It’s amazing and terrifying how one small sentence posted online at a particular moment in a particular context can spread like wildfire, and result in a book.
In this case, it was the sentence Jesus was non-violent, posted by Susy Flory on Facebook during the Covid-19 pandemic and the January 6 Insurrection that started the fire and led to a book.
In this conversation, I speak with Susy and Scott Johanningsmeir, editors of the recent published book Jesus Was: Not What We Expected But Better Than We Imagined where we not only get the origin story for the book, but we also reflect on how some of the most important things in life, including the Christian life, can be hidden in plain sight.
So whether you identify as a Christian or not, I encourage you to listen to this conversation. It might re-introduce you, or introduce you for the first time, to the revolutionary, and kind, Jesus. Who not only was, but is, and is to come.
Bios and Links
Susy Flory is a New York Times best-selling author or coauthor of eighteen books, directs West Coast Christian Writers, and is the founder of Everything Memoir with Susy Flory. Her book The Unbreakable Boy became a feature film in wide release in March, 2025. Susy earned a master’s degree in New Testament at Northern Seminary and is finishing up her doctoral studies on women writers in the ancient world, including the New Testament era. She lives in Northern California. Check out Susy’s Substack, and follow her on Facebook and Instagram.
Scott Johanningsmeier is a bivocational pastor at Elizabeth Baptist Church in Southern Indiana. He has a bachelor’s degree in music technology from Indiana University and a master’s degree in New Testament from Northern Seminary. Outside of ministry, he works in the technology installation industry. He and his wife have two daughters. Check out Scott’s Substack and follow him on Facebook and LinkedIn.
Oh, and pick up a copy of the Jesus Was: Not What We Expected But Better Than We Imagined book here.
As you’ll hear in this conversation, this episode started with a collegial back-and-forth about a footnote concerning punk rock. I was reviewing my friend Erv Klassen’s Doctor of Ministry project on hope, and he took an excellent side quest at the bottom of one of his pages to talk about the birth of punk rock.
Don’t you just love it when music fans get into hairsplitting conversations (i.e. arguments) about who started what and when and how they started it? I know I do. Well, sometimes. And then at other times, I don’t.
Either way, what I love about this footnote is that it started an offline conversation that started the podcast dialogue that you’re about hear—and maybe one day, it’ll result in a micro-course on theology and punk rock. We’ll see. But for the time being, my conversation with Erv is about punk rock, and what that has to do with hope and theology.
The funny thing is, Jacques Ellul wrote about punk rock (and disco) in his book Empire of Non-Sense. And here’s what he says in a footnote:
"These pages were written well before the appearance of punk and disco. But these movements are nothing more than the confirmation and continuation of the previous movement of insignificance congealed by the hypnotic effect of technique. The sounds, the shouts, the gesticulations, the frenzied outbursts, the throbbing, the fragmentation are in reality perfectly stereotyped and express a programmed type of music. The sounds that burst forth do not express any “emotion” in spite of what one says; they simply produce an instant of mind-altered happiness. One must not forget that after punk the emotionless style prevails. After the anarchy and spontaneity of punk comes, not with a tip of the scale but with the continuation of the same tendency, a frozen, rigid, and petrified style. It is not for nothing that one hears “Do the Mussolini,” a derive appeal to Fascism, and constant appeal to death, “I wish I could die…” What causes this completely depersonalized and neutralized ethos and a glorification of militarism?
So, clearly, Ellul wasn’t a fan—at least not of nihilistic synth-punk bands. Fair enough. But the question he asks “what causes this…?” can lead in all sorts of directions, and not all in the ways Ellul proposes here. There are other, more hopeful directions, that punks can take. And in this episode, Erv and I try to articulate what those other directions may be.
Bio
Erv Klassen is the Registrar and Assistant Academic Dean at Columbia Bible College in Abbotsford. He teaches in the areas of Spiritual Formation and Christian History. Erv is passionate about old books like medieval Christian devotional literature, and loves introducing these spiritual classics to others. He has worked at Columbia since 2008 following his work as a youth pastor and many summers working at summer camp. He loves playing modern board games, listening to rock and roll, reading Superman comics, flying kites, and birdwatching. He and his family live in Hope (figuratively and literally).
Links
Erv's Doctor of Ministry Project on Hope: https://actsseminaries.com/assets/main/klassen---hope-dmn-project-final-version-with-signatures.pdf
A Non-Comprehensive Punk Rock Playlist in No Specific Order
• Nuggets: Original Artyfacts from the First Psychedelic Era, 1965–1968
• The Clash - London Calling
• The Go-Gos - Beauty and the Beat • Greenday - American Idiot (2004)
• Iggy and the Stooges - Raw Power
• Patti Smith - Horses
• The Ramones - Ramones
• Talking Heads - 77
• The Clash - London Calling
• Sex Pistols - Never Mind the Bollocks
• The Jam - In the City
• Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
• New Order - Movement
• Black Flag - Damaged
• Minor Threat - First Two Seven Inches
• Fugazi - 13 Songs
• Bad Brains - Rock for Light
• Refused - Shape of Punk to Come
• At the Drive - Relationship of Command
• Blink-182 - Cheshire Cat
• Blink-182 - Dude Ranch
This is episode 36 of Personalist Manifesto(s), and to tell you the truth, I’m a bit surprised it has taken this long to feature a longform conversation about music.
Music has come up in other episodes, of course, but this is the first time I’ve done full-length talk about something so close to my heart.
Because of that, it makes total sense that I’d have my friend, Joshua Leventhal, a worship pastor, songwriter, and performer to talk all things music—including, what it’s like making a go at being a career musician when streaming and social media have totally changed the way music is made and shared in and industry that can be so wonderful, and so depressing, at the same time.
Oh, and another thing. Speaking of music, next week’s episode is also going to be about music. Punk rock, in fact. So stay tuned for that.
And so with that, here’s my conversation with Josh.
Bio
Joshua Leventhal is a songwriter and artist who makes music unto Jesus. His desire is to express full honesty in his lyricism without betraying reverence or hope. He wants to give people words for things they've always felt, but never had the words to express. Joshua is American-born but Canadian-raised; he is married to fellow creative Kaitlyn Rose, and they are based outside of Vancouver BC. He has won GMAs for both album of the year and song of the year, and was nominated for a Juno for Gospel Album of the Year.
Links
Music: joshualeventhal.com/releases
YouTube: youtube.com/@joshualeventhal
Tour: joshualeventhal.com/tour
Website: joshualeventhal.com
Additional Links
Redwall: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/series/DUI/redwall/
Ebert Reviews: https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews
Violence in the Old Testament Micro-Course: https://nbseminary.ca/academics/life-long-learning/violence-in-the-old-testament/
Political Theology Micro-Course: https://nbseminary.ca/academics/life-long-learning/christians-and-politics/
Karl Barth Theology Symposium: https://nbseminary.ca/theology-on-fire/
In this episode, Grace Ji-Sun Kim becomes the first ever returning guest on this show—and in this conversation, we talk about her new book Earthbound: God at the Intersection of Climate and Justice. Grace’s book offers a transformative vision of divine presence that calls us to active, restorative justice in a world crying out for restoration. Now, two things about this recording. First, it’s audio only (although you can watch a YouTube video with some nice looking audio waves if you want some nice visuals). Second, there might be a bit of background noise here and there. I had to record this conversation on the fly at a conference in between keynote talks Grace was giving and panels she was speaking on. In fact, right after this conversation ended, Grace had to run to panel session.Still, it feels right that this conversation is an unvarnished field recording. It has the spirit of The Spirit. You know, the one who is like the wind, blowing wherever, whenever and out of our control. So hopefully our this dialogue helps you hear the wind of the Spirit, and respond with care for the creation that the Spirit is breathing life into.BioGrace Ji-Sun Kim is Professor of Theology at Earlham School of Religion and the author/editor of 24 books, including Earthbound, Feminist Theologies: The Basics, When God Became White, Surviving God, Christianity in North America, Spirit Life, Invisible, Hope in Disarray, Keeping Hope Alive, Intersectional Theology, and Healing our Broken Humanity. She received her M.Div. from Knox College (University of Toronto) and her Ph.D. from the University of Toronto. She is also an ordained minister of word and sacrament within the Presbyterian (USA) denomination.LinksEarthbound (new book): https://orbisbooks.com/products/earthbound-god-at-the-intersection-of-climate-and-justiceFeminist Theologies: The Baisics (co-authored new book): https://www.routledge.com/Feminist-Theologies-The-Basics/Shaw-Ji-SunKim/p/book/9781032643908Website: https://gracejisunkim.wordpress.com/Substack: https://gracek.substack.com/Podcast: https://www.christiancentury.org/podcast/madang
The introduction to this episode was recorded at 11:17am, On September 15, 2025 Pacific Time. The conversation with politics columnist, commentator, and author David Moscrop in this episode was recorded at 11:00am Pacific time on August 29, 2025 Pacific Time.
I am sharing these dates and times with you so you get a sense of the timeline for, or the lead up to, David and I’s initial conversation, and what has happened between that dialogue and now.
I am, of course, referring to the murder of Charlie Kirk on September 10, 2025, and the apprehension of the murder suspect a few days ago.
If I am being totally honest with you, I was not and am not sure if it is right to mention this here.
On the one hand, I do not want to add to the noise or capitalize upon this tragedy, or any tragedy, in order to get attention.
On the other hand, to not mention anything seems to run against the grain of the Personalist Manifesto(s) project as a whole, and the topics discussed in this particular conversation—which, as it happens, I had planned to post when I am posting it before any of what I am referring to took place.
Strange, if not unnerving, how time, intention, and circumstance interact, isn’t it?
And how will they interact in the day to come?
I don’t know. I really, truly, don’t know.
But as a proponent of non-violent resistance to evil in any form it assumes, I want to clearly and public denounce violence here, within this context, and any other past, present, or future instance of violence that does and does not receive media attention.
So, my hope is that this conversation, and others like it on Personalist Manifesto(s), bear witness to these convictions. In so doing, I hope to offer both a critical and constructive account of how you, I, and anyone else listening or watching, can put our feet on the grass, and love our neighbour in local, immediate, and tangible ways.
Take care of yourself, okay?
And take care of your neighbour, whomever they are.
Peace be with you.
All of you.
Bio
David Moscrop is a politics columnist, commentator, and author of Too Dumb for Democracy? Why We Make Bad Political Decisions And How We Can Make Better Ones. His work has appeared in outlets including Globe and Mail, the Washington Post, the Walrus, Time Magazine, and the Guardian. He holds a PhD in political science from the University of British Columbia.
Links
David's Book: Too Dumb for Democracy? Why We Make Bad Political Decisions and How We Can Make Better Ones: https://gooselane.com/products/too-dumb-for-democracy
Substack: www.davidmoscrop.com
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/davidmoscrop.com
Twitter: @David_Moscrop
Additional Links
Jacques Ellul, Autopsy of Revolution: https://wipfandstock.com/9781606089774/autopsy-of-revolution/
Samuel Caramela, "Billionaires Are Building Luxury Bunkers to Escape Doomsday": https://www.vice.com/en/article/billionaires-are-building-luxury-bunkers-to-escape-doomsday/
Abby Livingston, "Ted Cruz says leaving Texas during winter disaster was "obviously a mistake" as he returns from Cancún": https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/18/ted-cruz-cancun-power-outage/
Interstellar clip on pioneers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Wltu5hfPU
Austin Powers clip on slow, avoidable death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PrZ-J7D3k
In this conversation, I speak with my friend, and sports super fan, Andrew Blaine.
Sports talk has come up here and there on this show—usually when I am lamenting the ongoing losses and heartbreaks that come with being a Vancouver Canucks fan—but this is the first episode where sport is spoken about at length.
What you may come to see as the conversation progresses, however, is that sports for Andrew are about more than sports. Sports are about community, relationship, and… a God who meets us, and changes us, in and through communities and relationships—within churches, yes, but also beyond churches too.
And so with that, here’s my conversation with Andrew.
Bio
Andrew Blaine is a sports super fan who loves Jesus and has a passion for community.
Links
Instagram: @_andrewblaine0441
Trinity Western Spartans: https://gospartans.ca/
In this episode, I speak to someone by the name of Jonathan Lyonhart.
Jonathan is a theologian, philosopher, author, and ordained minister. He emailed me a while back, letting me know he’s listened to this show, and he thought I might be interested in reading his new book The Journey of God: Christianity in Six Movements.
I responded to Jonathan’s email, saying something like, “Of course. Send me your book. Let’s do this.”
And we are here, Jonathan and I talking about stories, theology, philosophy, and a lot of other things—including inside baseball talk about living in Vancouver (the Canadian one, not the American one).
Side note: if you have a book you think I should read, email me (michaelmorelli@nbseminary.ca). Chances are I’ll want to read it.
Bio
Jonathan Lyonhart (PhD, Cambridge) is a British-Canadian theologian, philosopher, author, and ordained minister. He is an Associate Professor of Religion and Philosophy at the University of Jamestown, a Fellow at the Cambridge Center for the Study of Platonism at Cambridge University, and a co-host of the Spiritually Incorrect Podcast. Additionally, he co-founded The NumiNous Institute for Faith and Neurodiversity with his wife, who is a doctoral candidate in History at Oxford University.
Links
The Journey of God (authored Book)
Space God (authored book)
Monothreeism (authored book)
NumiNous Institute for Faith and Neurodiversity
Additional Links
In this episode, we’re finishing the four-part seminar series on disability and the church I’ve been sharing with you over the course of the last few weeks. So, be sure to check out the other three sessions before you jump into this one if you haven’t already. Or, start here and work your way backwards if you want. It’s up to you, really. You’re your own person. I can’t make you do anything you don’t want to do, right?
Session One - Disability Language and Rhetoric with Krista Ewert: https://youtu.be/5fUtwkY2nvU
Session Two - What is a Human? with Michael Morelli: https://youtu.be/Rr67U8XpbeY
Session Three - Mutualistic Ministry with Greg Harris: https://youtu.be/OQM6W9wmCPU
In this seminar, we’re hearing from my friend Kathy Dubbledam—the director of YoungLife Capernaum in Canada.
Now, you may have heard of YoungLife (who hasn’t?). But have you heard of YoungLife Capernaum? It’s all about relationships; relationships that start with meeting teens with disabilities where they’re at, caring for them and sharing the Christian faith in simple and understandable terms… all with no strings attached. [They] want to make sure that every teen involved in Young Life Capernaum knows they are invited, celebrated, and needed.
And since Kathy is the director of this YoungLife ministry, she has so much wisdom to share about what it looks like to create communities where everyone truly belongs, and truly shares the gifts they have received from God.
Bio
Kathy Dubbeldam is the Capernaum Ministry Director for Young Life of Canada and has been serving with Young Life for 25 years. Young Life is a global faith-based youth mentorship program, and Kathy leads the Capernaum branch, ensuring that friends with disabilities are welcomed and included. She introduced Capernaum to Canada in 2014, starting in Edmonton, and has since helped expand it to 12 cities across three provinces. Over the past eight years, she has established Capernaum-specific clubs, trained staff in inclusive practices, and advised church pastors on creating welcoming spaces for individuals with disabilities. She is also developing accessible devotionals to support faith growth for all abilities.
These seminars were the result of a collaborative effort between The Lazarus Centre, Northwest College and Seminary, Fellowship Pacific, YoungLife Capernaum, and this show.
Links
YoungLife Capernaum: https://capernaum.younglife.ca/
Instagram: @younglifecapernaumcanada
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ylcapernaumeverywhere
The Lazarus Centre: www.thelazaruscentre/org
Northwest College & Seminary: www.nbseminary.ca
Fellowship Pacific: https://fellowshippacific.ca/
In this episode, we’re continuing on in the disability and the church seminar series—the third of four sessions. If you haven’t caught the first two sessions, be sure to check them out before you get into this one.In this seminar, my friend Greg Harris presents on disability and discipleship.
Session One - Disability Language and Rhetoric with Krista Ewert: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/disability-and-the-church-seminar-part-one-before/id1779392257?i=1000720849933
Session Two - What is a Human? with Michael Morelli: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/disability-and-the-church-part-two-what-is-a/id1779392257?i=1000721876026
Not only is Greg a pastor, he’s also working on a doctorate that focuses on this topic.He’s exploring the question: what if the church was a place where everybody was truly considered capable of being a disciple and discipling other people? What would that community look like? What would it to do to make it that kind of community?
As Greg poses these questions, he provides a number of opportunities for us to reflect one where we—where you are at—and ask: how is my church, my community doing in this area? Could we be doing better? And if so, what does better look like in this context?
These seminars were the result of a collaborative effort between The Lazarus Centre, Northwest College and Seminary, and Fellowship Pacific.
Bio
Greg Harris has served in pastoral ministry since 2010, and has been on the pastoral team at SouthRidge Fellowship since Fall 2022. He believes the church should be a place of mutuality, and he desires to see each disciple of Jesus—regardless of their dis/abilities—mature in Christlikeness.
Greg received a Dip. in Biblical Studies and a B.A. in Worship Arts from Columbia Bible College; an MDiv from Northwest Baptist Seminary, and is a Doctoral candidate in Practical Theology at McMaster Divinity College (with a research focus on the intersection of dis/ability and discipleship in the local church).
Links
My Disabled Son is the Image of God: https://www.christianitytoday.com/2024/03/1p36-down-syndrome-theology-disability-child-image-of-god/
Instagram: @gregharris7
SouthRidge Church: https://southridgefellowship.ca/accessibility-and-inclusion/
Additional Links
The Lazarus Centre: www.thelazaruscentre.org
Northwest College & Seminary: www.nbseminary.ca
Fellowship Pacific: https://fellowshippacific.ca/
This is the second of a four-part seminar series on disability and the church. It explores what it means to be human, specifically from the perspective of the Bible, theology, and what most people call disability.These seminars were the result of a collaborative effort between The Lazarus Centre, Northwest Seminary and College, and Fellowship Pacific, and this show.If you haven't listened to the first seminar exploring the history of disability language and rhetoric, check it out here: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/disability-and-the-church-seminar-part-one-before/id1779392257?i=1000720849933
Bio
Michael is Associate Professor of Theology & Ethics and Program Manager, Life-Long Learning at Northwest College & Seminary. He holds a PhD in Theological Ethics from the University of Aberdeen, Scotland and is the author of Theology, Ethics, and Technology in the Work of Jacques Ellul and Paul Virilio: A Nascent Theological Tradition (Lexington Books) and editor of Desert, Wilderness, Wasteland, and World: A New Essay By Jacques Ellul and Five Critical Engagements (Pickwick). He publishes and presents on a variety of topics within the fields of theology, morality, culture, politics, technology, and disability. He has also worked in local church ministry and continues to serve the church in a lay capacity.
Links
Substack: https://personalistmanifestos.substack.com/
Instagram: mchlmorelli
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mchlmorelli.bsky.social
The Lazarus Centre: www.thelazaruscentre.org
Northwest College and Seminary: www.nbseminary.ca
Fellowship Pacific: https://fellowshippacific.ca/
Additional Resources
Vincent Lloyd, Black Natural Law: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/black-natural-law-9780199362189
Brian Brock and John Swinton (eds.), Disability in the Christian Tradition: A Reader: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802866028/disability-in-the-christian-tradition/
This is the first of a four-part seminar on disability and the church. These seminars were the result of a collaborative effort between The Lazarus Centre, Northwest College and Seminary, Fellowship Pacific, and this show—all groups I am a part of in one way or another.I am sharing these seminars with you because I do not want the discussions of disability we have on Personalist Manifesto(s) to just be theoretical. I want to them to lead to real, practical action.In the first seminar, my friend and colleague Krista Ewert presents on disability language and rhetoric, because, as you will see, this is a critical place to start when thinking about disability.BioKrista is storyteller and leader: a multi-hyphenate who thrives on creating and curating all things deeply connecting. Krista grew up attending South Delta Baptist Church and has worked in various churches in different ministry capacities. She was the Communications lead for the National Ministry Team at the Church of England, where she had the opportunity to work with the National Advisor for Disability and the Diocesan Disability Advisors. She has also worked as a Marketing leader at Alpha Canada and World Vision. She has a degree in theology from Prairie Bible College and a Master’s degree in Interdisciplinary Humanities focusing on Disability Language and Rhetoric. Krista is married to Ben, who is the Director of Choral Activities at TWU and Director of Music at St. John’s Vancouver Church where she attends with her three children, Jakob (17), Ella (15), who was born with Down syndrome, and Audrey (10).LinksKrista's Substack: https://kristaewert.substack.com/The Lazarus Centre: www.thelazaruscentre.orgNorthwest College & Seminary: www.nbseminary.caFellowship Pacific: https://fellowshippacific.ca/
Initially, my childhood friend Jeff Wheeldon thought he was going to be a pastor. Then, he thought he was going to be a theology professor. But then, he ended up in politics. Some of you may be excited to hear I’m interviewing a Christian who happens to be in politics. Some of you might get a little skittish. If you’re in the latter category, stick with us. I think you’ll find that Jeff is breaking the mold in terms of what it means to be a Christian in politics. We talk about theology, politics, political theology, and… swans. Note: Because Personalist Manifesto(s) strives to be non-partisan, it is important to mention that this conversation is not a political ad or endorsement. It’s simply one friend speaking to another about the above topics.
Bio
Jeff Wheeldon loves his family, playing tabletop games with his friends and kids, and managing complex systems to make a better world. He paints miniatures, is working on his first novel, and serves as a municipal councillor in Brighton, Ontario. He's a big fan of Jesus, and is learning to love himself and everyone else too.
Links
Jeff's blog: https://jeffwheeldon.ca/blog/
Jeff's publications: https://sociologyandchristianity.org/index.php/jsc/article/view/281
Additional Resources
Astra Taylor, Massey Lectures / The Age of Insecurity: https://www.cbc.ca/radiointeractives/ideas/2023-cbc-massey-lectures-astra-taylor
Marva Dawn, Powers, Weakness, and the Tabernacling of God: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802847706/powers-weakness-and-the-tabernacling-of-god/
Walter Wink, The Powers Trilogy: https://www.goodreads.com/series/55665-powers
Greg Boyd, Satan and the Problem of Evil: https://reknew.org/book/satan-the-problem-of-evil-constructing-a-trinitarian-warfare-theodicy/
Donella Meadows, Thinking in Systems: https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/thinking-in-systems/
Michael Banner, Ethics of Everyday Life: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/ethics-of-everyday-life-9780198722069?cc=ca&lang=en&
Club of Rome, Limits to Growth: https://www.clubofrome.org/publication/the-limits-to-growth/
Jacques Ellul, Theology and Technique: https://wipfandstock.com/9781725259775/theology-and-technique/
Jonathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/73535/the-righteous-mind-by-jonathan-haidt/
E.F. Schumacher, Small is Beautiful: https://www.amazon.ca/Small-Beautiful-Economics-People-Mattered/dp/0099225611
*trigger warning* / *take care of yourself*Karen O'Donnell has written a lot on theology, feminism, trauma, and so much more. We got together to talk about her latest book, Survival: Radical Spiritual Practices for Trauma Survivors.
If you're journeying with trauma, or journeying with people who are, I hope this conversation helps you in that journey.BioDr Karen O'Donnell is a theologian with particular interests in the ways in which bodies intersect with theologies. This has led to work in trauma and feminist theologies with an emphasis on women's bodies. Her most recent publications include a co-edited volume Pregnancy and Birth: Critical Theological Conceptions (SCM Press, 2024) and Survival: Radical Spiritual Practices for Trauma Survivors (SCM Press, 2024). Karen is Academic Dean at Westcott House, Cambridge and Associate Lecturer in Gender and Theology in the Divinity Faculty, Cambridge University, UK. LinksPersonalBluesky: @karenod.bsky.socialInstagram: @karabelle82Website (including publications): karenodonnell.org.ukFeminist Theology NetworkBluesky: @feministtheology.bsky.socialInstagram: @feministtheologynetwork Sign up: https://mailchi.mp/a5e743737064/feminist-theology-networkAdditional Links• Serene Jones, 'Trauma and Grace': https://www.wjkbooks.com/bookproduct/0664264778-trauma-and-grace-second-edition/• Judith Herman, 'Trauma and Recovery': https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/judith-lewis-herman-md/trauma-and-recovery/9780465098736/?lens=basic-books• Judith Herman, 'Truth and Repair': https://www.akpress.org/truth-and-repair.html• Bessel Van Der Kolk, 'The Body Keeps the Score': https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-score• Sam Fender, 'People Watching': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cXCUp6j5M8• 'The Piano' (movie trailer): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61ooIf1QDZo• 'The Heart asks Pleasure First': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCJB9mIlFBs&list=RDTCJB9mIlFBs&start_radio=1• 'Moonlight Sonata': www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tr0otuiQuU&list=RD4Tr0otuiQuU&start_radio=1• 'Armageddon' (movie trailer): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-8eEniEfgU• 'We're all living in the upside down': https://www.salon.com/2016/09/01/were-all-living-in-the-upside-down-stranger-things-is-a-show-about-the-internets-dark-sides/
Conspiracy. Conspiracy theories. Fake news. Fake media. Disinformation. Misinformation. Propaganda.
Such words, and words like them, have entered the mainstream, and it’s becoming increasingly difficult for the average person to navigate the choppy waters of on and offline truth and lies. How did we get here, sensible people are asking?
And what do we do about it, is their follow-up question.
Enter Jared Stacy, who’s written an immensely helpful and apocalyptic doctoral thesis (which is becoming a book) on conspiracy theories, theological paranoia, and North American evangelicalism.
Now, having just said that, I am aware that you either got very interested or very disinterested in what’s ahead. If you’re in the former category, excellent. Jared’s got some great wisdom to share with us. If you’re in the latter category, please give this conversation a chance before you walk away.
I hope—maybe even promise?—that we don’t get overly judgy or technical.
In fact, as Ellul wrote in his prescient book Propaganda, “I insist that to give [the warnings I do in my work] is an act in the defence of [people], that I am not judging propaganda with Olympian detachment, and that having suffered, felt, and analyzed the impact of the power of propaganda on myself, having been time and again, and still being, the object of propaganda, I want to speak of it as a menace which threatens the total personality."
Jared and I attempt to speak from a similar place of self-awareness. Nobody, not even you, me, or Jared are immune to the causes and effects of propaganda, conspiracy theories, fake news, paranoia, and so on. And the moment we think we are, that is when we are most at risk.
So please, listen, and reflect, with care.
Bio
Jared Stacy (PhD, Uni of Aberdeen) is a theologian and chaplain. He is the author of an upcoming book with Harper Collins on American evangelicalism and conspiracy theory. His research focuses on theological resistance to political extremisms and conspiracism. He lives in Tampa Bay.
Links
"The theological paranoia driving conspiracy theory among Christians" (article)
Additional Resources
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, After Ten Years
Howard Thurman, The Fascist Masquerade
Jacques Ellul, Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes
Kristen Kobes Du Mez, Jesus and John Wayne
Cal Newport, Digitial Minimalism
Jeffrey Bilbro, Reading the Times: A Literary and Theological Inquiry into the News
Jon Coutts is a polymath theologian. He's written and presented on Karl Barth, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the church, film, and a whole lot more. So when Jon emailed me to ask if I'd be interested in reading some work he did on artificial intelligence (AI), my response was of course! and, we should have a conversation about this.
Here is that conversation.
Bio
Jon Coutts is theologian in western Canada with a forthcoming book on Dietrich Bonhoeffer's ethics. He has been a professor in England and in Canada.
Links
Jon’s books and articles can be found at thissideofsunday.blogspot.com
Additional Resources
Willie James Jennings, Acts: A Theological Commentary
Gustavo Gutiérrez, Concilium 171: Different Theologies, Common Responsibilities: Babel or Pentecost?
Vincent Lloyd, Black Natural Law
Ryan Turnbull is a Canadian theologian, and I’m a Canadian theologian, so we talk about a lot of Canadian stuff in this episode. But you don’t have to be Canadian to engage in or get something out of this conversation. Because what we talk about functions like a case study of what it looks like to be a theologian who lives in a particular place and is thinking critically and constructively (theologically) about that place. So hopefully Ryan and I’s conversation helps you do that—in your own place, wherever that happens to be.
Ryan is not only a great scholarly thinker, he actually cares about the places he finds himself in and the people who are there. And, in the spirit of Personalism, it captures one of the core sayings of Ellul, Charbonneau, and others, which was: think locally, act globally. So I hope this conversation helps you do that.
Bio
Ryan holds a BA and MA in Theology from Providence University College and Theological Seminary and just completed the defence of his PhD in Theology and Religion in December 2023, at the University of Birmingham, entitled “Haunted and Held: A Christian Theology of Place.” Ryan is currently a Visiting Fellow at St John’s College and serves as the Diocesan Discipleship Developer in the Diocese of Rupert’s Land. In addition to his day job with the diocese, Ryan serves on the executive of the Canadian Theological Society and teaches theology as an adjunct instructor at a number of universities and seminaries across Canada.
Links
Additional Resources
Val Plumwood, Shadow Places and The Politics of Dwelling
Paul Virilio, Bunker Archaeology
Stanley Hauerwas, Prayers Plainly Spoken
Elaine Enns and Ched Myers, Healing Haunted Histories
Doreen Massey, A Global Sense of Place
Shelly Rambo, Resurrecting Wounds
The Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada
Canada’s Residential Schools: Missing Children and Unmarked Burials
This is a recording of a recent presentation I gave titled "Creative Processes in a World with Artificial Intelligence (AI), or Why and How God Uses The Work of Artists." Normally, Personalist Manifesto(s) features dialogues throughout, but this one is a little bit different. It starts with a presentation and ends with a Q&A dialogue. Because I only had one mic, and the mic was my phone, the audio quality isn’t great and the questions are quiet. But I did what I could to boost the sound and clean it up so you can hear everything.
This presentation is delivered and this dialogue is engaged with Ellul’s work on art and technology looming in the background. Ellul teaches artists to be attentive to the world around them, and to be careful about the techniques and processes they do and don’t engage to represent that world. So, in a world with AI, where technologies are producing ‘art’ for us, we would do well to listen to Ellul.
And so with that, here is a presentation and dialogue inspired by some of my learnings from Ellul and others in this fraught and wondrous terrain of art and technology.
Bio
Michael Morelli is the Associate Professor of Theology & Ethics at Northwest College & Seminary and ACTS Seminaries. Both are affiliates of Trinity Western University. He’s also an adjunct professor of theology of at Trinity’s Religious Studies and Nursing Schools.
He has a PhD in Theological Ethics from the University of Aberdeen, Scotland and is the author of Theology, Ethics, and Technology in the Work of Jacques Ellul and Paul Virilio: A Nascent Theological Tradition (Lexington Books) and editor of Desert, Wilderness, Wasteland, and Word: A New Essay By Jacques Ellul and Five Critical Engagements (Pickwick).
Links
Theology Beer Camp 2025: https://www.theologybeercamp2025.com
Michael Morelli, Theology, Ethics, and Technology in the Work of Jacques Ellul and Paul Virilio: https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/theology-ethics-and-technology-in-the-work-of-jacques-ellul-and-paul-virilio-9781793625434/
T.S. Eliot, The Wasteland: Facsimile Edition: https://www.amazon.ca/Waste-Land-Facsimile-Transcript-Annotations/dp/0156948702
Gustav Janouch, Conversations with Kafka: https://www.ndbooks.com/book/conversations-with-kafka/
Madeline L’Engle, Walking on Water: https://www.madeleinelengle.com/books/non-fiction/walking-on-water-reflections-on-faith-and-art/
James H. Cone, The Spirituals and The Blues: https://en.novalis.ca/products/the-spirituals-and-the-blues
David Lynch, Catching the Big Fish: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.ca/books/546656/catching-the-big-fish-by-david-lynch/9780143130147
Jacques Ellul, Empire of Non-Sense: Art in the Technological Society: https://papadakis.net/books/the-empire-of-non-sense/
When I started Personalist Manifesto(s), everyone told me I needed to talk to two people: Daniel Cérézuelle and Christian Roy. I agreed with their suggestions. I spoke to Daniel in the first ever Personalist Manifesto(s) conversation, so you can check that out through the link below if you haven’t already. In this conversation, I speak with Christian. His research focuses not only on Personalism, but the expressions of it represented by Jacques Ellul, Bernard Charbonneau, and their colleagues and friends. We have a freewheeling conversation, not just about the history of Personalism, but its spirit and its relevance for today.
Bio
Based in Montreal, Christian Roy (Ph.D. McGill 1993) is a cultural historian, an art critic, a film scholar, and a multilingual translator, e.g., from German of Carl Schmitt and Paul Tillich and into English of Jacques Ellul (Theology and Technique, Wipf & Stock, 2024) and Bernard Charbonneau (The Green Light: A Self-Critique of the Ecological Movement, Bloomsbury 2018 and Mediatized Society in instalments). Roy’s independent research focuses on lesser-known strands of the Personalist intellectual tradition (such as the Ordre Nouveau group, the Bordeaux School, etc.), to dig up their roots in interwar Europe.
Links
Academia: roychristian.academia.edu
Patreon: patreon/christianroymedia
Additional Resources
Bernard Charbonneau, "La société médiatisée": https://www.amazon.ca/-/fr/soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-m%C3%A9diatis%C3%A9e-Bernard-Charbonneau/dp/B09FS2VBYL
Bernard Charbonneau, "The Green Light: A Self-Critique of the Ecological Movement": https://www.bloomsbury.com/ca/green-light-9781350027091/
Frances Stonor Saunders, "The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and The World of Arts and Letters": https://www.amazon.ca/Cultural-Cold-War-World-Letters/dp/1565846648
What is Personalism? A Conversation with Danielle Cérézuelle: https://personalistmanifestos.substack.com/p/what-is-personalism-a-conversation-1d7
The origin story of this dialogue is a bit of a complex one. It started when a directed study I am doing with a master’s student named Ruby collided—in the best way possible—with an online exchange I had with scholar Lisa Powell. This was brought about by the recent conversation I had with Daniel Rempel about Barth, witness, and intellectual disability (link below if you haven't seen it yet).
When Daniel posted our conversation on his social media account, Lisa commented on it, and I said “Hey, Lisa, I’m currently reading your book for a directed study with a master’s student right now. We should talk!” And Lisa said sure. And then I suggested to Ruby that she join the conversation for extra credit if she felt up to it.
So here we are. Lisa, Ruby, and I talk about Lisa’s latest book 'The Disabled God Revisited.' We talk about how theologies like the kind Lisa is engaged with and doing help us to discover just how big, unsettling, and wonderful the Triune God revealed in scripture is—and, how this Triune God is constantly encouraging, and sometimes challenging us, to reframe what we mean when we say the word human.
So, as much as a scholar like Jacques Ellul teaches us to be wary of modern technologies and media, a story like this goes to show that neither are all bad all the way down—as long as we don’t use the good examples of their uses and effects to justify ignoring, perpetuating, and/or benefiting from the bad.
Bio
Lisa Powell is Professor of Theology at St. Ambrose University in Davenport, Iowa, where she is also the director of the Justice, Diversity, and Gender Studies Program. She's published two books, including The Disabled God Revisited and articles in a variety of academic journals including The Journal for Feminist Studies in Religion, which awarded her the Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza New Scholar Award for her research on Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz as a 17th Century theologian. Her area of teaching and research focus on systematic theology from liberative perspectives.
Links
Bluesky: @lisapowell.bluesky.social
X (formerly Twitter): @lisadawnpowell
The Disabled God Revisited (authored book): https://www.bloomsbury.com/ca/disabled-god-revisited-9780567694355/
Inconclusive Theologies: Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz, Kierkegaard, and Theological Discourse (authored book): https://www.mupress.org/Inconclusive-Theologies-Sor-Juana-Ines-de-la-Cruz-Kierkegaard-and-Theological-Discourse-P804.aspx
“Disabled God at 30 Years: Legacy and Promise” (lecture): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFBe_SZH38Q
Additional Resources
Bruce McCormack, “Grace and Being: The Role of God’s Gracious Election in Karl Barth’s Theological Ontology,” in The Cambridge Companion to Karl Barth, ed. John Webster (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2000), 92-110:https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/cambridge-companion-to-karl-barth/grace-and-being/8B5E8A8677B55B4F6075FFDDF8AD97F8
James H. Cone, God of the Oppressed: https://en.novalis.ca/products/god-of-the-oppressed
Delores William, Sisters in the Wilderness: https://en.novalis.ca/products/sisters-in-the-wilderness-20th-anniversary-edition
Faye Bodley-Dangelo, Sexual Difference, Gender, and Agency in Karl Barth's Church Dogmatics: https://www.bloomsbury.com/ca/sexual-difference-gender-and-agency-in-karl-barths-church-dogmatics-9780567679321/
Wati Longchar, “Dancing with the Land: Significance of Land for Doing Tribal Theology,”: https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/ijt/38-2_016.pdf
Disability, Witness, and Christian Life - A Conversation with Daniel Rempel: https://personalistmanifestos.substack.com/p/witness-disability-and-the-christian
The other day, my colleague Joel Korytko started talking about Genesis, Cain, and the city. Right away, I asked him: Have you read Jacques Ellul's Meaning of the City? Joel hadn't read it, so I sent him some sections. After that, we decided it made sense to start talking about it and hit record. What resulted was a three-part conversation on Genesis, Civilization & The City.
This is the third part.
The first part is here: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/personalist-manifesto-s-podcast/id1779392257
The second part is here: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/personalist-manifesto-s-podcast/id1779392257?i=1000705472315
Bios
Joel Korytko is Assistant Professor of Biblical Studies at Northwest College & Seminary. He holds a PhD in Oriental Studies (Septuagint) from University of Oxford, England. He is the author of numerous publications, including the monograph Death of the Covenant Code: Capital Punishment in Old Greek Exodus in light of Greco-Roman Egyptian Law (Brill).
Michael Morelli is Associate Professor of Theology & Ethics at Northwest College & Seminary. He Holds a PhD in Theological Ethics from University of Aberdeen, Scotland. He is the author of Theology, Ethics & Technology in the Work of Jacques Ellul and Paul Virilio (Lexington), and editor of Desert, Wilderness, Wasteland, and Word: A New Essay by Jacques Ellul and Five Critical Engagements (Pickwick).
Resources
Ellul
The Meaning of The City: https://wipfandstock.com/9781606089736/the-meaning-of-the-city/
Judgment of Jonah: https://wipfandstock.com/search-results/?keyword=judgment+of+jonah
Apocalypse: https://wipfandstock.com/9781532684456/apocalypse/
New Demons: http://www.newhumanityinstitute.org/pdf-articles/Jacques_Ellul-New-Demons.pdf
“Technique and the Opening Chapters of Genesis,” from Theology and Technique: https://www.jesusradicals.com/uploads/2/6/3/8/26388433/technique-and-the-opening-chapters-of-genesis.pdf
Joel
Death of the Covenant Code: Capital Punishment in Old Greek Exodus in light of Greco-Roman Egyptian Law: https://brill.com/display/title/68955?language=en
“Correcting Cosmic Skeptic”: youtube.com/watch?v=zYKkktZKrCs
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JoelKorytko
Twitter: @JoelFKorytko
Michael
Theology, Ethics & Technology in the Work of Jacques Ellul and Paul Virilio: https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781793625441/Theology-Ethics-and-Technology-in-the-Work-of-Jacques-Ellul-and-Paul-Virilio-A-Nascent-Theological-Tradition
“What’s in a Name? Jacques Ellul’s Reading of Naming in Genesis 1-3,” from Jacques Ellul and The Bible: Towards a Hermeneutic of Freedom: https://wipfandstock.com/9781725267855/jacques-ellul-and-the-bible/
Desert, Wilderness, Wasteland, and Word: A New Essay by Jacques Ellul and Five Critical Engagements: https://wipfandstock.com/9781666742534/desert-wilderness-wasteland-and-word/n
BlueSky: @mchlmorelli.bsky.social
Instagram: @mchlmorelli