An interview with my dad Gaz Kishere, a former minister who was involved in the church for 15 years and has since undergone a journey of deconstruction. Today he works professionally as a counsellor, helping others find continued journey and spiritual relationship beyond church. He’s worked for the last 8 years supporting counter-trafficking and refugee projects in Athens Greece, as well as counselling burnt-out humanitarian workers. We explore church’s relationship to rescuer culture and outreach. The 1990’s Toronto awakening. The relationship of the church to disruption and dynamic change. Church leadership as ‘always having an answer’. Church as creating a ‘safe space’ of arrival, rather than journey into unknowing. The unknown as the place where faith lives. Church as self-relating and concerned with perpetuating itself. Contact for Coaching and enquiries at gazkishere(at)gmail.com