From balance sheets to ballads, the 2025 budget doubles down on soft power and spectacle, but keeps Canada’s national security stuck in the same old song.
In this episode of Secure Line, hosts Stephanie Carvin and Jessica Davis dive into the 2025 Canadian federal budget — a self-proclaimed “transformative” plan that, on closer inspection, mostly reinforces the national security status quo. From record defense spending to long-delayed reform, Steph and Jess unpack what the budget really means for Canada’s intelligence, enforcement, and foreign policy landscape.
They debate whether the long-promised National Security Strategy will finally materialize and take a close look at the newly resurrected Canadian Financial Crimes Agency — a long-talked-about but still-undefined enforcement body meant to fix Canada’s chronic money-laundering and financial crime failures. The hosts also explore what cuts to Global Affairs Canada and the Privy Council Office mean for diplomacy, development, and intelligence coordination, and they catch a surprising “Easter egg” about foreign bank investment reviews that could reshape national security screening in the financial sector.
Between witty asides about “making it rain” for the Canadian Armed Forces and an unexpected detour into Eurovision diplomacy, the episode captures the blend of sharp analysis and humour that Secure Line is known for.
In this episode, former Canadian environment and infrastructure minister Catherine McKenna joins Secure Line to discuss her memoir Run Like a Girl and the escalating threats faced by public officials—especially women—working on contentious files like climate policy. McKenna recounts how online harassment (“Climate Barbie”) evolved into offline intimidation during and after her time in office, and reflects on the Ottawa convoy as a failure to protect vulnerable communities and Canada’s international reputation. She describes inconsistent security support, jurisdictional buck-passing, and slow recognition of gendered extremism, bot-driven rage farming, and foreign interference. The conversation shifts from personal experience to systemic fixes: serious threat briefings and protection for candidates, properly scoped online harms legislation, accountability for social platforms, and higher standards for political discourse. McKenna urges more women to enter politics, argues climate is a national security issue, and insists most Canadians are still reasonable—if leaders act with focus and courage. The hosts close by tying these lessons to Canada’s broader democratic resilience.
In this episode of Secure Line, Stephanie Carvin, Leah West, and Jessica Davis speak with returning guest Thomas Juneau to unpack a turbulent year in the Middle East and what it means for Canada. Juneau argues that U.S. policy under President Trump lacks a consistent doctrine and is driven largely by personal involvement that helped force a fragile Gaza ceasefire through pressure on Israel and coordination with key regional actors. He adds that Canada’s recognition of Palestinian statehood is not a historic shift but a calibrated diplomatic signal aligned with Europe and meant to strengthen the Palestinian Authority while maintaining Canada’s long-standing proximity to Israel.
The discussion surveys a shifting balance of power. Juneau says Iran has endured its hardest stretch in decades: Assad is gone, Hezbollah and Hamas are weakened, and direct clashes with Israel exposed Iran’s conventional military limits. Syria’s new leadership under Ahmed al-Sharaa is fragile and pragmatic, with Turkey emerging as a relative winner. Qatar’s mediator role is reaffirmed—despite the shock of an Israeli strike in Doha and ensuing U.S. damage control that highlighted Qatar’s importance and accelerated ties amid a luxury-plane controversy. In Yemen, the Houthis have effectively won the civil war; U.S. strikes without a political strategy are counterproductive, and threats to Red Sea shipping are likely to resume.
For Canada, Juneau is blunt about limits. Ottawa will not lead peace talks, but it can matter by acting with allies through humanitarian and development assistance, security-sector training for Palestinian forces, and modest re-engagement with Gulf partners as part of broader trade and security diversification. He also notes China’s growing commercial footprint alongside a deliberately constrained security role, and he questions how long that gap can persist without deeper political or military commitments.
In this episode of Secure Line, hosts Stephanie Carvin and Jessica Davis unpack the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency’s (NSIRA) October 2 report on the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA). The review examined the CRA’s handling of audits on charities for potential terrorist financing, following long-standing allegations of bias against Muslim-led organizations. Davis explains how NSIRA — created in 2019 to review Canada’s expanding national security powers — found not evidence of bias, but rather an alarming lack of internal governance, documentation, and methodology that made determining bias impossible. This “vibes-based” decision-making, as Davis calls it, reveals deep flaws in how Canada’s counter-terrorism powers are exercised and reviewed. The discussion expands to the broader implications for rule of law, transparency, and the politicization of Canada’s terrorism listings process, with both hosts urging stronger oversight and governance to prevent bias, ensure accountability, and rebuild trust. The episode closes with a call for NSIRA to review Canada’s terrorism listings next — before “vibes creep” takes over more elements of national security policy.
This episode asks the deceptively simple question: is espionage legal? Host Leah West sets the stakes for Canadian operators—CSIS and the CAF must comply with international law unless clearly authorized otherwise—before welcoming scholars Asaf Lubin and Russell Buchan to square off on how international law actually treats spying. Using the African Union–Huawei affair as a provocation, Lubin argues we’re moving toward (and should embrace) a bespoke international law of intelligence that recognizes pervasive state practice and constrains it with principles like necessity, proportionality, and efficacy—even when activities pierce sovereignty. Buchan agrees international law applies, but says we’re not there yet: current rules (sovereignty, diplomatic inviolability, human rights, IHL) already regulate espionage, and declaring a new custom risks handing blank checks to powerful states. The trio parse peace-time vs wartime rules, Canada’s evolving positions (including the “de minimis” cyberspace view), and the Federal Court’s inconsistent jurisprudence, highlighting how secrecy, strategic ambiguity, and politics complicate “opinio juris.” The upshot: states spy constantly; the legal question is whether to formalize tailored guardrails now—or keep operating in the grey.
In this episode of Secure Line, hosts Stephanie Carvin and Jessica Davis unpack the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency’s (NSIRA) October 2 report on the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA). The review examined the CRA’s handling of audits on charities for potential terrorist financing, following long-standing allegations of bias against Muslim-led organizations. Davis explains how NSIRA — created in 2019 to review Canada’s expanding national security powers — found not evidence of bias, but rather an alarming lack of internal governance, documentation, and methodology that made determining bias impossible. This “vibes-based” decision-making, as Davis calls it, reveals deep flaws in how Canada’s counter-terrorism powers are exercised and reviewed. The discussion expands to the broader implications for rule of law, transparency, and the politicization of Canada’s terrorism listings process, with both hosts urging stronger oversight and governance to prevent bias, ensure accountability, and rebuild trust. The episode closes with a call for NSIRA to review Canada’s terrorism listings next — before “vibes creep” takes over more elements of national security policy.
In this episode of Secure Line, Leah West, Jessica Davis, and Stephanie Carvin unpack one of the most contentious parts of the Carney government’s Strong Borders Act—the sweeping amendments to Canada’s Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA). Joined by immigration lawyer Jackie Bonisteel, they explore how sections 6 through 9 of the omnibus bill grant the government broad powers to suspend or terminate immigration applications “in the public interest.” The hosts probe whether these provisions are about genuine border security—or an attempt to quietly rewrite Canada’s immigration policy under the guise of national security.
As Bonisteel explains, the legislation’s implications reach far beyond border management. The proposed one-year limit on filing refugee claims could bar legitimate claimants—from long-term residents to LGBTQ+ individuals discovering their identities in Canada—from ever seeking protection. The episode highlights how the new pre-removal risk assessment process offers a paper-based substitute for Canada’s robust refugee system, stripping claimants of hearings, appeals, and due-process safeguards. Bonisteel warns that these measures will deepen backlogs, create legal limbo for thousands, and erode Canada’s obligations under the principle of non-refoulement.
The conversation broadens into a critique of omnibus lawmaking, where unrelated reforms—from immigration to privacy—are bundled together and rushed through Parliament. The hosts and Bonisteel question whether the government’s “Strong Borders” rhetoric masks a deliberate tightening of humanitarian pathways and a retreat from Canada’s long-standing refugee commitments. With the bill now facing mounting opposition from lawyers, privacy advocates, and civil-society groups alike, Secure Line asks: is this about strengthening Canada’s borders—or weakening its values?
Jess, Leah, and guest Michael (Mike) Nesbitt unpack Canada’s proposed Combating Hate Act: what it actually does, why it’s being introduced, and where it may overreach. They break down the bill’s key moves—creating a stand-alone hate-motivated offense, criminalizing intimidation or obstruction outside religious, cultural, educational and similar spaces, banning public display of certain terrorist/hate symbols, and codifying a definition of “hatred”—and test each against Charter limits, policing capacity, and real-world edge cases. The conversation probes whether gaps in law truly exist or if the problem is resourcing and trust, the risks of politicized terrorist listings spilling into speech offenses, and how ambiguous symbols/memes complicate enforcement. They also flag constitutional soft spots (e.g., obstruction without intent to cause fear), tensions between denunciation and Canada’s anti-carceral rhetoric, and the need for equitable application across communities most targeted by hate. It’s a clear-eyed guide to where protest becomes crime—and how Parliament should sharpen the bill before it passes.
In this episode of Secure Line, Jess, Steph, and Leah dive into the Strong Borders Act—Bill C-2—an omnibus bill that stretches far beyond its title. While marketed as a measure to curb fentanyl and strengthen Canada’s borders, the legislation also proposes sweeping changes to immigration, refugee processes, anti–money laundering powers, and surveillance authorities. Leah takes the lead by unpacking Parts 14 and 15 of the bill, which expand lawful access, information sharing, and production orders.
The conversation explores Canada’s fraught history with lawful access reforms, the ongoing clash between government security goals and civil liberties advocates, and the potential consequences for privacy, oversight, and professional-client relationships. From IP addresses as “breadcrumbs” in investigations to backdoor legislation and the risks of placing too much responsibility on service providers, the hosts break down what’s at stake. They also connect the debate to international agreements like the U.S. CLOUD Act and the Budapest Convention.
With oversight gaps, broad applicability, and the potential to affect everyone from telcos to small service providers, the episode asks whether Bill C-2 gets the balance between liberty and security right—or if Canada is once again repeating old mistakes under a new name.
In the season two opener of Secure Line, Steph, Leah, and Jess unpack the national security and intelligence stories that unfolded over the summer. They kick off by discussing the Carney government’s priorities, the RCMP reform white paper, and highlight ongoing frustrations with Canada’s outdated policing model.
The hosts also spotlight the upcoming CASIS Symposium on November 7, featuring Michael Kovrig as keynote speaker, the organization’s 40th anniversary celebration, and student essay contest winners.
From there, the conversation broadens to international concerns:
U.S. chaos and politicized intelligence – The Trump administration’s purges, loyalty tests, and weaponization of intelligence are raising alarms about Canada’s heavy reliance on U.S. partners. Jess introduces her “Trump tracker,” charting how U.S. financial dominance is being undermined through sanctions abuse and the rise of an “axis of illicit finance” (Iran, Russia, North Korea).
Canadian Armed Forces controversies – From hateful conduct in Facebook groups to Nazi salutes and the arrest of four soldiers on terrorism-related charges, the CAF faces persistent extremism challenges. The hosts analyze ideology, legal thresholds for terrorism charges, and Canada’s tendency toward mischief charges over terrorism prosecutions.
RCMP statistics spin – A reported 488% increase in terrorism-related charges is deconstructed, showing that the figure stems from charge counts, not individuals, leading to misleading public messaging.
China-related developments – Canada’s move against Hikvision under the Investment Canada Act and the case of TikTok’s offices are discussed as examples of economic security tools being applied, with Steph praising the ICA as one of Canada’s most effective national security instruments.
Looking ahead, the hosts preview fall content:
Leah will lead a multipart walkthrough of Bill C-2 (Strong Borders Act).
Jess will dive into her work on espionage financing and illicit finance.
Steph and Leah will share findings from their gender and online extremism project.
Guest academics Russell Buchan and Asaf Lubin will join for a deep-dive on intelligence law in international law.
Thanks for tuning in for season 2 of Secure Line! Like, share and subscribe!
In the final episode of Season 1, Jessica Davis and Stephanie Carvin dive into what Canada’s new government should prioritize when it comes to national security and intelligence. From long-overdue RCMP reform to the growing threat of extremist violence, they lay out a transition binder’s worth of ideas—some controversial, all necessary.
They debate whether violent extremism deserves top billing, why RCMP structure still fails national security needs, and how Canada’s intelligence collection and sharing strategies need to evolve—especially as U.S. cooperation becomes less certain. They make the case for a separate Canadian foreign intelligence service, stronger sanctions regimes (especially against cybercriminals), and enhanced economic intelligence capabilities.
The episode also touches on Canada’s patchy record on prosecutions, the politics of listings, and why Canada’s "loud noises and sanctions button" approach isn’t enough. Expect some disagreement, a few laughs, and a lot of serious policy ideas. Plus: both Jess and Steph have Substacks now. Subscribe, rate, and tell us what to cover in Season 2—coming this fall (unless something catastrophic happens first).
📩 Get in touch, share your thoughts, and let us know what you want to hear next
Stephanie's Substack: https://stephaniecarvin.substack.com
Jessica's Substack: https://newsletter.insightthreatintel.com
This week on Secure Line, Jess and Steph tackle the election head-on — with a deep dive into how national security is (and isn’t) showing up in the party platforms. From defense to disinformation, foreign interference to financial crime, and economic resilience to hate-motivated violence, we sift through what the political parties are promising Canadians on the security front. Spoiler: the consensus across platforms might just be “do the job better.”
We break it all down in four key areas: extremism and domestic threats, espionage and economic security, disinformation and online harms, and national security capacity. And while there’s surprising overlap across party lines, there are also major omissions — like the almost complete silence on cyber threats, or the vanishing act of the once-promised Canadian Financial Crimes Agency.
Stephanie also shares insights from her latest Substack, where she’s been summarizing the national security content in each platform (link below). Whether you’re heading to the polls or just trying to make sense of what national security means in this election, this episode has you covered.
So grab your ballot — and your headphones — and tune in to the election episode of Secure Line. Because national security might not win votes, but it sure shapes the world we live in.
Stephanie's substack: https://stephaniecarvin.substack.com
Canada’s national security landscape is shifting—fast. In this whirlwind episode, the Secure Line trio reunites to break down the cacophony of news, rumors, and real threats shaping the political and intelligence environment. From foreign interference in Canada’s early election days to China’s digital whispers on WeChat, from annexation talk on X to a government that still hasn't figured out how to talk to diaspora communities—there’s signal, and then there’s a lot of noise.
We dive into SignalGate, the explosive leak from a U.S. government group chat that compromised Israeli HUMINT and rattled Five Eyes trust, and what it means for Canada’s intelligence relationships. Then, we confront a decades-old debate with new urgency: is it finally time for Canada to launch its own foreign intelligence service?
Along the way, we tackle Trudeau’s surprise RCMP white paper, how national security got sidelined in the election, and why the Mounties might be winning a bureaucratic battle they shouldn’t even be fighting.
It’s a jam-packed episode on interference, intelligence, institutional inertia—and the future of Canada’s security in a very noisy world.
In this urgent and wide-ranging episode of Secure Line, Stephanie Carvin and Leah West tackle the growing uncertainty in Canada’s defense posture amid escalating rhetoric from U.S. President Donald Trump. With Jessica Davis away this week, they’re joined by defense and security expert Philippe Lagassé to unpack what it all means for Canadian sovereignty, NORAD, and our military's future.From Justin Trudeau’s stark warning about Trump’s threat to Canadian sovereignty to the challenges facing the Canadian Armed Forces—aging equipment, recruitment struggles, and a reliance on U.S. systems—this episode dives deep. Lagassé explains how Canada’s “plug and play” model of defense has left us vulnerable and what a real path to military independence might look like (spoiler: it’s generational).They also discuss the 2024 defense policy update, the Arctic, NATO, the F-35, and whether the political class is ready to meet this historic moment. As Canadian defense policy gets dragged from the margins to the headlines, this episode is a must-listen for anyone trying to understand what’s next.What happens when the U.S. treats Canada like the Global South? What should the Canadian Armed Forces actually be for? And are we ready for the hard choices ahead? This is one of the most important episodes of the season.
In this special on-the-ground episode, host Stephanie Carvin takes listeners to Taipei, where she attended a series of academic and security-focused conferences, including the first-ever Canada-Taiwan academic conference on Indo-Pacific Security and the Halifax Forum's inaugural overseas event. Amidst rising global tensions and growing concerns about authoritarianism, Steph sits down with three guests offering unique perspectives on Taiwan’s geopolitical situation and its implications for democracies around the world.
Mariam Makarova, head of the East Asia Office of the Liberal Democratic League of Ukraine, draws compelling parallels between Ukraine and Taiwan, emphasizing the need for democratic resilience and mutual learning. She highlights Ukraine’s civil defense experience as a valuable lesson for Taiwan and stresses the importance of grassroots collaboration between democracies.
Steven Chase, reporter for The Globe and Mail, breaks down Taiwan’s internal political turmoil, marked by a legislative standoff between the ruling DPP and opposition parties. He discusses how this “constitutional crisis” is affecting Taiwan’s ability to fund defense and foreign affairs—at a critical moment when Taiwan must brace for a potentially less supportive U.S. foreign policy under Donald Trump’s return to power.
Fan Yun, a DPP legislator, offers a passionate defense of democracy and Taiwan’s need for civil defense, democratic unity, and greater international cooperation. She calls for Canada to deepen ties with Taiwan, not just in defense, but across political, cultural, and civic sectors.
Steph closes with her reflections from Taipei, noting the vibrancy of its civil society and the urgency facing Taiwan’s democracy in the face of rising disinformation and dwindling foreign funding. She emphasizes that Canada, while not in the same situation as Taiwan or Ukraine, has much to learn from these frontline democracies as we all navigate an increasingly unstable global order.
In this episode of Secure Line, hosts Leah West and Jessica Davis are joined by Dr. Colin P. Clarke, a senior research fellow at the Soufan Center and director of research at the Soufan Group, to discuss the evolving global terrorism landscape. Building on the previous episode's focus on Canada, this conversation broadens the scope to examine the most pressing terrorism threats worldwide.Dr. Clarke delves into his recent analysis, Trends in Terrorism: What’s on the Horizon in 2025?, and reflects on how rapidly the threat landscape has shifted even since its publication in January. He discusses key developments, including the potential implications of the U.S. military restructuring AFRICOM, the growing influence of terrorist groups in Africa, and the concerning shifts in U.S. policy toward counterterrorism operations. The discussion highlights the resurgence of Al-Shabaab and Islamic State-affiliated groups, particularly in Somalia, where financial networks are sustaining jihadist operations across multiple regions.The conversation also examines the significant challenges posed by Hezbollah and Hamas following a year of heavy losses, Israel’s counterinsurgency campaign in Gaza, and how Hamas’ financial networks—largely beyond Israel’s reach—remain intact in countries like Turkey and Sudan. Colin and Jessica emphasize that while kinetic strikes have weakened Hamas militarily, financial counterterrorism efforts have not kept pace, allowing the group to sustain itself. They discuss how missteps by Israel and Western governments have, paradoxically, reinforced support for groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, both in the Middle East and in Western nations.Shifting focus to Syria, the discussion explores the collapse of the Assad regime and the emerging leadership of Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS). Dr. Clarke provides insight into the risks associated with this transition, the strategic withdrawal of U.S. forces, and the ongoing threat posed by Islamic State fighters held in prison camps. The conversation underscores the persistent danger of these camps becoming a breeding ground for future jihadist movements if left unchecked.The episode then turns to the controversial issue of designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations, particularly in Canada and the United States. Dr. Clarke critiques this approach, arguing that it blurs the distinction between terrorism and organized crime, potentially diluting counterterrorism efforts and introducing unintended consequences, such as expanding CSIS’s mandate into organized crime. Jessica Davis underscores the legal and practical limitations of these designations, cautioning against their long-term implications for law enforcement and intelligence agencies.The discussion closes with an assessment of the growing threats from right-wing extremism, the resurgence of neo-Nazi and militia movements, and the potential for left-wing extremist violence in response to political developments. Dr. Clarke warns of the dangers posed by an increasingly fragmented and unpredictable extremism landscape, including groups that blend ideologies in unpredictable ways. Looking ahead, he identifies a weakened Iran as a particularly volatile factor, raising concerns about potential Iranian-backed terrorist attacks in response to its diminishing regional influence.As always, the episode concludes on a sobering note, emphasizing the complexity of modern terrorism threats and the importance of vigilance, intelligence cooperation, and effective counterterrorism strategies. Clarke, West, and Davis leave listeners with much to consider as they navigate an increasingly uncertain security environment.
In this episode of Secure Line, Leah, Jess, and Steph sit down with Ari Redbord, Head of Global Policy at TRM Labs, to explore how illicit actors are exploiting cryptocurrency to evade sanctions, launder illicit funds, and finance destabilizing activities. While North Korea’s cyber operations and crypto heists have been widely documented, a surprising revelation from TRM Labs’ latest report places Canada among the top 10 countries with the highest exposure to sanctioned entities. This unexpected ranking raises critical questions about Canada’s role in global illicit finance and the vulnerabilities in its regulatory and enforcement frameworks.We explore the world of blockchain intelligence and discuss how financial crime networks—from North Korean cybercriminals to Russian money launderers—are leveraging cryptocurrency to bypass international restrictions. Ari provides firsthand insights into how blockchain analytics tools like TRM Labs work, allowing investigators to track illicit funds across multiple chains and ultimately disrupt criminal enterprises. We also examine the broader landscape of crypto-enabled crime, including ransomware, fraud schemes, and the increasing use of AI in financial deception.As the conversation unfolds, we confront the challenges of enforcement, the gaps in Canada’s response to financial crime, and the urgent need for more resources and regulatory clarity. With cryptocurrency continuing to evolve, the battle between law enforcement and illicit actors is intensifying. What can governments do to stem the tide of crypto crime? How do investigators leverage blockchain data to uncover hidden networks? And what steps must Canada take to address its unexpected prominence in the world of illicit finance?Join us for a fascinating and eye-opening discussion on the world of crypto crime, its implications for national security, and why Canada might be playing a bigger role in this landscape than many realize. If you enjoy this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite podcast platform.
In this episode of Secure Line, hosts Stephanie Carvin, Jessica Davis, and Leah West dive into the evolving landscape of state threats. They explore how modern covert operations—from cyberattacks and disinformation campaigns to acts of sabotage—are reshaping national security, highlighting a significant shift from traditional espionage to more technologically driven, transnational activities.
The episode features guest Matthew Redhead, a seasoned researcher on financial crime and national security. Drawing on insights from his report, “Old Wine, New Bottles, The Challenge of State Threats,” Redhead delves into the blurred lines between espionage, sabotage, and foreign interference. He explains how state threats now encompass a broader spectrum of covert operations, including the outsourcing of targeted assassinations to criminal networks—a trend driven by factors such as (im)plausible deniability, cost efficiency, and the exploitation of technology to access denied areas and engage in transnational repression. The discussion further contrasts the legal frameworks and defensive measures employed by Western governments with the often reckless tactics of adversarial states.
In this episode of Secure Line, hosts Leah West and Jessica Davis examine the evolving terrorism landscape in Canada. The discussion is driven by recent terrorist attacks in the United States at the start of 2025, which reignited concerns about domestic threats. While some have suggested that ISIS is “back,” others argue it never really disappeared. At the same time, ideologically motivated violent extremism—ranging from ultraright nationalists to accelerationists—continues to expand its influence.
Award-winning investigative journalist Stewart Bell joins the conversation to analyze the findings of a new Insight Threat Intelligence report that tracks terrorism charges, incidents, and financing in Canada. The data shows a significant increase in terrorist attacks and arrests over the last decade, raising critical questions about whether Canada’s counterterrorism efforts are keeping pace with the threat. Despite these trends, the country’s official terrorism threat level has remained unchanged for over 15 years.
The episode explores several key issues, including the cost of terrorist attacks in Canada, the difficulties in prosecuting terrorism cases, and the continued influence of ISIS in recruiting young people. The discussion also looks at Canada’s reliance on intelligence sharing with the United States, particularly as the FBI undergoes major internal changes that could impact future counterterrorism cooperation.
The broader implications of economic instability and shifting U.S. foreign policy are also considered. Reductions in international aid, trade restrictions, and diplomatic shifts could create conditions that extremist groups exploit for recruitment and influence. The conversation highlights the risks of underestimating these factors and the challenges of countering extremist financing networks that remain largely intact.
The episode closes with a look ahead at future discussions on the global terrorism threat. In the next installment, Colin Clarke will join to provide insight into how these issues fit into the broader international security landscape.
This episode offers a data-driven perspective on Canada’s terrorism threat, revealing gaps in official assessments and raising important questions about the country’s counterterrorism approach.
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Is Canada finally taking foreign interference seriously? In this episode of Secure Line, we sit down with Michelle Tessier, the former Deputy Director of Operations at CSIS, for an in-depth discussion on intelligence, transparency, and the increasing threat of foreign interference in Canada. Having spent decades at the highest levels of Canada’s intelligence service, Michelle brings a unique perspective on how the country has historically handled this growing national security challenge.
Our conversation explores the impact of the Hogue inquiry, which raised critical questions about intelligence transparency. Michelle shares her views on how CSIS has evolved in its approach to public engagement and whether Canada is ready to take meaningful action against foreign interference. She also discusses the delicate balance intelligence agencies must strike between protecting operational confidentiality and ensuring Canadians understand the threats facing their democracy.
We also examine why foreign interference remained largely overlooked for decades, despite being enshrined in the CSIS Act since the agency’s creation. Michelle reflects on the political sensitivities that kept it in the shadows and how recent revelations, particularly those involving leaked intelligence and media reports, have forced the issue into public debate. She provides insight into the long-standing intelligence-to-evidence problem, which continues to hinder Canada’s ability to prosecute national security offenses, and explains why even with new legislation, enforcement remains a challenge.
With Canada heading into a federal election and provincial elections in 2025, the conversation turns to what needs to be done to safeguard democratic institutions from foreign interference. Michelle discusses how political parties, intelligence agencies, and policymakers should be preparing, and whether the recent legal reforms granting CSIS greater ability to share intelligence with provincial leaders and other stakeholders will make a real difference.
In addition to foreign interference, we also talk about Michelle’s career at CSIS, where she was the first woman to serve in multiple senior executive roles, including Deputy Director of Operations. She shares her experiences as a leader in a traditionally male-dominated intelligence field, how the service has evolved in terms of diversity and workplace culture, and the work that still needs to be done to make Canada’s intelligence leadership more representative.
Finally, we touch on the global intelligence landscape and what a second Trump presidency could mean for Canada’s national security and its relationships with Five Eyes partners. Michelle offers her thoughts on whether intelligence cooperation can remain stable in an era of political volatility, and what lessons Canada should be learning from its allies on countering foreign influence.