There’s an Igbo saying, quoted by Chinua Achebe, that goes like this: ‘A man who does not know where the rain began to beat him cannot say where he dried his body.’ It’s a fitting way to end Season 1 of the Our Long Walk podcast, a season shaped by the question: what can Africa’s history teach us about its present, and its possible futures?
In the final episode of this season, hosts Johan Fourie and Jonathan Schoots take a moment to reflect on the season. They talk about long arcs and short turns. About the origins of states, of elite contestation, of trade, urbanisation, industrialisation. About the weight of colonial legacies and the promise of post-colonial reinvention. From 100,000 years of human prehistory to today’s aid policies and trade wars, this season’s guests have shown us how deeply the past shapes the terrain on which African societies move.
The Our Long Walk podcast will be back in August with Season 2: new guests, new questions, same stubborn curiosity. But we would love your help shaping it. Send your suggestions, ideas, or complaints to johan@ourlongwalk.com.
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This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
What if history is not only what we are told, but also what we choose to remember? What if the stories of apartheid are not just tales of villainy and victimhood, but of complexity, contradiction and human agency? And what if loving a country – its landscapes, its memories – requires that we also confront its darkest truths?
In this final interview of the first season of Our Long Walk, Jonathan Schoots and Johan Fourie sit down with Jacob Dlamini, Associate Professor of History at Princeton University, field guide, journalist, and one of South Africa’s most original historical thinkers
Dlamini’s idea of critical love runs through the episode. Loving the Kruger, loving South Africa, while refusing to romanticise or forget. To hold on to splendour without letting go of truth. To honour beauty without denying complicity. That is the work of history.
Some of Jacob’s mentioned work:
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
For more information about the episode and to subscribe to Johan’s newsletter, visit ourlongwalk.com.
To send in questions or comments, send a voice note to johan@ourlongwalk.com.
How should we understand the era before Africa’s colonisation? Was it a period of stagnation or one of profound innovation and change? Why has the ‘Scramble for Africa’ dominated historical narratives, often overshadowing Africa’s own dynamic histories? Can warfare be understood not only as destructive but also as a creative and even culturally significant force?
In this episode of the Our Long Walk podcast, Jonathan Schoots and Johan Fourie explore these critical questions with Richard Reid, Professor of African History at Oxford University and author of the recently published book, The African Revolution: A History of the Long Nineteenth Century.
Some of Richard’s mentioned work:
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
For more information about the episode and to subscribe to Johan’s newsletter, visit ourlongwalk.com.
What determines opportunity in Africa? Does religion shape upward mobility? How do artificial borders, landmines, and weak states constrain economic development? And why has Africa largely resisted the global rise of populism?
In this episode of the Our Long Walk podcast, Jonathan Schoots and I sit down with Elias Papaioannou, academic director of the Wheeler Institute for Business and Development and professor of economics at the London Business School. Elias is a leading researcher in international finance, political economy and economic history – especially of Africa. His work blends rich historical datasets with cutting-edge econometrics to reveal how institutions, geography, and social structures shape long-run development.
Some of Elias’s mentioned work:
Religion and educational mobility in Africa
The political economy of populism
The long-run effects of the scramble for Africa
Landmines and spatial development
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
For more information about the episode and to subscribe to Johan’s newsletter, visit ourlongwalk.com.
How far back should economic history go?
Most textbooks start with agriculture, trade, and the emergence of states. But what if we looked further – beyond written records, beyond cities, beyond even the first farms? What if the deepest economic lessons come not from the past few thousand years, but from the hundreds of thousands before them? For most of history, when things got bad, people ran. But with farming came rulers, taxation, and the first states – and suddenly, leaving wasn’t so easy. As Ola Olsson puts it, understanding why we stopped roaming is key to making sense of the world today.
In this episode of the Our Long Walk podcast, Johan Fourie and Jonathan Schoots interview Ola Olsson, professor of economics at the University of Gothenburg and author of Paleoeconomics: Climate Change and Economic Development in Prehistory.
Ola’s mentioned work:
Fiscal capacity in “post”-conflict states: Evidence from trade on Congo river
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
For more information about the episode and to subscribe to Johan’s newsletter, visit ourlongwalk.com. The full playlist of all Our Long Walk podcast songs is available here.
What shapes the decisions we make each day, from the seemingly trivial to the transformative? Why do trust, honour or zero-sum thinking persist in some societies but not others? How does a legacy of past events influence not just institutions but the very beliefs we carry and pass on? These questions form the heart of cultural economics, a field that reminds us why culture – often dismissed as too abstract – is central to understanding the world.
In this episode of Our Long Walk, Johan Fourie and Jonathan Schoots interview Nathan Nunn, professor at the Vancouver School of Economics and a leading thinker on cultural economics and economic history.
Nathan's mentioned work:
Transhumant Pastoralism, Climate Change, and Conflict in Africa
Zero-Sum Thinking and the Roots of U.S. Political Divides
The Slave Trade and the Origins of Mistrust in Africa
The Long-term Effects of Africa's Slave Trades
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
For more information about the episode and to subscribe to Johan’s newsletter, visit ourlongwalk.com.
What makes a city thrive in the Global South? Why do some cities build stronger connections between their citizens, social movements, and governments while others remain fragmented? Can the lessons from São Paulo help South Africa’s struggling urban centres? And what can a sociologist teach us about the future of African cities as urbanization accelerates?
In this episode of Our Long Walk, Johan Fourie and Jonathan Schoots speak with Benjamin Bradlow, assistant professor of sociology and international affairs at Princeton University. Ben’s work explores the complex relationships between urban governance, inequality, and democracy, with a comparative focus on São Paulo and Johannesburg. His latest book, Urban Power: Democracy and Inequality in São Paulo and Johannesburg, offers a powerful lens on how cities can transform – or fail to.
You can find the Suno-generated song inspired by Benjamin's work here, as well as the playlist of the songs featured on other episodes. Subscribe to Johan's newsletter here.
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
What does it mean for African economies to be dynamic? How did the Mineral Revolution reshape the continent's economic trajectories? Can Africa’s internal markets be the foundation for future prosperity? And, crucially, why should Africa chart its own development path, distinct from Asia’s?
In this episode of the Our Long Walk podcast, Johan Fourie and Jonathan Schoots discuss these and many more questions with Ewout Frankema, chair of Economic and Environmental History at Wageningen University in the Netherlands. Ewout is an economic historian who studies long-term economic development in Africa, Latin America, and Asia, focusing on the historical roots of global inequality.
Some of Ewout’s mentioned work:
The African Model: Asia’s path may not work, but there is an alternative
From the Great Divergence to South-South Divergence
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This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
What does it mean to say institutions are ‘inclusive’? What impact does coercive labour have on trust in society? Can technology disrupt entrenched gender inequalities in the workplace? And, crucially, why should policymakers in Washington care about Africa?
In this episode of the Our Long Walk podcast, Jonathan Schoots and Johan Fourie discuss these and many more questions with Belinda Archibong. Belinda is an Associate Professor at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) and a Research Associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER). Her expertise lies in development economics, political economy and economic history, with a particular focus on Africa.
You can find Belinda's papers on gender inequality in online labor markets here and her paper on prison labour here. Subscribe to Johan's newsletter here.
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett.
Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
How do historical insights inform modern governance? Can traditional institutions be as effective as modern bureaucracies in driving development? What can Africa’s diverse historical pathways teach us about building effective policies today? In this episode, Jonathan Schoots and Johan Fourie sit down with James Robinson, an economist and political scientist from the University of Chicago, to discuss how economic history can shape the decisions that policymakers make today. We recorded the episode before the happy news arrived on Monday that James had been awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics, together with Daron Acemoglu and Simon Johnson.
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This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett.
Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
What role do African parliaments play in shaping governance? How do historical legacies affect contemporary political systems, and why does foreign aid often fail to build stronger local institutions? Johan Fourie and Jonathan Schoots discuss these questions - and many more - with Ken Opalo, Associate Professor at Georgetown University and author of the popular blog, An Africanist Perspective.
Several of Ken’s academic papers and blog posts are mentioned in this episode: a chapter on the political economy of aid in Africa, a paper on clientalism in Kenya, and blog posts on two ideas on how to invest some of Melinda Gates’ $12.5 billion?, the powerlessness of Leftist politics in African states, and the difference between academic research and policy research. His book, 'Legislative Development in Africa: Politics and Postcolonial Legacies', is available on Amazon. The Suno song we created about Ken’s research – Wealth in People – can be found here. Make sure to sign up for his blog.
Subscribe to Johan's newsletter here.
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett.
Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
Why do good intentions by international aid workers often lead to unintended negative outcomes? How should African leaders grapple with the tension between embracing Western ideas without being dominated by them? Hosts Johan Fourie and Jonathan Schoots discuss these – and many more – questions in the first podcast interview with Princeton author and historian Bronwen Everill. Bronwen is the author of Africonomics: A History of Western Ignorance (pre-order here).
Mentions:
Africa and the Early American Republic: Comments
Subscribe to Johan's newsletter here.
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
Get to know your hosts, economic historian Johan Fourie and historical sociologist Jonathan Schoots, as they introduce Our Long Walk, a new podcast exploring the past, present, and future of South Africa and Africa.
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions. Our producer is Vasti Calitz with editing done by Andri Burnett. Kelsey Lemon provided helpful research assistance.
Welcome to Our Long Walk, a podcast series about South Africa’s past, present, and future. In this series, economic historian Johan Fourie and historical sociologist Jonathan Schoots interview social science scholars who ask fascinating questions about our country and continent to distil those lessons into practical policy suggestions today.
Subscribe now so you don’t miss the first episode. Out on 3 September 2024 wherever you listen to your podcasts.
In the meantime, check out Johan's blog, ourlongwalk.com
This podcast is produced with the help of Voice Note Productions.
