Derek Webb was part of a remarkable success story with Caedmon's Call in the late '90s. But the more success he witnessed, the less he could keep quiet. Now in his solo career he stands confidently alongside the marginalized, even attending the Dove Awards in a dress.  Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app) Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

In season two of Shiny Happy People, the Amazon Prime Original docu-series turns its focus to Teen Mania Ministries, the organization that made Acquire The Fire stadium events. These events are described in the series as "youth group Coachella." But Christian music was just the tip of the iceberg with Teen Mania.  To unpack the series, Andrew is joined by Krispin Mayfield, a fellow podcaster and licensed therapist who specializes in helping people with religious trauma.  Learn more about Krispin at krispinmayfield.com and his current podcast project, Strongwilled, at Substack: strongwilled.substack.com Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app) Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

Glenn Kaiser has had a huge influence on Christian music as a musician, a festival co-founder and an outspoken thought leader. He was our top guest choice for our live taping in January of 2025 in Chicago. While Glenn Kaiser is a singular figure in the world of Christian music, we are aware that Jesus People USA is a triggering topic for some listeners. For a more thorough examination of Jesus People USA check out the book Grey Sabbath or for the perspective of abuse survivors from JPUSA, the film No Place To Call Home. This interview does not go into the topic of abuse, but we gave Glenn the opportunity to address it via email. He said, "The sad reality is sins of abuse, etc. happen and how to best respond to such regardless is a long work that has progressed for us. Over the past decade we've established several professional safeguards to ensure the safety of children and policies to address it. All in leadership and most in the wider fellowship have completed courses re. abuse and are mandated reporters." Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app) Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

Mason Mennenga is really good at social media. You've probably seen his posts about evangelical culture, Christian music or VeggieTales. But he does a lot more than just that. He hosts two podcasts: A People's Theology and The BlackSheep Podcast. He has a YouTube channel. He writes academic papers on music. And he works in the admissions office of a seminary. His social media bio was once "Skillet's Wario" and last year he interviewed the lead singer of Skillet. We were excited to talk with the internet's crass youth pastor earlier this year.    Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app) Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

No new episode this week. Be back next Wednesday. Check our Patreon for some bonus content if you're interested.  Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app) Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

In 1998 it seemed like Josh Caterer had it made. His band, Smoking Popes, had three critically acclaimed albums out. They were signed to Capitol Records. He had married his high school sweetheart. But Josh had also just become a Christian and couldn't reconcile his rock band life with his new evangelical life. So he quit the band.  On today's episode hosts Andrew Gill and Dr. Leah Payne talk with Josh Caterer about that decision, how the band got back together, their new album, Lovely Stuff, and their new single, "Allegiance."  Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app) Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

In mid-June NPR published a story with the headline "Christian music is experiencing a pop breakthrough." As podcasters covering the Christian music industry, we usually think it reached it's zenith of popularity in the early 2000s, so this article caught our attention. To dig deeper into the topic, we invited the article's author, Emma Madden, on the podcast. Our chat was wide ranging and gets into the influence of worship music on new Christian pop music, differences in religious culture in the UK versus the US, the role of social media in spreading singles by Brandon Lake and Forrest Frank, the conservative political environment in the US and the changing standards of personal behavior expected of Christian pop stars.  Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app) If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

This week on the show it's legends only: Russ Taff and Steve Taylor. They collaborated on Russ' new album, "Cover Story," but both have long and distinctive careers in the Christian music industry.  Russ Taff became lead singer of The Imperials in 1976, started his solo career in 1983, earning two Grammys and many Dove awards. He was one of the industry's biggest solo male stars, but his most beloved songs are Pentecostal worship songs that connect all the way back to his childhood. Over the years he has dealt with alcoholism off and on, though he is beloved among his peers in the industry.  Steve Taylor started his career as a new wave Randy Newman type, calling out hypocrisy in the evangelical church, while also becoming an "underground" hero to Christian music fans. In the early 1990s he formed the band Chagall Guevara, deepening the devotion of his alternative fandom. In 1997 he became a label boss when he launched Squint Entertainment, which signed Sixpence None The Richer and released the massive hit single, "Kiss Me." Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app) If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

Michael Tait, most recently lead singer of The Newsboys and also well known as one third of DC Talk, confessed to accusations of sexual assault and drug abuse on June 10, 2025. This came after deeply reported investigations into his behavior were published first by The Roys Report and then by The Guardian.  The day before this news broke, whistleblowers accused the worship leader best known for right wing political agitation, Sean Feucht, of financial misappropriation and spiritually coercive leadership tactics.  Hosts Leah Payne and Andrew Gill discuss the two scandals and what each of these figures mean in the context of American evangelicalism. They're joined by Kelsey Kramer McGinnis, a musicologist and worship correspondent for Christianity Today. Her Substack piece on both men is very insightful.   Additional reading: Hayley Williams on Michael Tait Kelsey's book "The Myth of Good Christian Parenting" Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app) You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

A short update on progress towards season three of Rock That Doesn't Roll. 

Buy tickets for our live show in Chicago on January 5! It's the second annual Rock That Doesn't Roll CCM Christmas Song Awards! Listen to find out what awards Amy Grant, Sarah Masen, Carman, Stryper and David Meece won this year. Do you have a song that deserves an award? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

Charlie Peacock is a renowned figure in the music industry for his solo albums, production work, songwriting and his record label RE:Think, which launched Switchfoot and Sarah Mason. Outside of the music industry spotlight he and his wife Andi Ashworth were creating a very unique space in Nashville called The Art House. Their experiences with The Art House inspired their recent book, "Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt."  Leah actually worked at The Art House more than 20 years ago, so we were eager to talk with Charlie and Andi about this book.  To hear the full hour-long interview, visit our Patreon.  In the Patreon-only version of this episode, Charlie also shares which collaborator he considers one of the best songwriters in the world. Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

Jordan Morris is a long time podcaster, comedy writer and creator and co-writer of the two-time Eisner-nominated graphic novel Bubble (based on the hit podcast). His new graphic novel, co-written with artist Bowen McCurdy is Youth Group. It draws on Jordan's real life experiences in a Orange County California youth groups in the 1990s, but adds literal demon hunting to the list of church-approved activities.  In the Patreon-only version of this episode, he also shares a story about Christian summer camp and we share ideas for casting a film adaptation of Youth Group. Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

Second Sunday is one of our sibling podcasts with PRX's Big Questions Project.  Second Sunday is about Black Queer folks finding, keeping and sometimes losing faith. Mark Miller is a graduate of Juilliard and Yale University with an expertise in choral conducting, sacred music, and voice. His hymns and anthems are sung by communities of faith throughout the world, and his album, Imagine the People of God, is available on iTunes. He believes that music, social justice, and the beloved community are inextricably tied. His story is about finding God and himself through music. The Second Sunday podcast is hosted by Esther and Darren Calhoun. Follow Esther @estheralready,https://www.instagram.com/estheralreadyFollow Darren @heydarren, https://www.instagram.com/heydarrenFollow Second Sunday @secondsundaypod, https://instagram.com/secondsundaypodSubscribe to the podcast, https://secondsundaypod.com

In this bonus episode Leah and Andrew talk with Blake Chastain, the first person to use "exvangelical" as a hashtag (and host of the Exvangelical podcast) about his book, "Exvangelical and Beyond: How American Christianity Went Radical and the Movement That's Fighting Back." He shares about his time as a "bookstore guy" and how the academic concepts of "counter public" and "hyperobject" are helpful in understanding what's happening in American evangelicalism.  In the Patreon-only version of this episode, he also shares a story about a song that left him temporarily paralyzed at work once. Plus we discuss not one, but two different songs by Ray Boltz.  Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

Today we're sharing an episode from another Big Questions Project podcast: Mother Is A Question.  "This episode is called "Mother Is A Song," and we’re traveling to a place and time when mama was the muse–back when musicians in the U.S. were constantly singing about “the one who’s always true,” as one of these songs goes. One hundred years ago in the U.S., in the early days of recorded music, a lot of the songs people were listening to were about one particular person: mother.  Thanks to Sarah Bryan, the Association for Cultural Equity, and to Dust to Digital for inspiring this episode. Mother is a Question is created by Natasha Haverty and Julia Metzger-Traber Our editor is Rob Rosenthal Original Music by Raky Sastri and Julia Read"

If there's one music genre lampooned more than Christian rock, it might just be ska. And Christian ska? Expect next level ridicule. But a lovable band of misfits from Denver, Colorado managed to do something that might seem unthinkable: combine two maligned genres and become a cultural phenomenon with an enduring cult following. On the season two finale of Rock that Doesn't Roll, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the unlikely rise of Five Iron Frenzy, with insight from Leanor Ortega Till, aka "Jeff the Girl," aka the saxophonist from one of the best-loved bands in the Christian rock universe. Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

Picture this. It's 1986. The Cold War is at a fever pitch. The whole world is locked into a conflict between the Forces of Freedom, and the Commies... at least that's how it felt to 80s kids. But the Cold War wasn't the only threat facing American society. Many feared that a much more sinister enemy lurking in the shadows: the devil himself. During the so-called satanic panic, parents worried that their kids would get caught by the Lord of Darkness, and rock - specifically heavy metal from notoriously debauched bands like Motley Crüe - was a big threat. What was an evangelical teen metal fan to do when the whole genre was tainted by Beelzebub? You fight fire with fire, and send Satan straight to hell with the legendary band Stryper. With insight from Stryper's Michael Sweet, and White Lion's Mike Tramp, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the epic battle for the soul of Stryper, the undisputed kings of 1980s Christian Metal who wanted to fight Satan on his home turf - the raucous world of mainstream metal. Along the way, they found that the battle lines between demons and angels can get a bit blurry. How do you win the war when you aren't exactly sure who is friend or foe?  Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

How do you make fake Contemporary Christian Music? Creating fictional Christian music that feels authentic without crossing the line into parody or pastiche is a tricky artistic challenge. But we found the creators up to the task. Joseph Stephens, composer for HBO's The Righteous Gemstones, a crime-comedy about a family of musical televangelists, and composer Daniel Smith (Danielson) and filmmaker Chris White of Electric Jesus, an independent film about an aspiring 80s Christian metal band, pay homage to Christian music makers of the past and create catchy Christian music that's feels and sounds an awful lot like the real thing. On this episode of Rock that Doesn't Roll, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music), immerse themselves in the Southern Gospel strains of The Righteous Gemstones and glam-band anthems of Electric Jesus, and get a behind-the-scenes look at the artistry, craftsmanship, and heart involved in creating convincing fake CCM songs for the screen. Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

KUOW's podcast Let The Kids Dance! is the story of Seattle's Teen Dance Ordinance in a seven-part docuseries chronicling an untold chapter of pop-culture history. It’s a story about moral panic, grassroots activism and an unstoppable music community that fought for its freedom, created and hosted by Jonathan Zwickel. The TDO made it impossible for venue owners to turn a profit while hosting all-ages shows. But the law contained a few exceptions, allowing concerts at nonprofit spaces and religious institutions. Savvy promoters take full advantage. In the latter half of the 90s, two all-ages venues sent a lifeline to the all-ages community by hosting unforgettable shows, leading to dramatically different results.  One of those venues was Mars Hill's The Paradox. It was one of Mark Driscoll's early footholds in Seattle and hosted all ages concerts by secular and Christian bands- as well as worship services. Listen to the official Let the Kids Dance! playlist on Spotify.  Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave RTDR a message at (629) 777-6336. If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.