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That’s Debatable!
The Free Speech Union
100 episodes
1 day ago
Welcome to ‘That’s Debatable!’, the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan Macvarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week and interview some of the main protagonists in those dramas. Edited by Jason Clift. Please like, subscribe and share. Thank you.
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All content for That’s Debatable! is the property of The Free Speech Union and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.
Welcome to ‘That’s Debatable!’, the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan Macvarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week and interview some of the main protagonists in those dramas. Edited by Jason Clift. Please like, subscribe and share. Thank you.
Show more...
Society & Culture
News,
Politics
Episodes (20/100)
That’s Debatable!
Police Scotland DROP investigation into Susan Smith
Susan Smith is one of the founders and directors of For Women Scotland, the grassroots women’s rights campaigners who took the Scottish government all the way to the Supreme Court and won, with the ruling that a woman is defined by being biologically female under the Equality Act 2010.   Susan Smith had been ordered to accept a Police Recorded Warning, or else be charged with a minor vandalism offense following a disputed incident involving alleged damage to an umbrella. The footage of the incident was captured on camera which raised significant questions about what exactly Susan had done to deserve such treatment.     Now, following media pressure, Police Scotland have dropped their investigation and Susan will not receive a warning or any charges. She can now comment on the ordeal…   Follow For Women Scotland: https://x.com/ForWomenScot   Join the Free Speech Union: freespeechunion.org/join   Follow the Free Speech Union X/Twitter: x.com/SpeechUnion Instagram: www.instagram.com/freespeechunion Facebook: www.facebook.com/SpeechUnion   Edited by Jason Clift
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4 days ago
31 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Does Free Speech Have a Place at Work?
This week’s podcast guest is CEO, journalist and author Tanya de Grunwald. Tanya has been making waves in the world of HR with her This Isn’t Working podcast. Tanya talks to FSU’s Jan Macvarish about the free speech issues arising in workplace culture and the network she is building of employees and employers who want to make things better. Subscribe here to listen and here to watch. Edited by Jason Clift
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1 week ago
41 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Julie Bindel: Non-Crime Hate Incident Investigations SCRAPPED
Julie Bindel joins Connie Shaw to discuss the Metropolitan Police’s announcement that non-crime hate incidents (NCHIs) will no longer be recorded following Graham Linehan having no further action taken against him.    Julie is a journalist, feminist and co-host of the podcast the lesbian project. She has campaigned against violence against women and girls for over 40 years. She was one of the first journalists to ever write about trans ideology with her famous article in the Guardian in 2004. From that point Julie has been a target for transactivist, being deplatformed from universities, at one point by a local council and on the receiving end of smear campaigns, including having a visit from the police in 2019.    Edited by Jason Clift   Follow Julie: x.com/bindelj   Join the Free Speech Union: freespeechunion.org/join   Freshers’ half price membership until 31st Oct 2025: freespeechunion.org/product/freshers-membership-annual-concessionary-subscription   Follow the Free Speech Union X/Twitter: x.com/SpeechUnion Instagram: www.instagram.com/freespeechunion Facebook: www.facebook.com/SpeechUnion
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2 weeks ago
24 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Battle of Ideas Festival 2025: What is the Problem with Defining Islamophobia?
This week’s episode is a bit different — a live recording of an especially timely event hosted by the FSU as part of the Battle of Ideas Festival 2025. Titled, ‘What is the Problem with Defining Islamophobia?’, this lively discussion, features fascinating comments from the audience, but first you’ll hear from a expert panel of speakers who have been at the frontline of debating the issue in parliament. Professor Khalid Mahmood Former Labour member of Parliament for Birmingham Perry Barr, visiting professor at Birmingham City University, Director of KN Strategic Solutions Ltd. Nick Timothy MP Member of parliament for West Suffolk, former special advisor to the UK Home Office, author and comment writer. Baroness Amanda Spielman Conservative peer, former chief inspector for Ofsted. Toby Young General Secretary of the Free Speech Union, associate editor of the Spectator, editor-in-chief of the Daily Sceptic. Chaired by Dr Jan Macvarish, Education and Events Director of the Free Speech Union. Edited by Jason Clift
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3 weeks ago
1 hour 30 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Claire Fox: The Battle of Ideas and the Answer to the Free Speech Crisis
FREE SPEECH UNION MEMBERS GET 20% DISCOUNT ON BATTLE OF IDEAS TICKETS! Find them here: https://freespeechunion.org/event/battle-of-ideas-festival-2025   Baroness Fox of Buckley founded the Academy of Ideas 25 years ago and it continues to put on the UK’s biggest freedom of speech festival every year. Claire explains how we must go about tackling the free speech crisis, and what better place to do that than at the Battle of Ideas.    Follow Baroness Fox on X: x.com/Fox_Claire   Follow the Academy of Ideas on X: x.com/acadofideas   Join the Free Speech Union: freespeechunion.org/join   Freshers’ half price membership until 31st Oct 2025: freespeechunion.org/product/freshers-membership-annual-concessionary-subscription   Follow the Free Speech Union X/Twitter: x.com/SpeechUnion Instagram: www.instagram.com/freespeechunion Facebook: www.facebook.com/SpeechUnion
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1 month ago
26 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Standing up to Backdoor Blasphemy Law
This week, Jan Macvarish speaks to the FSU’s Director of Projects Stephen O’Grady about the continuing case of Hamit Coskun, the asylum-seeker from Turkey who the FSU is helping appeal his conviction for a public order offence. As an act of political protest, against the Turkish government that had previously tortured and imprisoned him, Hamit burned a copy of the Quran, outside the Turkish consulate in London. He was immediately the victim of a violent attack by a man armed with a large knife, who recently received a suspended sentence, despite his declared intention to kill Hamit. Jan and Stephen delve into the case, the reason why it is a priority for the FSU and why it has resonated so much with our members and the wider public. You can donate to our fundraiser for Hamit’s case here https://freespeechunion.org/hamit/?v=7885444af42e
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1 month ago
46 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Can universities ever recover from the free speech crisis?
Connie Shaw   18:54 (11 minutes ago)       to me               In this week’s That’s Debateable!, hosts Vinay Kapoor and Connie Shaw discuss: The new academic year in a post-Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act world, and what needs to be done to restore the university experience. They relay their visit to LSE campus where they spoke to a variety of students from different causes, including both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel, and what their perspectives were on the state of freedom of speech at university  Vinay explains how his time at the University of Warwick has helped his work at the FSU, and what the FSU offers for students who wish to promote freedom of speech on their campuses. Join the Free Speech Union: freespeechunion.org/join   Freshers’ half price membership: freespeechunion.org/product/freshers-membership-annual-concessionary-subscription   Follow the Free Speech Union X/Twitter: x.com/SpeechUnion Instagram: www.instagram.com/freespeechunion Facebook: www.facebook.com/SpeechUnion
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1 month ago
17 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Transatlantic Free Speech Hypocrisy?
This week, Connie and Jan discuss the extraordinary level of interest in the case of Deborah Anderson, the Free Speech Union member and American citizen who filmed a visit from a British police officer who wished to talk to her about her ‘upsetting’ Facebook posts. The video has been viewed over 6 million times on X alone. Deborah’s indignant defence of her speech rights in the face of state overreach has clearly touched a nerve.   They then cross the pond to discuss the suspension of US talk-show host Jimmy Kimmel for his comments about the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Kimmel claimed that the shooter was part of the MAGA tribe and that the murder was being exploited for political capital by Trump and his supporters. The decision by ABC and the Nexstar Media Group to cancel Kimmel, apparently under pressure from chief of broadcast regulator the Federal Communications Commission, provoked much debate about whether those on the right who have claimed to be free speech defenders have now become justifiers of cancel culture. Connie and Jan discuss the nuances of, on the one hand holding people to account for what they say, and on the other, upholding the importance of free speech. Edited by Jason Clift
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1 month ago
37 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Can Free Speech Unite the Kingdom?
This week on That’s Debatable… Charlie Kirk, a bastion for free speech and open debate, was tragically assassinated last week. Everyone at The FSU is still holding the wife and young children of Charlie Kirk in our thoughts and prayers. Jan describes her experience witnessing The Unite the Kingdom march for free speech that took place on 13th September, where many Free Speech Union members were present.  The Leader of the Opposition has asked General Secretary of the Free Speech Union, Toby Young, to lead a review of Britain's free speech laws. The provisional recommendations are due to be issued in December 2025. Edited by Jason Clift
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2 months ago
43 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Down With This Sort of Thing!
Jan Macvarish is joined by Vinay Kapoor who runs the Free Speech Union’s funding stream for students and young people, the Ian Mactaggart Programme. They begin by responding to the outrageous arrest of comedy writer Graham Linehan by five armed police officers at Heathrow Airport. Graham has not yet been charged but police are investigating him for three tweets posted earlier this year. The FSU is providing Graham with legal support, raising funds with a crowdfunder, and has succeeded in overturning the bail conditions that forbade him from posting on X.   Vinay speaks about his time as a student at Warwick University where he launched his own society for open inquiry and debate, called Warwick Speakeasy. Now that he has graduated, he will be concentrating on expanding the FSU’s outreach to a younger audience through tailored events and by encouraging free speech initiatives by other young people. Vinay is committed to resurrecting the ‘socratic’ approach to intellectual development and public discourse where everything is open to question in the pursuit of critical thinking and deeper understanding. Finally, Jan encourages our viewers and listeners to get their tickets for The War on Science on 4th October (FSU Members can book discounted tickets) and the Battle of Ideas Festival on the 18th and 19th October (FSU Members can use the promo code in the weekly newsletter to unlock a reduced rate).Edited by Jason Clift
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2 months ago
44 minutes

That’s Debatable!
What REALLY happens at the Free Speech Union…
Celeste, an FSU Case Officer, and External Affairs Officer Connie discuss what goes on behind the scenes at the FSU, what case officers do when they receive your emails to the help@freespeechunion.org line, and what tactics they deploy against those who try to silence you.    Cases and news of note include: The Islamophobia definition delayed down to the FSU’s pressure on the government  Disabled 8 year old boy banned from summer camp due to his mother’s gender critical views Robert Moss, retired fireman, arrested for criticising his former employer Events and Offers: The War On Science panel with Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Alice Sullivan, John Armstrong and Alan Sokal, 4th October  Battle of Ideas: FSU members get 20% off tickets! New students get half price FSU memberships for £14.99 Edited By Jason Clift
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2 months ago
42 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Lucy Connolly RELEASED: Toby Young answers common questions
Lucy Connolly, the child minder who was jailed for 31 months for a single tweet, has been released from prison. The Free Speech Union funded her appeal in May 2025. In this episode, Toby Young answers some common questions surrounding Lucy Connolly’s case. Edited by Jason Clift
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2 months ago
33 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Pensioner ARRESTED for criticising former employer
This week on That’s Debatable… The Free Speech Union had a trip to Margate beach to protest Thanet District Council’s new Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO). Being so broad and over-reaching, the PSPO is likely unlawful and has the effect of banning swearing in public and taking the mickey! The FSU are threatening legal action if Thanet District Council does not alter the wording of the PSPO. Along with JD Vance’s visit to the UK came a report from the US state department which referenced a decline in human rights regarding free speech.  Labour Cllr Ricky Jones was acquitted by a jury after being charged with encouraging violent disorder which has caused considerable outcry from those who disagree with the treatment Lucy Connolly received for her tweet.   Scottish army veteran, David Toshack, was sacked from his role as a police custody officer due to his ‘strong views’ being incompatible with company policy and ‘the law’. His strong views? That sex is real, immutable and important. Support his case here: freespeechunion.org/david-toshack-l/ Edited by Jason Clift
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3 months ago
55 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Swearing and satire have been BANNED
This week Connie and Jan discuss the Public Spaces Protection Order that has been passed by Thanet District Council (TDC). In the summer of 2024, the FSU threatened legal action when TDC proposed a similar measure. This is their second attempt, and there are still serious concerns that it will infringe on speech rights and is likely to be unlawful – the swearing ban! https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/council-launches-fresh-bid-to-fine-people-for-swearing-327075/ Jon Farley was arrested under the Terrorism Act for holding a satirical image made and published by Private Eye magazine about the proscription of Palestine Action. He was held for 6 hours and was eventually told no further action would be taken. The FSU has offered to look into helping the protestor with securing an apology from Leeds police. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/23/private-eye-cartoon-arrest-ian-hislop-protest Lord Toby Young has called for Akeela Ahmed to step down from the government’s  Islamophobia Working Group due to a conflict of interest. Ms Ahmed is the incoming Chief Executive of the British Muslim Trust which aims to monitor incidents of Islamophobia and “raise awareness” of hate crime with the help of £1 million a year donation from the government, we argue that her position calls into question the ability of the working group to objectively assess the merits of an official definition of Islamophobia. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/07/21/conflict-interest-row-over-rayners-islamophobia-definition/?mc_cid=ced63ae64a&mc_eid=ad5cde99a7 Finally, some good news. Lord Chris Smith, a supporter of free speech and academic freedom, has been elected to the Chancellorship of Cambridge University! You can read his responses to a survey sent to all candidates in the election  by Alumni for Free Speech here.
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3 months ago
33 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Free speech for all or just for ‘gammon’?
This week, Connie and Jan discuss a new report released by the Government’s Commission for Countering Extremism (CCE). The CCE Freedom of Expression Survey asked 2000 people in England and Wales about their views on free speech with regard to politics, religion, race, immigration, climate change and transgender issues. It claims to reveal a ‘nuanced landscape of public opinion on free speech’ and highlight ‘the challenges of navigating free speech in a diverse society’, but Jan and Connie question whether it really provides valuable insights when it fails to explore why free speech matters to people, weights the sample to include more Muslim respondents than are present in the general population and unhelpfully pitches those who care about free speech against those who wish to protect people from ‘threats and abuse’. They go on to relate some of the findings to the FSU’s most recent intervention in debate over whether an official, non-statutory definition of Islamophobia will having a chilling effect on free speech and actually protect Muslims from prejudice—a letter from 30 members of the House of Lords to the Chairman of the working group tasked with interrogating the merits of a definition. Finally, Connie updates us on the cases of Scottish nurse Sandie Peggie, who was disciplined by NHS Fife for questioning the presence of a male nurse in the female changing room of the hospital where she works and Newcastle United fan Linzi Smith, who has succeeded in challenging Northumbria Police’s active participation in a Pride parade that declared itself hostile to gender-critical people.That's Debatable is edited by Jason Clift
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3 months ago
35 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Defining Islamophobia
In a special episode of That's Debatable, FSU founder and General Secretary Lord Young talks to Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of Tell MAMA and Faith Matters, about the government's determination to adopt an official definition of 'Islamophobia/Anti-Muslim Hatred' and the chilling effect it is likely to have on free speech. That's Debatable is edited by Jason Clift
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4 months ago
24 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Rap, Research, Banter and Bans
Connie and Jan begin by discussing the furore arising from last week’s Glastonbury Festival, when rap duo Bob Vylan led a crowd of thousands in chanting ‘Death, death to the IDF’. Some commentators have demanded that police investigate the rapper for incitement to violence while others greeted his words as a morally impassioned politically justifiable performance. Many drew parallels with Lucy Connolly, imprisoned for 31 months for a tweet, and called for consistency in the treatment of Bob Vylan. However,  the FSU issued a very clear statement making the case for consistency that leans towards rather than away from free speech – in other words, neither Lucy Connolly nor the rapper should face criminal sanction. You can read our statement here and watch an interview between Toby Young and Ash Sarkar here. Connie then introduces the second part of the Sullivan Review, a piece of research which catalogues the multifarious ways in which gender critical academics have had obstacles placed in the way of their research. One of those academics, Professor Jo Phoenix, wrote about the findings in the Critic. The latest developments in the FSU’s campaign against ‘the banter ban’, as we’re describing Clause 20 of the Employment Rights Bill are then discussed and listeners are urged to make use of our campaigning tool to write to a member of the House of Lords in support of Lord Young’s amendments, which will be proposed on 14th July. For a live discussion about workers’ rights, you can come along to our event on Monday 14th July Moving to a global perspective on free speech, Connie and Jan consider the findings of the Global Expression Report 2025, produced by  Article 19, which assesses the status of free expression and access to information across 161 countries. The report found a global decline in free expression and just as disturbingly, demoted the UK to a second-tier rank – lower than most other Western European countries. What dragged down our score was an increase in government censorship efforts (as opposed to restrictions on press freedom or on civil society organisations). 'That's Debatable' is edited by Jason Clift
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4 months ago
43 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Rainbow Refuseniks and other Religious Heretics
That’s Debatable! is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Lynsey Metcalfe and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share. Jan is joined this week by FSU Case Officer Lynsey Metcalfe. They discuss stories of more ‘rainbow refuseniks’ – in this case, two footballers who have been punished by the French footballing authorities for blacking out rainbow-related insignia on their kit – and Lynsey tells how the FSU caseload reflects similar instances of resistance to the Pride agenda, in particular amongst those of religious faith. While the football examples involve players of various faiths, there is a strong perception at present that when professed by Christians, conservative beliefs are more likely to be policed than when others of different faiths say similar things. For example, research conducted by the FSU into the policing of street preachers seems to confirm this perception, with Christians found to be only faith group subjected to arrest, despite the researchers actively searching for cases involving other religion. Finally, Lynsey and Jan consider the profoundly isolating effects of having to conceal one’s beliefs when others are invited to express theirs, in workplaces, institutions and other areas of life. That's Debatable! is edited by Jason Clift
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4 months ago
42 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Do we need an 'Islamophobia' definition?
That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Connie Shaw and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share. This week Jan and Connie discuss the robust guidance issued by the Office for Students in relation to free speech, and the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023 which comes into force on 1 August this year. The Office for Students accepted the FSU's recommendation that all legal speech should be protected at universities and that legal speech should not be regulated at all. It should change the culture at universities, with students told to be ready to be shocked and offended. Also discussed is the new working group set up by the government to establish a non-statutory definition of 'Islamophobia'. A call for evidence was issued on the same day that Baroness Casey’s National Audit on Group-based Child Exploitation was published and Yvette Cooper made a statement on the national inquiry into grooming gangs. The issue has long been suppressed as an allegedly racist or Islamophobic dog whistle, including by a 2018 All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) report which established a definition that the Labour Party adopted. The chair of the new working group, Dominic Grieve, wrote the forward and welcomed the findings of the 2018 APPG report. The Free Speech Union has not been asked to give evidence. In similar news, they discuss the amendment tabled by Nick Timothy MP to the Crime and Policing Bill 2024-25 designed to secure the freedom to criticise religion by extending the free speech protections of the Public Order Act 1986. Office for Students guidance https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/news-blog-and-events/press-and-media/ofs-publishes-free-speech-guidance-as-polling-shows-one-in-five-academics-do-not-feel-free-to-teach-controversial-views/#:~:text='This%20guidance%20emphasises%20that%20freedom,can't%20ban%20ideas.' John Jenkins’ article 'Has the Islamophobia 'Working Group' already made up its mind?’ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/has-the-islamophobia-working-group-of-mps-already-made-up-its-mind/  Politics Home reports on the questions being asked by the Islamphobia working group https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-seeks-input-including-racism-islamophobia-definition  Freddie Attenborough article ''Islamophobia' and the grooming gangs scandal' https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/islamophobia-and-the-grooming-gangs-scandal/ Freddie Attenborough article 'The grooming gangs scandal shows the importance of free speech' https://thecritic.co.uk/the-grooming-gangs-scandal-shows-the-importance-of-free-speech/?mc_cid=c6de95ce3d&mc_eid=2190e49a54 Exchange between MPs Jess Phillips, Shockat Adam and Nick Timothy https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1935738036983042508?s=46&t=YZKdwC8hdWThZq-sxVV0Fw That's Debatable is edited by Jason Clift
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4 months ago
44 minutes

That’s Debatable!
In Defence of Banter and Books
That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share. In this week’s episode, Jan Macvarish and Connie Shaw discuss the FSU’s campaign against the ‘banter ban’. Connie describes legislative reforms that are being proposed as part of the government’s Employment Rights Bill and the problems the FSU has identified with them for free speech. FSU General Secretary addressed the audience at last week’s Comedy Unleashed gig and interviewed comedians including Andrew Doyle, Josh Howie and Francis Foster, about the prospect of ‘banter bouncers’ in venues, clubs and pubs. You can find out more and watch the video here. Toby also appeared on Sunday’s Free Speech Nation (around 1 hour 35 minutes in) to discuss the bill with Andrew Doyle. Connie encourages viewers and listeners to use our special online tool to alert members of the House of Lords to the dangers of the Bill and to encourage them to support Lord Young’s amendments. It’s not just the FSU that has identified problems - the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has also warned of the ‘risk of unintended consequences’ and counselled the need to ‘balance…rights to freedom from harassment and freedom of expression’. You can read their briefing  here. Connie then introduces a news story she spotted about a US school-teacher who has been threatened with the sack for reading an unedited passage of To Kill A Mockingbird to pupils. She and Jan discuss how children need to be able to understand the context in which words gain their power and the role of teachers in guiding them through linguistic taboos that have changed over time. They then go on to talk about Ray Bradbury’s dystopian novel Fahrenheit 451, written in 1953, which imagines a future America where books are banned and destroyed by fire. The novel explores the impact on memory, imagination and the ability to think and experience emotion that this has. And finally, they return to the ‘banter’ question with an article reporting that a university researcher went undercover at his own golf club to analyse how jokes, innuendo and laddish banter forged a bonded but potentially exclusionary culture amongst golfers. The story raises questions about freedom of association, the role of humour in human relationships and research ethics. Edited by Jason Clift
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5 months ago
41 minutes

That’s Debatable!
Welcome to ‘That’s Debatable!’, the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan Macvarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week and interview some of the main protagonists in those dramas. Edited by Jason Clift. Please like, subscribe and share. Thank you.