In this episode, we’re conducting a thorough investigation of the different theories and frameworks Safety professionals can adopt to keep their co-workers safe.
There’s been a palpable shift in attitudes towards workplace safety over recent years, with multiple more-human-centred approaches emerging. But their key differences and relative effectiveness often polarize the safety profession.
We’ve compiled a collection of clips from 16 of our previous guests to help define the the different approaches, including:
And also bring some clarity to the ongoing debate about which philosophy is best.
Featured guests (in order of appearance):
Pam Walaski (Episode 66): Changing attitudes to Safety
Josh Bryant (Episode 26): The 3 key principles of Safety Differently
Moni Hogg (Episode 39): Defining New View Safety?
Andrea Baker (Episode 13): An understanding of what Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) means
Bob Edwards (Episode 53): Does HOP lack accountability?
Stephen Scott (Episode 28): Adopting Critical Risk Management
Jodi Goodall (Episode 67): The High-Reliability Organization (HRO) framework
Clive Lloyd (Episode 44): The problem with Behavior-Based Safety
Murray Ritchie (Episode 72): In defense of Behavior-Based Safety
Tim D’Ath (Episode 61): An alternative to Behavior-Based Safety
Andrea Baker (Episode 13): Comparing Safety Theories
Elisa Lynch (Episode 14): New View versus traditional Safety
James MacPherson (Episode 64): Bickering over Safety labels
Carsten Busch (Episode 76): Is there an ideal blend of Safety approaches?
Dr Linda Martin (Episode 22): The problem with Safety theory
Elisa Lynch (Episode 14): Are Safety approaches debates helpful?
Murray Ritchie (Episode 72): Get rid of the Safety labels
Dr Todd Loushine (Episode 74): Welcoming Safety ideas
Sam Goodman (Episode 27): Respecting our Safety predecessors
Pam Walaski (Episode 66): Safety evolution
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Greg Smith, an international award-winning author and qualified lawyer who has spent more than two decades specializing in Safety and Health management. Greg is also regarded as a leading provider of Safety training, particularly in the areas of management responsibilities and contractor safety management.
Describing himself as ‘Safety agnostic’, Greg doesn’t care how HSE professionals approach Workplace Safety - he just wants to help you be effective. However, he knows how challenging this can be and explains why Safety is a ‘wicked problem’ that is essentially unsolvable.
Gregs discusses the impact of legal frameworks on Safety Management and shares real-life examples of the unintended consequences of the criminalization of Safety.
Safety processes and measurement are the key themes of this fascinating conversation, as Greg highlights where the profession has become disconnected from its purpose and how this can be addressed.
Greg’s highly acclaimed book: Paper Safe
Greg recommends the following podcasts:
Also this subscription service: OHS Alert | Premium Workplace health and safety news
And Ben Hutchinson’s research: Ben Hutchinson | LinkedIn
Greg Smith on LinkedIn: Greg Smith | LinkedIn
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In this episode, we’re conducting a thorough investigation of Safety metrics to help HSE practitioners measure (and manage) the factors that most accurately reflect Safety performance.
We’ve compiled a collection of thoughts, opinions and ideas about safety data, analysis and reporting from 19 of our previous guests discussing various aspects of this diverse and divisive subject.
Many question the existing reliance on lagging indicators and proxy KPIs, while the value of Zero Harm initiatives is particularly challenged.
But what are the alternatives? Are they easily quantifiable, will they satisfy senior leaders, and where does psychological safety fit into this discussion?
This Safety Measurement special features multiple perspectives on these crucial questions from experienced HSE professionals, consultants, authors and academics. We can’t promise definitive answers, but it will help you come to your own conclusions about Safety metrics - and how they can best keep your co-workers safe.
Featured guests (in order of appearance):
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Christian Harris, the founder of Slips Safety Services, who also hosts the Safety Roundtable and the Safety and Risk Success podcast. Christian, a social media communications expert, joins us today to offer EHS professionals practical guidance to strengthen your online presence.
Christian begins this insightful conversation by sharing his life-changing personal journey into Safety before explaining the concept of personal branding and why it’s so valuable for modern HSE professionals.
He provides a comprehensive guide to developing your personal brand and discusses the dos and don’ts of leveraging social media.
Packed with actionable advice such as being prolific rather than perfect, which channels to focus on, and the importance of developing a unique style, Christian also shares his fascinating views on the future of safety branding…
Find out more about Christian’s work:
The Safety Roundtable:
Take part in the Safety Roundtable
The Safety and Risk Success Podcast:
The Safety and Risk Success Podcast on Apple Podcasts
Christian highly recommends this book:
Key Person of Influence Book - Daniel Priestley
Christian Harris on LinkedIn:
Christian Harris on Youtube:
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In this episode, we’re conducting a thorough investigation of a EHS practitioner’s job description to help you focus on the areas of workplace safety that matter most.
We've compiled a collection of thoughts, opinions and ideas about Safety professional’s key responsibilities from 20 of our previous guests.
All agree that practitioners are no longer “Safety Cops” but what should they be instead: facilitators, conduits, coaches? Are they best placed to write policies, implement procedures or conduct investigations? Do duties need to expand into workplace bullying, mental health and full psychosocial risk management? And is Safety even the HSE professional's responsibility??
This Safety role special presents multiple perspectives on these crucial questions from experienced HSE professionals, consultants, authors and academics. It doesn't conclude with a definitive job description, but will help you decide what to do more of - and what is no longer in your remit.
Featured guests (in order of appearance):
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Carsten Busch - the "Indiana Jones of Safety", who has over 25 years of experience in HSEQ Management. and is a tutor in the Lund University human factors and system safety program.
Carsten is also a Safety historian and has extensively researched and written about the work of Herbert William Heinrich - and shares his finding with us in this fascinating interview.
Heinrich is considered by many to be the founder of modern Safety practice, but has become a polarizing figure in today’s safety discourse.
Carsten believes Heinrich’s work and legacy should be reappraised, and he helps Safety professionals understand what he actually wrote - rather than basing their knowledge on hearsay.
One of Carsten’s main concerns is that New View Safety authors aren’t applying their own principles when they criticize Heinrich and could be positioning his work to reinforce their own approaches.
Context is key and you’ll discover what Heinrich actually said, who his primary audience was (not Safety professionals!), and the surprising role insurance companies played in enhancing Workplace Safety in the 1930s.
Carsten’s book investigating Heinrich:
Preventing Industrial Accidents: Reappraising H. W. Heinrich
Recommended additional reading from Heinrich’s time:
Men and machines: Amazon.com: Chase, Stuart
Find out more about Carsten’s work:
Carsten on LinkedIn:
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find out more: www.sliceproducts.com
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Joelle Mitchell, an organizational psychologist and human factors specialist, who translates academic research findings from psychology, OHS and human factors into actionable risk management insights.
Joelle tells the story of her journey to specializing in psychosocial health, and helps simplify psychological safety for EHS practitioners.
She explores key hot topics, such as who should be responsible for psychosocial safety, and explains how organizational structures can significantly impact Workplace Safety.
Joelle proposes a well-balanced and highly practical approach to psychosocial risk management that allows HSE and HR to work together in an evolving model.
This fascinating discussion covers many elements of modern Workplace Safety, including managing inevitable trade-offs, incentivization issues, the vitality of risk management controls, moral injuries and the importance of humble inquiry.
Find out more about Joelle’s current role and work as Global Head of Psychological Health and Safety at: Flourish DX
Where you can also find psychosocial health and safety webinars, podcasts, training and tools.
Papers/books recommended by Joelle:
On the Folly of Rewarding A, While Hopig for B - by Stephen Kerr
Risk Management in a Dynamic Society - by Jens Rasmussen
Organising for Safety: How structure creates culture - by Andrew Hopkins
Connect with Joelle Mitchell on LinkedIn: Joelle Mitchell | LinkedIn
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find out more: www.sliceproducts.com
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Dr Todd Loushine, a former OSHA compliance officer and EHS practitioner who now teaches the next generation of Safety professionals as an Associate Professor at the University of Wisconsin.
Todd uses his wide-ranging experience to improve worker success, satisfaction and safety - and in this highly-engaging discussion, he focuses his wisdom on the importance of learning and practicing civil discourse.
Many guests on our show believe Safety education doesn’t adequately prepare tomorrow’s HSE professionals, but
Todd provides a more positive perspective.
He explains how students can be given the right level of challenge, guidance and soft-skill training to help them become successful Safety practitioners.
Debates about Safety do not always remain civil - especially on social media - and Todd explores why this happens and how the professional can raise the standards of discussion, openness to ideas and collaboration.
Both entertaining and enlightening throughout, Todd compares Safety to a teenager(!) and shares his vision of the profession without a regulator.
You can find most of Todd’s lectures on YouTube:
Todd recommends Safeopedia:
Safeopedia - Empowering the workplace with free health and safety info
Dr Todd Loushine on LinkedIn:
Todd William Loushine, PhD, PE, CSP, CIH | LinkedIn
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Dr Peter Brace, a psychological safety consultant who helps organizations link respect and accountability through psychological safety to improve team performance.
He begins this engaging conversation by clarifying how much influence Safety professionals can have on psychological safety. Perhaps surprisingly for a consultant, Peter explains that you can’t create psychologically safe workplaces. Instead he describes the conditions required for this emergent quality.
Peter reveals the 5 key aspects of psychological safety (as defined by leading neuroscientist David Rock): Status, Certainty, Autonomy, Relatedness, and Fairness - and how these conditions can be assessed and cultivated.
He also clears up the common misconceptions about psychological safety, highlights the key benefits and explains how this quality can be easily measured.
Safety practitioners will learn how psychological safety is an important precursor for physical health and safety, while deepening awareness of the importance of diversity and inclusion.
Find out more about Peter’s work:
Peter recommends the work of Professor Amy Edmondson and Dr. Timothy Clark
Dr Peter Barce on LinkedIn:
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Murray Ritchie, an experienced OHS practitioner, researcher, educator, and speaker who’s worked with various industries, governments, and NGOs.
He joins us to discuss the content of his new book: ‘Seven Bad Habits of Safety Management - Examining Systemic Failure’ (published September 2023).
Murray gives EHS professionals an honest, open and comprehensive appraisal of current approaches to Safety Management, covering education, regulations, Plan Do Check Act, the right to refuse, Heinrich, BBS, Zero Harm, Safety Culture, and so much more.
This insightful interview is packed with real-life examples from his 40-year career and extension academic research, highlighting where the industry is failing to improve.
Murray’s on a mission to propel Safety out of its ‘comfort zone’. This conversation helps HSE professionals focus on what’s important: finding facts and fixing them before somebody gets hurt.
Find out more about Murray’s work:
Tri-Lens Safety (trilenssafety.com)
Murray’s book:
Seven Bad Habits of Safety Management: Examining Systemic Failure
Murray recommended the work of Sydney Dekker and Clive Lloyd
Contact Murray by email:
murray@trilenssafety.com
Murray Ritchie on LinkedIn:
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In this episode, we’re conducting a thorough investigation of ‘safety culture’ to help HSE practitioners bring some clarity to this controversial term.
We've compiled a collection of thoughts, opinions and ideas about safety culture from 15 of our previous guests discussing various aspects of this nebulous subject.
The main dispute is whether safety culture actually exists, but even when we get past this, people rarely agree on its definition, measurement and implementation.
This safety culture special presents multiple perspectives on these crucial questions from experienced HSE professionals, consultants, authors and academics. We can’t promise definitive answers, but it will help you come to your own conclusions about safety culture - and what it means for your practice.
Featured guests (in order of appearance):
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Tony Muschara, a Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) specialist and owner of Mushara Error Management Consulting.
He’s also the author of several Safety books, including ‘Risk-based Thinking’, and its follow-up ‘Critical Steps’ - which is the main focus of this fascinating interview.
Tony begins by exploring the role of an EHS professional and reveals his strongly-held views on where responsibility for workplace Safety lies within an organization.
He then describes the 4 elements of risk-based thinking (anticipate, monitor, respond and learn), before sharing his recent research into the importance of critical steps in Safety management.
Safety professionals will learn what they are, how they can be identified and what can be done to ensure they are completed successfully - first time and every time - to avoid significant harm.
This discussion is packed with wisdom from Tony’s distinguished career in Safety, including why aiming for excellence isn’t always good enough, when to think slow, how to fail safely, and his mantra: “If you don’t have doubts, you haven’t been paying attention”.
Your approach to Safety will definitely be enhanced by paying attention to this interview!
Find out more about Tony’s work: Muschara
Books recommended by Tony:
Managing the Risk of Organizational Accidents and Organizational Accidents Revisited by James Reason
Operational Risk Control by Derek Viner
Managing the Unexpected: Assuring High Performance in an Age of Complexity
By Karl E. Weick and Kathleen M. Sutcliffe
Organizing for Safety by Andrew Hopkins
Engineering a Safer World by Nancy Leveson
Tony Muschara on LinkedIn:
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Stephan Wiedner, an entrepreneur on a mission to abolish apathy in the workplace. He’s the cofounder of Noomii.com, the web’s largest network of independent life coaches and Skillsetter.com, a platform similar to a flight simulator for practicing interpersonal skills.
Safety management relies on trust, persuasion, and approachability, yet EHS professionals may not have been taught these skills during their training. In fact, there’s a common conception these qualities are inherent and can’t be taught.
Stephan presents an upbeat and convincing case for why Safety professionals can - and should - develop their interpersonal skills.
He explains that the key to improving nebulous concepts, such as empathy, is to break them down into specific learnable practical skills.
Stephan teaches HSE professionals how this is done - with a strong emphasis on the importance of psychological safety - while dispelling ongoing misconceptions about interpersonal skills.
Find out more about the foundational academic research undertaken by Tim Anderson investigating the impact of interpersonal skills:
The books recommended by Stephan:
Peak: Secrets from the New Science of Expertise: Amazon.com: Ericsson, Anders, Pool, Robert
Stephan Wiedner on LinkedIn:
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find us at www.sliceproducts.com
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Christian Hunt, author of 'Humanizing Rules' and founder of Human Risk, a consultancy and training firm that brings behavioral science to ethics & compliance.
Christian helps Safety practitioners understand and minimize their exposure to human risk, and he begins by explaining why he wrote his latest book.
Packed with entertaining anecdotes, this lively conversation explores the 3 key drivers of human behavior and introduces a simple framework (‘HUMANS’) that will help EHS professionals evaluate and design behavioral interventions (e.g. a new rule or communication program).
Throughout the interview, Christian emphasizes the importance of looking at things from the workers’ perspective - who are humans, not robots:
“Think not about what we would like people to do, but what they're likely to do.”
In this action-packed episode, we also learn 6 golden rules of compliance, including ‘Compliance is an outcome, not a process’, and ‘Just because you can doesn’t mean you should’.
This was Christinian’s second appearance on our podcast (his first was episode 4), and we hope he returns for a third time!
Find out more about Christian’s work:
Human Risk | Make your compliance programme more effective
Christian’s new book: ‘Humanizing Rules’:
Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance
Christian’s Podcast:
Books recommended by Christian:
“Thinking Fast and Slow” by Daniel Kahneman –
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0374533555
“Influence is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen” by Zoe Chance – https://www.amazon.com/dp/198485433X
Christian Hunt on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/humanrisk/
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find us at www.sliceproducts.com
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Jodi Goodall, a High-Reliability Organization (HRO) expert who’s been in the safety profession for 20 years. Her operational experience spans mining, defense, explosives, heavy maintenance and logistics, and she’s currently head of organizational reliability at Brady Haywood, a consultancy in Brisbane.
Jody’s approach to Safety is based on systems thinking and the practices of HROs - and she begins this enlightening interview by explaining what strategies and organizations this acronym covers.
She walks EHS practitioners through the 5 characteristics of HROs, using practical examples of how they can enhance workplace safety:
Jodi explains that HRO is dotted throughout all the current safety theories and calls for HSE professionals to focus on practices, not academia and recognize that we’re all heading in the same direction.
She believes there’s too much investment in traditional Safety approaches and encourages the profession to welcome failure, trust the workforce, and be less judgemental and more helpful.
Find out more about Jodi’s work:
Brady Heywood | Complex Systems Thinking
Jodi recommends the work of Andrew Hopkins:
Amazon.com: Andrew Hopkins: Books, Biography, Blogs, Audiobooks, Kindle
And this book about the US Nay culture:
Jodi Goodall on LinkedIn:
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find us at www.sliceproducts.com
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Pam Walaski, Senior Vice President of the American Society of Safety Professionals (ASSP), who uses her considerable experience to teach the next generation of HSE practitioners.
Pam shares her insightful views on the current state of safety education. She highlights the key gaps, limitations and challenges and explains which elements need to evolve.
Safety professionals will also learn about Pam’s personal journey from “safety cop” mentality to seeing workers as the solution rather than the problem. This mindset shift has significantly influenced her approach to safety education, and rapport, empathy, respect, and dignity are key themes in this compassionate interview.
Pam helps EHS professionals to stop thinking in terms of “right” and “wrong” and instead focus on learning, evolution and being open to change.
Pam recommends these online resources for Safety practitioners:
Safety Differently – Innovative and critical safety thinking
Human and Organizational Performance | HOP Hub
Authors recommended by Pam:
Todd Conklin, Sidney Dekker and Rosa Antonia Carrillo
Pam also suggests listening to these podcasts:
Pam Walaski on LinkedIn:
Pam Walaski, CSP, FASSP | LinkedIn
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find us at www.sliceproducts.com
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Dr L. Casey Chosewood, Director of Total Worker Health (TWH) at the American National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), which is part of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
Dr Chosewood provides a comprehensive overview of the origins and purpose of the TWH initiative - an emerging discipline that he hopes will change the way Safety professionals practice.
In this uplifting interview, he discusses his role in promoting the protection and improvement of workers' health, safety, and wellbeing through research, intervention, development and partnerships.
Casey discusses the key workplace safety initiatives his team is implementing and shares essential tools for EHS practitioners who want to learn more about TWH.
Total Worker Health isn’t just focused on helping organizations keep their workforce safe. Additionally, it aims to improve workers’ health and wellbeing. Dr Chosewood explains how this benefits everyone - including wider society - and shares his inspiring vision for people to go home from work healthier than they arrived.
Learn more about Total Worker Health:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/twh/totalhealth.html
To contact Casey and his team:
The TWH Essential Guide:
Fundamentals of Total Worker Health Approaches | NIOSH | CDC
The NIOSH Worker Well-Being Questionnaire:
Worker Well-Being Questionnaire (WellBQ) | NIOSH | CDC
Dr L. Casey Chosewood on LinkedIn:
L. Casey Chosewood, MD MPH | LinkedIn
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find us at www.sliceproducts.com
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with James MacPherson, the straight-talking host of the influential podcast and YouTube channel, ‘Rebranding Safety’, who also recently founded his own consultancy, ‘Risk Fluent’ (with his wife).
In this unrestrained interview (with some colorful language), James leaves Safety professionals with no doubt about how the profession can improve itself.
After describing his journey, he dives straight into his forthright views about Safety’s image problem and the “bickering” about Safety theory.
James is never afraid to challenge traditional approaches to Safety, but he also challenges the ‘labeling’ of alternative views and clearly defines the role he’d like academics to play.
He doesn’t hold back in his damning assessments of Safety Associations and HSE training and shares his concerns about the prevalence and impact of “Trickle-down Safety’.
James completes his passionate appraisal of the Safety world by urging EHS practitioners to embrace AI, focus on critical thinking and calm down!
Find out more about James’ work:
Risk Fluent Ltd - Health, Safety and Culture consultant
His ‘Rebranding Safety’ podcast and Youtube channel:
Rebranding Safety on Apple Podcasts
Rebranding Safety | Podcast on Spotify
James highly recommends these other podcasts for Safety practitioners:
Podcast - The World of Work Project
Cautionary Tales | Tim Harford
…and the following books:
By Amy Edmondson
By Matthew Syed
James MacPherson on LinkedIn:
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find us at www.sliceproducts.com
If you have any questions, please email us at safetylabs@sliceproducts.com
In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Nicolai Massyn, a corporate compliance and risk management expert who’s founded several companies focused on EHS compliance tech, regulatory tech, and consulting services. Nicola is also a successful writer and has recently co-authored: ‘The Safety Professional’s Role in Environmental, Social & Governance Initiatives’ (with Linda Martin).
Nicolai opens this fascinating conversation with a comprehensive overview and brief history of all the initiatives included in the Environment, Social and Governance elements of ESG.
He then explains where Safety and ESG converge and why Safety professionals are so well-placed to manage ESG going forward.
We also learn why ESG training is essential for forward-thinking EHS professionals and where to start your learning journey.
Nicolai believes that digitization will greatly help practitioners of safety assume ESG responsibilities and encourages you to embrace the exciting opportunities this will present - after all, ESG is here to stay!
The Safety in ESG article Nicolai co-authored with Linda Martin:
f1martinmassyn_0323.pdf (assp.org)
Nicolai Massyn on LinkedIn:
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find us at www.sliceproducts.com
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In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Cameron Stevens, a technologist and a Chartered Health and Safety professional who’s worked in the OHS profession for over 15 years developing expertise in transforming organizations with his unique approach.
Cameron works at the intersection of technology and safety, and in this fascinating discussion, he helps EHS professionals understand how safety tech will impact their roles.
After reflecting on current perceptions about technology, Cameron explains why Safety professionals are perfectly placed to be the concierges who help bridge the gap between tech specialists and frontline workers.
He discusses the opportunities AI offers the profession but also explores the current limitations and ethics of safety data and why some safety professionals may be reluctant to adopt new tech.
Cameron’s interview is a call to action for EHS practitioners to develop an innovation mindset and be curious about the benefits of adopting new tech.
Find out more about Cameron’s work:
https://hseq-academy.com/pocketknife-group/
Cameron Stevens on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameronmstevens
Additional resources recommended by Cameron:
The Fourth Industrial Revolution: Klaus Schwab
International Labour Organization
About Work to Zero - National Safety Council
Cameron Stevens on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameronmstevens
Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find us at www.sliceproducts.com
If you have any questions, please email us at safetylabs@sliceproducts.com
