There are no shortcuts for rebuilding the Pacific Palisades. Even those who are returning are daunted by the task, wondering who else will come back, and nervous about the hidden dangers of the toxic debris produced by the fire. Homes are starting to go up, and there is a plan for at least some of those third spaces – the elementary schools, the high school, and the community center. But affordability is still a big hurdle that will determine whether people can return, and there are still a lot of questions about how to make the community safer when the next disaster strikes. There is also a lot of anger about why any of this was allowed to happen in the first place — most of it is directed at L.A. Mayor Karen Bass. By contrast, the Palisades’ elected city councilmember Traci Park is seen by many residents as a champion. She joins Kate to talk about what’s next for the area. Guest: Traci Park, L.A. City Councilmember, 11th District. Pacific Palisades Vision Plan: https://cd11.lacity.gov/news/pacific-palisades-rebuild-vision

In the last few years, after massive blazes in Northern California destroyed forests and towns, the state changed the way it managed wildfires. It shifted its policy from a fire suppression strategy to one that oversaw small burns and other efforts to help thin overgrown forests and reduce the amount of fuel that could prolong a fire. Now, the state’s fire officials realize it has to change course again for Southern California because the approach to forest fire management up north doesn’t really apply to the chaparral and shrubland that cover the southern coasts. And part of the solution could involve good old-fashioned volunteer work. Guests: Noah Haggerty, environment and science reporter for the Los Angeles Times, specializing in wildfire coverage. Karen Leigh Hopkins, Pacific Palisades resident, filmmaker Read Noah’s Stories: The state’s wildfire policy long overlooked SoCal. Now it’s course correcting: https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2025-10-16/fire-strategy-socal Man, machine and mutton: Inside the plan to prevent the next SoCal fire disaster: https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2025-10-14/the-plan-to-prevent-the-next-socal-fire-disaster To solve the wildfire crisis, we have to let the myth of ‘the wild’ die: https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2025-08-28/boiling-point-the-myth-keeping-wildfires-alive In high-tech race to detect fires early, O.C. bets on volunteers with binoculars: https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2025-08-15/o-c-bets-on-volunteers-to-detect-fires-early

Out of the top 20 most destructive wildfires in California, 15 of them have occurred in the last decade. There’s the Camp Fire, the Woolsey Fire, the Tubbs Fire, the Carr Fire, the Thomas Fire and, of course, LA’s Eaton and Palisades Fires. The list is long. It’s stunning when you think about it. Fires of this magnitude were rare before the year 2000. Most of these communities have started to build back but …how far along they are depends on a lot of factors…especially how much money people have access to…and even then…the same residents don’t always move back in. As we near the first anniversary of the fire here in LA, we want to look at what can be learned from other communities who’ve been through it, and what the next several years might look like for us. Guests: Nicole Lambrou, executive director of Tinkercraft, an environmental and design research studio. She’s also an Assistant Professor at Cal Poly Pomona, and has spent the last few years studying wildfire recovery efforts in California. Rebecca Zandovskis, Altadena resident Check out Nicole’s work: How Do You Rebuild Community After Wildfire? https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/how-do-you-rebuild-community-after-wildfire/ Social drivers of vulnerability to wildfire disaster: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169204623001160 Housing and Economic Recovery as Interdependent Pathways in the Wake of Wildfires: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/395635200_Housing_and_Economic_Recovery_as_Interdependent_Pathways_in_the_Wake_of_Wildfires Related stories from the LA Times: What can Palisades, Altadena learn from other California wildfire rebuilds? 22,500 homes lost. Over five years later, only 38% rebuilt: What California fire survivors face: https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2025-09-30/rebuilding-california-after-major-wildfires Younger, richer and smaller: How California’s era of wildfire has changed communities forever: https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2025-09-30/how-communities-change-after-wildfire

In 2018, a devastating fire ripped through the mountain community of Paradise, California. 85 people died. And almost the entire town burned to the ground. The Camp Fire remains the most destructive and deadliest fire in the state’s history, destroying more structures than the Eaton and Palisades Fires combined. Nearly seven years later, Paradise is coming back — it’s not the same, and so far, many of the residents have not returned. Less than half of the pre-fire population has returned to Paradise and about half of the people now living there are new to the community. Rebuilding is hard. Survivors are facing tough choices while they still navigate the trauma they experienced. But many will argue that Paradise is safer. Electrical lines went underground, evacuation routes were reconfigured …and about 200-thousand trees were cut down as it became a priority to create a fire-resiliant landscape. Guests: Greg Bolin, long time resident, former mayor, and current member of the Paradise City Council. Colette Curtis, Recovery and Economic Development Director for Paradise. Read Noah Haggerty’s most recent story about Paradise: https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2025-01-24/ex-paradise-mayor-offers-advice-to-los-angeles-recovery-wildfires

A NOTE: We taped this episode on Oct. 13, 2025. It’s a developing story. Please check the Los Angeles Times for updates. At the time of this taping, 29-year-old Jonathan Rinderknecht is in federal custody,  charged with starting a fire — the Lachman Fire — that investigators say became the Palisades Fire. Investigators with the Bureau Of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, or ATF, are calling the Palisades Fire a “holdover” fire, which means it was a continuation of the Lachman Fire that started just after midnight on New Year’s Day 2025. That initial fire burned underground, undetected, for almost a week when heavy winds forced it to the surface on January 7th. Hours After Rinderknecht’s arrest, the Los Angeles Fire Department released an internal report on its response to the Palisades Fire. And while critical of the department’s overall preparedness on January 7th, the report has very little information about how it handled the Lachman Fire — and that has left fire survivors with a lot of questions, and very little closure. Guest: LA Times Crime Reporter Richard Winton In this episode we also hear from Pacific Palisades residents Wade Major, Karen Hopkins, Allison Holdorff Polhill, and Hank Wright Read: Richard’s most recent stories on this case: Florida man ‘maliciously’ started Palisades fire, then tried to cover his tracks, authorities allege: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-10-08/palisades-fire-arrest Palisades fire suspect placed gun in stuffed animal, made recent fire threat, feds allege: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-10-11/feds-say-palisades-suspect-court Could LAFD have done more to prevent rekindling of Palisades fire?: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-10-08/lafd-timeline

Nine months and one investigation later, it is still not clear why neighborhoods in Altadena, California did not get an alert to evacuate until 3:25 a.m on January 8th — if residents got one at all — despite repeated calls to 911, hours earlier, that flames from the Eaton Fire were spotted in the area. The McChrystal Group’s 130-plus page report looks into what happened, but the scope is limited as it only includes information provided by Los Angeles County, and it finds that while there was a whole system of failures that night that led to catastrophe, no one person, or agency, was directly responsible. This missing data and lack of accountability in the report has outraged residents of Altadena. Even the L.A. County Board of Supervisors that commissioned the report has criticized some of its findings. To find out more about what’s in the McChrystal report — and what is not — we turn to Terry Castleman and Grace Toohey, breaking news reporters for the L.A. Times. Both began covering the failures of the alert system soon after the Eaton Fire burned through Altadena. Plus, we will hear from Altadena Resident Linda Bazilian whose husband was left to fight the flames from the Eaton Fire by himself the night of January 7th, only to have his home burn down the next day. Guests: Terry Castleman and Grace Toohey, reporters for the the Los Angeles Times Linda Bazilian, Altadena resident Check out Grace and Terry's Stories: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-09-25/l-a-county-release-investigation-into-botched-altadena-evacuations https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-09-25/the-eaton-fire-how-the-system-failed-altadena https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-09-27/no-smoking-gun-report-on-altadena-cites-failures-but-did-not-name-names

The insurance industry in California was fragile even before the January fires in Los Angeles. Since the Camp Fire in Paradise and other devastating blazes in Napa, Sonoma, and Ventura Counties, home insurance rates skyrocketed for many Californians. Companies dropped customers and left the state because of the perceived risks of wildfires and other disasters in so many communities. Now, after the Eaton and Palisades Fires, a lot of residents are wondering if anyone in these areas can get a home insured again. So how did we get here? And where do we go from here? Host Kate Cagle tries to get some answers. Guests: Judson Boomhower, an associate professor in the economics department at UC San Diego, specializing in climate risk and adaption. Tamara Rawitt, Pacific Palisades resident

One of the biggest stories to emerge from these fires is the insurance nightmare fire survivors have endured. Not all stories of insurers are bad but the number of residents who have reported trouble with their insurance company is in the thousands. The bottom line: people report not getting the money they believe they deserve under their policies to help them rebuild and replace what was lost. Even those residents whose homes still stand are struggling and are battling with their insurance providers over smoke damage and the cost of clean up, repairs and testing for lingering toxic substances. In the first part of a two part look at the insurance situation in Southern California, we speak to Laurence Darmiento who covers the industry for the Los Angeles Times. He shares with us the stories he’s heard from survivors of both the Eaton and Palisades Fires. Guests: Laurence Darmiento, Los Angeles Times reporter covering the insurance industry in California as well as finance and aerospace. Joe Ressa, Altadena resident Check out some of Laurence’s recent stories: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2025-09-22/insurance-rights-initiative-proposed-by-leading-consumer-group https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2025-09-08/despite-court-loss-california-fair-plan-sticking-to-disputed-smoke-damage-policy https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2025-08-25/local-politicians-and-january-fire-survivors-hold-press-conference-over-insurance-claims-payments https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2025-01-09/la-fires-property-home-insurance-crisis-fair-plan-lara-state-farm-allstate-palisades-eaton-altadena-wildfires

The sale of lots in the Altadena burn zones has slowed down but there is still a lot of uncertainty among some residents about whether they can rebuild. There is concern felt across some of these neighborhoods that their neighbors won’t — or can’t — come back, and that the overall character — the diversity, the eclecticism, the bohemianism — of their beloved Altadena will change. Enter nonprofit groups like Greenline Housing Foundation. Greenline’s mission is to close the racial wealth gap in the U.S. by helping Black and Latino families buy their first home. In Altadena, where so many Black and Latino families lost properties, Greenline has provided grants to fire survivors for interim housing, and is also working on helping people finance the purchase of a lot. Greenline even bought its own lot with a plan to build on it and sell back to a community member. We’ll also hear from resident and coach Zaire Calvin who lost his home and his sister, Evelyn McClendon in the Eaton fire. She was 59. Guests: Jasmin Shupper, founder, Greenline Housing Foundation Zaire Calvin, Altadena Resident.

The much ballyhooed Fire Aid concert in January, featuring artists from Billie Eilish to Joni Mitchell to No Doubt, raised $100 million to help assist people in the immediate aftermath of the Eaton and Palisades Fires. Over the summer, the organizers came under a lot of scrutiny by some residents — and even President Donald Trump — who all questioned how the money was spent. August Brown covers the music industry for the Los Angeles Times and made a lot of calls, trying to track down where the Fire Aid grants went, and how they were used. He’s got some answers for the skeptics, and shares them with host Kate Cagle. Guest: Los Angeles Times Reporter August Brown August’s Stories: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2025-07-30/fireaid-retains-law-firm-to-review-grants-after-trumps-misleading-criticism https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2025-07-23/where-did-the-fireaid-money-go https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2025-07-23/where-did-the-fireaid-money-go https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2025-02-18/fireaid-grants-50-million-la-wildfire-relief

Pandora’s Box: The Fall of L.A.’s Sheriff is a six-part true crime investigation from the Los Angeles Times about one of the biggest law enforcement scandals in U.S. history. Follow Pulitzer Prize–winning reporter Christopher Goffard as he uncovers how Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca, once hailed as a reformer, became entangled in a shocking cover-up inside the nation’s largest jail system. From FBI informants and jailhouse brutality to corruption at the highest levels, this series reveals how deputies hid an inmate, intimidated federal agents, and ultimately brought down one of California’s most powerful sheriffs.

On the morning of the Palisades Fire, streets were already gridlocked by the time the first widespread evacuation order was issued. Eventually, people were told to leave their cars behind and run, setting off a harrowing escape for many residents.For decades it was an open secret that the Pacific Palisades didn’t have enough roads out of town for people to evacuate effectively and efficiently during an emergency, and January 7th made that plain. It took over 6 hours to get everyone out.In the hope of preventing this type of situation, a state law was passed after the Camp Fire killed 85 people in Paradise, Calif., requiring cities and counties to do a detailed analysis of evacuation plans. That essentially meant outlining specific routes to take — not to take — during different scenarios, and how long it would to get everyone out of harm’s way. But so far the city has not provided evidence that it has done this, or said when it would provide it.The Los Angeles Times’ Noah Haggerty started looking into this and he joins Rebuilding LA host Kate Cagle to talk about it. Guest: Noah Haggerty, LA Times reporter covering the environment, health, and science. Nancy Cassaro-Fracchiolla, Pacific Palisades resident and former drama teacher at Palisades High Noah’s Stories: https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2025-07-31/la-councilmember-traci-park-pushes-city-to-analyze-evacuation-routeshttps://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2025-07-25/l-a-fire-evacuation-plans-remain-untested

A recent attempt by the California state legislature to create a Rebuilding Authority to help coordinate the recovery and restoration of neighborhoods burned in the Eaton and Palisades fire was met with backlash. The language in the proposed bill was confusing, but, also, some of the information circulating about it wasn’t true, stoking the fear and anger of some residents. The bill, SB 549, has since been tabled, and it’s unclear what the next step is for this idea of a Rebuilding Authority. At the same time, concern over another building bill, now law, led local and state officials to quickly weaken its reach in the Pacific Palisades. Los Angeles Times reporter Liam Dillon covers housing and recently wrote about all of this. He joins host Kate Cagle to talk about what happened and how some of these misconceptions could affect the rebuilding process.

Unlike in previous fire disasters, FEMA did not test the soil in the Eaton and Palisades burn area after debris was cleared, raising questions about whether or not any harmful substances were left behind. Fires that burn that hot through a neighborhood can release a complex mix of chemicals into the air, like arsenic, chromium, mercury and lead, that can seep deep into the ground and into the walls and floors of buildings still standing. A reporting team from the Los Angeles Times decided to take it upon themselves to investigate and do their own testing of the soil around homes that had been cleared and those still in tact. Some of the results were alarming. Guests: Tony Briscoe, LA Times Environment Reporter, and Noah Haggerty, LA Times Science and Environment Reporter Megan Lorick, Malibu Resident A Sample of Tony and Noah’s Stories: Communities are rebuilding after L.A. fires despite lack of soil testing for toxic substances https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2025-03-27/rebuilding-without-soil-testing L.A. Times finds alarming levels of soil toxins in Altadena and Pacific Palisades https://www.latimes.com/00000196-7dad-d12e-afbe-fffd3f110000-123 Pressure is mounting for soil testing post-fire cleanup. The Newsom administration is downplaying the concerns https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2025-06-12/elected-officials-call-for-soil-testing-after-la-wildfires Nearly half of Pasadena Unified schools have contaminated soil, district finds https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2025-05-16/nearly-half-of-pasadena-unified-schools-have-contaminated-soil-district-finds

Nineteen people died during the Eaton Fire in January. All but one of them lived in neighborhoods west of Lake Avenue in Altadena. The 19th person lived just east of that border. It’s been reported that evacuation warnings were not issued in that neighborhood until early morning when the fire was already approaching people’s doorsteps. Now, a new investigation from the Los Angeles Times finds there was only one LA County Fire truck present at 3:08 AM as the flames swept into west Altadena. Reporter Rebecca Ellis looked into what happened and why. She joins host Kate Cagle to talk about it. Guests: Rebecca Ellis, LA Times Reporter Victoria Knapp, Altadena resident and Chair of the Altadena Town Council Rebecca’s story: A Times investigation: As west Altadena burned, L.A. County fire trucks stayed elsewhere: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-07-23/as-west-altadena-burned-county-fire-trucks-stayed-elsewhere

As the neighborhoods hit hardest by the Palisades and Eaton Fires rebuild, modern building codes will largely ensure that houses and other structures will be more resilient. But what else needs to be done across these communities to make sure the next disaster isn’t as devastating? How do we rebuild in a way that makes the neighborhoods whole again and also safer, stronger, and less vulnerable? Los Angeles County Supervisor Lindsey Horvath has some thoughts. Her district runs from Santa Monica to Sylmar and includes the Pacific Palisades, Malibu and nearby unincorporated areas like Sunset Mesa, which all together lost nearly 7,000 structures in the Palisades Fire. In conjunction with the University of California, Los Angeles, and a panel of area experts, Supervisor Horvath has put together the Blue Ribbon Commission on Climate Action and Fire Safe Recovery, which is full of proposals for updating the water infrastructure and alert systems in these fire prone areas, among other things, as well as creating a Rebuilding Authority to serve as a county-wide one-stop shop for guidance and resources on rebuilding. Supervisor Horvath joins host Kate Cagle to talk about the Commission and about the county response on January 7th and what’s being learned to ensure this level of devastation doesn’t occur again. We also hear from Allison Horldorff Polhill, a resident in the Pacific Palisades who lost her home on January 7. Guests: LA County Supervisor Lindsey Horvath Allison Horldorff Polhill, Pacific Palisades Resident and Senior Advisor and District Director at Los Angeles Unified School District Blue Ribbon Commission: https://lindseyhorvath.lacounty.gov/blue-ribbon-commission/ https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2025-05-07/expert-commission-los-angeles-fires Mayor Karen Bass Executive Order to Restrict SB 9 in the Pacific Palisades: https://mayor.lacity.gov/news/mayor-bass-issues-emergency-executive-order-prohibit-sb-9-applications-within-palisades-burn LA Times: After outcry, L.A. restricts duplexes in Pacific Palisades: https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2025-07-30/after-outcry-l-a-restricts-duplexes-in-pacific-palisades LA Times: Conspiracy theories thwart rebuilding plan after L.A. County wildfires https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2025-07-17/affordable-housing-palisades-authority-failure Santa Monica Daily Press: Ben Allen puts wildfire rebuilding bill on hold after mixed reaction in Assembly hearing https://smdp.com/government-politics-2/ben-allen-puts-wildfire-rebuilding-bill-on-hold-after-mixed-reaction-in-assembly-hearing/

Of the areas in Southern California most prone to catching fire, Malibu is probably number one. It was hit by two fires last winter – the Franklin Fire, which forced evacuations from Pepperdine University, and January’s Palisades Fire, which burned all the way to the water, affecting about one-third of the town’s 20 square miles. On top of that, many residents are still rebuilding after the Woolsey fire in 2018 so emotions still remain pretty raw nearly seven months after the Palisades fire. So where does Malibu go from here? Building in Malibu has its challenges with its hilly terrain and proximity to the Pacific. Can it rebuild in a sustainable way that preserves what’s left of Malibu’s bohemian past, keep out developers, and also better prepare the city for the next fire that will undoubtedly come? We hear from two LA locals, including long time LA Times reporter Jim Rainey, who lost their family homes. Plus we’ll talk to Yolanda Bundy, who is helping oversee fire recovery. Guests: LA Times reporter Jim Rainey Yolanda Bundy, Director, Malibu’s Community Development Department Wade Major, film critic for LAist’s Air Talk and resident of Malibu

On January 6th, the National Weather Service issued a dire warning of a life threatening storm — Santa Anas so extreme it would be sure to topple trees, knock down power lines, and spread any fire that started. But LA planned for this, right? Most climate scientists agree that a fire driven by hurricane force winds is impossible to fight, but some of LA’s emergency systems did break down in those first chaotic nights after the Palisades and Eaton fires started — and the finger pointing began almost immediately. A big source of residents' ire: an empty reservoir sitting above the Highlands in the Pacific Palisades. It’s hard to say whether it would have made a difference against the firefight had it been full of water. But the fact that it was empty raises the question of how prepared the city was for a disaster of this scale, and what’s being done to make sure we are ready for the next one. Guests: LA Times reporter Matt Hamilton Pacific Palisades resident Peggy Holter

Altadena has a “special sauce,” explains resident and architect Steve Lewis. This unincorporated area of Los Angeles County, nestled at the foot of the San Gabriel Mountains, is recognized for its small town feel, diversity and bohemian vibe. It’s long been a haven for Black Angelenos who were unable to buy property elsewhere in LA due to redlining practices in. Artists like Charles White moved there. So did novelist Octavia Butler. Not far from NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Altadena’s has been home to scientists and artists alike — nurses and teachers, too. It felt so perfect that some residents nicknamed it “Shangri-La.” That mix was also reflected in the architecture, and it’s for all these reasons that so many are moved to preserve it and bring back what is lost in the Eaton Fire. Guests: Steven Lewis, architect, consultant, Thinking Leadership, AIA, NOMA Jessica Orlando, architect, Perkins & Will, AIA Alex Athenson, president and cofounder, The Foothill Catalog Foundation Altadena resident Keni Arts

It’s clear that some residents in Altadena and the Pacific Palisades will not be able to afford the rebuilding process — the costs or the time it will take. And beyond those practical concerns, there’s a bigger question for those who decide to stay: what will all the displacement mean for the greater community? It’s a question reverberating pretty loudly throughout both the Palisades and Altadena, but this next episode looks specifically at the latter. Before the fires, home ownership in the area was pretty high at around 71 percent, but a lot of these homes were passed down through generations, and may not have been covered by insurance. That makes Altadena particularly vulnerable. California State Senator Sasha Renée Pérez oversees District 25, which includes Altadena, and joins us to talk about this, and how she fears the immigration raids in LA will impact the rebuilding process. Guests: California State Senator Sasha Renée Perez Altadena resident Yasmin Sotomayor