A question is presented before a group of the sages: What is the law regarding the money from a sale of an object of idolatry in the hands of a non-Jew? Similarly, what if a Jew is a creditor for a non-Jew who then sells an object of idolatry and has the funds to pay the Jew back...? The same group receives other questions as well: What about a ger toshav - can he nullify idols? What about when two non-Jews don't share the same idolatrous worship? Would nullifying the worship of the other be effective? Plus, does the Gemara consider all non-Jews, such as a ger toshav, to be idolaters?
A beraita about a man who was with a prostitute - can the money he didn't pay her with be used for purchase for the altar? What monies can be swapped for which? Plus, sacrifices. Also, whether it was permitted to borrow produce from the poor before the shemitah year, and paid them back after the shemitah year. Plus, how a Jewish employer might gift or sponsor his employees leisure purchases.
Chapter 5! And a new mishnah: A non-Jew who hires a Jewish worker raises question as to whether that Jew can accept his wages -- depending on the terms of the entire capacity of the job. For example, when there are mitigating factors to reduce the stringencies towards the idolatry. Also, the prohibitions that are rabbinic in nature - are often reduced, or certainly debated. Also, disposing of the problematic items - in such a way that they cannot be unearthed or reused. Plus, a cemetery that was used for those killed in capital punishment -- what else that might be buried there should be burned.... Plus, the economic question of Jews dealing with non-Jews, given stringencies.
When wine is in an idolater's domain, in a home that opens to the public domain, when is that wine permitted? And if it's in a Jew's domain? But what if the city were entirely idolaters? Also, if a Jew lives in a house in a courtyard owned by a non-Jew, then is that in considered usable or not? Plus, the story of the house of the vizier, and the concerns of sharecroppers how may or may not be messing with the Jews' wine. But if they're messing with the wine, they're unlikely to have the presence of mind to offer libations in the mix of everything else.
An idolater who crushes grapes via a press, but it's still potentially libation. But that's indirect.... and indeed, the wine is prohibited, but there's more room to maneuver than initially believed... Others are more comfortable for one to sell the wine - since it's not prohibited for benefit. Plus, the case of a non-Jew standing next to a vat of wine. And what happens if he indeed falls in?
Rabbi Hiya bar Aba was in a place called Gavla - which place that is specifically is unclear, though suggestions are made - where he saw Jewish young women who were impregnated by men who were in the process of converting to Judaism. Also re their wine. Likewise, he saw Jews eating from bishul akum. He said nothing, but consulted with Rabbi Yochanan later, and he said that the babies must be proclaimed mamzerim, the wine - yein nesach, and so on. Because this population was just not that knowledgeable. Also, how does someone whose wine has become prohibited via a non-Jew's libation, how can that Jew recoup the loss? Isn't that wine prohibited from benefit? That turns out to be a matter of dispute.
An incident took place in Mehoza - a non-Jew asked a Jew if he has wine to sell. After he is told no, he shoves his hand into a barrel of wine and mixes it and asks: Isn't this wine? -- what now is the status of that wine? Note the shofar-blowing to announce the issuance of a "p'sak din" - halakhic decision. To what extent has libation been involved in this kind of case? Moreover, note the different practices and the different levels of knowledge in various places - from Mehoza and Nehardea, and more. (All the cases brought in an attempt to refute Rava) Also, some of the sages were drinking wine, and the invite someone who later was determined to be a non-Jew. Other beverages, including beer, would have a different concerns (or none, as the case may be). If one sees wine, why would they suggest it was beer (maybe it's at night?). Also, note the difference between bishul akum, for example, and the issues here, which are from the Torah, and more concerned about idolatry than fraternizing.
Several stories - indicating that the concern about libation wine was real for them. For example, a person's lulav touching his wine. Or the extreme case of an infant touching the wine (as an example of intent not being the more key element here in declaring wine for libations. Plus, conversions with circumcision and dunking in a mikveh. Plus, the impurity factor, given that status. Note the stringency here, especially given the biblical prohibition. Also, a greater concern that converts who have completed the process are still subject to their original beliefs... or a year or so. Plus, concerns about taint of partial converts with regard to the wine.
First, why "libation wine" is a topic that draws so much attention. Wine cannot become "libation" wine until it goes into the cistern - is it fully processed then? That is a matter of dispute. Also, a 6-year-old child who was an outstanding scholar of this very tractate - Avodah Zarah. He was able to field serious questions about Jews and non-Jews working together to tread on grapes to make wine. Plus, long-term deliberations over concerns about wine, without real worrying about keeping people waiting for an answer...
Agrippas, the Roman general, asked Rabban Gamliel (paraphrase): Your God is a jealous God, but people are only jealous of those who are in real competition, so how can He be jealous of idols, which are fundamentally nothing? Plus, an example of a man who takes a second wife, and when that will make the first wife feel bad (in analogy to God vs. idolatry). Also, a challenge from people who are seemingly healed by idols. Plus, the perfect timing of suffering that can then confuse bystanders. Also, a focus on wine-making and taking the juice out of the grape - when does it become wine? (for halakhic concerns). Plus, draining the grapes and the implications as compared to juice flowing easily.
R. Dimi came from the land of Israel to Babylonia and taught how the land itself isn't rendered prohibited by virtue of people bowing down, but working/digging, etc. just might. The same for other items too. What about exchanging one thing for the thing that was worshipped? Still a problem, but the exchange of an exchange is a machloket. NOTE: A switch to discussion of libations and Aggadah in the mishnah (unusual, as we know). Does God really mind idolatry? He allows it, after all.... Also, a discussion between the philosophers in Rome (literally) and the sages on how God does not interfere in the running of the world, according to its natural order. But that means people do things against God's will and thrive nonetheless! (To wit, Rome).
Several mishnayot - beginning with nullifying an idol (on the bottom of the previous daf). Note that a non-Jew nullifies the idol, not a Jew, and only a non-Jew who owns at least part of the idol. Acting in excruciatingly, disrespectful ways before the idol will not nullify it. Also, the idols that were in the land when Joshua conquered it, and the tolerance for idolatrous practice that they Jews were willing to entertain during the sin of the Golden Calf. Also, an object of idolatry that was set aside during a time when the non-Jews would have had ample time to go get the master. (as compared to a peace time, when there's no way to know why the idol was shunted aside).
A dispute on the prohibition of the idol when it's owned by a Jew vs. owned by non-Jew (Rabbi Akiva vs. Rabbi Yishmael). Also, vessels that were used in the "Temple of Onias" -- "chonyo," outside of the Temple, once it had been built. [Note: Historically, the specific temple of Onias was a center of worship for Egyptian Judaism.] Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi forgot (!) the verse from which the external worship was prohibited -- and then he was reminded of it by Rabbi Yosi bar Shaul. Also, the specifics of the Temple - as presented in the tractate Middot - were key in terms of assessing what could and could not be used in the Temple - once they were used unlawfully, even unto the Temple's altar itself (in the time of the Hasmoneans). It was a problem of the stones not being smooth, and so they were hid - but why hide? Why not repurpose them? Plus, the gold of Jerusalem and the coins that were permitted for use.
An idolatry that is served by using a stick, or breaking the stick, in front of an idol, the stick is then prohibited from use. If the stick were thrown, the (Jewish) person is still liable for idolatry, but the stick would not be prohibited for use. The issue may well be whether the practice itself were in use in the service in the Temple, and then recast for idolatry. Which raises a question about the rocks that were thrown in service of Mercury. Also, 2 mishnayot! On the worship on "bamot," altars that were outside of the Mishkan/Tabernacle, which were not always permitted in the time of the Mishkan and prohibited once the Temple was established. Plus, foodstuffs that were prohibited by virtue of idolatrous practices - even, under some circumstances, water and salt. Also, more on the specific idolatrous practices, for example, of Mercury, Pe'or, etc. Also, are there circumstances where that which was given to idolatry could be used? Plus, concerns of payment to pagan priests.
More on the Mercury idol - including stones that were removed from the idol, and were then prohibited. Plus, other idolatries -- more than one that compares the practices of idolatry with the dead, where benefit is prohibited. But stones weren't the Jewish approach in worship, so perhaps it shouldn't be a problem of benefit. Plus, a beraita that was too difficult to unpack -- with the claim that they needed a carpenter, the son of a carpenter to resolve it. Also, another beraita that needed unpacking (about removing worms from a tree, or putting manure on certain places on the given tree. Certain questions and contradictions were not addressed satisfactorily for the sages. [NOTE: Unbeknownst to us, Yardaena's sound cut out - as you may detect easily...though she sounded loud and clear during recording]
Rabbi Yosi vs. the Rabbis - on a field that was fertilized by the manure of idolatry, or the like, and how that field can be planted, and what terms are required for that to happen. Plus, the potential ramifications of their same logic on leavened dough. When the problematic item that is prohibited from benefit, can it be redeemed for money, and then destroy those coins in the Dead Sea? The rabbis say that there's no financial redemption for idolatry. Also, several new mishnayot: One who takes wood from an asherah tree cannot get benefit from that wood, so what happens if that wood were used to heat a new oven? Or an old oven? Or bread? Or a garment that was woven with idolatrous items? What about revoking the idolatrous status? As long as thee non-Jew is clear that he's not treating the tree as an object of worship, then he is not. Plus, the Roman god of Mercury and the stone-throwing idolatrous worship thereof.
A daf of 4 mishnayot! (1) 3 different kinds of trees and how they might have been used for idolatrous purposes, and whether they are permitted afterwards. (2) What is an "asherah"? Different views. (3) On using the shade from the idolatrous tree. (4) Planting vegetables under the asherah tree - in the winter or summer, when is it permitted or prohibited?
Resh Lakish poses a question: What happens to a lulav - a palm branch - from a tree that has been worshipped? That is, in the event that it was planted to begin with in the name of idolatry. Does the use for a mitzvah make it more likely to be permitted? More likely to be forbidden? What about for regular use? Rav Dimi has a different understanding by which to answer Resh Lakish -- consider a tree that was planted for idolatry, and then that status was revoked. Now what, when it comes to mitzvot? Rav Pappa says there's no revocation (in other examples) when it comes to mitzvot. Also, new mishnayot! If one's home abuts the home of an idolater - divide the wall according to thickness. Note - the privacy of the bathroom. Plus, stones that were used to support idols vs. stones that had a covering that was connected to idolatry, and you removed any connection to idolatry....
More on the hills and mountains and rocks - where they are being worshipped by a non-Jew, that is, the boulders that separate from a rocky mountain. Is that boulder like the mountain which isn't prohibited from benefit, or is it like the object of idolatrous worship? Usually, human engagement is necessary to make the object of idolatry prohibited. With a comparison to an animal -- including one that is blemished, as a parallel to the boulder. Also, the factor of being attached the ground - to what extent does that establish the worshipped object as something problematic or not?
A new mishnah! Things in the natural world that were worshipped - and whether that worship made them prohibited for benefit. For the most part, the hills and so on are permitted - the worship doesn't change them, but the obligation to destroy the idolatry itself kicks in. Adornment in the name of idolatry would be different - and prohibited. Also, a redundancy in the Torah: a prohibition against trees that are forbidden because they have been worshipped - and then another verse prohibited "each leafy tree," which appears to be redundant. So Rabbi Akiva provides an explanation that presents a need for both verses. Plus, the question of intent - is the tree planted in the name of idolatry, in which case, it needs to be destroyed, or, alternatively, is the tree already there and then someone decides to worship it?
