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Real Atheology
Justin Schieber, Ben Watkins, Ben Bavar, Ryan Downie
57 episodes
3 days ago
Real Atheology is a conversational podcast focusing on contemporary philosophy of religion from an atheist perspective which features discussions, interviews, and debates for philosophy of religion nerds of all metaphysical stripes.
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All content for Real Atheology is the property of Justin Schieber, Ben Watkins, Ben Bavar, Ryan Downie and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.
Real Atheology is a conversational podcast focusing on contemporary philosophy of religion from an atheist perspective which features discussions, interviews, and debates for philosophy of religion nerds of all metaphysical stripes.
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Philosophy
Society & Culture
Episodes (20/57)
Real Atheology
RA056: Marilyn McCord Adams and the Defeat of Evil

Before her death in 2017, Marilyn McCord Adams had a long and impressive career as a philosopher and theologian. While she had many interests both philosophical and theological, the problem of evil loomed ever-present in her thinking. I intend this video as an introduction to her views on the problem of evil; specifically on the notion of axiological defeat that features so heavily.


Adams, M. M., & Sutherland, S. (1989). Horrendous evils and the goodness of God. Proceedings of the Aristotelian Society, Supplementary Volumes, 63, 297-323.Adams, M. M. (2018). Horrendous evils and the goodness of God. Cornell University Press.


Adams, M. M. (1999). Horrendous evils and the goodness of God. Cornell University Press.


Adams, M. M. (2001). Afterward. In S. Davis (Ed.), Encountering Evil: Live options in theodicy (pp. 191-203). Louisville: Westminster John Knox.


Adams, M. M. (2006). Christ and horrors: The coherence of Christology (Vol. 4). Cambridge University Press.


Adams, M. M. (2013). Ignorance, instrumentality, compensation, and the problem of evil. Sophia, 52, 7-26.


Moore, G. E. (1903). Principia Ethica. Cambridge University Press.

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5 months ago
23 minutes 47 seconds

Real Atheology
RA055: Pete Mandik on Materialism, Quine, and Religious Mysticism

In this episode, Ben Watkins sits down with Professor Pete Mandik to discuss several different ways of conceiving of materialism along with strengths and weaknesses of each approach. Professor Mandik also gives a summary of a view inspire by Quine he calls “Type-Q Materialism.” Additionally, Ben and Professor Mandik discuss various aspects of religious mysticism and touch on the philosophy of Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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5 months ago
1 hour 55 minutes 47 seconds

Real Atheology
RA054: Why Evidence Isn't Everything | Intrinsic Probability

The intrinsic probability of a theory is the probability that a theory has purely in virtue of its intrinsic features. In this video, I give a brief overview of Paul Draper's theory of intrinsic probability according to which the intrinsic probability of a theory depends only on its modesty and coherence.

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5 months ago
11 minutes 26 seconds

Real Atheology
RA053: A Dialogue on Theodicy with Kyle Alander (Christian Idealism)

This episode is part interview and part dialogue between Justin Schieber and Christian YouTuber Kyle Alander about Kyle's preferred approach to the problem of evil. Alander adopts a defeat-based approach along the lines of Marilyn McCord Adams, Trent Dougherty, and John Schneider. In this almost four hour long episode, they discuss how defeat is understood in the dialectic surrounding the problem of evil. We also unpack Kyle’s preferred defeat-based theodicy before exploring at some length multiple objections to it in an effort to clarify details. However, one topic we avoid here is whether adding such rich detail to one’s core theory in response to the data of evil and suffering should come at some epistemic cost for the theist. That topic will hopefully be explored in future videos.


This episode is not only ridiculously long, it is also unique in its format. Rather than being a live recording, this is instead composed of video clips recorded with our cell phones in response to each other as time permitted - in most cases, this meant every other day. Those clips were then edited together into what you’re about to watch.


Because this is a complicated topic, the conversation does include some misinterpretation but ultimately I think you’ll see that it tends toward clarity and understanding.


Kyle's channel (Christian Idealism):

https://www.youtube.com/@christianidealism7868

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5 months ago
4 hours 29 seconds

Real Atheology
RA052: Objective Idealism and Presuppositionalist Apologetics

In this episode, Ben Watkins sits down to discuss the Van Tillian tradition of presuppositional apologetics often found online along with objective idealism— an epistemological view often associated with Post-Kantians like Hegel, Fichte, and Schelling. Two claims of Van Til are challenged using the resources of objective idealism:


Those two claims are (i) Christianity is a necessary condition to know anything at all and (ii) the Christian and the non-Christian have no neutral ground to resolve their disagreements.


In addition to challenging these claims by appeal to a form of objective idealism, Ben also gives a brief exposition of the argument from divine hiddenness. Contrary to Van Til and other presuppositional apologetics, it is not the case everyone believes God exists. In fact, there are some people who do not believe God exists, and this fact is evidence for atheism over theism.

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5 months ago
21 minutes 14 seconds

Real Atheology
RA051: Hume the Atheist? A Humean Case against Theism with Paul Russell

In this episode, Ben Watkins sits down with Professor Paul Russell to discuss David Hume, philosophy of religion, and Dialogues concerning Natural Religion.


Professor Russell is a leading Hume scholar and author of “The Riddle of Hume’s Treatise” which argues irreligion is central to understanding the naturalism and skepticism at the heart of Hume’s philosophy, specially, that expressed in his “A Treatise of Human Nature.” These irreligious themes culminate in Hume’s masterpiece: “Dialogues of concerning Natural Religion.”


Professor Russell walks us through different models of god, the argument for design, the argument from evil, and what has been called “Hume’s strange inversion” at the end of the Dialogues.


Paul Russell's Website:

https://sites.google.com/site/paulrussellubc/paul-russell


Philpapers:

https://philpeople.org/profiles/paul-russell


Hume’s Skepticism and the Problem of Atheism:

https://philarchive.org/archive/RUSHSA-4#:~:text=theist%20nor%20an%20atheist%20but,%2F%20186%E2%80%93%2087%3B%20cp.

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5 months ago
1 hour 21 minutes 8 seconds

Real Atheology
RA050: THIS is Why God Hides? (Part 8 of the Divine Hiddenness Series)

The Hiddenness Series returns. Richard Swinburne's responsibility argument aims to show it's good for God to stay hidden. That way we can investigate God's existence together. Assisting others in this endeavor, says Swinburne, is a very good deed—one we should be thankful to have the opportunity to do. In this video I discuss Swinburne's argument, Schellenberg's response, and Travis Dumsday's reformulation. I then share some of my own objections to the responsibility argument. Most importantly, I explain how it fails to undercut Schellenberg's hiddenness argument.

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5 months ago
13 minutes 56 seconds

Real Atheology
RA049: The End of Divine Hiddenness? (Part 7 of the Divine Hiddenness Series)

This video is a response to a recent video by Christopher Cloos at Christian Philosophy Academy.

Chris' Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja9dldyWQwE&t=1445s In his video, Cloos presents an objection to Schellenberg's divine hiddenness argument from a recent essay by Daniel Howard-Snyder which argues that, possibly, God may hide from people to attain a 'better start' to a relationship with them even while being perfectly loving. I first trace the dialectic between Daniel Howard-Snyder and J.L. Schellenberg before examining Howard-Snyder's most recent attempt to undermine Schellenberg's argument. I conclude that Howard-Snyder's most recent reply fails to undermine Schellenberg's argument. ⁠Web - https://www.realatheology.com⁠ Twitter - ⁠https://twitter.com/RealAtheology⁠

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1 year ago
26 minutes 26 seconds

Real Atheology
RA048: A Conversation on Divine Hiddenness with Gavin Ortlund (Part 6 of the Divine Hiddenness Series)

In this video, Justin Schieber joins Dr. Gavin Ortlund for a friendly conversation on Schellenberg's argument from Divine Hiddenness.

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1 year ago
1 hour 24 minutes 12 seconds

Real Atheology
RA047: Gavin Ortlund is Wrong about Divine Hiddenness (Part 5 of the Divine Hiddenness Series)

A few weeks ago, Gavin Ortlund of Truth Unites released a video exploring the argument from divine hiddenness and giving several objections to it. While I appreciated Gavin's wrestling with the argument, I did not think his objections are successful. This video seeks to respond to those objections by clarifying aspects of Schellenberg's reasoning.


Gavin Ortlund's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d-6UhOS0FE&t=2262s

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1 year ago
34 minutes 11 seconds

Real Atheology
RA046: The Case for Nonresistant Nonbelief (Part 4 of the Divine Hiddenness Series)

Welcome back to the Hiddenness Series. In the last episode, we looked at Schellenberg's concept of a nonresistant nonbeliever which plays a central role in his argument from Divine Hiddenness. To refresh, somebody is a nonresistant nonbeliever if they (1) fail to believe that God exists and (2) that failure is not the result of their resistance to God. We also looked at the concept of resistance at play here and we saw that it included a desire component in conjunction with actions or omissions driven by that desire. Certain desire/action/omission combinations, if expressed by a person could conceivably cause that person to fail to believe that God exists even though they did believe to begin with. Some form of Self-deception would have to be at play here. Schellenberg calls such persons resistant nonbelievers and, according to the Hiddenness argument, if a perfectly loving God exists, resisters are the only type of nonbeliever that could exist. However, Schellenberg claims resistant nonbelievers are not the only type of nonbelievers that exist. According to him, some nonbelievers are nonresistant. His argument requires this. But is he correct? Lets take a look.

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1 year ago
18 minutes 50 seconds

Real Atheology
RA045: What is a Nonresistant Nonbeliever, Really? (Part 3 of the Divine Hiddenness Series)

According to Schellenberg’s argument from Divine Hiddenness, a nonresistant nonbeliever is, simply put, somebody who fails to believe in God in such a way that the failure is not itself the result of resistant self-deception. A key premise of the divine hiddenness argument just is the claim that such persons exist and/or have existed in the past. For most people, this premise will appear obvious and this appearance likely the result of their connections and communications with other people. People they know and understand. People they trust and respect. On the other hand, some people claim to be skeptical about this premise. Can we really know that these nonbelievers aren’t resisting? To answer these questions, we’ve got to take a closer look at Schellenberg’s concept of the nonresistant nonbeliever.

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1 year ago
13 minutes 23 seconds

Real Atheology
RA044: The Argument from Divine Hiddenness (Part 2 of the Divine Hiddenness Series)

In this episode Justin Schieber continues the hiddenness series by presenting J.L. Schellenberg’s Argument from divine hiddenness. Since the 1993 publication of his Divine Hiddenness and Human Reason Schellenberg’s argument has received widespread attention and still generates deep engagement. This is because many atheists find it to be quite powerful and persuasive. Many theists find it challenging and worth responding to. This episode is intended as a presentation of Schellenberg’s argument, not a full-throated defense. https://www.realatheology.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/RealAtheology Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q...

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1 year ago
21 minutes 33 seconds

Real Atheology
RA043: The Varieties of Hidden Experience (Part 1 of the Divine Hiddenness Series)

Broadly speaking, Arguments from Hiddenness are philosophical arguments with atheistic conclusions arising from the fact that either the felt presence of, the nature of, or the very existence of God is somewhat less clear than we might expect if God existed. As with the problem of evil, there is no single argument from hiddenness. Rather, there is a whole family of arguments united by these ideas. We begin our new hiddenness series with a broad introduction to that family.

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1 year ago
23 minutes 14 seconds

Real Atheology
RA042: Kenny Pearce on Arguments and How to Have Them Productively

This is our second discussion with philosopher doctor Kenny Pearce. In this episode we pick up the conversation by discussing Pearce's thoughts on the practice of apologetics in contrast to philosophy. This led to a consideration of what arguments for or against God may need to be retired or deemphasized. In particular, Pearce explains why the moral argument isn't the most promising argument in the theist's bag. We end by discussing strategies for making dialogues in the philosophy of religion more productive, especially between theists and atheists.

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2 years ago
1 hour 42 minutes 12 seconds

Real Atheology
RA041: Joe Campbell on Hume's Refutation of the Cosmological Argument

In this episode Ben Watkins continues his series on Hume with a look at section IX of Hume's Dialogue's Concerning Natural Religion. Section IX finds Hume's Demea, Philo, and Cleanthes presenting and subjecting to analysis a cosmological argument for the existence of God. Ben and Dr. Joe Campbell discuss the argument as presented and the various criticisms that Hume brings to bear through his three characters. Dr. Joe Campbell's paper on Section IX of the Dialogues. https://www.jstor.org/stable/40026984

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2 years ago
1 hour 13 minutes 14 seconds

Real Atheology
RA040: Jeffrey Jay Lowder on Philosophy of Religion

In this episode, Justin Schieber sits down with Jeffrey Jay Lowder for a wide-ranging interview. Fans of the show will no doubt be familiar with Jeff's work. From founding Infidels.org and the Secular Outpost to his contributions to The Empty Tomb and his several public debates, Jeff has earned his reputation as a fair-minded and philosophically informed atheist. We discuss the origin of infidels.org, Paul Draper's famous argument from Pain and Pleasure and everything in between.

See Jeff's debate with Phil Hernandez

See Jeff's debate with Kevin Vandergriff

See Jeff's debate with Frank Turek

Jeff's youtube channel

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2 years ago
58 minutes

Real Atheology
RA039: Matthew Adelstein on Utilitarianism and Theism

In this episode, Ben Watkins sits down with Matthew Adelstein to discuss utilitarianism and theism. Utilitarianism, in its classical forms, claims that what we morally ought to do is act in ways that would maximize happiness and minimize suffering. This simple moral calculus is open to several important objections, but if true, has important consequences for theism as traditionally conceived. If God morally should create a world that maximizes happiness and minimize suffering, as would be the case if hedonistic act utilitarianism were true, then we are clearly not talking about the actual world. There could be much more happiness and much less suffering, therefore, there is no God as traditionally conceived in the actual world.


Matthew's blog: https://benthams.substack.com/

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2 years ago
42 minutes 50 seconds

Real Atheology
RA038: Debate: Schieber and Hernandez on the Existence of God.

This debate was between Christian apologist Eric Hernandez and atheist podcaster Justin Schieber. The event was organized by Capturing Christianity and held on May 6, 2023 at the Lanier Theological Library in Houston, TX. Visit capturingchristianity.com for this and similar events.

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2 years ago
2 hours 21 minutes 59 seconds

Real Atheology
RA037: Bill Vanderburgh on Misinterpretations of Hume’s Of Miracles

As a follow up to the last episode which gave a general overview of Hume's famous essay, Ben Watkins interviews philosopher Dr. Bill Vanderburgh on his 2019 book David Hume on Miracles, Evidence, and Probability. The conversation explores some of the reasons the text is often misinterpreted. The importance of placing Hume in his historical context is emphasized in response to common objections.


Get Dr. Vandenburgh's excellent book here: https://www.amazon.com/David-Hume-Miracles-Evidence-Probability-ebook/dp/B07PV79RRL/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3UDWN1IY3TMUE&keywords=vanderburgh+hume+miracles&qid=1682108975&sprefix=vanderburgh+hume+miracle%2Caps%2C341&sr=8-1

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2 years ago
36 minutes 3 seconds

Real Atheology
Real Atheology is a conversational podcast focusing on contemporary philosophy of religion from an atheist perspective which features discussions, interviews, and debates for philosophy of religion nerds of all metaphysical stripes.