Are sharks really the monsters we’ve been taught to fear — or the ocean’s misunderstood guardians?
In this episode, Mark Lynas sits down with Arzucan “Zuzu” Askin, National Geographic Explorer, conservation scientist, and co-founder of Miyaru NGO, to take on Bad Idea #28: “Jaws - aka sharks are scary”
From diving daily with tiger sharks in the Maldives to pioneering the world’s first free-swimming shark ultrasounds, Zuzu shares what it’s really like to live and work among these ancient predators — and why our fear of them is one of conservation’s biggest barriers.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
● 🦈 The myth of the “man-eater”: why sharks aren’t scary, they’re essential
● 🎬 Jaws and how a single movie reshaped global shark perceptions
●🏝️ How the Maldives became the “Galápagos of the Indian Ocean” for sharks
● 🌊 The 2010 Maldives shark sanctuary — and how it saved populations
● 🤰 “Mama Shark”: the world’s first free-swimming ultrasound scans of tiger sharks
● 👩🔬 Shark pregnancies and live births — motherhood in the deep
● ⚖️ The fight to stop the return of shark fishing in the Maldives
● 🧴 Hidden sharks: in cosmetics, pet food, and even vaccines
● 🧠 How sharks inspire biomedical and design innovation
● 🐋 Collaborating with Dr. Sylvia Earle and Tongan scientists on whale research
● 🧩 What individuals can do to protect sharks — from banning fins to consumer choices
👩🏫 Guest Bio:
Arzucan “Zuzu” Askin is a conservation scientist, diver, and National Geographic Explorer based in the Maldives. She co-founded Miyaru NGO, the country’s first national-level shark conservation organisation, dedicated to protecting predatory shark species through research, education, and community engagement. Zuzu led the groundbreaking “Mama Shark” project, conducting the world’s first free-swimming ultrasounds on tiger sharks to study reproduction. She has worked with National Geographic, the Maldives Ocean Alliance, and partnered with researchers like Dr. Sylvia Earle to advance ocean science and storytelling.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
● 🌐 Miyaru NGO – https://miyaru.org/
● 📄 Ultrasound Scanning of Free-Swimming Tiger Sharks – Frontiers in Marine Science (2023) – https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles/10.3389/fmars.2024.1500176/full
● 🐋 Mission Blue – https://missionblue.org/
● 🧬 Blue Marine Foundation – https://www.bluemarinefoundation.com/
● 🌊 Maldives Resilient Reefs – https://maldivesresilientreefs.com/
● ✍️ Petition to Save the Maldives Shark Sanctuary – https://only.one/act/maldives-sharks
● 🎥 Jaws (1975) – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaws_(film)
● 🧴 Hidden Shark Ingredients – https://sharkallies.com/blogs/shark-allies-news/squalene
● 🧠 Sylvia Earle – https://missionblue.org/team/dr-sylvia-earle/
● 🐳 Humpback Whale Research Project (Tonga) – https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237530779_Humpback_Whales_in_Tonga_An_Economic_Resource_for_Tourism
💬 Quote Highlights:
“A lion would never let you do what a tiger shark lets you do underwater.” — Arzucan “Zuzu” Askin
“When you show a shark as a mother, not a monster, people see them differently.”
“Sharks are older than trees — and we’ve managed to wipe out most of them in a century.”
“Europe is still one of the biggest exporters of shark fins and meat. That has to stop.”
“If you’ve used sunscreen, cosmetics, or pet food today, you might have already used shark.” “An ultrasound image of a pregnant tiger shark — that’s conservation storytelling at its best.”
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org
📥 Join the Conversation:
💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org
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Can thinking about the end of the world make us better people? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with philosopher and existential risk researcher Dr SJ Beard to unpack Bad Idea #27: “There’s no hope for humanity’”
Drawing on their new book Existential Hope (Polity), SJ argues that we need to look beyond fear and fatalism to build a future worth surviving for. They explore how the same forces driving environmental destruction, inequality, and technological danger also threaten humanity’s long-term survival — and how rediscovering our shared humanity could be the key to building resilience and hope in an age of crisis.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
● 🌍 Why the same systems that harm people and planet now endanger our collective future
● 🧠 What “existential risk” really means — and why it’s about justice as much as survival
● 🏭 How extractive capitalism links everyday harm to global catastrophe
● 🤖 AI, technology, and the ethics of progress
● 💣 The limits of doom thinking and why apocalypse narratives can paralyse us
● 💡 The concept of existential hope — a practical philosophy for long-term survival
● ✊ Building solidarity, moral courage, and collective action as the real foundations of safety
● 🌱 Why saving humanity starts with saving our humanity
👨🏫 Guest Bio:
Dr SJ Beard is a philosopher and senior research associate at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) at the University of Cambridge. Their research explores the ethics of global catastrophic and existential risks — from AI and climate change to inequality and social justice. SJ’s new book, Existential Hope (Polity, 2024), argues that the same human capacities that create danger also give us the tools to survive and flourish. They are known for bringing humanity, empathy, and philosophical depth to one of the most urgent topics of our time.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
● Existential Hope – https://www.sjbeard.com/existential-hope.html
● Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER), University of Cambridge – https://www.cser.ac.uk/
● CSER Podcast: Existential Hope and Risk – https://www.cser.ac.uk/work/24-october-2025-conversations-on-existential-hope/
● The Precipice by Toby Ord – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Precipice:_Existential_Risk_and_the_Future_of_Humanity
● Our Final Hour by Martin Rees – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Final_Hour ● Climate Endgame (PNAS, 2022) – https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2108146119
● Effective Altruism Forum: Existential Hope and Moral Progress – https://forum.effectivealtruism.org
💬 Quote Highlights:
“If we want to save humanity, we need to start by saving our humanity.” — SJ Beard
“The same extractive systems that harm people and planet now are the ones that endanger our future as a species.”
“Existential hope isn’t utopian — it’s pragmatic. It’s about building the moral and collective capacity to survive.”
“Thinking about extinction isn’t just about avoiding the end; it’s about imagining a future worth existing in.”
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org
📥 Join the Conversation
💬 Feedback or questions?
Email: podcast@weplanet.org
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Can we inoculate society against misinformation?
In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Professor Sander Vanderlinden — social psychologist at the University of Cambridge and author of Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity — to take on Bad Idea #20: “Misinformation is just people being wrong on the internet.”
They explore how false and misleading information spreads, why even credible institutions sometimes get things wrong, and what we can do to build mental immunity.
From fake news to populism, pandemics to AI, this conversation dives deep into the psychology, politics, and future of truth itself.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
● 🧩 What counts as “misinformation” — and why intent matters
● 🧠 How our brains are wired to believe and share bad information
● 🧾 The difference between misinformation and disinformation
● 🌡️ COVID-19, lab leaks, and how science self-corrects
● 📺 The weaponization of “fake news” and authoritarian censorship
● 🧍♀️ Why polarization and inequality make us more vulnerable to lies
● 📱 How social media algorithms reward outrage and extremism
● 🤖 AI, deepfakes, and the next frontier of disinformation
● 💡 Prebunking and “psychological inoculation” — how to fight back
● 🧘 The power of intellectual humility and open-minded thinking
👨🏫 Guest Bio:
Professor Sander Vanderlinden is Professor of Social Psychology in Society at the University of Cambridge and Director of the Cambridge Social Decision-Making Lab. His research explores the psychology of misinformation, polarization, and belief formation. He authored the bestselling book Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity (2023) and co-authored The Psychology of Misinformation (2024). His work has been featured by the WHO, the UN, and major media worldwide.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
● Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity – https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/708295/foolproof-by-sander-van-der-linden/
● The Psychology of Misinformation – https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/psychology-of-misinformation/2FF48C2E201E138959A7CF0D01F22D84
● Cambridge Social Decision-Making Lab – https://www.sdmlab.psychol.cam.ac.uk/
● Inoculation Science Project – https://inoculation.science
● Bad News Game –https://www.sdmlab.psychol.cam.ac.uk/research/bad-news-game
● Go Viral! Game (WHO x Cambridge) – https://www.who.int/news/item/23-09-2021-what-is-go-viral ● Cranky Uncle Game (by John Cook) – https://crankyuncle.com/game/
● “Climate Endgame” (PNAS, 2022) – https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2108146119
● European Digital Services Act – https://prighter.com/digital-governance/eu-dsa/
● UK Online Safety Act – https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-safety-act-explainer/online-safety-act-explainer
💬 Quote Highlights:
“Misinformation isn’t just about being wrong — it’s about being misled.” — Sander Vanderlinden
“Science can make mistakes, but it self-corrects. Disinformation never does.”
“Populism feeds off distrust. Once institutions lose credibility, facts don’t matter anymore.”
“We’ve known for thousands of years what misleading rhetoric looks like — Aristotle warned us about it.”
“You can’t fact-check your way out of this crisis. We need to inoculate minds, not just correct them.”
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org
📥 Join the Conversation:
Feedback or questions?
Email: podcast@weplanet.org
Subscribe to new episodes:https://weplanet.org/podcast
Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary:
Is “climate catastrophism” itself a bad idea?
In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by longtime collaborator and eco-modernist thinker Ted Nordhaus, Executive Director of the Breakthrough Institute. Together they take on Bad Idea #21: “We must be climate catastrophists to motivate action.”
Nordhaus — co-author of An Ecomodernist Manifesto — argues that apocalyptic climate narratives have backfired, fuelling political backlash and distracting from the real work of pragmatic, technology-driven decarbonisation. The pair explore what the science actually says about climate risk, why catastrophe is not inevitable, and how prosperity and resilience can coexist with climate action.
It’s a provocative conversation about fear, facts, and the future — one that challenges both denialism and doomerism.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
● 🌡️ What “climate catastrophism” means — and why Ted rejects it
● 📉 Why global emissions are likely to peak soon, and warming is unlikely to exceed 3°C
● 👥 How adaptation, technology, and prosperity have reduced climate vulnerability
● 🌪️ Why deaths from natural disasters are at record lows despite global warming
● 🧭 The limits of single-event attribution studies and the “50x more likely” fallacy
● 🌍 Collapse myths: why population, growth, and decarbonisation trends matter
● 🌳 The Amazon, coral reefs, and what biodiversity loss really means for humans
● 💣 Nuclear war, not climate change, as the real existential threat
● ⚙️ Why geoengineering could cause catastrophe if misused or terminated suddenly
● 🗳️ How climate catastrophism alienated working-class voters and fed political backlash
● ⚛️ Why nuclear and geothermal may be the unsung heroes of decarbonisation
👨🏫 Guest Bio:
Ted Nordhaus is the founder and Executive Director of the Breakthrough Institute, a California-based eco-modernist think tank pioneering pragmatic approaches to climate and energy. He co-authored An Ecomodernist Manifesto (2015) and The Death of Environmentalism (2004), which helped reshape modern environmental thinking. His work focuses on technological innovation, energy systems, and the political economy of decarbonisation.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
● Why I’m No Longer a Climate Catastrophist – Ted Nordhaus (2024)
● An Ecomodernist Manifesto – Ted Nordhaus, Mark Lynas et al.
● The Death of Environmentalism – Ted Nordhaus & Michael Shellenberger
● Climate Endgame – Kemp et al. (PNAS, 2022)
● The Fate of Rome – Kyle Harper
● The Precipice – Toby Ord
● Breakthrough Institute – Official Website
● Mark Lynas & Ted Nordhaus in The Wall Street Journal – “Climate Change Isn’t the End of the World”
● The Cleaning Up Podcast – hosted by Michael Liebreich (related episode)
💬 Quote Highlights
“We don’t need to believe it’s the end of the world to act on climate — we just need to be pragmatic.” — Ted Nordhaus
“The world is getting richer, safer, and more resilient — not more fragile.”
“If you care about climate risk, don’t bet on apocalypse. Bet on human ingenuity.”
“Geoengineering could turn climate change into a real catastrophe — if we start and then stop.”
“The clean energy transition won’t be won by fear. It’ll be won by technology, prosperity, and persistence.”
🌐 About WePlanet
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org
📥 Join the Conversation
💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org
📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast
👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary:
Is green hydrogen the silver bullet for decarbonisation — or a trillion-dollar distraction?
In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by energy analyst, investor, and podcaster Michael Liebreich to unpack Bad Idea #24: “We’ll just use Hydrogen!”
Liebreich, founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance and co-host of the Cleaning Up podcast, makes the provocative case that green hydrogen is over-hyped, fundamentally flawed as a fuel, and destined to remain a niche solution rather than the backbone of a “hydrogen economy.”
Together they explore the physics, economics, and politics of hydrogen — why hype keeps returning in 20-year cycles, what role hydrogen can play in industry and fertilisers, and why pragmatism, not techno-fantasy, must drive climate strategy.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
● 💧 Why hydrogen is a “really crappy fuel” — and the laws of thermodynamics make it costly
● 📉 The difference between green, blue, grey, turquoise, and pink hydrogen
● 🏭 Current global hydrogen use: 100m tonnes/year, and why 0.1% is green ● 🚢 Why shipping liquid hydrogen is nearly impossible (density, leakage, energy loss)
● 💸 Hydrogen’s “missing trillions”: the cost gap with grey hydrogen
● 🛩️ Europe’s RED III mandate and the looming cost inflation in aviation fuels
● 🚛 Why trucks, steel, and shipping are unlikely to go hydrogen
● 🔋 The rise of electric trucks, batteries, and the hydrogen ladder framework
● ⚖️ Pragmatism vs. hype: why chasing bad ideas risks a climate backlash
● 🐢 The “Pragmatic Climate Reset”: think like a tortoise, not a hare
👨🏫 Guest Bio:
Michael Liebreich is founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, managing partner of EcoPragma Capital, and CEO of Liebreich Associates. A former Olympic skier, he is now one of the world’s leading clean-energy analysts. He is also co-host of the podcast Cleaning Up. His influential “Hydrogen Ladder” has shaped debate about where hydrogen makes sense — and where it doesn’t. Michael also writes extensively at Liebreich Associates Essays.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
● Michael Liebreich – The Hydrogen Ladder
● Michael Liebreich – The Missing Trillions of Hydrogen
● Michael Liebreich – The Pragmatic Climate Reset (Part I & II)
● Hydrogen Economy – Jeremy Rifkin (2002)
● The Future of Hydrogen – IEA report (2019)
● TNO study on hydrogen costs – https://www.tno.nl/en/newsroom/2022/03/green-hydrogen-production-costs/
● European RED III Directive – https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/renewable-energy/renewable-energy-directive-targets-and-rules_en
● Porsche synthetic fuels project, Chile – https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2022/company/porsche-chile-haru-oni-efuels-pilot-plant-26823.html
💬 Quote Highlights:
“Hydrogen is the Swiss Army knife of energy — there’s almost always something cheaper, safer, and more convenient.” — Michael Liebreich
“If you care about the climate, the cleanest kilo of hydrogen is the one you never make.” — Michael Liebreich
“For every $1/kg cost gap, hydrogen needs $100 billion per year in subsidies. That’s the missing trillions.” — Michael Liebreich
“Politicians love hydrogen because it’s a get-out-of-jail-free card. But hype doesn’t change physics.” — Michael Liebreich
“Think like a tortoise, not like a hare: go steady, pragmatic, and win the race.” — Michael Liebreich
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org
📥 Join the Conversation
💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org
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🔍 Episode Summary Is civilisation inherently self-destructive? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by political scientist and existential risk researcher Dr Luke Kemp to tackle Bad Idea #23 "These are the best of times"
Luke unpacks what history really tells us about the fate of past societies — and how those lessons do (and don’t) apply to today’s global risks like climate change, nuclear war, and AI. They explore the role of complexity, fragility, and inequality in collapse, and why we need to reject fatalism to build resilience and renewal instead.
From ancient Rome to modern techno-capitalism, this episode explores whether doom is destiny — or a bad idea we need to outgrow.
🧠 Topics Discussed
● 📜 What “collapse” actually means, and why it’s more often transformation
● 🏛️ Why Rome never really “fell” — and neither did most civilisations
● 🌍 Global risks vs. local collapses: what makes our world different
● 🔁 The role of feedback loops, fragility, and complexity
● 🌡️ Why climate change is a multiplier of collapse, not the root cause
● 💣 Nuclear war, AI, and engineered pathogens as existential risks
● 🤖 Why AI doom scenarios may be overhyped (and misdirected)
● 🧠 “Collapsology,” survivalism, and the new secular eschatologies
● 🌱 What real resilience looks like: democracy, equity, adaptability
● 🧘♀️ Why pessimism is lazy — and optimism is an active choice
👨🏫 Guest Bio
Dr Luke Kemp is a political scientist and risk researcher at the University of Adelaide and the University of Cambridge's Centre for the Study of Existential Risk. He co-led the influential 2022 paper Climate Endgame and has written widely on societal collapse, risk cascades, and global futures.
A former adviser to the Australian government, Luke specialises in the intersection of history, complexity science, and future risk. His current work focuses on resilience and renewal in the face of polycrisis.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources
● 📝 Climate Endgame (2022 paper) – https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2204269119
● 🌐 Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) – https://www.cser.ac.uk
● 🧠 Luke Kemp research profile – https://researcher.sydney.edu.au/researcher/51183
● 📖 Jared Diamond – Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed
● 📖 Joseph Tainter – The Collapse of Complex Societies – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_Complex_Societies
● 📖 Kyle Harper – The Fate of Rome – https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691192062/the-fate-of-rome
● 📘 Our Final Hour – Martin Rees – https://www.basicbooks.com/titles/martin-rees/our-final-hour/9780465068630/
● 📗 The Precipice – Toby Ord – https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/toby-ord/the-precipice/9780316484911/
● 🎧 Collapse: The End of Everything (podcast series) – https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001qbpr
💬 Quote Highlights
“Collapse is rarely the end — it’s usually the start of something new.” — Luke Kemp
“Rome didn’t fall — it transformed over centuries. That’s not a Hollywood ending, but it’s a real one.”
“Climate change is a risk multiplier, not the root cause of collapse. The real danger is fragility and inequality.”
“We need to stop treating resilience like a buzzword. It’s a system of systems — democratic, equitable, adaptive.”
“The biggest myth is that doom is destiny. It’s not. We have choices.”
🌐 About WePlanet
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org
📥 Join the Conversation
💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://www.weplanet.org/podcast
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🔍 Episode Summary
Can the sun save civilization? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with legendary climate author and activist Bill McKibben to take on Bad Idea #22: "Solar can’t power the world."
McKibben, co-founder of 350.org and Third Act, makes a powerful case for solar as our best hope to avert climate catastrophe — and explains why a rapid, global energy transformation is not only possible, but already underway. They dive into the economics of solar, the moral urgency of ditching fossil fuels, the false promise of geoengineering, and why the shift to sun and wind can unlock a fairer, more democratic world. Bill’s new book Here Comes the Sun offers both realism and hope — and in this episode, he brings that rare combination to life.
🧠 Topics Discussed
👨🏫 Guest Bio
Bill McKibben is an author, environmentalist, and founder of 350.org and Third Act. He wrote the first popular book on climate change (The End of Nature, 1989) and has spent decades on the front lines of climate activism. His newest book, Here Comes the Sun: The Last Chance for the Climate and a Fresh Chance for Civilization, blends urgent science with hope — and charts a path toward a solar-powered future. Bill teaches at Middlebury College and has been described as “America’s leading environmentalist.”
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources
💬 Quote Highlights
“We live on a planet where the cheapest way to make energy is to point a sheet of glass at the sun.”
“Every wild natural place will be transformed by climate. The only way to save them is to power our world differently.”
“Fossil fuels are expensive — in dollars, in lives, in politics. Solar is beautiful, cheap, and fair.”
“You don’t have to be a sophisticated theologian to know: love your neighbour, and don’t drown them with emissions.”
“Activism must now focus on speed — how fast can we make this transformation happen?”
🌐 About WePlanet
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation
💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast
👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary
Is it too late to stop climate change — or do we still have reasons for hope? In this episode, Mark Lynas talks with data scientist and author Hannah Ritchie, Deputy Editor of Our World in Data and author of Clearing the Air: The hopeful guide to solving climate change in 50 questions.
Hannah tackles some of the biggest climate myths head-on: that we’re doomed to runaway warming, that renewables can never power the world, and that going plant-based won’t make a difference. With data-driven clarity, she explains why the transition to clean energy is moving faster than people think, how “ultra-processed” doesn’t always mean unhealthy, and why there are no deal-breakers in the fight against climate change.
This conversation is both realistic and optimistic — a must-listen for anyone looking for evidence that solutions are within reach.
🧠 Topics Discussed
👩🏫 Guest Bio
Hannah Ritchie is Deputy Editor at Our World in Data and author of the Substack Sustainability by Numbers. Her new book Clearing the Air tackles 50 of the most common myths and half-truths about climate change with a data-driven approach. Hannah is known for making complex climate data accessible and empowering.
📚 Recommended Reading & Referenced resources
💬 Quote Highlights
🌐 About WePlanet
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation
💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📬 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast
🐦 Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
We’re back. Season 2 of Saving the World from Bad Ideas is coming — and it’s bigger, bolder, and maybe even more controversial. This time once more , we’re joined by some of the sharpest minds on the planet.
🌍 Bill McKibben on activism, power, and what we’ve learned from 30 years of climate campaigning. 🧠 Hannah Ritchie returns to dismantle more doomer myths with data. 🔥 Luke Kemp on civilisational risk and collapse. ⚡ Michael Liebreich on energy transitions without fantasy thinking. 💥 Ted Nordhaus on why he's no longer a 'climate catastrophist', degrowth, and the real way forward.
If you're tired of bad ideas blocking good solutions — this season is for you. Subscribe now and be ready.
In this special season finale of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, host Mark Lynas flips the script by inviting producer Rob on mic for the first time. Together, they look back on an exhilarating first season — what worked, what surprised them, what they learned, and where the podcast might go next.
From nuclear debates and rewilding wolves to Just Stop Cooking and geoengineering taboos, Mark and Rob unpack the biggest ideas (and the most controversial guests). They also explore a meta bad idea: the notion that “bad ideas = bad people”, and why it’s crucial to challenge ideas without descending into tribalism or cancel culture.
Expect behind-the-scenes stories, reflections on feedback, philosophical rabbit holes, and a few laugh-out-loud moments. Plus: what’s coming in Season Two — AI, decarbonising flying, oceans, and existential risks.
🧠 Topics Discussed
● 🤝 Meta Bad Idea: Why “bad ideas ≠ bad people” (or not!)
● 🎙️ Favourite guests & episodes: George Monbiot, Hannah Ritchie,, Luigi Boitani, and more
● ⚛️ Nuclear myths, green tribalism & the rise of a global pro-nuclear movement
● 🌍 Climate justice & cooking with charcoal — insights from Uganda
● 🐺 Wolves, rewilding, and de-romanticising nature
● 💥 Nuclear winter, biofuels, and the politics of bad ideas
● 🌡️ Planetary boundaries vs. ecomodernist optimism
● ✈️ Future topics: AI, sustainable aviation, oceans & rethinking activism
● 🧪 Why progress means embracing technology and complexity
● 📚 Blurbs, books, and podcast crossovers: Pinker, Grunwald, Richie, Robock & more
👩🏫 Featured Guests (Season Highlights)
Hannah Ritchie – urgent optimism
George Monbiot – rewilding, food justice, and political power
Steven Pinker – enlightenment, science, and progress
Luigi Boitani – wolves, coexistence, and ecological realism
Rebecca Wrigley – wildness without nostalgia
Patricia Nanteza – cooking fuel justice in Africa
Alan Robock – nuclear winter is real (and terrifying)
Rebecca Tuhus-Dubrow & Tea Törmänen – the global pro nuclear movement and how Finnish Greens embraced nuclear
📚 Recommended Listening & Reading
● The God Species – Mark Lynas
● The Good Fight – podcast by Yascha Mounk
● The Decouple Podcast – deep dives on nuclear and energy
● Cleaning Up – with Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington
● Clearing the air– upcoming book by Hannah Ritchie
💬 Quote Highlights
“Bad ideas don’t make bad people. We have to debate the idea, play around with thel as our toys instead of cancelling people. ” — Rob
“There’s no simple slogan that can replace complexity. But there is humour.” — Rob
“If you want to kill billions of people, you need a nuclear winter, not global warming.” — Mark
“As an ecomodernist I would say, AI is a tool, and it can be used in good ways and bad ways...” — Rob
🌐 About WePlanet
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation
💬 Feedback or guest suggestions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org
📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast
👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
🎧 Binge Season One wherever you get your podcasts. Season Two launches September 2025.
🔍 Episode Summary
Can Greens support nuclear power? Finnish environmentalist and WePlaneteer Tea Törmänen joins Mark Lynas to dismantle Bad Idea #19: “greens are anti-science.” With clarity, courage, and a wealth of lived experience, Tea shares her journey from feeling like an outcast in the environmental movement to helping make the Finnish Green Party officially pro-nuclear.
Drawing from decades of activism, Tea explains how anti-nuclear sentiment became part of the environmentalist identity — and how that is now changing. She unpacks the myths around waste, safety, cost, and tribal loyalties, and shows how climate goals demand pragmatic, science-based solutions — including nuclear energy.
From wolves to fast reactors, American football to European energy policy, this episode explores what it takes to change minds and movements — and why it’s time for Greens everywhere to evolve.
🧠 Topics Discussed
● 🌱 How anti-nuclear views became “baked into” green identity
● 🧠 Tribalism, virtue, and the psychology behind environmental dogmas
● 🚧 Why Greens often oppose solutions more than problems
● 🗳️ How the Finnish Green Party became officially pro-nuclear
● ⚛️ Myths about nuclear waste and how Finland solved it
● ☢️ Radiation vs risk: what safety really looks like
● 🔁 Nuclear fuel recycling and “the waste of waste”
● 🧊 Why SMRs could decarbonize district heating
● 🌍 Building a global pro-nuclear environmental movement
● 🧬 From gene tech to clean heat — embracing science in climate action
● 💚 Finding your tribe when you don’t fit into one box
👩🏫 Guest Bio Tea Törmänen is a Finnish environmentalist, science advocate, and movement builder. She’s a former chair of WePlanet Finland and played a key role in shifting the Finnish Green Party toward a pro-nuclear and pro-GMO stance. With a background in animal cognition research and a fierce commitment to evidence-based activism, Tea combines a passion for nature with a pragmatic embrace of clean technologies. She’s also a former a Finnish national team American football player and a wolf behaviour researcher.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources
● Prescription for the Planet – Tom Blees
● Not Beyond Redemption – Tea’s upcoming work (TBD)
● Apocalypse Never – Michael Shellenberger
● The God Species – Mark Lynas
● Finnish Green Party platform (updated pro-nuclear position)
● POSIVA – Finnish nuclear waste repository project
● Barakah Nuclear Power Plant (UAE case study)
💬 Quote Highlights
“Being an environmentalist doesn't mean rejecting technology — it means embracing what works.”
“Too much clean energy? That’s not a problem. That’s the solution.”
“We solved nuclear waste in Finland. It was never a technical issue. It was political.”
“You don't stop climate change by limiting options. You stop it by using all the best ones.”
“I never fit in one tribe. Now I’ve found mine in WePlanet.”
🌐 About WePlanet WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary
Are we addicted to fossil fuels and can we just go cold turkey? Philosopher of science Maarten Boudry joins Mark Lynas to tackle Bad Idea #18:: “we’re addicted to fossil fuels”.
Drawing from his new book The Betrayal of the Enlightenment, Boudry offers a bold and clear-eyed critique of the dominant climate narrative. He argues that moralising fossil fuels as an "addiction" obscures both the complexity of the climate challenge and the role fossil fuels played in liberating billions from poverty, hunger, and hard labour.
Fossil fuels have undeniably caused environmental harm. But they also powered modern hospitals, clean water systems, food security, and global development. Denying this legacy may feel righteous, but it risks sabotaging both climate progress and justice for the Global South.
This episode explores the psychology of pessimism, the limits of degrowth, the ways today's climate discourse often betrays Enlightenment values like reason, science, and human flourishing, and whether we need a new progressive movement
Whether you're a climate activist, a policy wonk, or simply curious about how to save the world without losing our minds, this episode is for you.
🧠 Topics Discussed
● 🛢️ Why calling fossil fuels “evil” is historically ignorant and morally lazy
● 🔥 Fossil fuels as a moral tragedy: the engine of progress and the cause of warming
● 💡 Climate change is a technical challenge, not a cosmic punishment
● 🌍 Green colonialism: how Western elites block energy access in the Global South
● ☢️ Why serious climate policy must include nuclear energy ● 🧠 The evolutionary roots of pessimism — and why alarmism sells
● 🚫 The flaws of degrowth and “planetary boundaries” fundamentalism
● 📚 Enlightenment values and how the modern Left betrayed them
● 🐾 Why real environmentalism means innovation
● 🧪 Why romanticising nature leads us away from real solutions
👩🏫 Guest Bio Maarten Boudry is a philosopher of science at Ghent University and author of several books and essays challenging irrational beliefs — from religion to climate catastrophism. His latest work, The Betrayal of the Enlightenment (currently available in Dutch), critiques how the modern Left has abandoned Enlightenment ideals of reason, science, and human progress, often replacing them with pessimism, guilt, and technophobia.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources
● De Verraad van de Verlichting (Maarten Boudry)
● Enlightenment Now – Steven Pinker
● More from Less – Andrew McAfee
● The God Species – Mark Lynas
● Apocalypse Never – Michael Shellenberger
● We Are the Weather – Jonathan Safran Foer (for a contrasting perspective)
● Why We Disagree About Climate Change – Mike Hulme
● WePlanet’s “Just Stop Cooking” campaign
💬 Quote Highlights
“Fossil fuels aren’t evil. They’re the reason we have modern hospitals, schools, and food security.” — Maarten Boudry
“You don’t solve climate change by going backwards. You solve it by going forward, with better tech.”
“Calling something evil ends the conversation. It doesn’t start a solution.”
“If nuclear isn’t part of your climate plan, then your climate plan isn’t serious.”
“We romanticise nature as if it were kind — but nature gave us famine, disease, and child mortality.”
🌐 About WePlanet WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary
Is rewilding just about wolves and wilderness, headset against farmers and rural communities, or something much more hopeful and human? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by Rebecca Wrigley, Chief Executive of Rewilding Britain, to unpack Bad Idea #17: “Rewilding VS the people.”
Together, they challenge some of the biggest myths surrounding rewilding. From fears of people being kicked off land to the notion that it’s anti-farmer. They reveal what rewilding actually means: restoring natural processes at scale, with people and communities at the heart. They discuss how rewilding is about practical solutions and land management to meet the challenges of the 21st century — from marine zones to city parks, from beavers to glow worms.
Whether you’re a farmer, policymaker, activist, or someone with a window box, this episode shows that rewilding isn’t about returning to the past — it’s about releasing the future.
🧠 Topics Discussed
● 🐺 The myth that rewilding is only about bringing back predators, and removing humans
● 🌱 What rewilding actually means — and why it’s for people too
● 🧑🌾 Rewilding and farming: from conflict to cooperation
● 💡 Why rewilding should be part of our national infrastructure strategy
● 🌊 The ecological and economic case for marine rewilding
● 🐻 Keystone species: beavers, lynx, deer, and the “beaver deceiver”
● 🌍 Rewilding Britain’s goal: 30% of land and sea for rewilding
● 🧭 How local rewilding networks are revitalising communities
● 🧬 Why rewilding is about future adaptation, not past restoration
● 🏡 How you can rewild your garden, park — or even your street
👩🏫 Guest Bio
Rebecca Wrigley is Chief Executive and co-founder of Rewilding Britain, an NGO driving systems change for the large-scale restoration of ecosystems on land and sea. With a background in conservation and community development in Uganda, Mexico, and the Pacific, she’s helped pioneer rewilding in the UK for the last decade. Under her leadership, Rewilding Britain now supporters rewilding across about 180,000 hectares and campaigns for policies that normalise rewilding as a productive, people-powered approach to land and marine use.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources
● Rewilding Britain ● Feral – George Monbiot
● “Wilding” (book & documentary) – Isabella Tree
● Ocean – BBC documentary on marine rewilding
● National Food Strategy (UK)
● Global Rewilding Alliance – globalrewilding.org
● Rewilding Europe – rewildingeurope.com
● Why Valley Wilding & Wild Ken Hill – community-based rewilding models
● Public Goods Subsidies in UK Agriculture Policy
💬 Quote Highlights
“Rewilding is not about going back to the past — it's about releasing the future.” — Rebecca Wrigley
“Every ecosystem needs balance. In the absence of wolves, sometimes that means human stalkers managing deer.”
“We subsidise sheep farming in the uplands — but ask nothing of that land in return. Rewilding can do so much more.”
“You can rewild your garden, your local park, your street verge. It’s not just for landowners — it’s for everyone.”
“Natural process-led management should be a discipline in every agricultural college.”
🌐 About WePlanetWePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary:
Is industrial agriculture the villain it's made out to be? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with award-winning journalist and author Michael Grunwald to explore Bad Idea #16: "We need to ditch intensive agriculture."
Grunwald, whose latest book We Are Eating the Earth dives deep into the global land crisis, makes the provocative case that abandoning intensive agriculture in favour of romanticised low-yield farming could be catastrophic for both climate and biodiversity. They unpack the real trade-offs behind organic and regenerative farming, expose the hidden environmental costs of biofuels and biomass, and explain why yield and land-use efficiency must be at the heart of any serious green food policy.
If you're passionate about climate, nature, or what ends up on your plate, this conversation will challenge your assumptions — and give you new tools for thinking about agriculture, food systems, and the future of the planet.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
● 🗺️ Why land, not just carbon, is the key environmental constraint of our time
● 🌽 Corn ethanol, biomass power and the case against biofuels
●🕵️How global institutions like the IPCC got food and land use wrong
● 🤔 The myth of regenerative agriculture as a climate solution
●🥩 Beef, land use and the real environmental cost of meat
● 🌾 Why high-yield agriculture is essential to save nature
● 🧬 Cultivated meat, GMOs and other high-tech food fixes
● 🤯 Sri Lanka's organic farming disaster: a cautionary tale
● 🌍 The moral case for better — not just different — agriculture
👨🏫 Guest Bio:
Michael Grunwald is a long-time investigative journalist and bestselling author of The Swamp and The New New Deal. His new book, We Are Eating the Earth, tackles the global agricultural land crunch and the myths we tell ourselves about food, farming, and the environment. A former senior writer for Politico, Time, and The Washington Post, Grunwald lives in Miami and has received numerous awards for his reporting.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
💬 Quote Highlights:
"Every farm, even the most romantic organic one, is a kind of environmental crime scene." — Michael Grunwald
"The idea that regenerative ag can reverse climate change is a nice story — but it's not backed by science or math." — Michael Grunwald
"The goal isn't to make farming pretty. The goal is to make food with less land, so we can spare nature." — Michael Grunwald
"If we don’t double yields again, we’re going to need a second planet." — Michael Grunwald
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation:
💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org
📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast
👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
SPECIAL: This episode dives into our new campaign, JUST STOP COOKING with WePlanet Africa lead, Patricia Nanteza.
🔍 Episode Summary:
What happens when climate policies from the Global North collide with the lived reality of energy poverty in Africa?
Mark Lynas is joined by Patricia Nanteza, WePlanet’s Africa Lead, to expose one of the most dangerous and overlooked injustices in climate policy today: the effective ban on clean cooking solutions in sub-Saharan Africa. The message being sent to millions of Africans is clear — just stop cooking.
Together they unpack the story behind WePlanet’s new campaign and report, Just Stop Cooking, which reveals how blanket bans on fossil fuel finance, pushed by Global North governments and institutions like the World Bank, are blocking support for LPG. This fuel is one of the only practical clean cooking options available to millions of people right now.
The consequences are devastating. Forests are being destroyed, indoor air pollution is killing women and children, and communities are being left with no safe alternatives. All of this is enforced through a climate double standard, backed by Western green NGOs that claim to speak for Africa without ever listening to it.
If you believe climate justice means justice for everyone, this episode will challenge what you think you know — and show you why real solutions must come from the ground up.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
🔥 Why 80% of Africans still rely on wood and charcoal to cook
🌲 The link between deforestation and cooking fuels
🫁 Indoor air pollution: the silent killer of 700,000 africans each year
💀 Carbon monoxide tragedies caused by indoor cooking
🔒 How World Bank fossil fuel bans block LPG rollout
🌍 Western NGOs pushing unrealistic energy leapfrogging narratives
🚫 The hypocrisy of Europe expanding LNG while blocking LPG for Africa
📊 The economics of charcoal: an illegal, lucrative, and deforestation-fueled market
🧪 Why LPG is the only scalable transitional fuel today
👩🏫 Guest Bio:
Patricia Nanteza is the Africa Lead for WePlanet, based in Uganda. A passionate science communicator, she has spent years advocating for pragmatic, locally appropriate energy and technology policies that serve Africa’s people — not foreign ideology. She previously led biotechnology campaigns across the continent and continues to champion pro-science voices in Africa’s development debates.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
💬 Quote Highlights:
“You tell us: don’t use charcoal, don’t use LPG, and electricity isn’t available. So you’re basically telling Africans: just stop cooking.” — Patricia Nanteza
“If you want to help us protect our forests, give us viable alternatives. Right now, that alternative is LPG.” — Patricia Nanteza
“Western NGOs campaign for zero fossil fuel investment in Africa — while their own countries build new LNG terminals.” — Mark Lynas
“We didn’t cause climate change. But now we’re told to sacrifice our basic right to cook, in the name of solving it.” — Patricia Nanteza
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement championing evidence-based solutions for climate, development, and prosperity. We fight bad ideas with better ones. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation:💬 Feedback or questions?
Email: podcast@weplanet.org
📬 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast
🐦 Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary:
Hurricanes. Floods. Fires. Tornadoes. Are extreme weather disasters getting worse because of climate change — or is that just the story we tell?
In this provocative episode, Mark Lynas sits down with climate scientist and policy scholar Roger Pielke Jr., one of the most polarising voices in climate debates over the last 30 years. Roger explains why the costs of disasters are rising — but not primarily because extreme weather is increasing. Instead, it's us — where we build, how we build, and what we place in harm’s way.
Together, they unpack why pointing this out has gotten Roger attacked, investigated, and effectively blacklisted in parts of the climate community. They discuss hurricanes, attribution studies, politicisation of science, the breakdown of trust in expertise, and why nuance is often unwelcome in highly charged public debates.
This is a must-listen for anyone who cares about evidence-based climate science — and why getting the science right matters, even when it’s inconvenient.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
🌪️ Why rising disaster costs are mostly driven by exposure, not more extreme weather
☣️ The politicisation of hurricanes as climate symbols
📉 Why the IPCC still sees no detectable global trend in tropical cyclones
🌡️ What extreme weather is linked to climate change (hint: heatwaves & rainfall)
🧪 The shaky science behind attribution studies
🔥 Why being “accurate but inconvenient” can get you cancelled
💰 Roger’s congressional investigation over alleged fossil fuel funding
🎯 How the academy became ideologically uniform — and why that’s dangerous
🇺🇸 The crisis of public trust in science amid US culture wars
🏳️🌈 The transgender athlete controversy as another case study in politicised science
🧭 How to rebuild trust in expertise after the populist backlash
👨🏫 Guest Bio:
Roger Pielke Jr. is a political scientist, climate policy expert, and Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. For three decades, he has published widely on science, risk, and policy, often challenging simplistic narratives on extreme weather and climate change. He is the author of The Honest Broker and writes extensively on his Substack, also titled The Honest Broker.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
💬 Quote Highlights:
“If you want to see the signal of climate change, don’t look at extreme events — look at temperature and precipitation. That’s where the evidence is.” — Roger Pielke Jr.
“We’ve built more hotels on the beach. Of course the costs go up when storms hit. That’s exposure, not stronger hurricanes.” — Roger Pielke Jr.
“When science becomes partisan, we put a target on our backs. The expert community needs support from everyone — right, left, and centre.” — Roger Pielke Jr.
“Evidence-based fairness — not identity politics — is the only way to regulate transgender athletes in sport.” — Roger Pielke Jr.
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation:
💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org
📬 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast
🐦 Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary:
Energiewende — is Germany a shining example of how to lead the global energy transition, or a cautionary tale of how not to do it?
In this unnerving episode, Mark Lynas is joined by German energy analyst and activist Noah Jakob Rettberg for a deep dive into one of Europe’s most consequential policy blunders: Germany’s nuclear shutdown.
Noah explains how the Energiewende — once celebrated as a green transition — has resulted in skyrocketing electricity prices, energy insecurity, and creeping deindustrialization. He reveals how anti-nuclear ideology within Germany’s Green Party has led to the dismantling of 12.5 GW of clean energy capacity, just when Europe needs it most.
They explore whether Germany’s nuclear plants can be restarted, what it would take politically, and why this is not just a fight about energy — but about the very future of liberal democracy in Europe.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
🇩🇪 The political origins of Germany’s Energiewende and anti-nuclear ideology
💶 The economic fallout: high prices, lost industry, and rising emissions
💡 Why Germany’s electricity consumption is falling — and why that’s not a good sign
🔋 Battery storage, hydrogen myths, and the brutal math of a “Dunkelflaute”
🪓 How decommissioning is erasing 12.5 GW of clean energy — and fast
🔧 The Radiant Energy restart plan: 9 reactors, €15B, 8 years
🧱 What it would take to reverse course legally and politically
🌍 Why this is Europe’s problem, not just Germany’s
🚨 How energy policy could undermine NATO, rearmament, and European stability
🧑🔬 Guest Bio:
Noah Jakob Rettberg is a leading figure in Germany’s pro-nuclear movement and an advisor to Nuklearia. He is a contributor to the Radiant Energy Group’s report on restarting Germany’s nuclear fleet and a frequent commentator on European energy policy.
📚 Recommended Reading & Listening:
Radiant Energy Group – Report on Nuclear Restarts in Germany
The Grim Fairy Tale of German Electricity (one of our DECOUPLE podcast favorites)
📝 Quote Highlights:
“Every day that passes is vandalism of clean energy infrastructure.” — Mark Lynas
“We don’t even have a tenth of a thousandth of the battery storage needed. And yet they believe we’ll run the grid this way.” — Noah Jakob Rettberg
“Europe needs Germany. And a strong Germany needs power. This is a battle for liberal democracy.” — Noah Jakob Rettberg
“You could restart nine reactors for less than what they’re spending on hydrogen-ready gas plants.” — Noah Jakob Rettberg
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a citizen and science movement that challenges conventional thinking to defend evidence-based solutions to environmental challenges. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation:
💬 Got thoughts on Germany’s energy future? Email us: podcast@weplanet.org
📬 Sign up for updates: weplanet.org/podcast
📸 Follow us on Twitter: @weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary:
What if the largest living space on Earth was being plundered before we even understood it?
In this timely episode, Mark Lynas speaks with marine conservationist Callum Roberts, Professor at the University of Exeter and lead author of a new Nature commentary calling for full protection of the high seas.
They challenge the pervasive (and dangerous) idea that the deep ocean is just a lifeless void — free for mining, overfishing, and exploitation. Callum explains why the high seas cover nearly half the planet’s surface and are a critical part of Earth’s life-support system: absorbing heat, producing oxygen, sequestering carbon, and hosting the largest migration on the planet.
From deep-sea mining to human slavery in high-seas fisheries, this is a shocking exposé of the last, vast wilderness on Earth — and why leaving it alone might be the smartest thing we’ve ever done.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
🌊 What the high seas actually are — and why they cover 43% of Earth’s surface
🧬 The astonishing biodiversity of the deep sea, much of it still unknown
☠️ Why mining polymetallic nodules could destroy ecosystems forever
💥 The false promises of “low-impact” deep-sea extraction
💸 Why deep-sea fisheries are only viable due to massive subsidies
📉 The case for full protection — not just 30% — of the high seas
🔒 The failure of the International Seabed Authority to act as a neutral regulator
🐟 What’s really inside your fish fingers (hint: could be 150-year-old deep-sea fish)
🧑🌾 Why aquaculture may be better — but not if it’s farmed salmon
🚨 Slavery, human trafficking, and illegal fishing on the high seas
👨🏫 Guest Bio:Callum Roberts is Professor of Marine Conservation at the University of Exeter and one of the world’s leading experts on the impact of fishing and human activity on the ocean. His books include The Unnatural History of the Sea and Reef Life, and he sits on the board of the Maldives Coral Institute. His latest work calls for a paradigm shift in how we govern the high seas — toward full ecological protection.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
The Unnatural History of the Sea – Callum Roberts
Reef Life: An Underwater Memoir – Callum Roberts
OSPAR Marine Protected Areas
💬 Quote Highlights:
“The high seas cover 43% of the planet — and yet remain largely unprotected, poorly governed, and misunderstood.” — Callum Roberts
“Mining the deep sea is like strip-mining the last untouched rainforest on Earth — except it’s darker, colder, and more mysterious.” — Callum Roberts
“Most of what we eat from the deep sea is only possible because we massively subsidize it — often more than the fish are worth.” — Callum Roberts
“The ocean is Earth’s life support system — it gives us oxygen, absorbs our heat, and locks away our carbon. We mess with it at our peril.” — Mark Lynas
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global science-and-citizen movement promoting evidence-based solutions to protect climate, nature, and prosperity. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation:Send feedback or questions: podcast@weplanet.org 📬 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast 🐦 Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary:
What if Earth came with a dashboard warning light — and it just started flashing red?
In this pivotal episode, Mark Lynas sits down with Johan Rockström, one of the world’s leading Earth system scientists and co-architect of the planetary boundaries framework — the closest thing we have to that planetary dashboard.
Together, they retrace the origin story of one of the most important scientific ideas of our time: that there are nine critical systems holding Earth in a stable, livable state… and that we’ve already pushed several of them past their limits.
From tipping points to nitrogen overshoot, and from nuclear war scenarios to political pushback, Johan offers a bracing but hopeful overview of where we stand — and what it will take to keep our only home within its safe operating space. This isn't just an academic discussion. It's a user's manual for the future of civilization.🧠 Topics Discussed:
🌍 What the nine planetary boundaries are — and why they matter
🧪 How Rockström and Will Steffen integrated Earth systems, tipping points, and Holocene stability into a new framework
🌡️ Why climate is just one boundary — and not even the most urgent
🧬 Why the framework avoids assumptions about human needs or technology
📉 The accelerating collapse of planetary resilience
🧭 The boundaries as a “safe operating space” — not a call for de-growth
🧱 Why sustainability constraints can drive innovation and prosperity
☣️ How nuclear war would break multiple boundaries at once
📊 The objective, precautionary science behind the threshold levels
🛑 Johan’s critique of the Breakthrough Institute’s pushback — and what’s changed since
👨🏫 Guest Bio:
Johan Rockström is Director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and Professor of Earth System Science at the University of Potsdam. He is a globally recognised expert in resilience, tipping points, and sustainability, and co-originated the planetary boundaries framework — a cornerstone of Earth system science used by scientists, policymakers, and businesses around the world.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
Planetary Boundaries: Exploring the Safe Operating Space for Humanity (2009)
Breaking Boundaries: The Science of Our Planet – Netflix & Book
The God Species – Mark Lynas (2011)
Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK)
Stockholm Resilience Centre – Planetary Boundaries Portal
💬 Quote Highlights:
“If you breach a boundary, you enter the danger zone. Cross too far, and you risk irreversible Earth system change.” — Johan Rockström
“We don’t set boundaries based on what humans need — we set them based on what the planet can tolerate.” — Johan Rockström
“The real tipping point is when Earth stops being our best friend — and starts amplifying the damage we’ve done.” — Johan Rockström
“We’ve made no progress. Zero. Halfway through the decisive decade, the curves are still heading in the wrong direction.” — Johan Rockström
“This isn’t about constraint vs growth — it’s about whether the playing field still exists for us to grow on.” — Mark Lynas🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement promoting bold, science-based solutions for climate, nature, and human prosperity. We challenge bad ideas and elevate the best ones. Learn more at weplanet.org.
📥 Join the Conversation:💬
Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📬 Subscribe for future episodes updates: weplanet.org/podcast 🐦 Follow us on Twitter/X: @weplanetint
🔍 Episode Summary:
In this revealing and deeply reflective conversation, Mark Lynas sits down with journalist and essayist Rebecca Tuhus-Dubrow, whose new book Atomic Dreams dives into the unexpected rise of climate-conscious pro-nuclear activism.
They explore the cultural and political history of nuclear power in the United States, the generational shift in attitudes, and the motley crew of environmentalists, influencers, policy wonks and iconoclasts who make up the new pro-nuclear movement. From Diablo Canyon to Pandora’s Promise, from James Hansen to Mothers for Nuclear, this episode is a journey through energy tribalism, climate urgency, and the evolving story of what it means to be an environmentalist.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
☢️ Why nuclear energy has always been a cultural lightning rod
🌍 How climate change changed minds — including Rebecca’s
📚 What Rebecca learned while researching Atomic Dreams
👩👧👦 The unexpected story of Mothers for Nuclear
🧠 Conversion stories: what turns anti-nuclear people pro?
💥 The legacy of anti-nuclear protest movements in the US
🔥 The fascination (and frustration) of figures like Michael Shellenberger
🎞️ The influence of Pandora’s Promise and the rise of "nuclear celebrities"
🧪 Radiation fears, hormesis, and scientific uncertainty
🇺🇸 Why nuclear hasn't been dragged into America’s culture wars (yet)
🏞️ Indigenous perspectives and land justice at Diablo Canyon
💸 The political shift in DC and the growing bipartisan support for nuclear
⚛️ Advanced reactors, thorium dreams, and the internal divisions of the pro-nuclear tribe
👩🏫 Guest Bio:
Rebecca Tuhus-Dubrow's work has appeared in The Nation, Dissent, The New York Times, The New Yorker, and many others. Her new book, Atomic Dreams: The New Nuclear Evangelists and the Fight for the Future of Energy (out April 8, 2025), explores the people, politics, and passions behind the return of the nuclear energy debate in the age of climate crisis.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
The Death of Environmentalism – Nordhaus & Shellenberger (PDF)
💬 Quote Highlights:
“If we trust Hansen on the science of climate change, maybe we should listen when he says nuclear needs to be part of the solution.” — Rebecca Tuhus-Dubrow
“The people in this movement aren’t all engineers — some of them are hippies, mothers, influencers, even ex-models.” — Rebecca Tuhus-Dubrow
“I came to see the pro-nuclear world as a tribe of its own, with factions, language, and competing visions.” — Rebecca Tuhus-Dubrow
“You can’t just get off fossil fuels without causing massive human suffering. That’s the reality that changed my mind.” — Mark Lynas
“The strange thing is, nuclear power hasn’t yet become a culture war issue in the US — and that might be its saving grace.” — Mark Lynas
🌐 About WePlanet:
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement promoting bold, science-based solutions for climate, nature, and human prosperity. We challenge bad ideas and elevate the best ones. Learn more at weplanet.org.
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