In college, John was fascinated by the fringes of human experience.

It was at the fringes where he learned about psychedelic therapy. It was also there, during his first MDMA experience, where he fell in love with Emily. 

But that love didn’t last. And in the wake of disappointment, John couldn’t help but wonder: 

Was the love real… or only a high?

(00:00) Intro clip

(03:12) When did you start using psychedelics therapeutically?

(08:38) How did learning about schizophrenia play a role in your belief in empathy as the key to ending human suffering?

(13:28) Were you drawn to psychedelic therapy because you are drawn to extremes?

(18:12) What was the exact focus of your research?

(20:40) Were you worried your first psychedelic experience could cause you to develop schizophrenia?

(23:29) Can you describe your first psychedelic experience in detail?

(31:51) Emily and John begin their relationship.

(33:11) Did Emily have experiences with psychedelics?

(34:44) What was your relationship experience before Emily?

(37:37) Could you separate your relationship with Emily from your first psychedelic experience?

(38:32) What was specifically unhealthy about your relationship with Emily?

(40:23) What ways were you powerless in the relationship?

(46:15) Why did Emily ask you to redo the proposal? Did you do psychedelics after MDMA at this point?

(49:52) When the relationship fell apart, did it make you question the reality of the MDMA experience where you fell in love with Emily? What do you believe now?