lasting Learning
(12:00) Tool: Storage Strength vs. Retrieval Strength in Memory Formation
(15:00) Technique: Interleaving and Variation in Sports and Skills Training
(19:00) Tip: The New Theory of Disuse and How Forgetting Strengthens Memory
(22:00) Tool: Embracing Failure and Mistakes as Learning Opportunities
(25:00) Technique: Changing Contexts and Environments for Better Transfer
(28:00) Tip: The Spacing Effect and Optimal Timing for Retrieval Practice
(31:00) Tool: Practical Applications Across Different Learning Domains
(33:00) Conclusion